Google Lollipop Bricking Nexus 5 and Nexus 7 Devices

First time accepted submitter Zape (303550) writes The Lollipop update has turned sour for me and several other Nexus 7, Gen 2 (and Nexus 5) owners. It seems that I'm not alone in having my tablet boot to the Google Logo since a couple of days after updating to Android 5.0.2. Now Nexus 5 owners are reporting a reboot loop in Android 5.1. My device, like many others, is a couple of months out of warranty, but worked great until the latest OTA update from Google. They branded it, and they updated it, but Google claims it is between the buyers and ASUS, the manufacturer.

Comments

Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Seeing as lollipop was released to these devices....6 months ago? also fristy psoty

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[peragrin]

Google takes 6-9 months to release updates to their devices. It took 5 weeks for my nexus 7 to get the update.

Google should ask apple how to transmit updates to lots of users at once.

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Google knows how. They just don't want to yet.

Just because Lollipop (AOSP) was released doesn't mean all the Google spyware (oh, sorry, I mean value-added software) was ready. They have to perfect this first, and this stuff is closed source.

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

How about those carrier-less Nexus 7s, because, you know, they only carry WiFi.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[ChrisSlicks]

The whole point of the Nexus branded devices is that they are a plain vanilla version of Android directly from Google, and yes these plain vanilla versions call home directly to Google for updates. Carriers are not supposed to alter the OS at all other than the standard provisioning info. Google designed the specs for the device and then contracted each one with a manufacturer.

It takes a few weeks for the various devices to get the update as Google does a staggered release by device. Not sure on the exact order but it does seem to be somewhat by the device's original release date.

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[LifesABeach]

I'm doing OpenGL ES 3.0 development on my ASUS 2012 Nexus 7 with Android 5.0.2. It is working enough for me. But it's not tied to the likes of Verizon, or Comcast. Maybe for all the wrong reasons, I'm just lucky?

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess brattiness includes not being able to read and comprehend. Notice the words "Nexus 7". This problem is affecting many Nexus 7 owners that do not have radios, no carriers.

Oh, I see now, you got focused on replying to the jab about Google asking Apple.

Do No Evil

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[ceoyoyo]

I guess that's why he suggested Google ask Apple how they handle it. The article is specifically talking about Google branded phones (which are only available from Google, not through carriers, no?), not Samsungs running Android or something. If you get an iPhone from AT&T, Vodaphone or Ethiopia Tel, Apple takes responsibility for updates to that phone. They absolutely can "go on to the Verizon/T-mobile/AT&T/Sprint network and update your phone. It's called the Internet. It's a good system that works well.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Oddly enough Apple has no problem with my iPhone purchased from Verizon...
 
Either you're being dumb or you're trying to be clever. Either way, you failed it.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[fustakrakich]

It's called the Internet. It's a good system that works well.

*Well, sometimes the magic works. Sometimes, it doesn't...*

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[KGIII]

That is what I was thinking. This isn't a Google issue, they most certainly did NOT perform the OTA update. They provide vendors (and probably manufacturers) with the update. They are then supposed to vet the update, ensure all is well, and then do an OTA update. The issue really has (and I'm not trying to make excuses here) nothing whatsoever with Google. Google did their part completely and should not be subject to the blame. The blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the vendor.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[PopeRatzo]

Google should ask apple how to transmit updates to lots of users at once

I would rather Google ask users if they really want to download an update that's going to completely screw up their tablet.

The first Lollipop update made my Nexus 7 unusable until I turned off a lot of the services that made the Nexus 7 useful to begin with. Every subsequent update has made things a little bit worse. At the moment, my Nexus 7 is barely usable as a media player, and only because I've had to learn more about hidden settings and turning off services than I ever wanted to.

I loved my Nexus 7 just the way it was. If you're going to push out an OS update, please first make sure to do no harm.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait... Google provides your cellphone directly?

Yes. I bought it from play.google.com. When I called for warranty repair, I called Google.

You know... because Google can't just go on to the Verizon/T-Mobile/AT&T/Sprint network and update everyone's phone. The provider provides the specific Android build.

No, they don't. You can get the android build for a nexus phone directly from Google's website. And for the Nexus 5 and Nexus 6, it's carrier agnostic; there's 1 ROM for domestic carriers. The last Nexus phone with branding was the Galaxy Nexus and everyone got updates quickly except those on Verizon. There's a reason the Nexus 5 supports AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile but not Verizon.

And that's why they can't update all the devices at once.

Apple has been updating their devices independently of the carriers for years. There's no reason Google has to do OTA through the carrier.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[silas_moeckel]

I own many nexus devices, the phones all bought directly from google (about have the price of buying them from my carrier). Current gen I can put a sim in and work on every major us carrier CMDA or GSM with one phone. Hell my carrier (ting) is working on phones that are on the GSM and CDMA networks and roam freely between them. The radio does get updates from the carrier PRL updates and the like.

Google figured out that the carriers were a barrier so they went around them.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously he's talking about Nexus branded devices, that's what his comment said. Are you talking about Nexus devices, or android in general?

I've owned every Nexus phone since the Galaxy Nexus. My Galaxy Nexus was Docomo branded and had no carrier supplied software. Since then I've purchased directly from Google and haven't had any carrier supplied software in an OTA. This is obviously not the case for a phone like the Moto X, but the conversation is about Nexus products, not any other android devices.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Ramze]

Not sure why you're confused. The post clearly begins with "The whole point of the Nexus branded devices." Yes, this is true for Nexus branded hardware. It's Google's Android OS with no carrier bloatware. The updates come straight from Google. I own a Nexus 7 2013. I've updated many times - comes straight from Google.

Here's the link on Google's support site to confirm it: Click on the "Nexus Devices" to expand to see the below text.

https://support.google.com/nex...

Nexus 4, Nexus 5, Nexus 6, Nexus 7, Nexus 9, and Nexus 10 devices receive the latest version of Android directly from Google. Once an update is available, it can take up to two weeks for it to reach your device. Based on your carrier, it may take longer than two weeks after release to get an update.

Nexus devices may not receive the latest version of Android if they fall outside of the update window, which is usually around 18 months after a device has been released.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

How about all those updates also come with millions of glitches, with which Apple has a long history. That's why every week or month, there's a NEW update by Apple. And even with those updates there's a screw up :)

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Cley Faye]

Wait... Google provides your cellphone directly? How did you get on their corporate plan?

Seeing that google sells phones on Google Play, don't give a crap about what carrier you have, and these phones works, I'd say your sarcasm is seriously misplaced.

Or are you talking about those Nexuses that are provided by a different carrier, and as such that carrier retains the right to do whatever they want to the OSS Android underneath?

If you believe that there only exist phones with carrier-specific/altered OS, you're the perfect client for them. All the crap they keep doing to phones (locking them on specific networks, adding crapware, removing legitimate options/tools) is totally irrelevant regarding the ability to use a mobile phone...

You know... because Google can't just go on to the Verizon/T-Mobile/AT&T/Sprint network and update everyone's phone. The provider provides the specific Android build.

Let's look at the Nexus5. Google produce a firmware, google put said firmware on their servers, the phone connect to these servers, and get the update. At what point exactly is the carrier doing anything, beside *maybe* providing the data connection (supposing you're not on wifi when the phone checks his updates)?
Same thing for phones from other manufacturer; Samsung handle updates of their devices, LG does the same, etc.
Carrier are only concerned when they sell severly modified version of the OS, where they take pride to redirect the update lookup to their servers, and only provide updates really late (if at all).

And that's why they can't update all the devices at once. Because everyone and their mother can develop their own kernel, and their own Android for their platform.

Now, if everyone just ran AOSP, then Google would be fine to update everyone at the same time.

Quite the contrary. Google provides OTA updates progressively, probably to limit the impact of large unknown bugs. A friend got a notification way before me about his Nexus 5 getting an update. Still, if you want to update before you get the notification, you're free to do it with the exact same image provided online. The latency here is voluntary, and don't have much to do with carrier.
And about AOSP; even if everyone where using it, Google couldn't do squat about updating every devices at once *especially* because the kernel is the only thing that have to be device specific. Sure, the fact that some manufacturer likes to add their own UI and crap is also an issue, but you can't just put AOSP on any phone, you have to have a working kernel for it.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

unless you are speaking of JUST the Nexus branded device (your comment is tough to determine your intent)

You're right. His opening of "The whole point of the Nexus branded devices is..." totally indecipherable.

