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Joseph Goebbels' Estate Sues Publisher Over Diary Excerpt Royalties

wabrandsma writes with this from The Guardian: The estate of Joseph Goebbels, Adolf Hitler's minister of propaganda, is taking legal action against the publisher Random House over a new biography, claiming payment for the use of extracts from his diaries. Peter Longerich's biography of Goebbels is to be published in May (Random House/ Siedler). Longerich, who is the professor at Royal Holloway's Holocaust Research Centre, maintains this case has important censorship implications. 'If you accept that a private person controls the rights to Goebbels' diaries, then – theoretically – you give this person the right to control research,' he said.

14 of 301 comments (clear)

  1. Unless by captnjohnny1618 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Up front confession: haven't read the article, but unless the diaries are in the public domain, isn't this pretty cut and dry? If the diaries are in private hands, they're in private hands and you need permission to use their contents.

    1. Re:Unless by captnjohnny1618 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      FTA: the diaries "remain in copyright until the end of 2015. Copies are in public libraries."

      Just wait a year and then there REALLY won't be an issue. There isn't a clause in the legal code about whether or not a horrible human being can or can't get a copyright, so until there's a court decision (which seems like flirting with what can and can't be said... Which seems like free speech) this case seems extra baseless. The comment that this has implications on research seems misplaced to me. Am I missing something?

    2. Re:Unless by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In the US there are plenty of legal codes that do not allow a criminal to make money from their crimes, such as a mass murderer making money from publishing a autobiography

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    3. Re:Unless by captnjohnny1618 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Question that is to somewhat be annoying: but other's can publish biographies and make movies about their crimes? Seems like all movies that profit off of heinous acts should have to go to repay the victims of their crimes. I know that's not practical but if we're going to draw a line, seems kinda arbitrary to me. I'm not a legal expert though (no legal qualifications at all whatsoever actually. hah!)

    4. Re:Unless by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Certainly he had a place of power in the Nazi elite, and he used that place to drive home a pet project:

      During 1942,[1] Goebbels continued to press for the "final solution to the Jewish question" to be carried forward as quickly as possible now that Germany had occupied a huge swathe of Soviet territory into which all the Jews of German-controlled Europe could be deported. There they could be worked into extinction in accordance with the plan agreed on at the Wannsee Conference convened by Heydrich in January. It was a constant annoyance to Goebbels that, at a time when Germany was fighting for its life on the eastern front, there were still 40,000 Jews in Berlin.[2] They should be "carted off to Russia," he wrote in his diary. "It would be best to kill them altogether."[3] Although the Propaganda Ministry was not invited to the Wannsee Conference, Goebbels knew by March what had been decided there.[4] He wrote:

              The Jews are now being deported to the east. A fairly barbaric procedure, not to be described in any greater detail, is being used here, and not much more remains of the Jews themselves. In general, it can probably be established that 60 percent of them must be liquidated, while only 40 percent can be put to work ... A judgment is being carried out on the Jews which is barbaric, but fully deserved.[5]

      1. Jewish Virtual Library
      2. Kershaw, Hitler, II, p 519
      3. Kershaw, Hitler, II, p 473
      4. Browning, The Origins of the Final Solution, p 415
      5. Kershaw, Hitler, II, p 494
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J...

      This goes well past any notion of free speech and well into advocating and driving on the process of genocide

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    5. Re:Unless by koan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Troubling is that most everyone on the street will know what happened to Jews in WW2 if you ask.

      If you mention Pol Pot they have no idea who he was, if you mention the Armenian genocide they will also have no idea what that is.
      In fact the only genocide well covered is the Jewish one, rarely are the 5 million others killed alongside them mentioned either.

      Hollywood has produced movie after movie, I don't blame for keeping history alive to protect themselves, but arguing who can use the term genocide, and the lack of similar effort for genocides that followed leave me wondering.

      The singular retelling of the "Holocaust" leaves everyone else out and is quite often used for propaganda purposes.

      In fact, not to sound crass, Goebbels would have been proud.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    6. Re:Unless by Your.Master · · Score: 4, Informative

      60 million is the number now?

      Yes, 60 million is the number "now". Are you implying that at some point in the past almost 70 years, fewer people were thought to have died in WWII?

      Let me guess, if I don't believe your statements

      There are 5 references to the original crime, and a sixth to the definition of the actual definition of the crime committed. You gave 0 references.

      Here's some more references for the specific number of 60 million deaths broken down by country:
      http://www.nationalww2museum.o...
      http://necrometrics.com/20c5m....

      If you want to propose your own number, cite or shut up.

      I should be thrown in jail?

      Quit being a drama queen. You are literally the only person on this thread to mention jail or prison in this entire thread as of the time of writing. We get it; you're offended that people aren't neutral on the subject of Joseph Goebbels. You can get over it.

      If you don't care about him orchestrating war crimes, maybe you will accept he's a criminal due to him murdering six children (his own children) before his sucide? Cite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.... Those were by his own hand.

