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Ten US Senators Seek Investigation Into the Replacement of US Tech Workers

dcblogs notes this story about a bipartisan group of U.S. senators that has asked for an investigation into whether companies are firing American workers and replacing them with foreign workers for the sake of cutting costs. "Ten U.S. senators, representing the political spectrum, are seeking a federal investigation into displacement of IT workers by H-1B-using contractors. They are asking the U.S. Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security and the Labor Department to investigate the use of the H-1B program "to replace large numbers of American workers" at Southern California Edison (SCE) and other employers. The letter to Attorney General Eric Holder and the secretaries of the two other departments, was signed by U.S. Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which has oversight over the Justice Department. The other signers are Sens. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.), a longtime ally of Grassley on H-1B issues; Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), David Vitter (R-La.), Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), Bill Cassidy (R-La.), Bernard Sanders (I-Vt.), James Inhofe (R-Okla.). Neither California senator signed on. "Southern California Edison ought to be the tipping point that finally compels Washington to take needed actions to protect American workers," Sessions said. Five hundred IT workers at SCE were cut, and many had to train their replacements."

84 of 407 comments (clear)

  1. And it's not even an election year by plopez · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They could be serious.

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    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:And it's not even an election year by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      if they would only realize that by making US employment of americans stronger, we will be able to AFFORD to buy the toys that our very companies are making (toys being used in the very general sense).

      what will happen to all those who came or want to come to the US? well, this will force their own countries to deal with their own problems instead of the 'I cant fix my own country, so I'll just go to the US, instead' mentality. if mobility was a bit more limited, people in their own countries would have to deal with and fix their own problems. that's a win/win for everyone.

      by allowing cheap labor to displace US workers, its lose/lose. nothing in india (and we all know, india is the #1 source of h1b tech workers) will get better if their 'top talent' all moves here for jobs; and the US struggles to keep its own people employed.

      we have let the ceo's ruin our economy for decades! their selfishness has stunted the entire US economy for all but the one percenters.

      then again, congress is all about the one percenters and so, expecting a fix from those who can't even SEE the problem is a bit overly optimistic.

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    2. Re:And it's not even an election year by kheldan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This. This times ONE MILLION. Why are we not investing in the education of Americans so they can be the 'replacement workers'? Why are we not promoting our own population rather than bringing in foreigners who will likely send all that money overseas? What the actual fuck? Are they TRYING to destroy the country!?

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    3. Re:And it's not even an election year by Dracos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because the corporations, in all their greedy shortsightedness, can hire the replacement workers cheaper, with the side effect of gaining the illusion of ethnic diversity in their workforce.

      .

    4. Re:And it's not even an election year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But you still want to sell to those countries, I'm guessing. So you're for free movement of goods, but not of people. Gotcha.

      It's incorrect to say that the home countries of H1-Bs don't benefit. In the first place, a lot of people send money home to their families. In the second place, a lot of those workers will eventually go home, taking with them the skills and experience they've gained in the USA, to the benefit of their own countries.

      Don't get me wrong, I understand that you have a problem with H1-Bs, and that's a perfectly valid concern. But don't try to dress up your concerns as "for the benefit of the poor foreign countries", because that's just bullshit.

    5. Re:And it's not even an election year by lq_x_pl · · Score: 4, Informative

      More Americans emigrate than non-Americans immigrate?
      And I can't imagine the chart takes illegal/undocumented immigration into account, that is much harder to quantify.

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      An internal system operation returned the error "The operation completed successfully.".
    6. Re:And it's not even an election year by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      ethnic diversity?

      have you walked the hallways of companies that hire 'a lot' of h1b's?

      come visit the bay area. take a tour of any random cisco building, for example. just go into their cafeteria. or pick another well known tech company in the bay area. go walk their hallways. listen to the languages you hear there.

      come back and tell me about diversity.

      ok, you have a point. you can hear mandarin, cantonese, hindi and at least 10 other indian dialects. and so, yes, there's a KIND of diversity in tech, these days, in so-called US companies...

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    7. Re:And it's not even an election year by Tailhook · · Score: 2

      It's incorrect to say that the home countries of H1-Bs don't benefit. In the first place, a lot of people send money home to their families.

      Trading your energetic youth for subsistence income is a benefit? I guess that's why Mexico is no longer a kleptocratic hell-hole where cartels no longer slaughter students en-masse after the police round up their victims for them.

      Oh. Wait...

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    8. Re:And it's not even an election year by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A rich person doesn't want to give you money just so you can turn around and use it to buy stuff from him. Nobody gets richer that way.

      Really? you might want to tell Henry Ford about that. In fact their is an entire economic theory named after him because he did just that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

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      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    9. Re: And it's not even an election year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      American here, Missouri resident. Let me explain something about what an American is, we are all immigrants, even the original natives. We (or are ancestors) all came here for opportunity, be that freedom, economic or other.

      When you talk about 'us' you're talking about people who came here for the same basic reason as those you call 'them'.

      I say come one, come all. Give us your poor, your weak and your down trodden. It is from that same pool that we have made this nation strong and prosperous.

      Do you know why America is so great? It's because we are made up of all the people if the World. It is because the American culture is a many splendored thing. We are a great nation for the simple fact that we are made up of such a diverse people. We are not great because we're Americans. We are great because we are English, French, Korean, Indian, Romainian, Botswanan, Japanese and so much more that I can't begin to list them all.

      For the record, we are not a Democracy ruled by the majority we are a Republic ruled by laws that make all if equal, no matter their lineage. That equality even extends to people who are not citizens, because some day they may well be.

      If you want to help make this nation better I suggest you keep these ideals in mind. They've served us well in the past and they'll serve us well in the future, provided we honor them.

    10. Re:And it's not even an election year by knightghost · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nope.

      3/4 of STEM workers flee the field due to substandard pay and working conditions compared to other jobs they can get.

      Petroleum engineers were scarce at one time, but a 20% pay raise brought a 200% productivity rate from local talent. Problem solved and everyone wins.

    11. Re: And it's not even an election year by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 5, Informative

      Your choice of how the United States saved Jews from the Nazi holocaust by allowing them to immigrate is a poor example:

      http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007652

      Beginning in 1940, the United States further restricted immigration by ordering US consuls to delay visa approvals on national security grounds. After the United States entered the World War II in December 1941, the trickle of immigration virtually dried up, just as the Nazi regime began systematically to murder the Jews of Europe. Despite many obstacles, however, more than 200,000 Jews found refuge in the United States from 1933 to 1945, most of them before the end of 1941.