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[DigitAl56K]

Wrong. Many people, including myself, bought their device directly from Google, and Google themselves create and release the updates for these devices. You can install factory images directly from Google or wait for the over-thr-air updates.

I believe there are also carriers modified versions. For example, I think T-Mo has Nexus devices with proprietary WiFi calling added. In those cases then yes, the carrier must manage the update. Nexus program guidelines suggest how quickly carriers must release such updates.

Nevertheless, many people are on the Google-direct update train.

Google are really hit and miss with updates. They don't offer pre-releases to enthusiasts like they ought to (a pre-5.0 build was an exception and that's only because they were changing the runtime out and literally had to do it for dev support). They announce releases then don't roll them out to their most popular devices for weeks/months, and they release fix versions that don't address some of the worst bugs.

I like Android but my biggest gripe is not being in control of my own updates. When Apple announces a new OS everyone can get it. When Google announces a new OS you better pray you can get it a month later, and that the bug fix version won't be three months behind. That's if your device manufacturer even supports the update.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

So in a topic in which Google is bricking devices, you're slagging Apple? And in such a weak way that you feel the need to exaggerate everything to the point of absurdity?

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[KGIII]

Thank you for the correction. As I read the remainder of the thread I was wondering about that aspect. I think something like that should be included in the summary so we know if it is vendor specific or if it is from Google directly. You can not turn off automatic OTA updates?

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[KGIII]

I see where I was mistaken - thank you all for the corrections. I shall now go through the comments and see what more people add and what more I can learn. That/this is why I love /. so much and have stuck around all these years. Some of you might be tough or rough but by tomorrow all is forgiven or forgotten (unless you are a continued asshole and then you get what you deserve).

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[KGIII]

I do think I like the process. All the Nexus devices I had come across prior to this were from carriers - thank you for the correction.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[KGIII]

As I've mentioned (with my foot in my mouth) the only Nexus devices I have seen where all carrier phones and when I did a quick Google prior to saying anything it looked like all of them were carrier devices. The Google ad looked like, well, a Google ad.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[KGIII]

Thank you for the correction. The "Nexus branded devices..." could just as easily mean from a carrier. My Motorola is a Motorola not a US Cellular.

HOWEVER... I was still clearly mistaken and confused. I even Googled before commenting and the results seemed to indicate that they were all carrier devices, All I did was a quick scan so even the Google link looked like a Google ad for a carrier. It was/is my mistake and I thank you, again, for the correction.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[KGIII]

Sorry for my doubting you. I've since been corrected and now have a better understanding. I Googled before I asked and, well, all the results in my quick scan looked like ads for carriers and the only Nexus devices I've seen are all carrier branded. Even in my quick Google the Google link looked like an ad for a carrier. My most sincere apologies are offered if you want them,

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Ramze]

Ah. No worries. In your defense, Google has not been very good about advertising this unique aspect of the Nexus line of products. Other than Apple, it's not exactly the norm for how devices are updated either. Still, it's unique in that, apparently, Google is pushing some of the support to the hardware manufacturers instead of handling it themselves (though I could be mistaken). I find this disheartening as it's Google's flagship name and I believe Google should handle any issues unless there's a hardware malfunction rather than a software glitch - possibly caused by Google's update.

Basically, Google chooses a specific manufacturer and works with them to develop a model that has its requirements, labels the product a "Nexus" , then supports the OS directly. They even sell Nexus items straight from Google rather than through a carrier. Nexus phones can typically switch carriers as long as the phone supports the proper tech and frequencies - same for the tablets. My Nexus 7 is made by ASUS, but I knew buying it that I'd be supported by Google - which is why I got it instead of a similar ASUS tablet with a standard USB port (Nexus products are notorious for not having expansion ports - Google thinks you should use them and the cloud for everything). I'd rather have the assurance that my hardware will be supported by the latest Android (so many manufacturers sell you a device, then don't bother updating it) than to have a few extra features.

I could be wrong, but last I checked, Nexus 5 had the proper tech to run on Verizon's network, but Verizon won't approve it - I suspect because the don't like that it's not locked down. They already hate that the iPhone doesn't have their bloatware and artificial restrictions.

But, yeah, if you see the name Nexus, that's Google's flagship product line and they'll update it first and directly while all other Android devices will take you months to get an update - if ever.

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

This again?

1) You don't need system updates for the most part anymore. Most major user-facing components are now just apps on the Play Store, so most Android devices no longer need to worry about firmware updates.

2) The HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. updates have little to do with Google's Android updates. They have their own feature set and bug fixes. For example (and I know this is an old example), but Samsung's 2.2 included copy-and-paste whereas Google introduced that in 2.3. Other obvious features are Samsung's camera filters that don't exist on stock. Samsung's GS5 Android 5.0 update already includes a bunch of bugs in 5.1, for example.

3) i device features are hit-and-miss for version upgrades. (again old example, but relevant) Even though (for example) the voice assistant was an app in the store that supported even the first-gen i devices, for some reason, the first three models got shafted. Even though they got "updates", it wasn't really "5.0" or whatever the version was at - it was "4.99999 but we'll call it 5.0 (gimped)". With Android, if you get 5.0, you get a baseline featureset (what Google releases) unless there's actual hardware missing (like an IR Blaster)

So yeah, I'd prefer Android's updates. It's not hit and miss for 90% of the devices out there because I simply don't see it the same way you do.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Most companies don't have the same fear as other companies have. It's a terrible president, but it's been made.

There was an article previously about how credit card companies opened themselves up to fraud because they didn't want to anger the beast and get kicked off the i platform (they have no recourse otherwise - they can't release an independent app on the store or their own website like they could for every other OS).

Most other companies actually use logic to determine their tech needs as well. Most I-fans in CTO/CEO/CIO positions blunt-force trauma their way through because it's "oh so good". The company I work at, for example, insisted on using i devices even though our main CRM does not work at all with it. They made some BS excuse about stability (then proceeded a few months down the road to remote wipe all of the employee's application data, necessitating some to go back to clients to reacquire information making us look like a mickey-mouse company who can't do things right)

It's just like how the 30% tax for being inside a store was set as Industry standard... They literally do nothing more than a credit card processor at a point of sale, yet take a massive cut. Unfortunately, all other companies saw this and said "hey we can do this too"... now a 5-10% paypal transaction means 20% less content for the end user. Nobody notices because companies (again) don't want to enrage Jesus (see Dropbox) or their users (by complaints that one platform is better than the other)

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

When the voice assistant came out people were having a hell of a time connecting. Regularly when updates come out for the i devices, their servers come to a crawl.

If there's also a bug that affects a lot of users (and there have been a few (recently, see breaking wifi), EVERYONE gets affected.

Google's staged rollout ensures fast speeds for everyone (and for those who are in the know, they can force a check).

So I really hope Google does *NOT* follow their lead because I've never experienced any slowdown with Google Now, nor any slowdowns with update downloads.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[BronsCon]

That's not how the Nexus line works. Nexus is vanilla Android direct from Google. Starting with Lollipop, they provide a small partition specifically for carrier apps and download the correct set of apps during initial setup, based on model and installed SIM; you can then delete the apps as they are not baked into the ROM, or, if you run the initial setup sans-SIM you get no carrier apps. It's also the reason the T-Mobile Nexus 6 doesn't (yet) have wi-fi calling while every other Android device they currently sell does.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[BronsCon]

Now unless you are speaking of JUST the Nexus branded device

The whole point of the Nexus branded devices

(your comment is tough to determine your intent)

Not for someone with reading comprehension...

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought my mom a Nexus 5 from the play store and activated her on Ting (sprint mvno) and Google pushes the updates to their Google phone directly, like you would think they would, over WiFi.

I bought a cheap Chinese Ulefone for myself, and the company pushes updates directly to me, like you'd think they would, over WiFi.

