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Ten US Senators Seek Investigation Into the Replacement of US Tech Workers

dcblogs notes this story about a bipartisan group of U.S. senators that has asked for an investigation into whether companies are firing American workers and replacing them with foreign workers for the sake of cutting costs. "Ten U.S. senators, representing the political spectrum, are seeking a federal investigation into displacement of IT workers by H-1B-using contractors. They are asking the U.S. Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security and the Labor Department to investigate the use of the H-1B program "to replace large numbers of American workers" at Southern California Edison (SCE) and other employers. The letter to Attorney General Eric Holder and the secretaries of the two other departments, was signed by U.S. Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which has oversight over the Justice Department. The other signers are Sens. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.), a longtime ally of Grassley on H-1B issues; Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), David Vitter (R-La.), Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), Bill Cassidy (R-La.), Bernard Sanders (I-Vt.), James Inhofe (R-Okla.). Neither California senator signed on. "Southern California Edison ought to be the tipping point that finally compels Washington to take needed actions to protect American workers," Sessions said. Five hundred IT workers at SCE were cut, and many had to train their replacements."

38 of 407 comments (clear)

  1. And it's not even an election year by plopez · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They could be serious.

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    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:And it's not even an election year by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      if they would only realize that by making US employment of americans stronger, we will be able to AFFORD to buy the toys that our very companies are making (toys being used in the very general sense).

      what will happen to all those who came or want to come to the US? well, this will force their own countries to deal with their own problems instead of the 'I cant fix my own country, so I'll just go to the US, instead' mentality. if mobility was a bit more limited, people in their own countries would have to deal with and fix their own problems. that's a win/win for everyone.

      by allowing cheap labor to displace US workers, its lose/lose. nothing in india (and we all know, india is the #1 source of h1b tech workers) will get better if their 'top talent' all moves here for jobs; and the US struggles to keep its own people employed.

      we have let the ceo's ruin our economy for decades! their selfishness has stunted the entire US economy for all but the one percenters.

      then again, congress is all about the one percenters and so, expecting a fix from those who can't even SEE the problem is a bit overly optimistic.

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    2. Re:And it's not even an election year by kheldan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This. This times ONE MILLION. Why are we not investing in the education of Americans so they can be the 'replacement workers'? Why are we not promoting our own population rather than bringing in foreigners who will likely send all that money overseas? What the actual fuck? Are they TRYING to destroy the country!?

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    3. Re:And it's not even an election year by Dracos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because the corporations, in all their greedy shortsightedness, can hire the replacement workers cheaper, with the side effect of gaining the illusion of ethnic diversity in their workforce.

      .

    4. Re:And it's not even an election year by lq_x_pl · · Score: 4, Informative

      More Americans emigrate than non-Americans immigrate?
      And I can't imagine the chart takes illegal/undocumented immigration into account, that is much harder to quantify.

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      An internal system operation returned the error "The operation completed successfully.".
    5. Re:And it's not even an election year by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      ethnic diversity?

      have you walked the hallways of companies that hire 'a lot' of h1b's?

      come visit the bay area. take a tour of any random cisco building, for example. just go into their cafeteria. or pick another well known tech company in the bay area. go walk their hallways. listen to the languages you hear there.

      come back and tell me about diversity.

      ok, you have a point. you can hear mandarin, cantonese, hindi and at least 10 other indian dialects. and so, yes, there's a KIND of diversity in tech, these days, in so-called US companies...

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    6. Re:And it's not even an election year by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A rich person doesn't want to give you money just so you can turn around and use it to buy stuff from him. Nobody gets richer that way.

      Really? you might want to tell Henry Ford about that. In fact their is an entire economic theory named after him because he did just that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

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      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    7. Re:And it's not even an election year by knightghost · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nope.

      3/4 of STEM workers flee the field due to substandard pay and working conditions compared to other jobs they can get.

      Petroleum engineers were scarce at one time, but a 20% pay raise brought a 200% productivity rate from local talent. Problem solved and everyone wins.

