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IT Worker's Lawsuit Accuses Tata of Discrimination
dcblogs writes An IT worker is accusing Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) of discriminating against American workers and favoring "South Asians" in hiring and promotion. It's backing up its complaint, in part, with numbers. The lawsuit, filed this week in federal court in San Francisco, claims that 95% of the 14,000 people Tata employs in the U.S. are South Asian or mostly Indian. It says this practice has created a "grossly disproportionate workforce." India-based Tata achieves its "discriminatory goals" in at least three ways, the lawsuit alleges. First, the company hires large numbers of H-1B workers. Over from 2011 to 2013, Tata sponsored nearly 21,000 new H-1B visas, all primarily Indian workers, according to the lawsuit's count. Second, when Tata hires locally, "such persons are still disproportionately South Asian," and, third, for the "relatively few non-South Asians workers that Tata hires," it disfavors them in placement, promotion and termination decisions.
My first experience with them was back in 1999. They came into our office saying they could provide programmers at 60% of the cost of the existing contractors. Even less if we were willing to hire a woman.
Not that Tata isn't crooked but I wouldn't be surprised if the number of western programmers applying was lower too. Seriously, if you've worked with Indians before, why would you even consider a workplace that was stuffed with them?
get rid of the H-1B job lock and set a high min wage for them maybe with X2 OT (or ever higher min wage) at 60-80+ hours a week. Then the issue will go away.
Corporations are people to, and they speak; how?
"How" is American Indian. South Asian Indian is "Namaste".
Depends on definition of 'equal work'. I'm not sure if American workers are as good in reverting mails and doing the needful.
Nature's pillows.
Just another speed bump on the race to the bottom.
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
The comments below that article are interesting, and they- as well as the article- mirror my experience exactly.
I used to work for a domestic (US) majority (65%+) Indian company. Not small, at least 5,000 people. The CEO and CFO were Indian, and the rest followed. Not knowing their H1-B figures, I distinctly got the impression they were using the place for an immigration/sponsorship factory for their friends, extended family, caste, whatever. Management? Virtually 100% Indian. Layoffs? Huh, no Indians in that round, either. It was pretty obvious how non-Indians were treated like crap, but no one was in a law-suitin' mood because this was just after the dot-bomb crash and tech jobs weren't falling off the trees anymore. I realize everyone is an individual, blah, blah, but it seems endemic to native Indian culture that if you're not Indian you ain't shit.
I'm probably going to get yelled at for saying this, but the thing that pissed me off the most- another cultural thing- is that they weren't interested in working together (amongst themselves or with non-Indians) to find the best solution to a problem. Technical discussions always degenerated into dick waving arguments. They were more interested in getting *their* solution jammed through for a personal victory than the greater good. It was disgusting.
The "actual law" often says that discrimination is behavior towards a member of a legally recognized minority on the basis of their membership in said legally minority. Of course it varies state to state and between municipalities, but that's usually the language of it. It's only the general, unwritten interpretation that provides the vague assurances of "racial discrimination is illegal" or "gender discrimination is illegal" or similar nice-sounding definitions.
Unfortunately, 'male' and 'white' are not legally recognized minorities, so by many actual, written laws, you cannot discriminate against someone if you disadvantage them because they are either white, or male, in the same way that it's not discrimination if you only hire the deaf over the non-hearing-disabled.
The same is true of the legal definition of rape in some states; rape is only defined as a male penetrating a female. All other combinations (man/man, female/female, female on man) is considered a lesser form of sexual assault. In these places, a female can never be charged with rape.
get rid of the H-1B job lock and set a high min wage for them maybe with X2 OT (or ever higher min wage) at 60-80+ hours a week. Then the issue will go away.
What! Are you crazy or something man?!? You can't do that, Zuckerberg, Gates and the Chamber of Commerce wouldn't have it!
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
Remember, for all those H1B's, they diligently posted ads advertising each job locally and couldn't find any qualified applicants. Otherwise, it would be illegal.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Needed:
IT professional, speaks excellent Hindi, Tamil a bonus. Should have full understanding of Tata's "international" management culture. Minimum 5 years experience in southern Asia. Should have at least two days experience with Oracle and excellent customer expectation realignment skills..
The sad thing is that once upon a time (around e.g. 2000) Indian IT bods almost all really were good. Those guys all went into management. Now the clowns from Tata and WiPro will turn anything they touch to shit.
I work for a specialty IT services firm. The company is European, I'm an American. Even though we do a lot of the same services that Tata, CSC, Wipro and the others do, the company is single-industry focused and therefore most of our employees have some clue what they're doing. The discrimination claim is going to be nearly impossible to prove unless there's a real smoking gun hanging out there
The problem with IT services is that when a company outsources their IT, a new layer of abstraction is created between them and their systems. That layer also needs to make money. I know there are MBA accounting tricks that make this arrangement look better on paper, but the reality is that the outsourcing costs more in real dollars and time lost than the company could save by doing it in house. These IT services firms want the maximum profit from the arrangement, so they bill like crazy, and are constantly testing ways to provide the absolute lowest level of service they can get away with. In the case of, say, IBM or Accenture, this is done by swapping the labor out to whatever country is cheapest that year, and only keeping project managers and absolutely key people in high-cost countries. In the case of Tata or Infosys, that's accomplished by a mix of H-1B sponsorships and doing the work in India. The result is very clear, and has been for years -- unless the IT services company is willing to leave some money on the table and someone with a clue at the customer, the customer will get the minimum service level that won't breach the contract, and pay more for bad work product. The problem, like I said, lies in the MBA accounting tricks that make this look like a good idea.