It's pretty simple really.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Pieroxy]

Google figured out that the carriers were a barrier so they went around them.

Google didn't, Apple did. Not one iPhone ever sold has ever been touched by a carrier before getting into the hands of the final user, where the vast majority of Android devices get crapped by carriers before they get sold.

Apple said: Carriers are crap, let's protect all of our phones (and thus users) from them.
Google said: Carriers are crap, we're going to provide users that care with phones that are untouched by them.

As always, Apple forced their views on everyone while Google offered a choice. I think Apple was right on this one.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[marsu_k]

Nexus 4, Nexus 5, Nexus 6, Nexus 7, Nexus 9, and Nexus 10 devices receive the latest version of Android directly from Google. Once an update is available, it can take up to two weeks for it to reach your device.

That's the theory. I got the 5.0 OTA update for my 2013 LTE Nexus 7 in mid-Februrary, some two weeks before I got 5.0 on my Z2. Now Sony had promised Lollipop in early 2015, early March is stretching it; still, I don't think that's as worse as having a Nexus device with such a ridiculously long update cycle.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[gl4ss]

google provides the builds to them... they're unlikely to want to push something that breaks things though.

besides, vast majority isn't on any verizon,tmobile/at whatever plan with their nexus7. you see, majority of people with these devices bought them and didn't rent them(like, case of poster, he bought the device from asus. but google branded it and sells it like it's a google device.).

and it's not really a secret why they don't update them all at once: they're beta testing on some regions, like poland or whatever. they fuck up updates all the time, the first updates they roll out inevitably break something.

same goes for apple though, their pushed updates regularly break things.

what is the solution? don't have auto update on. you very rarely get any benefits from updating anyways, like in case of lollipop updates.. there's nothing worthwhile in the update and it has broken several apps for many people! only update when you're doing a phone/tablet reset anyways.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Mr D from 63]

Google takes 6-9 months to release updates to their devices. It took 5 weeks for my nexus 7 to get the update.

Google should ask apple how to transmit updates to lots of users at once.

Doesn't it make sense to stagger updates, in case a problem like this occurs that didn't reveal itself in testing, so they can stop the updates?

I'm typically in no rush to get my android updates if my device is working fine, but it seems there are many that 'want it now' for some reason.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Stalks]

http://www.google.co.uk/nexus/

There is a "buy" button for direct Google sales.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[silas_moeckel]

Apple limited carrier choice for a very long time, that whole 5 year exclusive to AT&T.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

they also USED to be realistically priced(mostly) until the nexus 6 which skyrocketed $250 in price for about $30 in "upgrades"(1GB RAM, slightly higher clocked SoC o.w same as n5, higher res screen, and still no uSD slot, OK call it maybe $50 in upgrades if it's the 64GB n6).

Although to be fair, this time around I decided to skip it(not much of an upgrade TBH vs n5, which was a marginal update over n4) UNLESS it was 64b. Also TBH looking at other people's near 6" phones just getting a tad too large I think.

The strange thing about this is that Google USED to be very good about support even out of warranty OTOH they USED to be good about realistically pricing their phones as well rather than egrgegiously inflated prices for carriers such that they can make you feel like you're getting a "deal"* when you sign a multi-year contract. I also HAD been under the presumption that the ODM was out of the picture pretty much altogether from the end user point of view. i.e. they're purchased from Google, not ASUS or LG, and appear to be shipped by what I presumed was a Google contracted UPS delivery/fulfillment. Additionally I don't recall any ASUS or LG branding on my n7(2013) or n4 or n5 boxes although I believe that there is a largish ASUS on the back of the n7 and tiny print LG on the n4 & n5... oops nope wrong there is an LG on my n4 & n5 boxes, so probably an ASUS somewhere on the n7 box as well.

Yes. I purchased all of mine directly from Google as well, or as directly as you can as it would appear that they really don't have anything directly to do with selling physical goods other than handling payments and shipping info, and of course ordering the product from ODMs, since as I mentioned in the US at least it appears that UPS handles everything else from factory -> destination country "warehousing" -> local delivery.

* HINT, you're still going to pay full price to them for it one way or another.

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[fizzer06]

You're very lucky, if by "working" you mean usable without crashing the UI. Which is exactly what my Nexus did. I had to go from version 5.02 back to version 4.4.4 and now I see that version 5.1 is also something I won't use.

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[Karlt1]

Apple "limited choice" because other carriers weren't willing to allow Apple to update phones directly and wanted to put carrier crap on it. Apple went to Verizon first.

Hindsight being what it is, which was the better choice? Allowing carriers to put their own crap on the phone and to control updates or to force their hand?

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Bought the phone from google, directly, grabbed a sim card and connected to Rogers.

Remind me how anyone else controls the software on my phone EXCEPT Rogers?

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[KGIII]

I wonder if my old(ish) Motorola RAZR is like that as it was the flagship phone at the time, It is still an excellent phone and it has my favorite feature - the slide out keyboard. The size and weight are worth it to me. It is able to take a SIM card too,

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes I bought my phone and tablet directly from google I chose my provider after purchasing the phone and I have changed providers twice using the same phone. I have had crappy results on my phone and tablet since lollipop and this is the 1st time in my life that I am now considering Apple products

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone who buys from the Google play store gets their own cellular provider (or remains with an existing one), and Google provide updates for them.
Note at least in Europe if s phone is reasonably priced, it works out as well to buy the hardware and negotiate the best SIM only plan you can

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[ArcadeMan]

Google should ask Apple how to transmit updates to lots of users at once.

And without their approval, too!

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Stoutlimb]

Since Google sells these directly, they also have the purchase and delivery dates and device id's for most Nexus devices. Perhaps the delay is designed to roll out the update shortly after the warranty expires? They could easily do that... would they? It would save them a hell of a lot of support dollars.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Google does away with testing. You're the tester. So be glad you got it 5 weeks late. By then, hopefully, Google has been able to realize whether there are important issues.

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[LifesABeach]

I've got to ask the dumb question, but what did you do, routinely, that got your attention? I just only test my software on my tablet.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Ramze]

Man, those RAZRs were awesome. I'm actually looking for something similar now for my father who is just now learning to text - he has a flip phone now and a slide-out keyboard would be best. It's getting more difficult to find one that doesn't require a data plan. Verizon charges for data based on the type of phone - doesn't matter if you actually intend to use the data or not :-/

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

When did they stop asking? My Nexus 5 is still on 4.4.2, I disabled the update notifications then because I didn't want to risk "bricking" it as I've rooted and modified the OS and fixing it if it went wrong would be too much hassle. Blocking the update notification at that point was as simple as a long press on the notifcation, selecting "App info" and unchecking the box allowing notifications from that app (whichever app was responsible for providing updates).

I intend to look at custom ROMs for it soon, as I don't like the look of Lollipop and am hoping to find one that will let me change the bits I don't like.

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[Duggeek]

This may just be an isolated problem, like only happening with certain OEMs. Just saying. (Posted from my Nexus 5 by LG, running Lollipop 5.1)

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole point of the Nexus branded devices...

Now unless you are speaking of JUST the Nexus branded device...

Yo, dumbfuck, it's exactly what he said!! WTF is wrong with you: reading ability or comprehension?

God, I hate asshats who argue just for the sake of arguing!

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Just a reminder; Apple eventually launched with Cingular who was then bought by AT&T. I've always theorized that Cingular gave Apple everything they wanted as the execs knew it would be AT&T's problem.

Re:Cutting edge journalism

[BronsCon]

we're talking about bricking here

It's not like Apple has dome that recently or anything, is it?

also on this thread i learned that google's upgrade cycle is, at least de facto, 18 months

Except that the N4, released November 2012, got this update. 27 months and still supported. A damn sight better than Apple's support for the first-gen iPad paperweight I have sitting in a box, for sure. Their excuse is that the older hardware isn't capable of running the new OS; Google also used that excuse when they released Jellybean, but worked on the system requirements for KitKat so that those older devices were once again supported; Lollipop seems to be carrying on that tradition, as well.

But, of course, if hardware capability was a valid excuse for Apple to drop support for older hardware, shouldn't we allow Google to use it, as well?