    8. Re: And it's not even an election year by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 5, Informative

      Your choice of how the United States saved Jews from the Nazi holocaust by allowing them to immigrate is a poor example:

      http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007652

      Beginning in 1940, the United States further restricted immigration by ordering US consuls to delay visa approvals on national security grounds. After the United States entered the World War II in December 1941, the trickle of immigration virtually dried up, just as the Nazi regime began systematically to murder the Jews of Europe. Despite many obstacles, however, more than 200,000 Jews found refuge in the United States from 1933 to 1945, most of them before the end of 1941.

      But, yes, we have a massive statue. The words on it may have to be updated though: "Give us your tired, your poor, your low-wage workers."

    9. Re: And it's not even an election year by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      after you unwrap yourself from the flag, I'll tell you the real story.

      the real story is: what applied back in the turn of the century does not apply any longer. lots of reasons, we can list them but I'm sure you agree that what made sense (letting tons of people in) does not, any more.

      WHY are we obligated to solve the world's problems and give everyone in the world the same rights as people who have a lot invested and who plan to live here long-term.

      see, that's one thing your little jingoistic story leaves out. the ellis island folks, by and large, did not plan to move here for a short stay, make a lot of money and return home. they were INVESTED here, they eventually learned the language and merged in. that was then.

      what we have now is a 'grab, take, return home' situation. we don't give these folks citizenship. look, if they are valuable, give them citizenship and let them be like the rest of us! let them live with the long-term results of what we all are going to face. if you come to shit in my country, take what's good and then leave, do you think people will want to like you?

      we don't give citizenship, really; we give h1b. 'temp work permits'. in that, its nothing like ellis island days. nothing AT ALL.

      stop playing star spangled banner and smell the real coffee. what worked 100 years ago is not applicable now. the workforce is too crowded, the unemployment is sky high and we are borderline on depression, again and again. is that a time you think of as a 'work surplus' era? I sure don't! if you have no surplus, you have no right giving out jobs to people who are not as invested as those who were born and raised here.

      and yes, I do think that being born in a country and raised there DOES give you more rights over those who just moved in. try moving to germany or france or austria or switzerland or probably most other european countries and trying to be 'a citizen'. in some places, if you were not born there, you'll NEVER be one of them. jobs won't go to you first, etc etc. why do we have to import the word's labor force - especially when our own people are being routinely refused a living wage in the field they are WELL qualified to work in.

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    10. Re:And it's not even an election year by ckatko · · Score: 4, Funny

      Because you can't use fear-mongering to get your two parties consistently re-elected if your voters are fucking smart.

      For example, does anybody really think conservatives want to ban abortion? Why get rid of your best ticket to office when you can make some lame-ass attempt to ban it, have it struck down, and then blame the "liberal agenda" and "liberal courts" further reinforcing their voter base.

      And don't you dare think liberals are any better.

      It's pretty damn coincidental, don't you think, that a Clinton or Bush has been in the White House every year going all the way back to 1971. Bush senior was president, vice president, ambassador to the UN, and Director of the fucking CIA--arguably the worlds most powerful organization ever. They've outright admitted to overthrowing other governments and we're stupid enough to think they wouldn't try their tactics in the USA?

      How did Obama's platform of government transparency work out? Does anything really believe he intended to be transparent and then just magically changed his mind 180 degrees, and then went on to increase all of the Bush Era spying? He either lied outright, or was magically forced to change his opinion. Either way, it's a complete fuck up.

    11. Re: And it's not even an election year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm from Canada and it ain't working here either! The company I work for just recently started importing cheap software developers from India using Cognizant, meanwhile my own brother who earned his degree in CS from a top university (while plunging himself neck deep in OSAP debt) is having a hard time finding a job! Its not working anywhere, how can it when you are giving jobs meant for citizens away to foreigners?

    12. Re:And it's not even an election year by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Informative

      Are they TRYING to destroy the country!?

      Yes. They are. They are doing the economic equivalent of selling-short. When the US crashes, they will profit. Better for the US (and the world) would be to open the borders, and effectively declare that anyone in the world can be a US citizen, if they so wish. That's how it was when the country was founded.

      Anyone here on 4, July 1776 was a citizen, by default. Amnesty for all. But now, the "conservatives" hate everything the founding fathers did.

