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Powdered Alcohol Banned In Six States
HughPickens.com writes Rachel Abrams reports at the NYT that six states have passed legislation to ban Palcohol, a freeze-dried, powdered alcohol developed by Mark Phillips who he says was inspired by a love of hiking but a distaste for carrying bottles of adult beverages uphill. "When I hike, kayak, backpack or whatever, I like to have a drink when I reach my destination. And carrying liquid alcohol and mixers to make a margarita for instance was totally impractical," says Phillips, who hopes to have Palcohol on store shelves by the summer. One packet of Palcohol equals one shot with each packet weighing 1 ounce and turning into liquid when mixed with 6 ounces of water. Phillips has vigorously defended his product, called Palcohol, saying it is no more dangerous than the liquid version sold in liquor stores and plans to release five flavors: vodka, rum, cosmopolitan, powderita (which is like a margarita) and lemon drop.
Critics are concerned people may try to snort the powder or mix it with alcohol to make it even stronger or spike a drink. "It's very easy to put a couple packets into a glass and have super-concentrated alcohol," says Frank Lovecchio. Amy George, a spokeswoman for Mothers Against Drunk Driving, said MADD did not typically take a stand on the dangers of specific alcohol products, but MADD is concerned about the colorful or playful packaging of such products that can sometimes appeal to children. Phillips dismisses concerns saying that they don't make sense if you think it through. "People unfortunately use alcohol irresponsibly. But I don't see any movement to ban liquid alcohol. You don't ban something because a few irresponsible people use it improperly," says Phillips. "They can snort black pepper. Do you ban black pepper?"
Critics are concerned people may try to snort the powder or mix it with alcohol to make it even stronger or spike a drink. "It's very easy to put a couple packets into a glass and have super-concentrated alcohol," says Frank Lovecchio. Amy George, a spokeswoman for Mothers Against Drunk Driving, said MADD did not typically take a stand on the dangers of specific alcohol products, but MADD is concerned about the colorful or playful packaging of such products that can sometimes appeal to children. Phillips dismisses concerns saying that they don't make sense if you think it through. "People unfortunately use alcohol irresponsibly. But I don't see any movement to ban liquid alcohol. You don't ban something because a few irresponsible people use it improperly," says Phillips. "They can snort black pepper. Do you ban black pepper?"
The states are: Alaska, Louisiana, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont and Virginia
Not sure why this couldn't be in the summary.
You cannot "freeze dry" alcohol because alcohol is a pure liquid at room temperature and to make it solid you would need a temperature of -78C which is a little on the cold side for anyone not Canadian. Powdered alcohol is actually alcohol absorbed by something else as desribed here and if you want to make it yourself the instructions are here... just don't do this if you happen to live somewhere where you are now not allowed to do it anymore!
It's not actually a bad idea. I've taken alcohol backpacking before, but it's as he mentions, it's somewhat impractical, esp. stopping links and carrying around big containers that will average being half empty, which you can't refill with their target contents on the way like you can with water bottles. And in my experience it usually leaks sooner or later. And since it only makes sense to carry the most concentrated stuff you can buy...yeah.
Concentrated alcohol is great stuff to be with - and not just for "getting drunk in the woods". Or even the social aspect - being out in the middle of nowhere with alcohol and meeting up with other travelers can make you pretty popular ;) But it's also 7 calories per gram - only fat is higher, at 9, while carbs and proteins are 4, so it's a nice weight ratio, and it never spoils. It doubles as a disinfectant, both for first aid, and for water. And it can be burned as a stove fuel.
That said, I don't know how many of the benefits would carry over to this powdered variety. The sorbent is going to significantly reduce weight per calorie, you probably can no longer burn it as stove fuel at any dilution, etc.
Trump's plan to get rid of Mueller appears to be 'be so guilty of so many things that Mueller works himself to death.'
If they wanna ban it, let 'em
You can make it yourself
People intent on banning this stuff have forgotten one caveat: it tastes fairly bad, even when you pollute it with sugar.