      But, yes, we have a massive statue. The words on it may have to be updated though: "Give us your tired, your poor, your low-wage workers."

    12. Re: And it's not even an election year by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      after you unwrap yourself from the flag, I'll tell you the real story.

      the real story is: what applied back in the turn of the century does not apply any longer. lots of reasons, we can list them but I'm sure you agree that what made sense (letting tons of people in) does not, any more.

      WHY are we obligated to solve the world's problems and give everyone in the world the same rights as people who have a lot invested and who plan to live here long-term.

      see, that's one thing your little jingoistic story leaves out. the ellis island folks, by and large, did not plan to move here for a short stay, make a lot of money and return home. they were INVESTED here, they eventually learned the language and merged in. that was then.

      what we have now is a 'grab, take, return home' situation. we don't give these folks citizenship. look, if they are valuable, give them citizenship and let them be like the rest of us! let them live with the long-term results of what we all are going to face. if you come to shit in my country, take what's good and then leave, do you think people will want to like you?

      we don't give citizenship, really; we give h1b. 'temp work permits'. in that, its nothing like ellis island days. nothing AT ALL.

      stop playing star spangled banner and smell the real coffee. what worked 100 years ago is not applicable now. the workforce is too crowded, the unemployment is sky high and we are borderline on depression, again and again. is that a time you think of as a 'work surplus' era? I sure don't! if you have no surplus, you have no right giving out jobs to people who are not as invested as those who were born and raised here.

      and yes, I do think that being born in a country and raised there DOES give you more rights over those who just moved in. try moving to germany or france or austria or switzerland or probably most other european countries and trying to be 'a citizen'. in some places, if you were not born there, you'll NEVER be one of them. jobs won't go to you first, etc etc. why do we have to import the word's labor force - especially when our own people are being routinely refused a living wage in the field they are WELL qualified to work in.

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    13. Re:And it's not even an election year by Rakarra · · Score: 2

      look -- another post full of the economic-policy voodoo "logic" that suggests we can prosper better as a nation by isolating ourselves from trade, contrary not only to theory but to every single example in recorded history

      Few countries have ever prospered by restricting "trade," but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about immigration to displace US workers, and I can't think of a country that doesn't have some measures to limit that.

      As long as we have millions more people in the US who consume computer-powered services than earn their living producing them, the population as a whole will prosper better by having those services done at a lower cost

      Great theory! Unfortunately the reality we've seen is that jobs are lost for domestic workers, and then not replaced by other jobs. I would say this is a version of the trickle-down theory, because all it does is drive wages down, increasing corporate profits at the expense of workers. We're still waiting for the great wave of prosperity that this practice is supposed to bring.

    14. Re: And it's not even an election year by MarkGately · · Score: 2

      Missouri residenthere...to the other Missouri resident.. stfu..you pushing your ignorance of current issues instead of learning the facts is a detriment to all of us with some damn sense.. your a disgrace to all of us in the Show Me State! The H1-B visa program is a scam to line thr pockets of oligarchs while displacing American workers and depressing employment and wages. You sound as a big business republican shill. My great great grandfather Chauncey Shultz of St.Louis would slap the piss out of you for your ignorance.

    15. Re:And it's not even an election year by ckatko · · Score: 4, Funny

      Because you can't use fear-mongering to get your two parties consistently re-elected if your voters are fucking smart.

      For example, does anybody really think conservatives want to ban abortion? Why get rid of your best ticket to office when you can make some lame-ass attempt to ban it, have it struck down, and then blame the "liberal agenda" and "liberal courts" further reinforcing their voter base.

      And don't you dare think liberals are any better.

      It's pretty damn coincidental, don't you think, that a Clinton or Bush has been in the White House every year going all the way back to 1971. Bush senior was president, vice president, ambassador to the UN, and Director of the fucking CIA--arguably the worlds most powerful organization ever. They've outright admitted to overthrowing other governments and we're stupid enough to think they wouldn't try their tactics in the USA?

      How did Obama's platform of government transparency work out? Does anything really believe he intended to be transparent and then just magically changed his mind 180 degrees, and then went on to increase all of the Bush Era spying? He either lied outright, or was magically forced to change his opinion. Either way, it's a complete fuck up.

    16. Re:And it's not even an election year by s.petry · · Score: 2

      Not a valid generalization any longer. The US Government is broken and opportunity does not exist any longer, it only supports the top .1%, and people see it. In fact I know quite a few natural born citizens who have fled the US for that reason. Well, that and the fact that our continued deficit economy and massive debt will have a massive crash.

      Intelligent people from other countries see the problems better than US people do. Always easier to see and critique other people. Why would they want to trade problems in a foreign land, identical to what they have back home? They don't, but if the exchange rate is good they are happy to pull out some of ours and exchange it to theirs.

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      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    17. Re: And it's not even an election year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm from Canada and it ain't working here either! The company I work for just recently started importing cheap software developers from India using Cognizant, meanwhile my own brother who earned his degree in CS from a top university (while plunging himself neck deep in OSAP debt) is having a hard time finding a job! Its not working anywhere, how can it when you are giving jobs meant for citizens away to foreigners?

    18. Re:And it's not even an election year by hawguy · · Score: 2

      But H1Bs basically aren't allowed to stay and get treated like shit while they are here.

      Can't move jobs; because if they are ever unemployed even for a moment they are breaching visa requirements and immediately deported; or jailed, and then deported.

      So we kick them back out again, and start the cycle again. (Saying goodbye to their spending power and wages we just paid them, since they take it back to India [or wherever])

      Even if the employer files for H1-B revocation, it can take months to process that paperwork, so generally if an H1-B holder loses their job they have a bit of time to search for employment - they'll usually be able to transfer their visa to a new employer if they find a new job within 30 days. My company just hired an H1-B applicant that was in this situation -- his employer shut down suddenly, he was jobless for about 2 weeks before we hired him and filed for the transfer.

      No INS agent is going to bang on your door and take you away the day you lose your job.

