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If Earth Never Had Life, Continents Would Be Smaller

sciencehabit writes It may seem counterintuitive, but life on Earth, even with all the messy erosion it creates, keeps continents growing. Presenting here this week at the annual meeting of the European Geosciences Union, researchers say it's the erosion itself that makes the difference in continental size. Plant life, for example, can root its way through rock, breaking rocks into sediment. The sediments, like milk-dunked cookies, carry liquid water in their pores, which allows more water to be recycled back into Earth's mantle. If not enough water is present in the mantle about 100 to 200 km deep to keep things flowing, continental production decreases. The authors built a planetary evolution model to show how these processes relate and found that if continental weathering and erosion rates decreased, at first the continents would remain large. But over time, if life never evolved on Earth, not enough water would make its way to the mantle to help produce more continental crust, and whatever continents there were would then shrink. Now, continents cover 40% of the planet. Without life, that coverage would shrink to 30%. In a more extreme case, if life never existed, the continents might only cover 10% of Earth.

64 comments

  1. Erosion? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Then what about all the plants preventing erosion?

    1. Re:Erosion? by cusco · · Score: 1

      Insightful? What idiots marked this insightful? Plants may prevent erosion short-term, even on an archeological time scale, but on a geologic time scale they accelerate erosion because they break up rocks so efficiently. Make big ones into small ones, and even if the roots hold it in place for 10,000 years that smaller rock is going to start heading for the ocean.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    2. Re:Erosion? by JakeBurn · · Score: 1

      If a plant broke up the rock below it, then how will that rock get free? The plant's roots broke the rock apart, and the plant's decaying body, (after it dies), will decompose over top of the rock. How, on a 'geologic time scale', would tons of dead plant matter, which then turns to dirt and eventually to rock/coal/etc, which in turn goes even further to geographically lock that small rock where it started, not prevent erosion? The irony forming between your sig and your actual post is delicious. Erosion is the process whereby some form of motion/energy removes dirt/rock from one location and allows it to settle in another location. Plant roots help to stop this from happening so they hinder erosion on the small scale time-wise as you even noted in your post. Its amazing that you have the balls to have that signature yet seem to be oblivious to how this world works. A partial truth doesn't make you smart if its specifically designed to cover your ignorance everywhere else that one fact doesn't cover. Who cares what might happen 40 million years after all the plants in an area have died? Why not just go full retard and claim that plants can't possibly hinder erosion because eventually, the sun will explode, blowing apart our planet and freeing all those small pieces of rock? The problem with trying to use an eventuality in your argument is that you can't skip to the 'eventual' conclusion without covering everything that might possibly happen in between or at least having an answer when questions arise. You are absolutely correct that given enough time, a rock formed by a plant root breaking apart bedrock COULD break free. Between now and the time the sun explodes, however, can you tell us how many of these rocks will break free? All of them? Three of them? What is their combined mass? Is it greater than the theoretical mass of every particle of bedrock that Earth's wind and water would have eroded across it's entire surface if there wasn't any plant life to begin with? Either we're saying plants prevent erosion on the small scale, (which you already agree is the case), or we're talking 'eventual' scale where we can only answer the question if we have more information than is physically possible to have. Perhaps the idiots who marked that post as insightful were at least intelligent enough to understand that some questions do not have concrete answers and sometimes intelligence is reflected not in what you know, but the questions you find valid for asking.

    3. Re:Erosion? by cusco · · Score: 1

      Go up to the mountains some time, I take it you never have before. Look at any tree tearing a boulder out of the hillside. That tree will die, its pieces will wash down the mountain, and once the roots have decayed the rock will follow. That's why the Adirondacks are little bumps today rather than the towering peaks that they once were. The deep jungle, bogs and swamps are pretty much the only place where your "plant's decaying body, (after it dies), will decompose over top of the rock" scenario would hold true. Anywhere with any noticeable slope will erode, even in the Great Plains the glacial rocks are being broken up and washing down the Mississippi today.

      Who cares what might happen 40 million years after . . .

      Apparently you don't really grasp the time scales involved here. Continents grow and shrink over the course of hundreds of millions of years, not a few tens of millions. India skitters across the lithosphere, floating on the (comparatively) light water-containing mantle material that has been subducted under it, and slams into India, pushing up the Himalayas. Plants climb the mountainside, breaking up the rock, which washes down the Ganges and Mekong, creating enormous deltas. After a few hundreds of millions of years southern Asia is now much larger than it had been. This is the sort of time scale they're talking about.

