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Visual Studio 2015 Can Target Linux; Android Apps Anywhere Chrome Can Run

Posted by timothy on from the then-you-win-maybe dept.

jones_supa writes Phoronix has noticed that the Visual Studio 2015 product page mentions that the new IDE can target Linux out of the box. Specifically the page says "Build for iOS, Android, Windows devices, Windows Server or Linux". What this actually means is not completely certain at this point, but it certainly laces nicely with the company opening up the .NET Framework. And speaking of cross-platform software: new submitter mccrew writes Google has released a tool that lets Android apps run on any machine that can run its Chrome browser. Called Arc Welder, the tool acts as a wrapper around Android apps so they can run on Windows, OS X and Linux machines. The software expands the places that Android apps can run and might make it easier for developers to get code working on different machines.

53 of 96 comments (clear)

  1. Apache Cordova by Super+Mario+Troll · · Score: 1

    It's using this: http://cordova.apache.org/ (via https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-...

    --

    Goat: It's what's for dinner!

    1. Re:Apache Cordova by Hallow · · Score: 1

      Yep. It's cordova - which means web apps (technically hybrid since you can bridge to native functionality). I haven't used a single cordova/phonegap app that I've liked, and I actively look to avoid them. It's generally pretty easy to tell. I'm sure this is just ticking a box for marketing, nobody building anything remotely serious will even consider this.

  2. Java killer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Looks like C# is closing in for the kill. I've read that a starter version Xamarin/mono is going to be integrated into VS.

    1. Re:Java killer by msobkow · · Score: 3, Funny

      *LOL* And this is the year of the Linux desktop, too, right?

      There is a lot more holding up C# domination of the world than Java. Like itself.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    2. Re:Java killer by bondsbw · · Score: 1

      Yep, I'd say that Java isn't holding up C# at all.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    3. Re:Java killer by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'll give my opinion of why it won't, and it is the mindset between the C# community and the Java community, and how they differ.

      In the C# world, it's like the great masters on high give us features and we use them. This is an example of that attitude (and it's actually rather poetic, if not sickening).

      In the Java world, a new framework comes along when someone says, "we have a problem to solve, what is the best way to solve it?" They are there, working in the trenches, trying to solve the problem themselves. Like Maven.....some guy had problems with builds and said, "there must be a better way." And he built that way. In Java there are often multiple competing solutions to the problem, and eventually one is voted as the best.

      So it's the cathedral vs the bazaar. The cathedral is fine, don't get me wrong, they work hard at it; but it has the feel of product managers, feature checklists, and dispassionate programmers.

      The passionate programmers create a better product, and they're in Java world. (Note: I don't even particularly like Java, I just recognize there are differences between the Java and C# ecosystems).

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:Java killer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Voted the best? And then the rest disappear? Because I'd expect that there's 9 competing ways of doing almost the same thing, sometimes within the same project, with breaking changes between versions. Maven is a pretty terrible example, too... Nuget is a thing. Seems like every platform has a similar package manager concept, and it's generally not owned by whoever is behind the platform.

    5. Re:Java killer by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Nuget is a thing.

      Yes, I know.....and another word I would use to describe that thing is a 'joke.' Seriously, how many times has Maven corrupted your project files? This is actually a problem with Nuget.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re:Java killer by InsectOverlord · · Score: 2

      I'd argue that both C# and VB.net are "copies" of Borland Delphi, not of Java - not surprising, considering .NET was created by the people who made Delphi (C# inevitably looks like Java, being C-based). This is very obvious particularly in VB.net, which borrows quite a few keywords from Delphi.

    7. Re:Java killer by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      That's an interesting idea. I have no way to judge, since I've never used Delphi. C# feels a lot like Java to me though......like I can go back and forth between the two with almost no cognitive issues, the biggest trouble I have is remembering whether to capitalize my method names.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    8. Re:Java killer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Sorry, but no. Any intellectually honest developer has to admit that Visual Studio is miles ahead of almost any other IDE. Don't be another developer who, for religious reasons, claims Eclipse is better because "it has this one very specialized feature than isn't applicable to 95% of the users, but I cite as a reason because it's one of the few things it does that visual studio doesn't". Even then, 99% of the time some Eclipse zealot says VS can't do something, it's because they are what I would call amateur users...right and menu clicking away looking for things.