      While some H1-B's may scrimp and save up money to send home (or take back home with them at the end of their employment), most H1-B's I know spend most of their money just like everyone else - on housing, food, transportation, entertainment, etc. Likewise, if they are only in the country for a few years, they will have paid social security and medicare taxes that they will not get any benefit from (though they may get relief from some or all of their social security tax obligation if they are from a country with a totalization agreement with the USA -- mostly European and (some) Asian countries, notable exceptions are India and China)

    19. Re:And it's not even an election year by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

      Which misses the point entirely. And if you were not allowed to come work in America, New Delhi, or whatever, would become the tech center of the world; Or at least shared that distinction to a greater degree. It is a self fulfilling prophecy. America sucking the top 1% of talent from India does it nothing but harm. These are the people who would otherwise have enticed companies into India or created their own tech companies.

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    20. Re:And it's not even an election year by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Informative

      Are they TRYING to destroy the country!?

      Yes. They are. They are doing the economic equivalent of selling-short. When the US crashes, they will profit. Better for the US (and the world) would be to open the borders, and effectively declare that anyone in the world can be a US citizen, if they so wish. That's how it was when the country was founded.

      Anyone here on 4, July 1776 was a citizen, by default. Amnesty for all. But now, the "conservatives" hate everything the founding fathers did.

    21. Re: And it's not even an election year by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      Why does it not work? Even the Irish and Chinese railroad workers were made citizens. We brought in temp workers, and kept them. Africa first, others later. All were made citizens (and yes, slaves were citizens, just not free ones). We've always had a love-hate relationship with workers, but, until recently, were happy to make them citizens.

    22. Re:And it's not even an election year by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 2

      Uhuh, sure ... the really assertive and organized people will make it work.

      The rest can be abused, at the very least the first year. You can not honestly tell me that whole layered client/vendor/consultant shit which grew up around H1Bs is not an evil clusterfuck.

    23. Re:And it's not even an election year by ph1ll · · Score: 2

      "Anyone here on 4, July 1776 was a citizen, by default."

      Really? The slaves became citizens?

      (America was and always has been based on exploiting cheap labor. I'm not a commie, I just think there is a balance and America doesn't have it.)

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      --- "We've always been at war with Eastasia."
    24. Re:And it's not even an election year by eclectro · · Score: 2

      Why are we not investing in the education of Americans so they can be the 'replacement workers'?

      Part of the perfect lie that is STEM is that only a few people need training to perform manufacturing tasks. And for those few that do need some additional skills on the job training works great. Apprenticeships are alive and well in China. It does not take much looking under the rug to see the dirt, and it's everywhere. When Apple was making the first version of their iphone over in China at Foxcon they were hiring workers on a daily basis straight off from the rural farms. They were not turning anyone away.

      How much training did those workers have?? Apple seemed to make do with them.

      But I do not remember any widespread training in the US for those same jobs. Instead everybody was jacking their stock price higher than ever while Apple et al said that they did not have enough trained workers. Everybody wants to look the other way because they want to think that it is a shiny miracle - not the disparagement of the tech workforce that it really turned out to be at every corner.

      The workers that they did have stateside they found a way to collude with other tech giants in order to control salaries. Other degreed and experienced engineers like Eric Saragoza they merely sloughed off. Nobody was going to hire him at his age when there was a giant surplus of workers looking for work even before the great recession. Merely because of how companies like Apple were able to export tech work to both India and China and eveywhere in between.

      I really do not know how any stateside tech worker can buy an Apple product especially under Tim Cook, because they are actually helping to fund the demise of there own career.

      So H1Bs are really just one piece of the larger puzzle used to help control the prices they are willing to pay for skilled labor in the US. When they say youngsters need to study STEM, what there really are saying is;

      "we want to keep wages completely stagnant and you can help us do that by paying for your own training so we can get rid of older workers. But if you do not show up that works for us too, because we'll just get cheap H1Bs as they're easy to train and won't ask for raises. If they do, we'll just have some under the table agreements and they'll have no place to go. They can train their own replacement if they become too much of a hassle. Oh, math and physics majors, don't bother applying because you're not in our salary range either. We'll just say you're stupid and can't handle tech."

      I could go on, but that's the gist of it. The really smart Electrical Engineers went to wall street and became successful quants. So at least one industry culture needed and saw the value in skills that could be transferred.

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      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    25. Re:And it's not even an election year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm on the other side of the fence.

      Got my arm twisted to come to the Bay Area. Nice weather to be sure. I got some special qualifications, which got me here, and as I later found out much cheaper that a local would have been.

      Needless to say, I'm on the verge of flipping the finger and head back home. Well that experience will pay off, I suppose. When I apply at the competitors'.

    26. Re:And it's not even an election year by shaitand · · Score: 2

      That's because of greed on the part of universities.

    27. Re: And it's not even an election year by shaitand · · Score: 3

      "you have not been involved in any significant tech hiring in the last few years"

      That's because good tech talent is a rare commodity and the only way to find out if you've found it is to hire people and test them. It isn't like you burn through the entire talent pool looking. There are plenty here in the US without going overseas, overseas you don't find more talented people, it's the same grind, you hire and try them out.

      And if you are looking for perfect drop in replacements who don't need a year or so to settle in and learn the in's and out's of your particular environment move along. You are a serious part of the problem.

      The biggest secret to having good people isn't hiring H1B's it's working to retain the people you have.

    28. Re: And it's not even an election year by shaitand · · Score: 4, Informative

      Oh the BS stat that stops counting when unemployment funds run out. Come out when your "facts" actually include everyone who is unemployed and not just those in the short period of time you can collect unemployment.

    29. Re: And it's not even an election year by shaitand · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But would they pay competitive US market rates?

    30. Re: And it's not even an election year by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 2

      I can guarantee you the company I work for would pay the same for an American worker as a foreign H1-B worker, if we could actually fine ANY worker that we found competent to do the job...

      The part you're leaving out is, "at the same pay we can get away with on an H1-B"

      If you're claiming you can't find a worker who can do a job, that is just nonsense. You can ALWAYS find someone... you just might have to pay more than you'd like...

      Right now, I live in Texas. If I had the skills you need, offering me $200K isn't going to get me to move. Depending on the part of the country, you'd have to pay me closer to $750K (SF Bay area or LA area), elsewhere, probably $400K would get me interested.

      Oh, that's right, you don't want to pay that. Well then just say so, since you can easily find people if you ramp the pay up enough.