      Here's a philosophical question. What's worse, murdering your own children by your own hand, or intentionally causing the deaths of 60 million people (the vast majority of whom should be presumed innocent of any crime), but at arm's length? I'd go with the latter, but they are both pretty damned bad.

      The only reason he wasn't tried for war crimes was he was already dead:

      http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/ar...

      The IMT decided not to try them posthumously so as not to create the impression that they might still be alive.

      It's not like it's unusual to not press charges on dead people. It doesn't do much good to anybody. Pretty safe bet he'd have been convicted.

      It's not like this was an accident, that he couldn't have known what he was doing. It's certainly not thought crimes. We don't know Goebbels' thoughts, we know his actions.

    7. Re:Unless by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Informative

      Maybe the poster was confused* about Holocaust deaths versus "general WW2" deaths (including soldiers, etc).

      If you want to limit it to just the Holocaust, then Goebbels was guilty of (at least) being a co-conspirator in the deaths of 12 million people. This includes 6 million Jews and 6 million other people (political prisoners, gypsies, etc.).

      * Chances are, the poster wasn't confused. Especially if one looks to the poster's previous posts. There's one calling evolution "not established science" there so I wouldn't be surprised if he would think that the Holocaust isn't "established history" either.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    8. Re:Unless by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Particular to the antisemitism of the Nazis, one can look at the need to find a villain, some group that they could hold responsible for their economic depression (largely the result of WW1 and the Treaty of Versailles) that did not require that they question their Germanic superiority.

      If for example, they admitted that the Great War was a colossal screw up, it would insult the people that they were busy ass-kissing and complimenting into believing that there was some divine justification for mounting another world war. So it was awfully convenient to blame everything bad that was happening on social groups that had been historically blamed for things being bad, thus the Gypsies and homosexuals and Jews were convenient targets for the social rage that most Germans should have been pointing at themselves and their leaders who were busily stoking the furnaces of war all over again.

      Unfortunately it is a pattern of behavior that has not been the sole property of the Nazis. We can see it in American political parties, Putin's 'social engineering', even in the political manipulations of Israel as they simultaneously drive the Palestinians into a corner and blame their reaction as the reason that they must be treated so harshly

      We can expect this to continue for as long at the people who put these politicians into power fall for the same stupid tricks. The continued use by leaders of the Big Lie (Lie big and repeat the lie until people believe it to be true) and an unwillingness on the part of the populace to deal with the pain of Cognitive Dissonance (the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values) explains so much that is bad in this world.

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    9. Re:Unless by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You find it hard to condemn a guy who was given the job of justifying murdering six million Jews?

      You do understand, I trust, that Goebbels was more than just a propaganda writer, but a senior minister and, for a brief time, one of Hitler's chief heirs. But even the propaganda itself was horrifying in its vileness and evil, and even Goebbels had never done anything else, that would still make him one of the evilest men in hisotry.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    10. Re:Unless by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Insightful

      those are mere words, did he kill or maim anyone?

      The standard Nuremburg defence (which didn't work BTW) was "I was only obeying orders", not "I was only giving them".

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  2. rule of law by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Longerich maintains this case has important censorship implications. “If you accept that a private person controls the rights to Goebbels’ diaries, then – theoretically – you give this person the right to control research,” he said.

    A private person controls the rights to Goebbels' diaries until a court of law declares otherwise or they fall into the public domain for some other reason. Courts should have done this in the aftermath of WWII, but Germans wanted these copyrights to remain valid in order to control such writings. The writings could also have come into the public domain as part of some settlement to civil claims against the Goebbels estate. But since neither seems to have happened, the copyright still appears to be valid.

    Arguing as if "research" should be exempted from the usual rule of law is particularly embarrassing for a German professor studying the Holocaust, since many atrocities were committed in the Third Reich because German academics considered themselves above the law and got away with it.

    If Longerich can't make a convincing argument that these works are in the public domain or that he falls under a well-defined legal exemption, he can join the rest of us and work towards shorter copyright terms, broader fair use exemptions, and less draconian laws. Of course, he could also demonstrate good will by licensing his own works under a CC license.

  3. get to the end of the article by jonsmirl · · Score: 5, Informative

    'Initially, he feared that Schacht would take out an injunction against the book, preventing its publication altogether. Determined to avoid the destruction of any books “on the grounds of a claim from Goebbels”, he agreed to pay her 1% of the net retail price.

    He said: “When she wanted to cash in on that agreement, I said that agreement is null and void It’s against the moral rights You haven’t been entitled to sell me any words as those words lie within the Bavarian government.”'

    The author agreed to pay a 1% royalty and then reneged when the heir tried to collect. Of course that triggered a lawsuit.

  4. Copyrighting History by JonathanP.Bennett · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems that the bigger problem here is that modern copyright is so unreasonably long, historical documents are still under copyright. Anything over the original 28 year copyright term is really robbing the next generation of history.