      Sorry..I have used them both consistently and probably 50/50 for the last 8 years or so, and there is question in any objective developers mind which is better. Move your religious war elsewhere, fanboy....

    9. Re:Java killer by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 1

      I used Visual Studio every day at work. It has a good feature set, but it is notoriously unreliable, and every new release comes with more bugs than fixes. Visual Studio 2013 for example forgets to perform the post-build registration step in 64bit projects, requiring a manual post-build step. It's the year 2015, and the IDE still regularly hangs for seconds at a time when I simply type in the text editor. The debugging engine regularly gets confused, and I have to close all instances of devenv and kill mspdbsrv to get it to respect breakpoints again. I get an average of one day between IDE crashes (even though VS is written in .NET, it still suffers from frequent access violation [0xC0000005] crashes). When 2010 and 2013 are installed side by side, 2010 misbehaves and believes the project needs a full rebuild every time it is run when the project uses IDL files.

      I've used Eclipse, and while I don't like the UI or feature set, it has at least been more stable during the times I've used it.

    10. Re:Java killer by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sorry, but no. Any intellectually honest developer has to admit that Visual Studio is miles ahead of almost any other IDE.

      Any 'intellectually honest developer' will notice you didn't mention a single concrete idea in your post. Furthermore, if you don't buy the resharper plugin, visual studio is missing a lot of stuff Eclipse would give for free. And it must be useful stuff, otherwise people wouldn't buy the resharper plugin.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    11. Re:Java killer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Okay ... and I've moved to VS 2013 for about a year now, and haven't had any issues.

      Perhaps your installation is corrupt ...

    12. Re:Java killer by linuxrocks123 · · Score: 1

      Translation: I personally like Visual Studio better, probably because I used it first and got used to it, and I am unable to tell the difference between my personal preferences and an objective comparison of the capabilities of different applications.

      I will now respond to the person who replied to me with a cherry-picked example of some random thing of trivial importance that I know how to do in Visual Studio and not in Eclipse.

      --
      vi ~/.emacs # I'm probably going to Hell for this.
    13. Re:Java killer by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      In the C# world, it's like the great masters on high give us features and we use them. This is an example of that attitude (and it's actually rather poetic, if not sickening).

      Regarding that video, /.ers might recogize the name of the speaker: Jon Skeet.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    14. Re:Java killer by pagebt · · Score: 2

      This. MIcrosoft was slapped on the wrist for attempting to extend J++ and still call it JAVA. Microsoft went dark for about 2 years and out popped .net

    15. Re: Java killer by cuby · · Score: 1

      You are a bit of a fanboy yourself. You should have compared Visual Studio with IntelliJ Idea instead of Eclipse. I have the upmost respect for Eclipse, by the way.

      --
      Math is beautiful... e^(pi*i)+1=0
    16. Re:Java killer by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I will now respond to the person who replied to me with a cherry-picked example of some random thing of trivial importance that I know how to do in Visual Studio and not in Eclipse.

      He couldn't even find a cherry-picked example! I don't think the guy you responded to knows what he's talking about.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    17. Re:Java killer by blackpaw · · Score: 1

      I've used C# Java and Delphi extensively for years now, I'd say C# the language, bears a lot more similarities to Java than Delphi.

    18. Re:Java killer by Ice+Station+Zebra · · Score: 1

      First, when you say shit like "intellectually honest developer" you are committing an Ad Hominem logical fallacy in your argument, therefore making your argument invalid.

      Now, why do I think VS is a hot mess? Stuff like this:

      https://social.msdn.microsoft....

      When the features of your IDE is driven by the bean counters, then it is time to switch.

    19. Re: Java killer by Ice+Station+Zebra · · Score: 1

      I tried IntellJ, it was ok, but I found that I was better off using Eclipse and spending the money on beer.

  3. Apache Cordova by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Informative

    All of the CTP and preview releases have been shipping with Apache Cordova and an Android build target using mono for the underlying .Net implementation. Been like this for the past several months, targetting Android has been well known amongst .Net developers following VS2015.

  4. Probably Xamarin by StikyPad · · Score: 1

    That's how they got cross platform for iOS and Android.