    31. Re:And it's not even an election year by shaitand · · Score: 2

      "Either the foreigners come to the jobs or the jobs go to the foreigners. If Google can't bring the talent they want to the USA then it's very easy for them to open offices overseas. There's plenty of room for improvement when it comes to the current H1-B program but it's ridiculously naive to imagine that there are a fixed number of jobs in the USA and all that matters is how many are stolen by foreigners."

      That is also naive. The US is still the largest economy in the world, the companies are here because the money is here. Google, etc could already open offices overseas and not have to deal with any "tech shortage" or H1-B hassles. But google's profits come from the US and Google needs US infrastructure. If Indian or Chinese infrastructure were up to the task they'd still be screwed because of the latency induced by literally sending data back and forth to the other side of the world.

      If you were an American still in Tech you wouldn't be saying this. Walking up and down the halls you find nothing but foreign workers.

    32. Re: And it's not even an election year by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm pretty well experienced in US tech. after college, I stayed in boston for 10 years working at a well known new england computer company. I later moved to the bay area and have been here 25+ years. all working for tech (software eng). I know this field, I have worked at quite a few top-name companies and so have real experience in matters that we're discussing.

      when I moved here 25 or so years ago, seeing the mix of imported labor vs US born was more reasonable. still not representative, but not outrageous. maybe half of my group were from asia/india and the rest US born. over the years, its gotton to be about 90% asia/india, for any given group other than upper management. in engineering, you can now walk the hallways of many bay area companies and if its an engineering building, english will be the exception, not the rule. I am not lying, those who live here can verify this if they are brave enough to speak up about it.

      now, it would be fair if you found about 10% or so of each group being imported labor. I can agree that there may be some jobs that are so specialized that no one locally can do. but when it gets to 50%, 70%, 90% of the typical group (sw, hw, sysadmin, devops, etc) - then I really question that *everyone* there is special and could not be done by a willing and able local person. most companies are run on the meat and potatoes person - competant, able, but no genius. for that, you should be able to find local employees. but when you see that 90% of a software or hardware group is h1b, you really know that its all a scam and a lie that 'no one local could be found' for all those regular old jobs.

      hey, I started out wanting the glory jobs. I think I'm pretty good, I've been around, I've done lots of things. I was not getting the jobs that I applied for. so I lowered the threshold and applied for the so-called meat and potato jobs. the ones that even average people can do (and who is often hired). nope, shut out of those, too. all staffed with indian and chinese folks. I was willing to do nearly any software work that paid a living wage, and could not find it. I've personally been looking for a few months, now, and its this way for many of us.

      again, if the 10% cream-of-the-cream jobs were only fillable with international talent, fine, cool, I'm ok with that. but that's not even close to what the actual reality is. its abused beyond abuse.

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    33. Re:And it's not even an election year by tburkhol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uh, I thought we *were* investing in the education of Americans.

      Then you're not paying attention. Sure, all the politicians say they're committed to improving education, but they've been saying that for 200 years. It's the verbal equivalent of shaking hands.

      Meanwhile, when the dollars hit the budget, it turns out that tax cuts, health care, and defense/police/security are much higher priorities. 20 years ago, the cost of educating a student in a state university was largely born by the state. Today, it's largely born by the student. You can look up your own state's numbers: here in Georgia, over the past 10 years, we've gone from 60% state funding to 38%. The per-student cost has gone up 3%/year, just like inflation, but the student's share has gone up 10%/year. The loss of state funding has encouraged these schools to more aggressively recruit foreign students and their uncapped tuition.

      Curiously, because all of our politicians are wealthy, this makes the education they can provide for their own children just a little more valuable.

    34. Re: And it's not even an election year by tburkhol · · Score: 2

      You're talking about immigrants that come to STAY and become citizens, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the subject matter here, which is foreign workers coming for limited stays just to work, displacing American citizens

      Many of the H1-b's would stay if they could. Most of the foreign students come here hoping that a US education visa will be a stepping stone to a work visa, will be a stepping stone to a green card. Unfortunately, xenophobia and the pressure to preserve jobs for current citizens have put very restrictive limits on the availability of long-term visas and green cards. H1b was developed as a compromise - get some of the foreign talent, but protect US workers by forcing the foreigners to leave. Ironic, isn't it, that the plan to protect US workers is now being blamed for the loss of domestic jobs.

    35. Re:And it's not even an election year by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2

      The slaves became citizens?

      Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation? Notice how nobody ever made the slaves citizens? They just set them free. Why is that? Oh yes, they were citizens. If they weren't, when did they become citizens?

      Actually, the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in territories still under rebellion. A slave held in Maryland, for example, was not freed by it. It covered about 3/4 of the slaves in the US, although since the areas it covered were still under control by the Confederates it had no enforcement until Union troops captured the territory. The 13th amendment made slavery and indentured servitude illegal except for those convicted of a crime.

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      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    36. Re: And it's not even an election year by gbjbaanb · · Score: 3, Informative

      partly population concerns - while Amwerica is a big, wide, empty country you all want to live in very crowded little communities. Increasing immigration causes more pressure on those communities for things like housing and traffic.

      Then there's the economic issue, while the wild west had no social care benefits, today you have many. So every new immigrant either has no job and gets benefits, or has a job and pays his own way but helps to displace another worker who then ends up on benefits.

      In the UK we see this a lot, while immigration has increased dramatically, the number of jobs has increased relatively slowly, so we have 6 million immigrants but 2 million unemployed. Our health and education systems have not been funded accordingly though, and are showing signs of collapse. Hence, immigration is a good thing, but only to a point - not as an unlimited influx.

      Its probably entirely linked to the rate of immigration overall, in the old days when we had few immigrants being drip-fed into the system things were OK, now we have a flood people are getting concerned.

    37. Re: And it's not even an election year by nctritech · · Score: 4, Informative

      Oh look, unemployment stats. Too bad they don't count the people that aren't on unemployment anymore but can't find work.

    38. Re: And it's not even an election year by pscottdv · · Score: 2

      The difference is not in the attitudes of the people that come here. The difference is in us. We used to let people stay and now we send them home after they get their education or their contract runs out. It's the dumbest possible move on our part. Once we have invested in educating or training someone productive we should encourage that person to stay, not send him or her home.