      By the way, the sun will never "explode, blowing apart our planet", it's much too small to go supernova. It will eventually expand into a red giant, probably engulfing Earth within its corona and vaporizing it.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    4. Re:Erosion? by JakeBurn · · Score: 1

      Way to ignore the one relevant question in this entire discussion. Come back when you have a relevant answer. Thank you for the astronomy information by the way. It still doesn't absolve your complete lack of ability to see why your argument is irrelevant but thank you all the same.

    5. Re:Erosion? by cusco · · Score: 1

      OK, here is the 'relevant answer', condensed. Plants slow erosion in the short (hundreds/thousands of years) term, but accelerate it in the long (millions of years) term.
       
      Eventually the vast majority of organic material that isn't recycled back into the ecosystem will end up in the benthic depths, deposited on the abyssal plains (and apparently processed exceedingly slowly by a recently discovered class of archea). That's why coal deposits (mostly the remains of swamplands that never eroded downstream) are valuable.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    6. Re:Erosion? by cusco · · Score: 1

      Your thought process still puzzles me. Erosion is an amazingly powerful force. It may be slow, but once the Appalachians were taller than the Himalayas, and there used to be a tall range of mountains in the middle of Africa where today there is only veld. Soft matter such as rotting roots erodes much faster than rocks, just ask any farmer. At the time scale of continent building the dinosaurs were around the day before yesterday.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  2. Barren Class M Planets? by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder what implications this has for alien worlds that somehow ended up vaguely earthlike, with lots of liquid water, yet never developed life despite being generally hospitable. Offhand I think it's certainly possible that such worlds exist, but this would seem to indicate that they'd more likely be predominantly oceanic, with only small continents or isolated archipelagos for land mass.

    1. Re:Barren Class M Planets? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be an interesting model/experiement: set up a model M class planet with all the chemicals and reactants and see if "life" forms.

    2. Re:Barren Class M Planets? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Not possible since life created our oxygen rich atmosphere.

    3. Re:Barren Class M Planets? by ozduo · · Score: 0

      why bother! we already know the answer it's 41

      --
      I got to the chocolate box before you, that's why the hard ones have teeth marks.
    4. Re: Barren Class M Planets? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahem.. 42.

    5. Re: Barren Class M Planets? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      “I always said there was something fundamentally wrong with the universe.”

    6. Re:Barren Class M Planets? by cusco · · Score: 1

      What does that have to do with the parent post? An oxygen-rich atmosphere is hardly necessary for oceans.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    7. Re:Barren Class M Planets? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Nor is an oxygenated atmosphere at all likely to help with the origin of life (under pretty much all models I've looked at).

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  3. And the point is? by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1, Insightful
    I mean, really now. What's the point of this article?

    .
    If the sun were ten times hotter, there wouldn't be life on Earth.

    If humans needed to breathe in methane instead of oxygen, there wouldn't be humans on Earth.

    See, I can play the game as well....

    1. Re:And the point is? by tomhath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Plus, if life never started on Earth, no one would care if the continents were smaller.

    2. Re:And the point is? by denzacar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Shutting the mouths of all those "Leave Earth alone!!!" nutcases arguing that it is humanity's duty to reduce it's numbers until it is not a burden to the planet?

      That, and being actual... you know... science.
      Instead of... you know... a straw man troll in the same vein as "Why is this news for nerds?"

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    3. Re:And the point is? by tsa · · Score: 1

      Hey! Humans! Leave that Earth alone!

      Sorry, couldn't resist :)

      --

      -- Cheers!

    4. Re:And the point is? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      FTFS:

      but life on Earth, even with all the messy erosion it creates, keeps continents growing

      So, by their model, life, unchecked, will keep continents growing until the continents cover the whole Earth! And their will be no more oceans anymore! That would be a major blow to the surfing and beach vacation industries.

      In order to fix this, we should start destroying a bit of life to keep the continents in balance, according to their model.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    5. Re:And the point is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess you don't have a higher education. There are a lot of points, knowledge is power. This knowledge can be used to manipulate our surroundings and make educated assumptions on foreign planets, that might save a lot of time when it comes to selection of probable planets.