A good bottle of whiskey/rum/vodka actually follow a process that gives them a refined and palatable flavor.
Grain in any form, diluted or not, just tastes like rubbing alcohol every time.
Although I hike and enjoy some alcohol after a climb, I will still carry a flask and make myself joyful the old fashioned and refreshing way.
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
Snort? The most effective way to get your kick is to do your black pepper in enema or rectal suppository form.
Yes, kids, DO try this at home!
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I wonder how much of this objection has nothing to do with the vasty overstated risks but instead is of a commercial nature. Alcoholic beverages are extremely expensive in a lot of places (stadiums, bars, restaurants, events) and sneaking your own in is inconvenient or impossible.
I woner if the real opponents of this aren't people who make money charging $10 for cocktails to captive audiences. How much money do they stand to lose when people start bringing a half-dozen packets to the big game?
How is the drinking control regime threatened when you can't restrict alcohol because of its bulk and liquid nature?
Some idiots will no doubt overconsume it, but they are probably the same idiots that do it now.
Anyone that thinks this stuff makes any sense at all is merely ignorant.
Here is the thing, alcohol is a liquid. The most compact state for alcohol to be in is a liquid. The only way to have powdered alcohol without adding a lot of filler to it that will make it take up MORE space and more weight would be to freeze it and then smash up the frozen alcohol into a powder and then keep that at freezing temperatures.
Sound practical? Me neither.
What they're obviously doing is adding a chemical, probably a sugar of some description, and allowing that substance to absorb the alcohol.
while you CAN do that, why would you want to do that? It will take up MORE space and weigh MORE per unit of weight or volume.
So what the fuck is the point? People keep talking about powdered alcohol like people are going to be able to compress 2 liter vodka bottles into little pouches where you just add water and you get a strong alcoholic drink.
You won't though... unless you have something like 10 liters of powder to dissolve in the water.
the amount of alcohol you'll actually be able to store in any sugar crystal going to be miniscule. And sugar molecules are often quite large... so you're talking about a lot of mass invested into containing a very small amount of alcohol. Why?
Get yourself some 200 proof booze, put it in a flask, and if you want drink, then mix that with some amount of water because you really don't want to drink 200 proof booze straight unless you're completely crazy.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Perhaps you didn't see the states involved:
Alaska, Louisiana, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont and Virginia
Only ONE of those states "might" be considered anything "lefty" The other 5 are rather conservative. So if anything it is "righty-totalitarian".
a thermos full of everclear - cooks , cleans, disinfects, and gets you fucked up how many other things in your pack have 4+ uses?
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
And trying to impose ban on everything they don't like is against the Constitution.
Well, not this one.
21st Amendment, Section 2:
"Section 2. The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited."
Pretty much implicitly states that States can have laws regarding intoxicating liquors. Which this clearly is, and no, you can't wank around it by claiming it is merely a powder.
Two thermoses of Everclear!
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Talk with them. It's YOUR kids. Don't put the burden of raising your kids on society!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You can't protect stupid people from acting stupid.
In fact, want to make the world a better place? pass laws that make it impossible for someone stupid, that did something stupid, from using the legal system to sue anyone for their act of stupid.
I personally wish we allowed more of the stupid people to kill themselves, it would help the humanity gene pool immensely.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Maybe 'cause the only ones who feel anything but "meh" about it is the inventor and overprotective soccer moms?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
MADD is the modern day Women's Christian Temperance Union: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W...
Those are the folks who brought Prohibition to the US, with disastrous consequences. They are just flexing their muscles a bit. After they successful ban powdered alcohol everywhere, they will start going after other fringe alcohol products, like Jello-shots, alco-pops or whatever those damn kids on my lawn are drinking these days.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
This has no advantages. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c0QLaVLhTs
A dishwasher isn't about cleaning the dishes. It's about one less source of arguments over who has to do them. From that perspective, they're invaluable for improving domestic relations.