      --

      this signature has been removed due to a DMCA takedown notice

    39. Re: And it's not even an election year by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      what we have now is a 'grab, take, return home' situation

      It's called 'remittance', and it's a huge massive BFD that hardly anyone is talking about. Please take a look at this map and stats in the following link. THAT is where US dollars are flowing.

      http://www.pewsocialtrends.org...

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    40. Re:And it's not even an election year by gbjbaanb · · Score: 2

      Because they are trying to destroy your jobs, not their own.

      The day that the H1B programme also applies to MBAs and Managers is the day that corporations stop using H1Bs.

    41. Re: And it's not even an election year by ebh · · Score: 2

      That was the point. You'd have to offer me the same kind of money to relocate, because I really don't want to run the risk of uprooting my family, only to get laid off in six months in a place where I have no roots. I've seen it happen too many times.

      But this is a digression. The companies that complain they can't hire the talent they need are really saying that they can't afford to hire the talent they need. Hiring H-1Bs is a Band-Aid. The companies that complain that they can't even hire H-1Bs with the talent they need are forgetting that just as everywhere else, all the best Chinese and Indian workers are already taken.

      One of the root causes of all this is that companies have mile-long must-have skill lists, and they expect to "install" new workers the way they install new PCs. Plug them in, turn them on, and they work starting right now. It used to be said that any new worker would take six months to a year to become truly productive. That hasn't changed, but somehow the industry has gone into a state of denial about it. The end result is even stupider: They spend more time looking for someone who is plug-compatible with the job than they would have spent hiring someone with the right basic skills and training them.

    42. Re: And it's not even an election year by RabidReindeer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why does it not work? Even the Irish and Chinese railroad workers were made citizens. We brought in temp workers, and kept them. Africa first, others later. All were made citizens (and yes, slaves were citizens, just not free ones). We've always had a love-hate relationship with workers, but, until recently, were happy to make them citizens.

      That's the point, though. All the asians I know of who are citizens didn't become citizens via H1-B, they did it on our own.

      Yes, my state - and probably yours - is full of towns whose names and history reflect the fact that someone brought over people en-masse from some other town, village or country primarily to serve as cheap - and frequently semi-captive labor. That's not even touching the importation of slaves from Africa.

      And those people often brought financial hurt to established citizens because they were easier to control and to keep under low wages.

      But they were nevertheless brought in as permanent residents with citizenship rights - even the slaves, allowing for differences in who got what "citizenship rights".

      The H1-B program was specifically designed to bring in temporary immigrants, not people who'd eventually grow to become a permanent part of the tax-paying populace and even to demand competitive wages instead of exploitative ones.

    43. Re:And it's not even an election year by Coren22 · · Score: 2

      Alright Mr CEO, calm down and send your assistant out for some lattes.

      In the real world, you are full of shit. You can't keep pushing salaries down for qualified Americans while whining about not enough workers, that isn't the way the economy works.

      If you want to have your company in the bay area, you pay the going rate for people. You can't expect your programmers to live in a box out back of the office.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    44. Re: And it's not even an election year by bored · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The biggest secret to having good people isn't hiring H1B's it's working to retain the people you have.

      But... This would imply that people aren't "human resources" that can be swapped with each other at will. It implies that someone who works on a project for a few years can contribute more meaningfully to a product than someone just hired.

      I've seen this a few times in my career, an "average" developer with a few years experience on a project may not be as celebrated as the rock star that was just hired, but a couple years down the line when the rock star has moved on, its the "average" developer's code that doesn't need weekly maintenance. Its, often the guys that have been there for a couple years tasked with cleaning up the mess. A problem, much harder than creating it in the first place. That is if they are still around, because even an average developer can put their resume out there and get a pay bump if they put the effort into it.

      Bottom line, I totally agree, retention of good solid "average" developers is what companies should be focusing on. Everyone is looking for a magic solution, but in reality a lot of software development is just slogging through loads and loads of unstimulating work.

    45. Re:And it's not even an election year by blue9steel · · Score: 2

      You can't expect your programmers to live in a box out back of the office.

      Sure you can, you just need to remove all their other options first.

    46. Re:And it's not even an election year by blue9steel · · Score: 2

      It is entirely legitimate to not want to wipe out the savings of the middle class just so you can get at the rich people. The rich people may lose a bigger absolute number, but the middle class will lose out proportionately.

      Putting the banks into receivership, wiping out the shareholders and selling off the assets to sounder banks to partially satisfy the bond holders while guaranteeing the depositors would have been the best solution for the middle class, it's also how capitalism is supposed to work. The implemented solution just acted as a giant wealth transfer to the rich.

  2. Meanwhile at the shareholder meeting ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    10 major shareholders representing 40% of open an investigation into why the company still has American workers and hasn't fired them and replaced them with foreign workers to cut costs.

  3. About time. by roc97007 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I don't have the visibility to say whether this is endemic, but I observer that a manager in my own organization stated openly not long ago that H-1B would get preference in new hires or backfill hires for budgetary purposes. And he has been as good as his word. About half the organization is now made up of foreign contractors, and the percentage is growing.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:About time. by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      I don't think you are serious and its obviously not right to treat ANYONE badly like that.

      what I would like to know is this: for those of us here who are not US born, how do you feel being in a tech company and 90% of the people you see are also not from the US? does that give you any guilt at all? do you honestly think that everyone you met that came from india or china was head and shoulders above a US-born worker.

      I've seen stellar programmers from india and china. I've also seen horrible work from people that came from those countries. in all, what I've seen in bay area companies is that the people they have working for them are average. very few companies have top talent, and yet the population is 90% asian. is the US 90% asian? I don't think so. not even in the bay area.

      so again, do you indian folks think that the system has been fair? how would you feel if the tables were turned: if your country allowed (which we know it does not!) foreign workers to come in and undercut the local labor force? suppose you walked into an indian company, in india, and 90% of the faces were white. would you think it was fair?

      next time you are sitting in a round table meeting, discussing the next non-indian candidate, before you immediately conclude 'not a cultural fit', think what each hiring decision is doing. think about fairness rather than staffing up with more folks of the same background as yourself.

      if we are fair with each other, we all win. if you continue to play the 'not a cultural fit', what kind of message are you really sending? and think about this: suppose your son or daughter were to witness the discrimination that happens at your company. would they be proud of you? is this the kind of morals you want them to have?

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:About time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      How many countries can someone from the US go into and be welcomed with open arms by the government and the people to replace their own workers? How about more than a hundred thousand people doing that in a single country?