    6. Re:And the point is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I keep wondering what is the point of people getting degrees in science if this is all that results in it. Nothing. It is like writing an article of what life would be like today if the telephone was never invented. Maybe interesting to think about, but leave that to fiction book writers.

    7. Re:And the point is? by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      And if life never started on Earth, there would be none of this arguing over the value of systemd.

      Now we go full circle, once again.

      --
      Will
    8. Re:And the point is? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Imagine a planet without trolls. Would all civilizations evolve trolls?

    9. Re:And the point is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Earth-business is a scalable business!

    10. Re:And the point is? by jandersen · · Score: 1

      I mean, really now. What's the point of this article?

      Who knows, but the point of speculating is to think through different, possible scenarios - the very foundation of prediction, I'd say. Since we don't know all the parameters that are going to shape tomorrow, we have to think through what might happen - what if the car breaks down, what if that cheque is delayed etc - so we can be prepared for things and make contingency plans. In my opinion this is the very thing that makes intelligence an evolutionary advantage: the ability to plan ahead and make reasonable predictions.

      Correct, we already know how things turned out on Earth, but if we at any time in the future were to go to planets outside our star system, it would help prepare us better, if we could make even just an educated guess about what we might find when we arrived. I don't know - I think it is common sense.

    11. Re:And the point is? by khallow · · Score: 1

      What was the point of your post? Are you trying to claim that two thirds less land area on Earth wouldn't be important? That a "what if?" situation, like opportunity costs of our choices (to name one that happens all the time), isn't important?

    12. Re:And the point is? by khallow · · Score: 1

      You do realize that lots of fiction book writers have science degrees and that these degrees do help their fiction writing?

    13. Re:And the point is? by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      I mean, really now. What's the point of this article?

      . If the sun were ten times hotter, there wouldn't be life on Earth.

      If humans needed to breathe in methane instead of oxygen, there wouldn't be humans on Earth.

      See, I can play the game as well....

      This is a prime example of an individual who doesn't get the meaning and purpose of science and the pursuit of knowledge.

    14. Re:And the point is? by denzacar · · Score: 1

      All in all you're just a-nother layer of sediment...

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  4. Eh? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It may seem counterintuitive, but life on Earth, even with all the messy erosion it creates, keeps continents growing.

    It had never occurred to me to consider that life might cause erosion. That's usually what wind, rain, and gravity are famous for, isn't it? Plant life is pretty famous, surely, for countering erosion by stopping soil getting washed away (a lack of which leading to occasionally disastrous consequences in flash floods, for example).

    The sediments, like milk-dunked cookies, carry liquid water in their pores

    Milk-dunked cookies don't carry liquid water in their pores. They carry milk. So the sediments are more like water-dunked cookies, moreso because they both taste yucky.

    But over time, if life never evolved on Earth, not enough water would make its way to the mantle to help produce more continental crust, and whatever continents there were would then shrink.

    Now, continents cover 40% of the planet. Without life, that coverage would shrink to 30%. In a more extreme case, if life never existed, the continents might only cover 10% of Earth.

    That's very confusingly written. The first sentence say "if life never evolved on Earth...continents there would then shrink." But then how did those continents get so big in the first place? Surely shrinking continents is only the case when life did evolve, but then theoretically all dies off.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    1. Re:Eh? by itzly · · Score: 1

      But then how did those continents get so big in the first place? Surely shrinking continents is only the case when life did evolve, but then theoretically all dies off

      Probably the continents would have been bigger in the ancient Earth, because there wouldn't have been so much water yet. Without life, and with increasing amounts of water, the continents would get smaller.

    2. Re:Eh? by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      Well it is far better not to dunk your cookies but to let them crumble between the hammers and anvils of your teeth. That's what most of the adults do, anyway.

      Some species of trees, like Douglas fir, are called "primary soil builders" because their roots break up exposed bedrock. John Denver sang a ditty about the flower that shattered the stone. Yes, Virginia, some life forms actively increase erosion.

      --
      Will
    3. Re:Eh? by jandersen · · Score: 1

      It had never occurred to me to consider that life might cause erosion.