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    https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
    1. Re:Probably Xamarin by CastrTroy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think it will be helpful to everybody if they can get .Net code to compile for iOS, Android, Windows, and Linux. It will make cross platform development so much easier. It will probably help out to get more stuff on the Windows App store as well. Just being able to do iOS and Android in the same language will be a huge help to mobile developers. And if it takes minimal effort to also get the app to working on Windows Phone and Windows app store, then I could see a lot of developers switching to doing things this way.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    2. Re:Probably Xamarin by AuMatar · · Score: 2

      People who want cross-platform on iOS and Android have had it since day 1. Write your logic in C or C++. Its how cross-platform has been done for decades. Then write a wrapper in whatever language the platform uses for the UI.

      If your complaint is that you want cross-platform Ui code as well- no you really don't. The two platforms are so different that you'll never get an app with a good look and field without writing 2 separate UIs. Unless you want to release an Android like UI for Apple (which will get hatred from users) or an iOS like UI for Android (which will get hatred from users).

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    3. Re:Probably Xamarin by LateArthurDent · · Score: 1

      That's how they got cross platform for iOS and Android.

      Actually, they've been pushing Cordova. Xamarin is an option, but the free starter edition that will work with the Community Edition of visual studio still looks far too limited for seriously development, while the business edition is unreasonably expensive.

      The visual studio 2015 preview includes cordova projects targeting android, though.

    4. Re:Probably Xamarin by LateArthurDent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People who want cross-platform on iOS and Android have had it since day 1. Write your logic in C or C++. Its how cross-platform has been done for decades. Then write a wrapper in whatever language the platform uses for the UI.

      The problem is that most phone applications are typically 95%+ UI code. If you do that, you're not exactly going to save much time and effort.

    5. Re:Probably Xamarin by firewrought · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Write your logic in C or C++. Its how cross-platform has been done for decades.

      Yep... just like people keep talking about this "car" gizmo when we've had decent horse-and-buggy technology for centuries! I don't understand why anybody would want to cross the country in this proprietary Ford nonsense when--with just a little knowledge of horsemanship, veterinary science, metal-working, carpentry, wilderness survival, food preservation, hunting, and gunsmithing--they could take the slow, dangerous, proven approach!

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    6. Re:Probably Xamarin by Daniel+Hoffmann · · Score: 2

      It is not just a "wrapper for the UI code" there is a shitton of stuff, just for starters there are all the sensors (gyroscope, gps, camera), permission handling, packaging the app, interaction between apps, background services and a lot more stuff that differs from one platform to the next.

      Yes you can share much of your application logic between each platform using C/C++, but:
      1) You need to write it in C/C++
      2) If your app mostly just talks to a server there is not much application logic in the mobile device, so most of your code will not be portable at all.

      There is a reason mostly only games share significant codebases between each platform. Their application logic is already usually written in C++ and they don't often have to deal with the stuff I mentioned before.

    7. Re:Probably Xamarin by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 2

      I think you missed the point. People want cross-platform GUIs, where the compiler/assembler/linker will automatically reshape the UI to fit the target device's HIG. More like saying "we've been using the internal combustion engine for decades in cars and motorcycles. If you want to increase horsepower, improve the fuel injection that's used in both." If someone comes up with an electric engine replacement, that's still not going to make a new car dashboard suddenly make sense on a kawasaki.

      People have been walking using shoes for decades. Neither a horse nor a car helps you walk better; they just enable you to do less of it, in different ways.

    8. Re:Probably Xamarin by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The reality is, Microsoft will already be entering a crowded space, including:

      Phonegap
      Appcelerator
      Sencha
      QT
      Unity

      If Microsoft wants to compete here, they need more than just a free cross-platform tool. They need to demonstrate that their tool is worth using, more than all the others.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    9. Re:Probably Xamarin by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      "And because these JavaScript APIs"... does that mean that the idiotic and uninformative anonymous coward with the initial reply was correct?

      If so, these two things do not go together. And I need to nerd rage on social.msdn.microsoft.com instead of here.

      • C#, Visual Basic, F#, C++, Python, Node.js and HTML/JavaScript
      • Build for iOS, Android, Windows devices, Windows Server or Linux
    10. Re:Probably Xamarin by jmac_the_man · · Score: 1

      People who want cross-platform on iOS and Android have had it since day 1. Write your logic in C or C++. Its how cross-platform has been done for decades. Then write a wrapper in whatever language the platform uses for the UI.

      Are we allowed to use someone else's wrapper? Because that's all* Xamarin is.

      *There are more differences between alternate platforms than just the UI. (For example, the sensors you have available are different on iOS and on Android. You also get access to an SD card on Android sometimes.) Xamarin abstracts this stuff too, by the way.