    13. Re: And it's not even an election year by shaitand · · Score: 3

      "you have not been involved in any significant tech hiring in the last few years"

      That's because good tech talent is a rare commodity and the only way to find out if you've found it is to hire people and test them. It isn't like you burn through the entire talent pool looking. There are plenty here in the US without going overseas, overseas you don't find more talented people, it's the same grind, you hire and try them out.

      And if you are looking for perfect drop in replacements who don't need a year or so to settle in and learn the in's and out's of your particular environment move along. You are a serious part of the problem.

      The biggest secret to having good people isn't hiring H1B's it's working to retain the people you have.

    14. Re: And it's not even an election year by shaitand · · Score: 4, Informative

      Oh the BS stat that stops counting when unemployment funds run out. Come out when your "facts" actually include everyone who is unemployed and not just those in the short period of time you can collect unemployment.

    15. Re: And it's not even an election year by shaitand · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But would they pay competitive US market rates?

    16. Re: And it's not even an election year by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm pretty well experienced in US tech. after college, I stayed in boston for 10 years working at a well known new england computer company. I later moved to the bay area and have been here 25+ years. all working for tech (software eng). I know this field, I have worked at quite a few top-name companies and so have real experience in matters that we're discussing.

      when I moved here 25 or so years ago, seeing the mix of imported labor vs US born was more reasonable. still not representative, but not outrageous. maybe half of my group were from asia/india and the rest US born. over the years, its gotton to be about 90% asia/india, for any given group other than upper management. in engineering, you can now walk the hallways of many bay area companies and if its an engineering building, english will be the exception, not the rule. I am not lying, those who live here can verify this if they are brave enough to speak up about it.

      now, it would be fair if you found about 10% or so of each group being imported labor. I can agree that there may be some jobs that are so specialized that no one locally can do. but when it gets to 50%, 70%, 90% of the typical group (sw, hw, sysadmin, devops, etc) - then I really question that *everyone* there is special and could not be done by a willing and able local person. most companies are run on the meat and potatoes person - competant, able, but no genius. for that, you should be able to find local employees. but when you see that 90% of a software or hardware group is h1b, you really know that its all a scam and a lie that 'no one local could be found' for all those regular old jobs.

      hey, I started out wanting the glory jobs. I think I'm pretty good, I've been around, I've done lots of things. I was not getting the jobs that I applied for. so I lowered the threshold and applied for the so-called meat and potato jobs. the ones that even average people can do (and who is often hired). nope, shut out of those, too. all staffed with indian and chinese folks. I was willing to do nearly any software work that paid a living wage, and could not find it. I've personally been looking for a few months, now, and its this way for many of us.

      again, if the 10% cream-of-the-cream jobs were only fillable with international talent, fine, cool, I'm ok with that. but that's not even close to what the actual reality is. its abused beyond abuse.

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    17. Re:And it's not even an election year by tburkhol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uh, I thought we *were* investing in the education of Americans.

      Then you're not paying attention. Sure, all the politicians say they're committed to improving education, but they've been saying that for 200 years. It's the verbal equivalent of shaking hands.

      Meanwhile, when the dollars hit the budget, it turns out that tax cuts, health care, and defense/police/security are much higher priorities. 20 years ago, the cost of educating a student in a state university was largely born by the state. Today, it's largely born by the student. You can look up your own state's numbers: here in Georgia, over the past 10 years, we've gone from 60% state funding to 38%. The per-student cost has gone up 3%/year, just like inflation, but the student's share has gone up 10%/year. The loss of state funding has encouraged these schools to more aggressively recruit foreign students and their uncapped tuition.

      Curiously, because all of our politicians are wealthy, this makes the education they can provide for their own children just a little more valuable.

    18. Re: And it's not even an election year by gbjbaanb · · Score: 3, Informative

      partly population concerns - while Amwerica is a big, wide, empty country you all want to live in very crowded little communities. Increasing immigration causes more pressure on those communities for things like housing and traffic.

      Then there's the economic issue, while the wild west had no social care benefits, today you have many. So every new immigrant either has no job and gets benefits, or has a job and pays his own way but helps to displace another worker who then ends up on benefits.