That said, we have the same problem in our company, but not to the same extent as the complaint alleges. All the top leadership is European, it's been that way for quite a while, and the company is very Euro-centric. What we don't have is what this guy is describing -- our engineering group isn't given crap work assignments, etc. But, I highly doubt anyone from the US could move beyond the VP level. That's fine by me, because I have no ambition to do that. What the lawsuit alleges is that there's no opportunity at the lower ranks either.
The thing I worry about for the future is firms like Tata squeezing out the entry-level IT jobs that allow IT professionals the ability to learn and grow into better IT jobs. It's not about the people's national origin -- my job involves working with a worldwide group of employees and customers, and there are great, fair and abysmal examples of IT professionals in all countries, all races, etc. Culture can be a problem, especially in mono-culture firms. The root problem is that if someone can make more money as a...whatever...instead of an entry level IT tech, then there will be no more job/career progression for anyone, and the domestic job market in IT will stagnate.
From the wiki article:
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009
The employer must, prior to filing the H-1B petition, take good-faith steps to recruit U.S. workers for the position for which the H-1B worker is sought, offering a wage at least as high as what the law requires for the H-1B worker. The employer must also attest that, in connection with this recruitment, it has offered the job to any U.S. worker who applies who is equally or better qualified for the position.
The employer must not have laid off, and will not lay off, any U.S. worker in a job essentially equivalent to the H-1B position in the area of intended employment of the H-1B worker within the period beginning 90 days prior to the filing of the H-1B petition and ending 90 days after its filing.[34]
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
The previous sentence in the Wikipedia article says that those restrictions (that is, the requirement to attest to recruiting U.S. workers, and to have not laid off U.S. worker in equivalent positions) apply only to "certain banks and other financial institutions." It's not the general rule.
Worked with them at Motorola. All non-Indian contracts were not renewed. Friends who were employed by Motorola said we were replaced by them. Was very informative when on mandatory 50+ user HR training calls, the presenters had to be reminded to speak in English for the two non-Indians on the call. How do I know we were the only ones? They asked us to speak up if we needed english.
No teeth if they refuse to enforce it. California Edison had 400 of their current US Citizen employees train the H1b workers that were replacing them. DoL refuses to take any action on it.
http://www.computerworld.com/a...
It is not that simple.
As an Indian American, I've looked at such companies (Infosys, TCS, Cognizant etc). What they want are cheap IT consultants, and if you don't fit the profile, they won't hire you.
As a senior management consultant at a top firm (think Mitt Romney) and a US citizen, they pretty much ignore my profile, even for pretty neat gigs where my profile matches their needs. Why? Because my asking salary and profile aren't that of a "typical" cheap IT consultant from India.
I was once told that I was "too young", never mind my qualifications and experience for a senior position (I'm 35).
The truth is, they don't just want south Asians, they want south Asians who fit a certain profile. I have many friends and colleagues who are also Indians with exemplary qualifications (PhDs, MBAs, JDs, and MDs from top schools) who are pretty much ignored by these firms. I am an American and Ivy-league educated with graduate degrees, and I am certainly not their type.
Why? Because if you are really well qualified, then you will demand more salary. If you more cosmopolitan, then even if you happen to be ethnically south Asian, you are less likely to be "culturally" brainwashed or pliable to shady or questionable business practices.
That goes against their fundamental business model, and they will not want you.
~m
There's also a loophole. You just transfer the skilled American to a "non-technical" position a day before you let them go. Yeah, maybe you can battle it in court, but good fucking luck hiring an attorney to battle a huge corporation when you have no job.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
For Companies yes. That is why they want more H1-B's to drive wages down to slave wages an help line the pockets of executives. I think companies should have to pay monetary penalties for every H1-B they hire.
My last company I was asked to help my boss write a job description targeted to a specific persons resume - it was a person from India with an H1-B. The person was "submitted" by another person in the company that was an H1-B. I informed my boss that by law he had to look for an American Candidate first. He told me that if an American candidate fit the job description he would hire them. When the job description is tailored to a specific persons resume the chances of someone else fitting it are slim. Been there, done that. I told my boss I could not with a clear conscious help him do something so underhanded. I immediately started looking for another job and found one and started my new job within 4 weeks. I couldn't work for a slimy company like that. Granted anymore, just about every company is becoming slimy.....
The Truth is a Virus!!!
Time to start jailing these H1B abusers - all the way up the chain to Zuckerberg, Wric Schmidt, Bill Gates and anyone else who keeps perpetuating lies about "shortages of American STEM workers". Their agenda is anti-American, ageist, and racist. Of course, the couch their pleas in more sanguine phrases like "this is an opportunity expand opportunity for America", blah, blah, blah. We all know what's going on - a race to the bottom of the wage barrel. Every one of the individuals named above should do jail time for the fraud they have encouraged; this group is especially comfortable with keep skilled older American (over 40) Americans unemployed.