Six of one, half dozen of the other, really. Decide which ecosystem you prefer and run with it. In my case, it's Android on the phone, iOS on the tablet, making me a daily user of both platforms and, therefore, qualified to compare them in this manner.

Re: Cutting edge journalism

[BronsCon]

For example, I think T-Mo has Nexus devices with proprietary WiFi calling added.

They do not. It's supposed to be coming shortly, but it will be a carrier app, not baked into the firmware. In fact, carrier apps are no longer supposed to be baked into the firmware in Lollipop (though carriers, I'm sure, are still doing this for non-Nexus devices). Instead, carrier apps are installed during the setup process, as normal apps that can be removed by the user. As a bonus, if you set up the phone without a SIM installed, it doesn't know which carrier's apps to install, so you get no carrier apps.

I like Android but my biggest gripe is not being in control of my own updates. When Apple announces a new OS everyone can get it. When Google announces a new OS you better pray you can get it a month later, and that the bug fix version won't be three months behind. That's if your device manufacturer even supports the update.

Another reason my current phone is a Nexus device.

It seems as though Google is testing the waters here, for a potential fix to this issue. Logical next steps include installing vendor binaries (launcher, lock screen, and other apps) during setup (hopefully we see this in Android M), then doing the same with drivers (requiring some basic compatibility modes in the hardware used, or some standard drivers to be included, to enable first boot and setup). At that point, Google will be able to update the OS separately from vendor and carrier apps and drivers, and vice-versa. That will be a huge benefit to users of non-Nexus devices; meanwhile, Nexus owners running Lollipop are already enjoying this.

Google updates

[Anonymous Coward]

Google updates their core services without asking to get around fragmentation. They can't bring everything into core services, but they can bring a lot. The downside is accidentally doing something like this.

Re:Google updates

[spacepimp]

If they let people upgrade their own phones this wouldn't happen

Re:Google updates

[snowgirl]

But that's the provider's problem, isn't it?

Google can't force providers to use AOSP, and unlocked bootloaders, and all that...

Re: Google updates

[Anonymous Coward]

They do. Nexus devices have unlocked bootloaders and easy root access. They are still developer phones, you know. Install your favourite ROM and enjoy (a much better experience than stock android as well, in most cases)

Re:Google updates

[postmortem]

So what would be if you buy a PC and then Microsoft won't sell you or let you update to any new version?

Re: Google updates

[Anonymous Coward]

The carriers are more akin to your ISP.

So it's like Microsoft issues an update, and publicly announces it, but you have to wait until Cuntcast approves it six months later.

Would you do that?

Re:Google updates

[Cley Faye]

Stop joking, this is coming to us really soon. MS-locked bootloader, that is.

Re:Google updates

[Anonymous Coward]

But that's the provider's problem, isn't it?

Google can't force providers to use AOSP, and unlocked bootloaders, and all that...

Obvious troll is... Anyway, as has been mentioned several times, these are non-carrier branded google devices.

Re:Google updates

[thsths]

Yes, they could update the core services, and they could fix bugs quickly, but they don't.

There are quite a few battery drain bugs still in the core services, especially in the location service. It is embarrassing.

But not surprising. Core services were never about faster upgrades or better Android, but about control. Once apps rely on core services, they can no longer run on a plain Android device with the Google apps. Android is getting more and more closed.

Re:Google updates

[squiggleslash]

They can force manufacturers to use unlocked bootloaders if they want the official Google version. Microsoft (ironically they're changing this for Windows 10) requires manufacturers use unlocked firmware implementations for machines running the Intel version of Windows on UEFI machines.

There's no reason whatsoever why Google can't make the same thing a requirement beyond being scared manufacturers wouldn't go for it and would prefer shipping a version of Android with no Google services over shipping a device with a bootloader that's open.

Re:Google updates

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop joking, this is coming to us really soon. MS-locked bootloader, that is.

And subscription only software, all the assholes are doing it now.

Re:Google updates

[jgotts]

Fused Location is absurd. I have an unrooted phone that was upgraded to, but did not come with, Android 4.3.

Using the program CPU Memory Monitor, Fused Location right now is at 48 CPU minutes. Google+ is legitimately at 59 CPU minutes because it's backing up a bunch of photos and videos I took last night. The next highest process is at 5 CPU minutes. Except for this unusual workload, Fused Location almost always consumes many times the amount of CPU time as the next process.

I think Google has great ideas but their programmers are not very good at testing: Too much theory, not enough practice.

To my knowledge there will never be an update for my phone, a non-LTE Samsung Galaxy S III. Even with the massive battery drain of Fused Location, the phone works great. It would be an amazing device if Fused Location was fixed, or if there was some way I could disable it. Rooting my primary communications device is not something that I would do, but your comment seems to indicate that wouldn't do any good.

Re:Google updates

[Anonymous Coward]

they can no longer run on a plain Android device with the Google apps.

Did you mean "without", there? I thought Core services were part of the Google apps package.

And I do actually think it is a bit of both (for control and quicker updates), it doesn't have to be one or the other. When their core services are an essential part of the OS (as far as most users are concerned) it means OEMs have to license the Google Apps package and not use a forked version of Android, but as a bonus for Google it means they can more frequently add new OS features they want without waiting for OEMs and/or carriers to roll out OS updates.

Re:Google updates

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you expect when you buy a phone from an advertising company?

Re: Google updates

[perryizgr8]

Nexus devices have unlocked bootloaders

Nope. But unlocking it is easy and does not void your warranty.

Re:Google updates

[snowgirl]

They can force manufacturers to use unlocked bootloaders if they want the official Google version.

But hardly anyone is running the stock Android anyways. They've all expended on the code, and made it different. Almost no one actually uses the "official Google version" at all...

There's no reason whatsoever why Google can't make the same thing a requirement

But they can't because it's open source software. No one could make all of the Linux Distros use the same official kernel... it's not possible, because it's open source, and you can make it yourself.

and would prefer shipping a version of Android with no Google services

But this is already the case. Amazon and Barnes and Noble do not sell Android devices with Google services on them.

I don't get why people have such a difficult time understanding that Google can't wrangle these cats, because it doesn't have an Iron Fist on the source code...

not bricking but breaking

[Anonymous Coward]

My Nexus 7 is unresponsive since upgrade to 5.x (tried all as they came). I can't even downgrade, adb won't find the device (all USB modes, drivers tested). The only hope i sCyanogenMod. I think they should make an official downgrade available.

Re: not bricking but breaking

[Anonymous Coward]

Ditto my n7 2012 is unusably slow. Things take minutes to start or react. can't wait to go back to 4.4.4...

Re: not bricking but breaking

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, my n7 2012 is working pretty well... once I disabled most of the sync options and assorted cruft.

Re:not bricking but breaking

[jarfil]

You don't use adb to downgrade, you use fastboot. Are you sure you know how the flashing stuff works?
Anyway, if you have the multi-mode drivers installed, you may need to switch your usb cable to a different usb port on your pc for the drivers to recognize it in the right mode.

Re: not bricking but breaking

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, I had this exact problem with my Nexus 7, but running this procedure fixed it. Apparently the 4.x cache has problems with 5.x, so you have to wipe it.

http://9to5google.com/2014/11/19/2012-edition-nexus-7-running-slow-after-installing-lollipop-this-might-help/

Re:not bricking but breaking

[Anonymous Coward]

Been flashing custom roms on various Nexus devices for years. Haven't been able to break one bad enough that flashing a factory image couldn't fix.
Fastboot is your friend, the term "brick" is way over used... Like you said, I think they need to read up on flashing.

Re: not bricking but breaking

[PopeRatzo]

can't wait to go back to 4.4.4...

That's easier said than done. If only there was a simple "restore to previous OS" function. It's a hassle to go through all the steps to do a hard reset, lose all the data and roll back to an older OS.

Re:not bricking but breaking

[Anonymous Coward]

Bricked tablets can be recovered through ... wait for it... recovery mode! (fastboot) Grab the relevant version from https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images

You know about CyanogenMod, so you should know how to flash ROMs... (they don't use ADB). If not, just hit up XDA and you'll have step by step instructions.