      In the UK we see this a lot, while immigration has increased dramatically, the number of jobs has increased relatively slowly, so we have 6 million immigrants but 2 million unemployed. Our health and education systems have not been funded accordingly though, and are showing signs of collapse. Hence, immigration is a good thing, but only to a point - not as an unlimited influx.

      Its probably entirely linked to the rate of immigration overall, in the old days when we had few immigrants being drip-fed into the system things were OK, now we have a flood people are getting concerned.

    19. Re: And it's not even an election year by nctritech · · Score: 4, Informative

      Oh look, unemployment stats. Too bad they don't count the people that aren't on unemployment anymore but can't find work.

    20. Re: And it's not even an election year by RabidReindeer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why does it not work? Even the Irish and Chinese railroad workers were made citizens. We brought in temp workers, and kept them. Africa first, others later. All were made citizens (and yes, slaves were citizens, just not free ones). We've always had a love-hate relationship with workers, but, until recently, were happy to make them citizens.

      That's the point, though. All the asians I know of who are citizens didn't become citizens via H1-B, they did it on our own.

      Yes, my state - and probably yours - is full of towns whose names and history reflect the fact that someone brought over people en-masse from some other town, village or country primarily to serve as cheap - and frequently semi-captive labor. That's not even touching the importation of slaves from Africa.

      And those people often brought financial hurt to established citizens because they were easier to control and to keep under low wages.

      But they were nevertheless brought in as permanent residents with citizenship rights - even the slaves, allowing for differences in who got what "citizenship rights".

      The H1-B program was specifically designed to bring in temporary immigrants, not people who'd eventually grow to become a permanent part of the tax-paying populace and even to demand competitive wages instead of exploitative ones.

    21. Re: And it's not even an election year by bored · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The biggest secret to having good people isn't hiring H1B's it's working to retain the people you have.

      But... This would imply that people aren't "human resources" that can be swapped with each other at will. It implies that someone who works on a project for a few years can contribute more meaningfully to a product than someone just hired.

      I've seen this a few times in my career, an "average" developer with a few years experience on a project may not be as celebrated as the rock star that was just hired, but a couple years down the line when the rock star has moved on, its the "average" developer's code that doesn't need weekly maintenance. Its, often the guys that have been there for a couple years tasked with cleaning up the mess. A problem, much harder than creating it in the first place. That is if they are still around, because even an average developer can put their resume out there and get a pay bump if they put the effort into it.

      Bottom line, I totally agree, retention of good solid "average" developers is what companies should be focusing on. Everyone is looking for a magic solution, but in reality a lot of software development is just slogging through loads and loads of unstimulating work.

  2. About time. by roc97007 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I don't have the visibility to say whether this is endemic, but I observer that a manager in my own organization stated openly not long ago that H-1B would get preference in new hires or backfill hires for budgetary purposes. And he has been as good as his word. About half the organization is now made up of foreign contractors, and the percentage is growing.

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    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:About time. by jimmydevice · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Fucking A, We have been paying more in taxes then most of the H1B's were making back in their homeland FOR FUCKING YEARS. What do we get? More taxes and a stab in the back by the Plutocrats as they stroke the 1% ers. When you're out of work, You think those bastards will help you? Unemployment has been reduced to 9 months and good luck getting on foodstamps. Don't even think about getting any cash to keep the lights or landline on unless you have mewling brats. Plan to sell everything you own if you're out of the market longer then a year.

      FUCK YOU Mr Anon. I've been there.

    2. Re:About time. by roc97007 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When a company I worked for outsourced IT, they required all displaced employees to document their jobs to the extent that offshore operators could do them.

      it seems to me that this makes three, shall we say, outrageously optimistic assumptions: (1) that untrained operators can do the job based entirely on looking up solutions, (2) that IT jobs can be entirely quantized into a reasonable number of procedures, and (3) that displaced employees would be sufficiently motivated to document their jobs to the degree necessary that operators could do them.

      A side assumption, equally optimistic, is that managers have enough savvy to tell whether displaced employees have done a good job documenting the work they do, or are just having them on.

      So, cutover happens -- and the lights go out.