    11. Re:Probably Xamarin by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It's more like coming in and using concrete for a hang glider (has been done) instead of making a passenger airliner out of lightweight metals and carbon reinforced plastic. You get a result from the non-traditional approach but it fails to perform as well as using methods that have long proved their worth.
      So maybe this stuff will measure up later but it's still got a bit of proving itself to do before it's a mainstream option.

    12. Re:Probably Xamarin by Dadoo · · Score: 1

      I think it will be helpful to everybody if they can get .Net code to compile for iOS, Android, Windows, and Linux. It will make cross platform development so much easier.

      Except that it'll only be cross-platform for as long as Microsoft wants it to be. What will happen to non-Microsoft platforms if, say five years from now, they decide to say, "Sorry, we're done supporting other platforms." Will software companies that have been using VS all that time re-write their (possibly entire) code base in another language that's actually cross-platform? Not likely.

      This is just another round of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.

      --
      Sit, Ubuntu, sit. Good dog.
  5. Android Apps Anywhere Chrome Can Run by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Did Yoda create the headline?

  6. Mod parent up by dcooper_db9 · · Score: 1

    Seriously. Everyone is reading this as Visual Studio can target Android.

    --
    I do not block ads. I do block third party scripts.
  7. Re:Oh, Phoronix by Nemyst · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Or perhaps it's rather a reading comprehension failure on your part. Visual Studio 2013 has a Community edition, but this is talking about 2015, which isn't out yet.

  8. Re:Delphi "beat 'em to the punch" long ago by phantomfive · · Score: 2

    Somehow it's hard to take Delphi seriously......

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  9. Read the small print by folderol · · Score: 1

    There is always a lock-in there.

  10. Re:Delphi "beat 'em to the punch" long ago by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

    Somehow it's hard to take Delphi seriously......

    ...I always thought that Oracle should have bought Borland instead of Sun....

  11. Surely you must be joking. by ARos · · Score: 1

    I'm not and stop calling me Shirley. The day I use Visual Studio to code anything for use on Linux is the day MSFT skypes me a video of their holding my parents hostage.

  12. Why "target"? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Can someone tell me why "target" is used in this case? I understand that it means you can develop for that platform, but I'm unfamiliar with the etymology behind the term.

    Is it commonly used in this context? Is "target" a term of art for IDEs?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Why "target"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The word "target" in this context refers to the runtime operating environment for which the executable is being built. This is common usage for compilers, which may be able to "target" multiple processors, or variants on architecture.

    2. Re:Why "target"? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Thank you.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  13. Re:Delphi "beat 'em to the punch" long ago by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Really? Do they go together well?

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  14. Re:It means... by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

    For iOS, supporting PhoneGap and random WebKit for Linux makes sense.

    With open sourcing of the .NET framework, Linux C# makes sense.

    I'm not sure how the Javaness of Android might be tamed, other than processing .NET bytecode to Java bytecode.

    I'm not sure how C++ would work. Considering Corona uses Lua to Objective-C, and Marmalade is kind of an anything goes, there are possibilities way beyond an uninformed anonymous coward.

  15. Re:It means... by epyT-R · · Score: 2

    what a mishmash of broken garbage these stacks are now.. no wonder nothing's secure and simple program logic that was fine with 66mhz and half a meg of ram now needs a 3ghz cpu and 2gb to run acceptably.

    None of that makes sense if performance is of any concern (it should be), along with seamless integration into the environment.

  16. They only just noticed? by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 1

    So Phoronix has only just noticed this? This was discussed on Slashdot five months ago.

  17. Re:I've built enterprise class info. systems w/ it by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Wow, you wrote an actual serious post, not an advertisement.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  18. Cordova and Xamarin by blackpaw · · Score: 1

    I'm installing VS 2015 CTP as I type, the cross platform mobile options in the installer are Apache Cordova *and* Xamarin. It shall be interesting to see how it works out in practice.

  19. C++ on Linux by rasharm_ · · Score: 1

    I am always intrigued about how many people actually do any kind of C++ development for Linux. It seems to me that geeky types working on Linux terminals are exactly the kind of people who would derive pleasure from diving into the complexity of C++ language and systems programming. I wonder how they feel about their development experience on Linux as compared to what Visual Studio can afford for Windows.