Re: not bricking but breaking

[Anonymous Coward]

There is. Just go to the factory images and flash JUST the system partition.

Re: not bricking but breaking

[Anonymous Coward]

The 5.02 bricking is on the 2013 version. The other issues are something else.

Re:not bricking but breaking

[X0563511]

Bring it to the bootloader, and use fastboot from the SDK. You can flash disk images this way (which you can get here, if you're well and truly stuck)

Re: not bricking but breaking

[perryizgr8]

Yup, same here. It's so slow in fact that I have turned it off and kept it away.

Not Brick

[srwood]

Boot Loop does not equal brick.

Re:Not Brick

[The MAZZTer]

I believe any attempt to reflash does not fix the boot loop. So it does appear to be a brick.

Re: Not Brick

[Zape]

as the article states, nexus 7s are bricked, nexus 5s are in a boot loop. You'll find a lot of Twitter activity under #nexus7bricked.

Re:Not Brick

[Anonymous Coward]

Well they already bricked the first generation Nexus 7. I bought two of them shortly after they were released and about a year and a half later they both abruptly stopped being able to charge. Changed cables, changed power adapters and changed batteries with no result. They just refuse to charge.

Re:Not Brick

[jarfil]

Have you tried changing the usb connector? It's a known failure in the Nexus 7 2012, that after some time the connector becomes loose and won't make contact. You can find replacements on ebay from $3 (need to solder) to $12 (no soldering required), or you can do what I did: carefully pry the metal of the connector so it becomes a bit tighter.

Re:Not Brick

[PincushionMan]

Not always. Sometimes when a flash happens, the manufacturer blows some e-Fuses to prevent the device from being downgraded. I've heard of it happening on some Samsung phones, specifically one of the JellyBean versions (4.1 to 4.2 or 4.2 to 4.3). From what I recall it was the 4.1 bootloader that could no longer be used, and you had to know the exact baseband you were on to get a proper bootloader to restore your phone with Odin. From what I recall, Odin is an internal Samsung program for repairing phones and tabs in a bootloop. Is there something akin to Odin for Nexus devices?

Phone flashers generally know to:

1. 1) backup phone before upgrade
2. 2) flash phone - generally from recovery on SD card, also sometimes from USB when SD slots are unavailable
3. 3) boot to recovery and wipe cache and system/dalvik

I don't fully understand the OTA upgrade, but you'd think the thing would do the last two bits above itself.

Can anyone confirm if the Nexus OTA upgrade blows some eFuses to prevent downgrade?

Re:Not Brick

[KGIII]

I don't trust or use eBay so I can not speak for them nor their pricing. I do use Amazon a lot. Okay, so I use Amazon way too much. Anyhow, when it comes to cables my first stop is here: https://www.cablesdirect.com/d... as they usually have good/great pricing on the cable(s) I require. They have great customer service where you can call them up and say, "So I have this funny looking cable with 18 pins and...." and they are great at helping you out. I am not affiliated but I am a fan and certainly recommend them - more so when they're non-standard cables. My spool didn't quite have enough left in it so I called them and they made me a 100' CAT6 for a very excellent price. I am not sure if the pricing was standard or if they cut me a deal because I have placed a lot of orders over the years and they know me by name from having just called in to get a cable name or whatnot. I've spent a good deal of money there over the years. The price has been right and the service has been unbeatable. There has yet to be a cable, and I have had some rarities, that they have not been able to find for me, Not all products are on the site, an example is I wanted a VIC20 power supply cable and it, obviously, was no longer on the site but they had a few in stock in the back room. They had three left, I bought all three. So, as I said, I am not affiliated but I am a very happy customer.

Re:Not Brick

[Cley Faye]

Can't tell about the Nexus 7, but on the Nexus 4 and 5 I've been going back and forth between the "stock" bootloader (from different Android versions) and more exotic ones. I very much doubt that they actually lock the user out of that.

Re:Not Brick

[AaronW]

I had this problem and after trying several things I finally found a solution: Buy an Anker USB cable. I tried just about everything else with my tablet. I have a USB power meter. The Nexus 7 2012 seems to be extremely sensitive to the resistance in the USB cable. The Anker cable is much fatter than most cables I've tried. Before I switched to this cable I've had my tablet go dead while plugged into the charger.

Here's what else I tried:
I replaced the USB connector on my tablet (fairly easy to do). This helped but I still had problems.
I tried numerous chargers including the Anker charger, which helped but didn't solve the problem.
I tried many different USB cables. Some would help briefly but none ever charged quickly, the best one was the stock one that came with the tablet, but even that didn't work too well.

Once I switched to the Anker cable I was able to charge at over 1A for the first time. None of the other cables came close and I tried a lot of cables, including the Amazon Basics cables (which are otherwise nice cables).

Re:Not Brick

[Anonymous Coward]

I had thought about that, but wasn't excited about the idea of soldering surface mount sized components. If there is a solderless option, like a daughter card sort of arrangement, I could certainly do that.

Thanks for the info, I'll see if I can find a suitable part.

Re:Not Brick

[DocHoncho]

You can buy a replacement board, it takes like 5 minutes to pry the case open, remove a few screws, pull out a couple of ribbon cables and slap the new charging/headphone board in. I've had to do it twice now, on a pair of Nexus 7 2012's I got for my daughters. Of course, there's a good chance the replacement boards are getting the same problem...

I had the same problem

[hawguy]

My Nexus 5 went into a reboot loop, after a lot of research online (and taking the phone apart to see if the power switch was damaged (it appeared to be working fine with a good "click" when pressed) -- I managed to get to boot by repeatedly and rapidly hitting the power button while it was booting, then quickly unlocked the phone and rebooted into safe mode by holding down the power button.

After it booted into safe mode, I left it in the charger overnight, and in the morning, rebooted back into normal mode and it was fine. Mostly. It was no longer in the reboot loop, but kept powering itself off throughout the day.

I replaced it with a new phone, moved my SIM over, and then the Nexus appeared to be fine, no more poweroffs, no reboot loops, I used it as a Wifi-only tablet for a day and then it got a Lolipop 5.1 OTA upgrade, so I upgraded. It's been over a week since then, and it's still working fine as a wifi-only tablet, I haven't tried moving the SIM back

I still have no idea what was wrong with the phone, maybe it was a hardware problem with the switch, or maybe it was a software problem. My Nexus 7 tablet (also running lollipop) is fine.

I replaced my Nexus 5 with a Samsung Galaxy S5 -- I really like the S5 (and removable SIM), but I hate Samsung's Touchwiz interface. I really wanted to stick with the Nexus line, but am not willing to pay $700 for a 64GB Nexus 6 when the S5 cost about half that and I wasn't going to buy another Nexus 5 after what happened to this one.

Re:I had the same problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Same thing happened to me as well. It kept rebooting and eventually it just didn't want to turn on anymore. If I plugged it into the charger, it would turn on and then shut off. Hitting it a few times in the power button area enabled it to get farther into the boot process but eventually shut back off. Then I was reading that it was related to the power button. I opened it up, messed around with the power button and then eventually the phone stopped rebooting and I was able to take my data off of it. The weird thing is that it had to "upgrade" all my applications as if I had received an OTA, but I remember that I updated my phone to 5.1 way before that so that step shouldn't have come up. The phone was also extremely slow.

After that I just bought a Nexus 6 and sent off the Nexus 5 to a repair shop so they can replace the button and now my father's been using it .. seems to be working fine. I don't know if this was hardware or software (It was 2 years old - happened a week ago).

Re:I had the same problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny. What you're describing happened to my Samsung, so I switched to a Nexus 5. I opened the Samsung Gallaxy and had to replace a switch.

I guess all phones are built cheaply these days.

I am having countless software issues with Lollipop though on my Nexus. Android OS'es are released to Nexus devices fastest, so they get the short end of the stick. My Nexus 7 (2012) tablet lags so much that I consider it bricked after the Lollipop update. It takes 3+ seconds to unlock the screen.