      ...and the outsourcing company's excuse is invariably that the outgoing employees didn't document their jobs well enough (probably true, see (2) and (3) above) but entirely ignores the hard reality (see (1) above) that you really can't buy competent help for three rupees a day.

      But we saved a lot of money.

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      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    3. Re:About time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'll bite.

      1. The sole purpose of a government is to protect the people it governs. This may not be done right, due to special interest groups, but that is the idea. The government is to protect supply / trade lines. It is to prevent crime as dictated by its laws. It is to provide security against foreign or local invaders. It is also suppose to work towards the general betterment of the nation (roads, sewers, etc). You wouldn't see a country one-sidedly give away chunks of its GDP without cause.

      2. By giving jobs to H1-Bs or other foreign individuals preference over local employees (even if they got paid the same, which they don't), the companies are investing in foreign countries, and stopping local investment by the people that would live in the US for an extended period of time. H1-Bs aren't going to buy a house to live in. They aren't going to care about property values or anything of the like. They aren't going to be able to start a family here either. I will assume they at least pay income tax and sales tax, so they only really have that going for them.

      3. If these people's talents were so much better than our local talents, why are the companies working out of the US instead of say India or China? Simply put, they want to use the government and social structure (quality of life and laws and enforcement), while paying at the rate of the foreign protections (which are worse than ours). Companies that have their employees-to-be-fired train their H1-B replacements, that shows at the very least the new hires don't have skills needed.

      The real question is, what do these foreign workers have that they deserve to use us? There are certainly exceptions, such as the rare (in comparison) actually skilled individual. They can likely get in through other means aside from a temp worker program.

  3. Good luck by erp_consultant · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's standard to get ex-employees to sign agreements agreeing to keep their mouth shut in return for severance packages.

  4. Just Political Posturing by srichard25 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I believe this is just political posturing before they sign the bill to substantially increase the number of H1Bs. Now they can say that they "attempted" to punish companies who violate the rules of the H1B program.

    From TFA:
    "This letter is a significant development in this contentious issue. It arrives at the same time that lawmakers are pushing a substantial increase in H-1B visas under the I-Squared bill, legislation that would raise the H-1B cap. Two of the co-sponsors of the I-Squared bill also signed the letter asking for an investigation into H-1B program practices."

  5. But but but by abulafia · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The dead hand of government interfering with private contracts between adults is un-American.

    Just ask John Galt.

    Or most slash-dotters who rant about unions.

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  6. you cannot fight the tide by supernova87a · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Aside from the normal arguments about a shortage of workers *at what offered wage level* etc, etc., the more interesting question here is a question of demographics.

    When the world offers you endless numbers of reasonably well-trained workers who can fill your job openings at 1/2 the cost of US workers, what is a country to do? How long can a country resist that pressure? We may politically shout for better wages and training for US citizens to fill these jobs, but the deeper issue is that borders/barriers are less and less effective lately against a flood of competition from people who are cheaper and better (or hungrier).

    Americans I believe will have to come to grips with the possibility of a stagnant or even decreasing standard of living as the rest of the world takes what was once our position. No amount of restriction of H-1B visas will prevent that.

    1. Re:you cannot fight the tide by rcase5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't buy that. Much of the innovation that occurs in the technology originates here in the United States. The only reason we're seeing this "competition" from the rest of the world is technology execs (mostly American) see a way to do much of the same work for less money. So they're simply taking advantage of what they see is a relatively cheap international labor market.

      The problem with this is, if we keep giving away the store like we are now, innovation will start happening more and more in other countries, and less and less here. What American tech execs don't realize is, with innovation occurring outside the United States, they'll be less call for their services as well. Then they'll be the ones crying poor mouth because they no longer have their cushy jobs and vacation homes around the world. The irony will be is that they did it to themselves.

      It's standard American business practice to do things as cheaply as possible without regard to the consequences. So while American business "eats it's own tail", to to speak, there will be less and less to go around. Then, we'll be the third-world country, and countries where we once shopped for cheap tech labor will be shopping for cheap labor here. I don't see this happening for a good long while, but it will happen eventually if we aren't careful. The point is it doesn't have to happen at all.