    3. Re:About time. by jimmydevice · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Fucking A, We have been paying more in taxes then most of the H1B's were making back in their homeland FOR FUCKING YEARS. What do we get? More taxes and a stab in the back by the Plutocrats as they stroke the 1% ers. When you're out of work, You think those bastards will help you? Unemployment has been reduced to 9 months and good luck getting on foodstamps. Don't even think about getting any cash to keep the lights or landline on unless you have mewling brats. Plan to sell everything you own if you're out of the market longer then a year.

      FUCK YOU Mr Anon. I've been there.

    4. Re:About time. by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      all else being equal, citizens who spent 20+ years paying dues, being immersed in the culture of the country, having a PERMANENT STAKE in the success of their country - vs 'guests' who could really care less about the long-term success of our nation?

      YEAH, YOU BET! I WOULD HIRE AMERICANS ANY DAY over those who come to grab the goods and then run.

      yes, we deserve first choice on jobs. is your country different? let me visit your country and see if I can get a job there. I bet I can't - and its because YOUR country realizes that it needs to protect its own people.

      MY country - the US - sold its soul decades ago and cares nothing about its own long-term survival. but almost every other country in the modern world will not allow 'guests' to come in and tip the balance of the workforce.

      I don't know why you think YOU deserve a job over an equally qualified american, IN america!

      pretty ballsy of you to think so, too.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    5. Re:About time. by roc97007 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When a company I worked for outsourced IT, they required all displaced employees to document their jobs to the extent that offshore operators could do them.

      it seems to me that this makes three, shall we say, outrageously optimistic assumptions: (1) that untrained operators can do the job based entirely on looking up solutions, (2) that IT jobs can be entirely quantized into a reasonable number of procedures, and (3) that displaced employees would be sufficiently motivated to document their jobs to the degree necessary that operators could do them.

      A side assumption, equally optimistic, is that managers have enough savvy to tell whether displaced employees have done a good job documenting the work they do, or are just having them on.

      So, cutover happens -- and the lights go out.

      ...and the outsourcing company's excuse is invariably that the outgoing employees didn't document their jobs well enough (probably true, see (2) and (3) above) but entirely ignores the hard reality (see (1) above) that you really can't buy competent help for three rupees a day.

      But we saved a lot of money.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    6. Re:About time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'll bite.

      1. The sole purpose of a government is to protect the people it governs. This may not be done right, due to special interest groups, but that is the idea. The government is to protect supply / trade lines. It is to prevent crime as dictated by its laws. It is to provide security against foreign or local invaders. It is also suppose to work towards the general betterment of the nation (roads, sewers, etc). You wouldn't see a country one-sidedly give away chunks of its GDP without cause.

      2. By giving jobs to H1-Bs or other foreign individuals preference over local employees (even if they got paid the same, which they don't), the companies are investing in foreign countries, and stopping local investment by the people that would live in the US for an extended period of time. H1-Bs aren't going to buy a house to live in. They aren't going to care about property values or anything of the like. They aren't going to be able to start a family here either. I will assume they at least pay income tax and sales tax, so they only really have that going for them.

      3. If these people's talents were so much better than our local talents, why are the companies working out of the US instead of say India or China? Simply put, they want to use the government and social structure (quality of life and laws and enforcement), while paying at the rate of the foreign protections (which are worse than ours). Companies that have their employees-to-be-fired train their H1-B replacements, that shows at the very least the new hires don't have skills needed.

      The real question is, what do these foreign workers have that they deserve to use us? There are certainly exceptions, such as the rare (in comparison) actually skilled individual. They can likely get in through other means aside from a temp worker program.

    7. Re:About time. by Uberbah · · Score: 2

      I'm about as Liberal as it comes when it comes to social support networks being the backbone of an effective country and economy. But government can't bear the entire burden of your unemployment, you bear some costs in that including having to draw down personal assets including possessions because you are an adult who bears responsibility for your employment.

      The latter half of your statement makes a bald-faced liar out of the first. It's as much of a farce as watching Obamabots continuing they oppose war yet support Obama's drone strikes at the same time.

    8. Re:About time. by nctritech · · Score: 2

      If anyone ever figures out how to "document" experience and hands-on skills, I think they'd be the next Bill Gates.

    9. Re:About time. by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      If anyone ever figures out how to "document" experience and hands-on skills, I think they'd be the next Bill Gates.

      And that's the real issue -- the misconception that IT jobs are just a matter of pushing this button when that light goes on, and doesn't require education, experience, and diagnostic skills.

      And then, when that doesn't work, this develops into the misconception that you can have former taxi drivers in your first and second level support, and a few high achievers in your third level support to handle everything that they don't. And this turns into a few third level admins doing the work of twenty while the rest act as a buffer between them and increasingly angry customers.

      And then, when that doesn't work out, this develops into the misconception that you can train your former taxi drivers and grow them into junior admins. And so you find out that as soon as they get some training, they go across the street to a rival call center where they can get a higher paying job. (I mean, who wouldn't?)

      In the meantime, customers suffer, production plummets, and upper management go on speaking tours bragging about the money they saved.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  4. Yet the signers aren't pulling their support by gabrieltss · · Score: 2

    of the bill. They are complaining yet still signed on to support increasing the H1-B's. That tells me this is all smoke and mirrors. When will Americans realize they need to vote out every one of these bastards. Clean house - no one gets to keep their job.

    --
    The Truth is a Virus!!!
  5. Good luck by erp_consultant · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's standard to get ex-employees to sign agreements agreeing to keep their mouth shut in return for severance packages.

  6. Just Political Posturing by srichard25 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I believe this is just political posturing before they sign the bill to substantially increase the number of H1Bs. Now they can say that they "attempted" to punish companies who violate the rules of the H1B program.

    From TFA:
    "This letter is a significant development in this contentious issue. It arrives at the same time that lawmakers are pushing a substantial increase in H-1B visas under the I-Squared bill, legislation that would raise the H-1B cap. Two of the co-sponsors of the I-Squared bill also signed the letter asking for an investigation into H-1B program practices."

  7. But but but by abulafia · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The dead hand of government interfering with private contracts between adults is un-American.

    Just ask John Galt.

    Or most slash-dotters who rant about unions.