Re:I had the same problem

[xyzzyman]

It is the power switch. Started happening with mine and confirmed it on the Nexus 5 subreddit. Entire thread dedicated to it. There's two different width power switches they've used and it's happening on both. It's in a very tough spot to solder a new one on so around here none of the cell phone repair places would do it for me. Now I just use a program called "gravity" that lets me turn wake it up with a swipe of my finger across the proximity sensor, and a flick of the phone itself to put it to sleep.

Re:I had the same problem

[sremick]

I replaced my Nexus 5 with a Samsung Galaxy S5 -- I really like the S5 (and removable SIM), but I hate Samsung's Touchwiz interface.

Which is one of the reasons I bought a T-Mobile S5 even though I'm on AT&T. Unlocked it, rooted it, installed Lollipop months before AT&T or T-Mobile released it. Been happy ever since.

I only had to suffer through Touchwiz and bloatware for a few days.

Re:I had the same problem

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know you CAN get rid of the touchwiz interface, right?

Re:I had the same problem

[Anonymous Coward]

This happened to my N4 too - I get the feeling that to hit those price points hardware quality really got compromised

Re:I had the same problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Ease of use. That's fucking awesome.

Re:I had the same problem

[ccole8]

Same thing happened to my nexus 5. Constant reboot loop. I sent it in for repair, and they replaced the entire outer housing. It seemed to be fine after that, but I didn't keep it long enough to really find out. After 3 Android phones dying too soon because of similarly weird things, I'm out of Google land.

LG

[Anonymous Coward]

Asus doesn't make the Nexus 4 or 5, it's LG. Also, it's not the mfg's software, it's Googles.

Android 5.1 fucked up my Nexus 5's camera.

[Anonymous Coward]

Android 5.1 has fucked up how the camera works on my Nexus 5. Any app I use that uses the camera will end up locking up pretty frequently, and this in turn prevents any camera-using app from accessing the camera until the phone is rebooted! The apps bitch about being unable to connect to the camera or some shit like that. I know I'm not alone, either. There's a bug report about the various camera problems than Android 5.1 has apparently caused. The sad part is that the devs from Google apparently don't have a fucking clue what's going on, and apparently can't reproduce this problem, although over 100 users have described running into very similar problems.

I regret upgrading to Android 5.1. My phone was working pretty well with Android 5.0.1. So I thought 5.1 would just be a relatively minor upgrade. No fucking way! Now I can't take more than a few pictures at a time without my goddamn phone needing to be rebooted. I wish Google spent less time and effort on eye candy and shit like that, and more effort on just making the fucking basic functionality of a modern smart phone work reliably.

Re:Android 5.1 fucked up my Nexus 5's camera.

[PincushionMan]

This also happened to Samsung S3 phones on CyanogenMod. CM11 M12 (KitKat 4.4.4). They say the nightlies will fix it, but work on the milestones has stopped completely because everyone is working on L. GPS is utterly ruined, too, but according to developers, it didn't work on the stock ROM, either.

Re:Android 5.1 fucked up my Nexus 5's camera.

[eWarz]

FYI, the GPS issue is actually a hardware one, and easily fixable by tightening the screws on the S3. I didn't believe this at first, but I was shocked when it fixed things. GPS worked perfectly on my S3 (replaced it with an HTC One M8 recently due to a faulty power switch; the M8 runs Lollipop GPe...couldn't be happier).

Re:Android 5.1 fucked up my Nexus 5's camera.

[perryizgr8]

Not a big loss since Nexus 5 camera was always shit. Since you knew that and still bought it means you don't really care about picture-taking abilities. So it is a little disingenuous to whine about it now.

This doesn't match my experience.

[mellon]

5.0.1 totally killed the battery in my Nexus 5, but I replaced it (thanks, Amazon for the battery and iFixit for the spudgers) and stuck with 4.4.4 until 5.1 came out. I'm running 5.1 now with no issues. I'm not saying that there are no problems, but this is probably a configuration-dependent issue, so a factory reset ought to fix it.

Re:This doesn't match my experience.

[Anonymous Coward]

Google quality. When a software update actually causes you to have to replace hardware.

Re:This doesn't match my experience.

[mellon]

Is there some sense in which this comment is meaningful or useful?

Re:This doesn't match my experience.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, don't buy hardware with Google or ASUS's name on it because they are absolute crap.

Make no mistake here

[Anonymous Coward]

this is NOT between the buyers and Asus, it is entirely between the buyers and Google, whose software have now broken devices that were fully working.

This opens a door for Ubuntu Touch

[jmd]

Pass on Google and give Ubuntu Touch a shot:

https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/devices/

Re:This opens a door for Ubuntu Touch

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank god that Ubuntu doesn't screw things up

Re:This opens a door for Ubuntu Touch

[Anonymous Coward]

lol, ios can't even multitask or copy and paste.

Must be only Yanks

[Anonymous Coward]

I updated my Canadian Nexus 7 & Nexus 5 to the latest and no problem.

lollipop sucks you

[jep77]

1. Can't connect to camera error often.
2. Play Music simply won't play music.
These are new on my Nexus 5 on 5.1.
And the one issue I hoped 5.1 would fix:
3. Play Music skipping on Bluetooth
Didn't go away.

This lollipop sucks.

Re:lollipop sucks you

[perryizgr8]

Lollipop is perfectly fine on my SGS4. It's much faster, totally lag-free, full of nice animations and new shiny UI. I think it's the shitty hardware that's the problem with the Nexus devices.

Google not a user experience company...

[Anonymous Coward]

Google makes money by collecting information on its users and using it to target advertisements.

They are lacking in the development an enjoyable user experience and ease of use, but given that they have such extensive collections of user data, switching services is difficult. It will take more blunders, but when users leave, it will happen fast, and they will not return.

That said, I've had issues with Nexus updates as well. When I updated my original Nexus 7 (2012) using the Google Update, it brought the entire OS to a useless crawl. It took 3+ seconds for the screen to respond to entries to unlock the screen. Numerous other users have had this problem. **Whenever a question is posted to The Nexus Product Forum related to this issue, the moderator would **delete** the question after one or two other users reply stating similar problems**

I want another viable smartphone OS. I'm hoping for one (notably Tizen), to enter the market soon. Tizen is open source, backed by various companies, etc. etc. Apps such as Facebook don't, to my knowledge, exist. This will be a problem.

https://www.tizen.org/

Re:Google not a user experience company...

[SternisheFan]

I've read online (no personal experience) that if your Android device runs slowly after updating you should reset the device (after backing up any personal information that's on it). This tactic seems to work for most devices that have slowed after updating. PITA to have to do, though.

Here's what I dont get

[Anonymous Coward]

How the F do you brick an android device? Especially the Google flagship devices which, I am told, are more "open" (easier to unlock the bootloader and install roms) than the rest?

I have a moto g and have messed it up real bad by installing several cyanogen nightlies, but I never managed to brick it outright.

I must be doing something wrong.

Re: Here's what I dont get

[Anonymous Coward]

ASUS replaced the mainboard on mine for this. Nexus 7 2013 version. I think there are various different issues being confused here.

In the case I and a number of others encountered, the device suddenly powers off at some point after the OS update. Then is unable to boot. Can't boot into any troubleshooting modes either, stuck on Google screen. ASUS know it's something related to lollipop.

Newsflash

[Anonymous Coward]

Google still sucks at everything they do. Story at 11.

I haven't heard of this; am not affected

[Tumbleweed]

I have a Nexus 5, with Lollipop 5.1 on it. No boot loop issues. Coworkers with Nexus 5 aren't reporting this, either. /shrug/

Re:I haven't heard of this; am not affected

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks Sir IT drone. Your small sample size must prove that none of us have this issue. To the Google defense mobile!

Now I just wish someone would fix my 5 :(

Re:I haven't heard of this; am not affected

[Cederic]

Look you twat, there is post after post of people bitching that they have issues. One person points out that he's been fine, and you lay into him?

He didn't say that nobody had the issue, he's highlighting that not everybody has the issue.

Fix your own fucking Nexus 5.

Re:I haven't heard of this; am not affected

[jareth-0205]

Not a hugely useful comment... Yes of course it isn't bricking every unit, but if it's causing such a serious problem on even 1%, this is a fuck up.

Re:I haven't heard of this; am not affected

[Anonymous Coward]

Having a bad day, Cederic?