      Some more food for thought: H1-B Visas are issued by the United States Government. The U.S. Government is supposed to represent the interests of the American people. We need to make our voices heard to our representatives. If our representatives don't act the way we want, then we need to replace them with representatives who will. We do not have to accept a lower standard of living if we don't want to. If we do, then it's our own fault!

    2. Re:you cannot fight the tide by Uberbah · · Score: 3

      When the world offers you endless numbers of reasonably well-trained workers who can fill your job openings at 1/2 the cost of US workers, what is a country to do? How long can a country resist that pressure?

      Uh, don't you have this backwards? How long can a country deliberately eviscerate it's working class and expect to remain stable? On the one hand, a working stiff is supposed to amass 5-6 figures in student loans for a top degree, but then have to compete with third world labor?

      We may politically shout for better wages and training for US citizens to fill these jobs, but the deeper issue is that borders/barriers are less and less effective lately against a flood of competition from people who are cheaper and better (or hungrier).

      Which is why Germany produces twice as many cars as the United States while it's workers are getting paid twice as much. You seem to think that this race-to-the-bottom is the natural order of things, rather than deliberate policy purchased by monied interests.

      H1-B is about expanding the labor pool, not because of a shortage of labor, but to force down prevailing wages for the benefit of corporate employers.

  7. Re:Did 'Em a Favor by rahvin112 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The guy that writes Dilbert worked for a Utility for 20 years, PG&E IIRC. His cartoons are based on the facts of his workplace while at the utility.

  8. Easy Solution To H1B Problem by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Have the local IT union hold the H1B. They can make sure the H1B's wages are exactly the same as anyone else's and if the H1B guy doesn't like the company, the union can place him somewhere else.

    Also: Create a local IT union. Seriously. You people keep complaining that you're getting fucked and fucked and fucked and yet the moment someone suggests creating a union... well... comments to follow.

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    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  9. expanding the H1B #s is good for nobody but few by nomad63 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For US: tech workers will suffer from unemployment or suppressed wages For H1B holders: The Tata's and Infosys' of this scheme will dangle the green card carrot in front of you while raping your wages to the tune of 50% For US companies: Economy will look like a spaceship, which no one can stop from going up Then the tech bubble will blow stockholders will suffer Indian H1B workers, who were waiting patiently for their green cards will be sent home with nothing to show for Recession will depress the job market for the American worker Who will benefit from this ? The few C- level executives with a golden parachute exit plans. It will not be their problem to fix the mess. It is the next sucker's problem to deal with. Tell me what is good about this plan ?

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  10. Work permits for the 1% ONLY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Give a work permit to anyone with $250k+ of W2 income per year: they'd have to post a bond for the equivalent in taxes for their first year.
    That would cover 90% of foreign job creators, and exclude 90% of job destroyers (cheap indentured servants).

    Full disclosure: I came to the US 17 years ago as an L1, then H1B.
    In that time I've created lots of jobs and paid > $10m in Fed and local taxes, but I'm a strong opponent of the current H1B system.
    It's crony capitalism at its worst.

  11. Re:One of the intented effects of H1B1 immigration by rcase5 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yeah, but this cuts both ways. If those international workers choose to return to their home countries, they could easily start innovating at home. Then all that time, energy, and experience that they gained here in the United States now becomes a strength in that worker's home country. I suspect this will be the trend, and the United States could very quickly lose it's edge in international innovation.

  12. Re:Please Let Me Play Devils Advocate by wierd_w · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Which is PRECISELY why the corporations MUST be controlled via strong force of law, NOT relaxed pampering and pandering.

    Since a corporations fiduciary obligation is the center of the corporation's universe, and all other considerations take second or even third stage (if at all!), then some other agency MUST step in to intercede to protect the system from the otherwise inevitable collapse. THAT IS THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT.

    The problem is that government panders to the corporations and gives them whatever they want, (and what they want is less legal restrictions on their ability to meet their fiduciary obligations, at the expense of all other concerns and practices) instead of busting their chops and holding their asses to the fire so they have to fly right.

    Going "But think of the poor corporations, just doing what they are forced to do by their evil share holders!" is bullshit. Instead, you should be demanding that government do its fucking job, instead of whoring itself out for career re-election dollars.