    --
    I forget what 8 was for.
  8. you cannot fight the tide by supernova87a · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Aside from the normal arguments about a shortage of workers *at what offered wage level* etc, etc., the more interesting question here is a question of demographics.

    When the world offers you endless numbers of reasonably well-trained workers who can fill your job openings at 1/2 the cost of US workers, what is a country to do? How long can a country resist that pressure? We may politically shout for better wages and training for US citizens to fill these jobs, but the deeper issue is that borders/barriers are less and less effective lately against a flood of competition from people who are cheaper and better (or hungrier).

    Americans I believe will have to come to grips with the possibility of a stagnant or even decreasing standard of living as the rest of the world takes what was once our position. No amount of restriction of H-1B visas will prevent that.

    1. Re:you cannot fight the tide by rcase5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't buy that. Much of the innovation that occurs in the technology originates here in the United States. The only reason we're seeing this "competition" from the rest of the world is technology execs (mostly American) see a way to do much of the same work for less money. So they're simply taking advantage of what they see is a relatively cheap international labor market.

      The problem with this is, if we keep giving away the store like we are now, innovation will start happening more and more in other countries, and less and less here. What American tech execs don't realize is, with innovation occurring outside the United States, they'll be less call for their services as well. Then they'll be the ones crying poor mouth because they no longer have their cushy jobs and vacation homes around the world. The irony will be is that they did it to themselves.

      It's standard American business practice to do things as cheaply as possible without regard to the consequences. So while American business "eats it's own tail", to to speak, there will be less and less to go around. Then, we'll be the third-world country, and countries where we once shopped for cheap tech labor will be shopping for cheap labor here. I don't see this happening for a good long while, but it will happen eventually if we aren't careful. The point is it doesn't have to happen at all.

      Some more food for thought: H1-B Visas are issued by the United States Government. The U.S. Government is supposed to represent the interests of the American people. We need to make our voices heard to our representatives. If our representatives don't act the way we want, then we need to replace them with representatives who will. We do not have to accept a lower standard of living if we don't want to. If we do, then it's our own fault!

    2. Re:you cannot fight the tide by Uberbah · · Score: 3

      When the world offers you endless numbers of reasonably well-trained workers who can fill your job openings at 1/2 the cost of US workers, what is a country to do? How long can a country resist that pressure?

      Uh, don't you have this backwards? How long can a country deliberately eviscerate it's working class and expect to remain stable? On the one hand, a working stiff is supposed to amass 5-6 figures in student loans for a top degree, but then have to compete with third world labor?

      We may politically shout for better wages and training for US citizens to fill these jobs, but the deeper issue is that borders/barriers are less and less effective lately against a flood of competition from people who are cheaper and better (or hungrier).

      Which is why Germany produces twice as many cars as the United States while it's workers are getting paid twice as much. You seem to think that this race-to-the-bottom is the natural order of things, rather than deliberate policy purchased by monied interests.

      H1-B is about expanding the labor pool, not because of a shortage of labor, but to force down prevailing wages for the benefit of corporate employers.

    3. Re:you cannot fight the tide by Microlith · · Score: 2

      borders/barriers are less and less effective lately against a flood of competition from people who are cheaper and better (or hungrier).

      Only because those borders are as porous as can be for corporations and what they desire, for you and me they are quite well sealed. And the notion that they're "better" is illusory. Having worked for several years with one outsourcing firm, I know the crap they churn out and their utter inability to move fast enough to get the job done. If you want it done right, or at all, do it inside.

      Americans I believe will have to come to grips with the possibility of a stagnant or even decreasing standard of living as the rest of the world takes what was once our position.

      You mean as the oligarchs in this world take more and more of the profits and shit on everyone below them. Well, yes, we'll just come to grips with the fact that we're all being robbed by a small number of monied elite. I suspect it won't end well for them.

    4. Re:you cannot fight the tide by alvinrod · · Score: 2

      The problem is that there isn't a single American company responsible for all innovation so everyone is trapped in this giant prisoner's dilemma where any company that does outsource gets a temporary competitive advantage and any company that drags its heels for too long on the issue isn't likely to remain in business because the other companies can drop their prices in response to reduced labor costs.

      The only solution is to get even better at innovation to the point where it elevates the rest of the world to a similar standard of living as quickly as possible. There are a lot of barriers to that, but I suspect that in the long term most of the cheap labor in China, Africa, etc. is going to be replaced by machines anyhow.

      It's probably still going to be a rude awakening for a lot of Americans (and other Westerners in general) when the open taps of cheap credit get cut off and not everyone can have all of the new shiny toys as often, but I think that we'll come out okay in the end.

  9. One of the intented effects of H1B1 immigration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    is the reduction of intellectual strength and tech development from foreign countries. If you can gather 100 000 highly educated and motivated people from foreign countries every year, and bring them into the U.S, then it's a "win" because these people's efforts will benefit the U.S instead of their home countries. This may displace Americans and put them in lower paid jobs, but that's not as urgent as the fight against the rest of the world. The people at the top of government wants all tech development to happen and be based inside the U.S economy, and pushing to increase the H1B1 caps is one effort to achieve that.

    The only time these investigations will happen, is when H1B1 visas are spent on cheap, Indian labor, instead of those brilliant minds that are actually wanted.

    1. Re:One of the intented effects of H1B1 immigration by rcase5 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah, but this cuts both ways. If those international workers choose to return to their home countries, they could easily start innovating at home. Then all that time, energy, and experience that they gained here in the United States now becomes a strength in that worker's home country. I suspect this will be the trend, and the United States could very quickly lose it's edge in international innovation.

  10. Re:Did 'Em a Favor by rahvin112 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The guy that writes Dilbert worked for a Utility for 20 years, PG&E IIRC. His cartoons are based on the facts of his workplace while at the utility.

  11. Neither CA Senator signed on... by rcase5 · · Score: 2

    It's not all surprising that neither Boxer or Feinstein signed on to this investigation, if indeed this is what it turns out to be (I share the skepticism that this is for real at all). Boxer is retiring at the end of her term in 2017, and Feinstein has always been a closet Republican. In any event, both Senators know who butters their bread, and that's Silicon Valley; perhaps the largest users (and abusers?) of the H1-B Visa program. They are also both from the Bay Area.

    1. Re:Neither CA Senator signed on... by rcase5 · · Score: 2

      Isn't Feinstein the #1 Senator against the right to own firearms?