What a pity.

Re:I haven't heard of this; am not affected

[Anonymous Coward]

It's because his comment was utterly stupid and does nothing to help with the problem. It's like those idiots who respond to questions with "I don't know". Well if you don't fucking know, then keep your mouth shut. Saying you don't know or that "everything is awesome" is more than worthless.

KitKat

[BobSwi]

I took all of 2 hours, having never flashed a ROM before, to get back to stock rooted kit-kat on my Nexus 5.

The fix

[Anonymous Coward]

I encountered this on my google nexus 5. Clearing the cache and data partitions in recovery mode allowed me to boot.

Something odd here

[stox]

The current version on a 2012 Nexus 7 is 5.2. 5.0 was months ago.

Re:Something odd here

[mlheur]

I'm not sure you have your facts straight.

https://source.android.com/sou...
Code name Version API level
Lollipop 5.1 API level 22
Lollipop 5.0 API level 21
KitKat 4.4 - 4.4.4 API level 19
Jelly Bean 4.3.x API level 18

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...
Latest release 5.1 "Lollipop" / March 10, 2015; 32 days ago

Sam not Sung

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they used java, its a dud again. If they had used lisp then the whole thing wouldn't have happened and they could have used a recursive tail call function to do it as well. If anything had of happened they could of rolled it back using emacs. Why wouldnt everyone program in lisp then. hey. ponk.

Solution: Stay off the bleeding edge

[mlheur]

I have a hard and fast rule at work: unless it's a real lab device, never ever ever install anything that has been out less than 6 months and is not on its 3rd patch.

It doesn't matter how much a customer wants (read: is willing to pay for) a feature that's out in the next release, if the product version is X.0 or even X.4.0 - if the last number is a not a 3 - I'm not installing it unless I've had it in the lab for 6 months and have thrown everything I can think of at it, including production size load & stress testing. Normally when they find out how much that lab costs they back down. The lab I have cannot provide a production sized load so its basically useless beyond functioning as a classroom for new features.

I have a Nexus 7 (tilapia) and it got Android 4.4.4 loaded in January. It's actually ParanoidAndroid 4.6 beta 6, which I read as 4.6.6. That beta was released on Nov 3rd, it was the 6th patch so I only waited 3 months. Before that I was running their stable release 4.45, which I installed 1 month after its release. Before that I was stock.

Re:Solution: Stay off the bleeding edge

[mlheur]

^^ - if the last number is not a 3 or greater -

for all the pedants out there, like me.

Re:Solution: Stay off the bleeding edge

[Cederic]

Wait? Don't go with anything under patch 3 - so basically refusing to ever update to software that works first time, or need just a single patch.

That's bloody stupid to start with. But then you admit that you're using beta software.

You have no clue. You're inept. You're stupid. You're fucking scaring me. How is it possible to be that fucking incompetent?

Re:Solution: Stay off the bleeding edge

[KevReedUK]

Reading comprehension 101:

He said "never ever install anything that has been out less than 6 months and is not on its third patch.

In other words, he'll use things at patch levels less than 3, but only once they've been in the wild for 6 months or more and hence any bugs are likely to have been identified and resolved in one of the patches (even if that patch has a number less than 3!).

Re:Solution: Stay off the bleeding edge

[mlheur]

Perhaps my language did not clearly convey reality. Let me provide an example. Version X is released on Jan 1. Probably will not ever be installed (see below). Version X.1 is released on Mar 1, might get installed, but not before Nov; for this example let's assume that patches keep coming. X.1.2 comes out May 1 - still not installing it, yet. Jul 1 comes around, if the features in X are absolutely required, and we've had it in the lab, and the customer acknowledges that we are not responsible should the product not perform as documented, we'll install it. Again, let's assume it's a no-go. Sep 1: X.1.3 comes out, we'll aim to install it in November, along with any patches and hotfixes listed in the latest release notes. Bottom line, major release X comes out in January, we'll probably not be running it before November.

Prime example, Windows 2012 began rollout on production servers in January 2015 and we'll have >2000 installs by the end of June. My job is to make sure we never have more than 24 hours data loss on any system, can't do that unless I'm sure the product performs as advertised. In my line of work, there's nothing worse than being told every job/transaction completes successfully but it turns out the data is unusable or empty.

For most of the software I use, a major release X is two digits, such as 5.2, 5.3, and 5.4 or 7, 7.1, 7.5 and 7.6 - each is a major release in its own right, so I'm dealing with 7.6.0.4 or 5.4.5. We're finding that, where in the past the product usually went GA as 7.1.0 with a few hotfixes for corner cases, 7.6 didn't go GA until 7.6.0.1, and the vendor is recommending to skip straight to 7.6.1. When it came time to install 7.5, you needed to install the 7.5.0.4 patch before starting the application. Another example, 5.5.0 isn't GA yet and they're up to 5.5.0.9. One of my colleagues in a different business unit installed RA 5.5.0.4 at the vendor's direction for case resolution, and he was hit by a bug that caused a complete filesystem panic and 18 hour service outage.

below:
Now, to put some real world application to your original statement... Can you name any major release of commercial software that needed 0 or 1 patches? Anything from Microsoft, Apple, any Linux or BSD distribution, Solaris, AIX, HP-UX? Anything from NetApp, EMC, Cisco, Brocade, SAP, CA, Google, Symantec, Mozilla, VMWare, CommVault, Oracle, IBM, McAfee, MySQL, Sybase, Apache? These are the major vendors I deal with. The reality is that software products have become so complex that the vendor cannot test every use case before releasing the product, and invariably GA releases are getting buggier and buggier.

My leadership team fully supports my position - and I wasn't even the one to come up with it. I just live(work) by it. Maybe the leadership team of one of the world's top 100 sustainable corporations are all "fucking incompetent", but I think you're the outlier in this case.

About beta....
My hard and fast rule is at work, not at home. Yes I used beta software on a personal device that is not used for any primary function. It's not my only tablet and its far from being my only computing device. There is nothing unique on it, I have good, complete, tested backups both locally and off-device, and I thoroughly studied and understood the roll-back process before starting the install. I had relegated that device to lab/disposable status when I did the install. That said, the beta label from PA isn't the same as beta for other products, i.e. Windows. Once PA makes a stable release, that's it, they're not updating that branch ever again and have moved on to other Android releases. Windows OTOH, once the product goes GA, they keep patching it.

Two Years

[eric31415927]

My first generation Nexus 7 died after two years.
Maybe they are designed to last only two years.
I took it apart, pierced its storage chip with a screwdriver, put it back together, and recycled it.
Maybe its on a barge to a third-world country now.

Similar experience with Nexus 4 and Android 4.3

[Uncle_Meataxe]

After installing the OTA update from 4.2.2 > 4.3 (August 2013), my Nexus 4 wouldn't boot. A quick scan of the interwebs found that lots of people had the same problem. I could load Cyanogenmod (based on 4.2.2) or the stock Google 4.2.2 image but other attempts to load 4.3 did not work. Eventually, I shipped back to Google and they gave me a new phone.

Just started today

[barlevg]

My 2012 N7 (running Android Version 5.1) is shutting itself down randomly, within a few minutes of booting. Boots up fine, and it appears to only power off when it's asleep (screen is off). I *knew* i should have stayed on Jelly Bean, but I was just so damn sick of seeing that "update is available" notification come up every. five. seconds. This may push me to put Cyanogenmod on it, which is something I've been meaning to do for a while anyway.

Re:Just started today

[barlevg]

Erm, Kit Kat, not Jelly Bean.

I love my KitKat

[Anonymous Coward]

4.4.4. Best Android EVER.

So keep your Lolli-poop well out of my sight

Exactly why I locked Google OTA out of my Nexus 5

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspected as much.. the quality of OTA were getting mroe and more unstable.

I finally had enough and reverted to KitKat 4.4.4 and locked the OTA updates out and turned off Google Play notifications.

They really don't care about older devices and do not Test their software against them.

They have a broken development and update model.. Google turned Evil a while ago now.