It's getting hard to say with prohibition groups these days (MADD is simply a "ban all alcohol" group). Such groups used to find common cause with the right, and perhaps still do, but that spirit is aging out of the right with the Boomers, and increasingly it's the left on a jihad to "control all the things!" People Against Fun are increasing flipping left now. From banning video games to banning frat parties, it's a left thing now, and the "yes means yes" laws are one step away from outlawing premarital sex (and the right has been laughing quietly at that irony).
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
if you want to carry this, you end up carrying more weight. you need to carry this, the binder and water too. freeze dried is sort of a lie, that's not really what was done to it.
just carrying margarita mixer powder and vodka would get you easier and with less to carry.
basically the only advantage to palcohol is potentially eating it, because there is no weight saving. it's not like pure spirits get any lighter, they're already pure(everclear). vodka is pure with water and the water you need to carry to hiking probably anyways.
just take a plastic bottle of vodka. or a baggie of vodka.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Vodka is just pure alcohol with pure water.
Making whiskey is art, making vodka is science. Science scales, art doesn't. That is why Vodka just doesn't get better after about $12/750. If you ever spent $50 on a bottle of Vodka (and it didn't get you laid) you are a chump.
Just carry 190 proof and thin it down to Vodka when you get where you are going. Assuming you carry a water filter. If you are carrying in all your water then don't bother, just carry 80 proof.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Do you wash your laundry by hand too?
Raise and hand pluck your own chickens?
What's the difference?
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
First time I've seen someone post a "pro-tip" that was factual. As a young enthusiastic engineer, I always wanted to design cool stuff...better, faster, cheaper. Later in life, I was at a project leadership seminar for engineers where we were briefed by contracts people. I learned the acronym POET, and how it affects your odds of winning a contract. Hint: Tech is last for a reason.
Someone did a better job of describing it here than I can...
http://blog.kickin-the-darknes...
Just another day in Paradise
Package 80 proof in juice box bags. Sell it at outdoor supply stores. Not your responsibility if people smuggle it into games/movies/the Opera/schools.
I knew kids who injected Vodka into oranges to eat at lunch. Couldn't really get a buzz that way. More about getting away with something.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
If only there was some way to get water out in nature....
You can measure how authoritarian a government is by the % of GDP they spend/waste. Don't listen to what they say, watch what they do.
Also gun control proves you wrong on the face of your claim.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
source
100g of powder with 25cl (250ml) of water gives you 4.8%. i.e.: the content of a small can of a rather weak beer (by European standard).
Which is 12ml of pure ethanol (less than a 2cl shot). Which weights ~10g. So you need to transport a power 10x as heavy as the ethanol it self. It one of the least efficient form for transporting ethanol. And is therefore COMPLETELY STUPID.
You're better off transporting a small flask vial of pure ethanol. For reference to another item that you would probably be carrying in your backpack: an AA battery is ~8cm^3, so you need the same volume as about 1 and a half battery of pure ethanol to mix your weak-beer-like beverage small can. So the actual volume is negligible.
Whereas if you pack them with ~90mg of extra powdered sugar cyclic polymer, you'll probably need a space around roughly ~130cm^3 - that's about the volume of 1 and half deck of cards that you need to transport as extra sugar in addition to the ethanol itself, just for the small advantage to keep the ethanol trapped in a powder instead of carrying it in a small plastic liquid container.
(it's an estimation. I don't know the exact density of the specific types of powdered cycle of sugars used in palcohol, I'm doing a rough estimation using starch as a starting point).
You can't beat pure ethanol. It's a liquid. That's as densely as you can pack it at room temperature.
That's the form of pure alcohol, once you remove all the water out of it. Dried alcohol isn't a powder. It's still a liquid (just a liquid that contains no molecule of water, only ethanol). It's not like for example salt nor sugar (salt or sugar diluted in water is a liquid. Dry it, remove all the water and you get powder of NaCl or of glucose. Or crystals of them if you do the drying correctly).