      So? James Brady WAS a Republican and favored strict gun control. Perhaps you've heard of the "Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act"?

      Republicans are more than just about gun control. She has also been very business friendly. Her family has multiple business interests in the City and County of San Francisco. Very little happens there without her say-so, lest it affect her family's business interests. She's also pro-death penalty. She was also very gung-ho about NSA surveillance of American citizens until she realized that the NSA was also spying on Congress.

  12. Re:Sand in the hand by fhage · · Score: 2

    I know what you mean. We need vastly more H1-B MBA's. American MBA's labor costs are SO uncompetitive.

  13. multiculturalism is propaganda fuel of immigration by mix_left_and_right · · Score: 2, Insightful

    we can only stop the mass immigration invasion of cheap foreign labor when we realize that the plutocrats/corporations have been molding the minds of young americans via the educational curriculum using anti-white race-guilt propaganda. They tell young and impressionable whites that racism is the ultimate evil, and that being against the foreign invasion of third worlders is racist. Stop the multiculti indoctrination of edupropaganda --that is the first step.

  14. Easy Solution To H1B Problem by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Have the local IT union hold the H1B. They can make sure the H1B's wages are exactly the same as anyone else's and if the H1B guy doesn't like the company, the union can place him somewhere else.

    Also: Create a local IT union. Seriously. You people keep complaining that you're getting fucked and fucked and fucked and yet the moment someone suggests creating a union... well... comments to follow.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  15. expanding the H1B #s is good for nobody but few by nomad63 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For US: tech workers will suffer from unemployment or suppressed wages For H1B holders: The Tata's and Infosys' of this scheme will dangle the green card carrot in front of you while raping your wages to the tune of 50% For US companies: Economy will look like a spaceship, which no one can stop from going up Then the tech bubble will blow stockholders will suffer Indian H1B workers, who were waiting patiently for their green cards will be sent home with nothing to show for Recession will depress the job market for the American worker Who will benefit from this ? The few C- level executives with a golden parachute exit plans. It will not be their problem to fix the mess. It is the next sucker's problem to deal with. Tell me what is good about this plan ?

    --

    __________
    The more I know people, the more I love animals
  16. Work permits for the 1% ONLY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Give a work permit to anyone with $250k+ of W2 income per year: they'd have to post a bond for the equivalent in taxes for their first year.
    That would cover 90% of foreign job creators, and exclude 90% of job destroyers (cheap indentured servants).

    Full disclosure: I came to the US 17 years ago as an L1, then H1B.
    In that time I've created lots of jobs and paid > $10m in Fed and local taxes, but I'm a strong opponent of the current H1B system.
    It's crony capitalism at its worst.

  17. Oh gee.. by koan · · Score: 2

    Are the politicians going to take a meeting to form a committee to evaluate the possbility of an investigation into h1b practices?
    No shit they are firing American workers, and Zuckerberg is one of the leader in this field.

    So if you're using Facebook.... fuck you from the bottom of my heart.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  18. Re:Please Let Me Play Devils Advocate by wierd_w · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Which is PRECISELY why the corporations MUST be controlled via strong force of law, NOT relaxed pampering and pandering.

    Since a corporations fiduciary obligation is the center of the corporation's universe, and all other considerations take second or even third stage (if at all!), then some other agency MUST step in to intercede to protect the system from the otherwise inevitable collapse. THAT IS THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT.

    The problem is that government panders to the corporations and gives them whatever they want, (and what they want is less legal restrictions on their ability to meet their fiduciary obligations, at the expense of all other concerns and practices) instead of busting their chops and holding their asses to the fire so they have to fly right.

    Going "But think of the poor corporations, just doing what they are forced to do by their evil share holders!" is bullshit. Instead, you should be demanding that government do its fucking job, instead of whoring itself out for career re-election dollars.

  19. Translation by Livius · · Score: 2

    Ninety senators are fine will selling out their own country.

    (Actually, I am shocked that number isn't higher.)

  20. DIVERSITY IS STRENGTH....FOR CAPITAL by mix_left_and_right · · Score: 2

    diversity is strength for Capital but diversity is weakness for Labor... now you have some clue as to why all the rich and powerful institutions are cramming diversity/multiculturalism propaganda down the throats of young impressionable white kids via the educational curriculum... white guilt instilled in young white minds manufactures consent for more mass immigration

  21. Re:it's called democracy, child by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 2

    No we won't trust you on that. We trust rational reasoned discourse, not bigoted race baiting bullshit artists.

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
  22. Look around at any Fortune 500 Company by pebear · · Score: 2

    I live between Hartford CT and Springfield MA. The insurance capital of the world. I used to be an employee of an insurance company but I can't tell you which one. I have been outsourced by a large outsourcing company and I was an employee of that company for 3 years. They brought me back as a contractor for that large outsourcing company for the last 5 years. Same job / pay no benefits. Most of the grunt work done has been sent over seas to the Sub continent. I work from home now so at least I can save on the price of gas but of course I have to heat the house when I'm home so nothing is really saved there. I challenge any of these Senators to go into any of the insurance companies in Hartford or Springfield and look around. Figure out the ratio of American citizens to foriegn workers on H1B Visas. I would guess it's almost 7 out of 10 workers are on H1B visas now. Even the contracting companies (Body Shops) don't want to hire Americans because they can pay their fellow countrymen less wages and cow them better than they can American workers. That does not take into account how much work has been sent over seas. One more question: The work sent overseas, the profits from that work done over there never ever comes back into this country because the Large outsourcing firms will just claim that it's money made over there even though they are working on infrastructure over here. There is a lot to investigate but I doubt they will. Sen. Bluemthal was already on the horn asking for more H1b Visas. The Senators know which end their bread is buttered on.

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    Paul E. Bahre
  23. Offshoring will replace H1B visas if necessary by jerel · · Score: 2

    If more controls are put in place, the work will simply move offshore. I work for a large financial institution, and they decided the best solution for technical labor was to build a large organization offshore, and these are not just call-center folks. These are highly skilled technical workers. And they are doing jobs that could easily be done here, but obviously for a lot more money. This way they avoid the overhead and headaches of H1B sponsoring altogether. Not saying it hasn't and doesn't happen in this company. But the offshore labor is a lot less expensive, and to some, that is of primary importance.

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    Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.