Can confirm

[Anonymous Coward]

After a month on 5.0.2 being more unstable my Nexus 7, 2013 WiFi got the google screen lock... Booted to flashboot mode but would not flash image. Had to replace the motherboard. Heard of two other cases from colleagues... Didn't believe it till it happened to me. Too much of a coincidence.

I think the memory chips or some other part got pushed beyond its tolerance. Probably too much optimization gone wrong. Somehow google is not that good at software development on hardware that is used at the limit or they pissed ASUS and did not have any testing from the hardware side... Just a guess...

Really unhappy...

When iOS8 bricked my iPhone4S

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody gave a fuck. Welcome to the club of its your fault that you installed an untested update and neither Apple or Google customer care will admit that it is really their fault for bricking a device in perfect working order. What do consumer laws say when such a case happens? Who is responsible for the failure of the device (hardware still 100% ok)?

Nexus7bricked

[zahrahabib]

I shouldnt have updated to 5.0. I want my money back!!!!

Re:Nexus7bricked

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like most software, this software is provided as-is, without any warranty or guarantee of suitability. This is not certified mission critical software that would allow you to sue the maker if something goes wrong.

The Somebody Else's Problem Field

[TheBogBrushZone]

It's probably unrelated but my Nexus 9 went into a terminal boot loop this week (it was lagging severely and taking 10 minutes to boot beforehand so I suspect a memory or CPU issue). I just find it amusing that Google are putting this on the manufacturer because when I complained to HTC they told me to go talk to Google instead. Fortunately since it's fairly new and UK law is very clear about responsibility I can go to the retailer instead of playing customer support ping-pong.

Get rid of that fucking annoying nag screen

[Anonymous Coward]

The fucking update nag screen needs to have a 'don't ever ask me again if I want to update I'll find the option in a menu somewhere'.

Fine. You want people to upgrade. I understand that. But if someone cancels the thing 10 times in a row, how about a little internal counter that activates the 'never again' option?

Don't be evil. Remember that?

it is between the buyers and ASUS....

[Anonymous Coward]

good luck with that. their support network is horrible... they will no doubt pass the buck back to google, as the nexus is *their* product, and *their* brand.. .. and then we can all watch them play a little game of pong.. back and forth the problem goes until one of them blinks.

Don't buy hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't buy hardware from a software company

bricked my n7 gen2

[Anonymous Coward]

But even tho I was a couple months out of warranty google replaced it for free

Sale of Goods Act 1979

[MPBoulton]

If you bought your device in the UK, then you entered into a contract under laws such as the Sale of Goods Act 1979 with the retailer (not the manufacturer). In my case I bought my N5 from the Google Play store, so my contract is with Google, not with LG and as such Google are solely responsible for providing a replacement, repair or refund. Alternatively, because these devices cost more than £100, if the item was either partially or fully purchased on a credit card you benefit from an additional right to seek compensation from the credit card company under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act as well as the manufacturer.

Sadly this "go to the manufacturer" response is so common from customer service staff (and their managers) in the UK who haven't been correctly trained.

Something about throwing bricks somewhere or anoth

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are all the hyper sarcastic comments like the "can't even update their own garbage", "how hard is it to test their own premier device", "Google sucks", "their developers stink", "HA HA HA serves them right for buying junk" comments like when Microsoft borked their first Windows Phone updates ...sorry I forgot this is Slashdot where objectivity and Microsoft are rarely seen in the same place.

Re: Something about throwing bricks somewhere or a

[Anonymous Coward]

if Nexus devices made no carrier
  why do they need to be rooted and why would Google care?

OS updates still depend on this stuff?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd rather have the assurance that my hardware will be supported by the latest Android (so many manufacturers sell you a device, then don't bother updating it) than to have a few extra features.

Understandable. But either approach sounds like a complete nightmare compared to what I usually think of as "the norm."

I build desktop x64 box, put Ubuntu on it. Get updates whenever I want, and Canonical's servers don't care what hardware it is, and the very idea that my ISP would consulted in the decision it just total ludicrous. It just goes to show how handheld PCs seem to be in some bizarre kafkaesque backwater world compared to the larger brethren. And this isn't really a "Nexus thing" either. Pick any handheld from any manufacturer (Apple, Asus, whatever) and buy it direct from manufacturer or from an ISP (Verizon, T-mobile, AT&T) and it's all just bloody fucking insane compared to How Things Should Be.

Fucking mobiles. I hate them. Everyone should passionately hate them, and be mad as hell. How is this still happening?

Re:OS updates still depend on this stuff?

[Ramze]

I am right there with ya, brother. I have a flip phone. My tablet was my way of testing out this mobile nonsense. Eh, it's a cheap toy that has worked out rather well for me, though.

The problem with mobiles is they have to flash the OS onto the device and rather than a standard x64 chip, there's bloody dozens of processors and configurations to support. Basically, it's the whole embedded OS market that's the issue. Give it another decade when they've settled on some standard architectures and storage media for the OS and maybe - maybe they'll work like your Ubuntu setup. There are already variations on vanilla Android out there and even FirefoxOS and others. It's still a new market. People will figure out they want control over their devices rather than buying new ones every couple years and just taking whatever setup comes with them.

Re:OS updates still depend on this stuff?

[BronsCon]

People will figure out they want control over their devices rather than buying new ones every couple years and just taking whatever setup comes with them.

The PC market has been heading in the opposite direction for as long as I can remember. What makes you think the mobile market will be any different?

Mine did the same, but now works OK!

[KevReedUK]

I own a Nexus 7 2013 (Non-cellular, WiFi only) unit.

Two weeks after accepting the latest OTA update, my tablet froze on the lock screen and would refuse to accept any key presses on-screen. Forced a reset via the power button, and got the described symptoms (Boot loop). None of the bootloader options allowed me to get it to boot all the way.

I guess that I must have been a little frustrated at this point, because I held the tablet so hard that it gave slightly (held in Portrait with my hands on each side and fingers pushing from back to front gently, but enough to cause mild screen distortion). After doing this a final restart allowed the device to boot normally. I have since carried out the same procedure with three other examples of the same model of tablet (OK, so one of them was the LTE variant) and seen it resolve the same symptoms in each case without any adverse affect (other than a look of mild horror on one of the owners' faces until I handed it back working!).

The only thing I can think of (and I haven't bothered to crack the case to check, so this is literally just a guess) is that the touchscreen connector may not be as sturdy as it could be, and that the device will fail to boot if it doesn't detect a properly working touchscreen connection.

I'm not suggesting that everyone should try this, but if you're going to crack the case to replace the motherboard anyway, try re-seating the connectors (particularly the screen) and reassembling it first before going as far as replacing any parts and see if it sorts the issue out for you!

No more android tablet for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Aaand this is another reason why I went to get a new iPad mini 2 after my 1.5 year old gen2 nexus 7 tablet died one day. Loved it whe it worked but not so resilient.

I had flash failure out of the box with a Nexus 10

[rklrkl]

This bricking sounds similar to the first Nexus 10 the Google Play UK store sent me. I could boot it initially, but then the device would spontaneously reboot. Each time, the reboot intervals reduced (and weird graphical glitches started appearing) - within a matter of hours, it was just stuck on the Google logo and never got any further.

It was indeed Google I contacted to return it and they sent me a pre-paid courier wrapper (I had to weigh and measure the Nexus 10 packaging/tablet), but they also charged me for a second Nexus 10 (which they then refunded when the second one was delivered, but it made me uncomfortable to be 656 pounds down for a short period!).

BTW, the courier promptly "lost" my broken first Nexus 10, but I still got the refund for it. The second Nexus 10 has been working fine since, but I've had the odd storage slowdown, prompting me to completely wipe and re-install (it's on CyanogenMod 12 at the moment - I kept the stock ROM for about one day :-) ), which speeded it up. I've no idea, though, if Google (or Asus) will do anything about out-of-warranty bricked N5's/N7's though.

Hit me too

[blagder]

My Nexus 5 spontaneously and mysteriously went into the same reboot loop too. It started for me on March 24th. I couldn't make time to debug it and couldn't afford to be without a phone, so I switched to my wife's old phone.

Try telling that to somebody from the 1995.

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps more than most, this is one of those posts where the title would make absolutely no sense a couple of decades ago.