Palcohol is, basically, adding huge sugar cyclic polymer to trap it into a powder. It's a huge waste of space. It's not *concentrated* alcohol (as, I presume, all the people who buy into these stupidity are thinking - by analogy of sugar or salt). It's alcohol cut with heavy space consuming sugar.
The only thing is that, getting food-grade ethanol (that is pure ethanol, not degraded ethanol) at pure concentration without a drop of water inside is heavily regulated in most countries (to avoid that people use it to make their own housemade liquor and sell these without a proper license).
The sugar-ethanol mix isn't (well in some countries. Sugar and ethanol happens to be regulated in some countries due to alcopops.) so probably some people think it's a handy way to transport alcool without needing to get the necessary license / paper work for pure ethanol ("I want to transport my booze in space convenient matter, not start a liquor factory! The paper work is over kill !") The problem is that even then, packing a water-diluted ethanol solution (strong vodka, etc.) is still more space efficient than the powdered sugar.
As a way to pack alcohol, this poweder is asinine.
As a novelty item, with the funnily simple factor ("Powdered cocktail! Just add water and instant* mojitos!!! [*- with a much weaker alcohol content than an actual mojito]") yup, maybe. (Works, because most of the other ingredients *can* be packed as solids/powder, and they can complex a bit of ethanol, specially the sugars).
But it's nothing more than an adult themed cousin of Sherbet-powder to be drank after adding water.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
1. Alcohol leaks easier than water. At least that's been my experience with it.
2. Flexible water bottles are not rated for everclear. Even if it didn't physically and visibly dissolve the seals in front of you, I'd still have concerns over it leaching chemicals out of the plastic. Moreso than with a rigid bottle, as flexible plastics generally contain plasticizers, many of which have been linked to a variety of health issues. Some flexible water containers are made of PVC, which has very bad ethanol compatibility, it embrittles it.
3. Actually, if I were to do it again, I actually would choose the liquor store bottle. At least you're guaranteed proper chemical compatibility and a cap designed not to leak when containing alcohol.
Alcohol is not water. Don't expect it to behave like it.
Trump's plan to get rid of Mueller appears to be 'be so guilty of so many things that Mueller works himself to death.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lover_Come_Back_%281961_film%29
Alcoholic candy. (Spoiler alert?) And their version was going to be banned as well.
It's pretty good if you like screwball comedies.
I really don't understand why "powdered alcohol" is a better solution than carrying grain alcohol. "Powdered alcohol" isn't alcohol somehow transformed into a powder, but ordinary liquid alcohol absorbed/encapsulated in a carrier powder. So you don't save weight over the equivalent amount of Everclear, you add it.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
It's about one less source of arguments over who has to do them
Nope your wrong, they argue over who has to put them away lol Having a dishwasher just creates different types of arguments.
Jack of all trades,master of none
but since when does anyone measure density in mass/length units?
That's clear evidence of one dimensional thinking. ;-)
If you want to recreate an American beer, yes.
Trump's plan to get rid of Mueller appears to be 'be so guilty of so many things that Mueller works himself to death.'
First off, what the heck is going wrong in your life that makes you feel the need to tell strangers "Suck it" and "you alcoholiic piece of shit" when talking about plastics? Even without knowing what it is, I honestly feel sorry and am worried for you.
Secondly, we're not talking about plastic milk jugs. You mentioned camelback water pouches. They're quite clearly not the same thing - one is highly rigid, the other is highly flexible. Camelback water pouches are not all made the same. Search on the net and you'll find PVC, polyurethane, and polyethylene-with-plasiticizers camelbacks - on the ones that say what they're made out of. Most don't.
I just pulled out my camelback to see what type of plastic it's made out of. It's not labeled. But there are clearly at least three different plastics (body, cap, tube) involved - they look and feel different in many regards.
It's just a very bad idea to take a camelback and fill it with a potentially corrosive liquid that it's not rated to handle, as you suggested. Of course there exist plastics that tolerate pure ethanol. Your best bet to avoid dissolution, leaching, and leaks would be precisely what I said in #3: the bottle that the alcohol itself came in (despite the fact that it's bulky and not flexible). I definitely would not advise using a camelback as you suggested.
Of course, even on that downside, while alcohol bottles are designed to handle the potentially corrosive properties of ethanol, they're not designed to handle the rigors of backpacking. I think it most cases one would survive okay, but backpacking can be pretty hard on one's supplies.
Beyond all this, though, I must stress... get some sleep, or take care of whatever else is going wrong over there. I hope you're okay...
Trump's plan to get rid of Mueller appears to be 'be so guilty of so many things that Mueller works himself to death.'
You don't ban something because a few irresponsible people use it improperly," says Phillips. "They can snort black pepper. Do you ban black pepper?"
Actually we ban every single psychologically active substance *except* alcohol and tobacco for precisely that reason, those two being the lucky winners because historically the few irresponsible ones misusing other things were typically not the white male property owners responsible for determining whose favorite substance was allowed.
You do realize that American beer doesn't begin and end with Budweiser and Coors, right? There are about a dozen different microbreweries within a half hour of my house. The same story is repeated all across the United States. Oh, and guess what? Budweiser and Coors aren't even American owned these days. The largest American brewery left is probably Sam Adams and they have a fairly good selection of brews.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
And in my experience it usually leaks sooner or later.
If only someone could invent an easy to carry container that was purpose designed to transport ethanol on one's person. :)
Of course, if you're going for ease of carrying while hiking there are much better bets than booze. Of course, cannabis has one purpose; ethanol has first aid value and can be used for fuel if the need arises.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Depends. HDPE plastic is okay at the very least. There might be some others.
If you're determined to be obnoxious on the subject, get a flask. I assume a flask can handle high proof alcohol and that was the traditional method for alcoholics to take their hooch with them on the go. I don't see why that doesn't still work.
Also, this just has to be passed around so everyone gets this:
""But a packet of Palcohol is much harder to conceal" than liquid alcohol, the company making Palcohol says on its website. A packet of the substance measures 4 inches by 6 inches (10.2 centimeters by 15.2 cm), which is five times bigger than a 50-milliliter (1.7 ounces) bottle of liquid alcohol. "Alcohol in any format is subject to abuse if someone is determined to do so," the website says.""
I never claimed my posts were all perfect, but most of them are good, actually. And anyone that challenges one of my posts specifically and says SPECIFICALLY what they thought was wrong about it is likely as not to be proven wrong themselves.
I'm not stupid, sport. You might not like some of my views but those are what grown ups call "opinions" and just because mine conflict with yours doesn't mean I'm stupid or ignorant or unthoughtful. I'm just different. And not in a bad way.
We can be respectful of each other's distinctions or you can challenge me to rip your rhetorical balls out through your breathing hole... Either way. I'm game.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
So... how good is snorting black pepper anyway? I might give that a go tonight.
Back in the 80's, MADD was formed with the purpose of blackmailing all the states into banning alchohol sales to anyone under 21. This of course includes a good 3 years of actual voters, but fuck them, there are more over 21 than under, so we can just outvote them! Yes folks, a portion of the electorate can gang up on another portion and take their rights away. MADD has shown us the way. They accomplished this by getting Congress to threaten to take away their highway funds unless they complied. (BTW: Extra credit goes to Louisiana here for being about the last state to give in).
They got to my state just at the perfect time that the "grandfathering" of the new law assured people 1 year older than me could legally drink for 3 years while I could not. I didn't even like alcohol, but this completely pissed me off. 30 years later, and I still hold a grudge. I hate MADD with the heat of 1000 suns. Anything they are against, I'm automatically for. In 30 years, that rule has held me in good stead.