      No, I think that is something nobody really appreciated in the past; it is only in the last ~10 years that I have started reading an increasing number of articles about this, but it seems that life has been a very major factor in shaping the environment of our planet. There has been a number of great 'events' throughout Earths history - not just "the great oxygenation" if that is the name, but several others, one being (from memory) when life first colonized dry land and caused the release of iron into the sea by erosion, which apparently laid down all the major iron deposits. Perhaps it isn't so surprising - after all, most life exists by breaking chemical bonds and extracting the energy.

      Plant life is pretty famous, surely, for countering erosion by stopping soil getting washed away

      But plant life large enough to stop erosion is fairly recent (less than 1/2 byo) and constitutes only a small proportion of the actual biomass on the planet, it is only on the surface. Compare that to the fact that we keep finding life everywhere, from deep within the crust to the top of the atmosphere; there is such a huge amount of living things munching away at the chemistry of the planet.

    4. Re:Eh? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Awe, cute, you're trying to show us how smart you are ... but you did just the opposite.

      Let me help you:

      It had never occurred to me to consider that life might cause erosion. That's usually what wind, rain, and gravity are famous for, isn't it? Plant life is pretty famous, surely, for countering erosion by stopping soil getting washed away (a lack of which leading to occasionally disastrous consequences in flash floods, for example).

      I went to school in central Florida, widely accepted as a pretty shitty school system in relation to America, which in turn is considered to have a pretty shitty school system in relation to the rest of the civilized world ... yet, you some how managed to attend a school system that didn't bother to teach basic Earth Science in elementary school where everyone learned exactly this. Roots help break rocks into dirt by enlarging any crack they can find, ever so slightly, which allows more water in to do things like freeze and expand to break rock or wash dissolvable bits out.

      Milk-dunked cookies don't carry liquid water in their pores. They carry milk. So the sediments are more like water-dunked cookies, moreso because they both taste yucky.

      Awe, now you're trying to be ultra-literal. This just makes you look like a douche, for reference. You know what they were saying or you're a complete and total moron without enough reading comprehension skills to qualify to participate in a slashdot discussion.

      That's very confusingly written. The first sentence say "if life never evolved on Earth...continents there would then shrink." But then how did those continents get so big in the first place? Surely shrinking continents is only the case when life did evolve, but then theoretically all dies off.

      Are you really that stupid? It wasn't confusing, it was perfectly simple to understand, if you aren't trying to make it more complex than it is. Again, if this was difficult for you, you're reading the wrong web site, and so is anyone who modded you up.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  5. The Search for Life by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

    Seems like this could have drastic effects on how we search for life. Not only are we looking for planets in the Goldilocks zone, but we now know that if we see too much water it could be a sign that there an absence of life.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    1. Re:The Search for Life by Kjella · · Score: 2

      Seems like this could have drastic effects on how we search for life. Not only are we looking for planets in the Goldilocks zone, but we now know that if we see too much water it could be a sign that there an absence of life.

      I don't think we'd have any clue how much water there "should be" since that depends on the stellar material that created the planet, asteroid impacts and so many other factors we wouldn't know. So practically no, I don't expect this to affect how we search for planets with life and we don't have nearly enough information to consider probabilities. For all we know ocean worlds might be the norm, no life as we know it survives without water so the most obvious place to find life might be in water. Land seems a lot less essential, really.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:The Search for Life by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      Except that global warming would completely swamp this signal.

      The easiest way on Earth to get bigger continents is to have an Ice Age. That's been done a few times.

      --
      Will
    3. Re:The Search for Life by williamcanusky · · Score: 1

      agree

    4. Re:The Search for Life by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      it has no effect on it, tbh.

      this is just about the earth. furthermore, how much water there was to begin with and how the continents were to begin with depends.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    5. Re:The Search for Life by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 1

      we now know that if we see too much water it could be a sign that there an absence of life.

      Except unless we saw a before/after picture that were billions of years apart, we'd have no idea what the 'baseline' amount of water was for a planet, and therefore would not have any idea how the amount of water at any point in time might relate to their being life or not.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
  6. Piffle by koan · · Score: 1

    If a planet has liquid water on it it's just a matter of when life exist not if.

    Personally I think a lot of cellular level life is out there blowing around like dandelions, they drop in and adapt.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  7. An what about volcanoes and plate tectonic? by Streetlight · · Score: 1

    It seems to me a lot of solid earth surface is produced by bringing up stuff from below. IIRC, aren't the Hawaiian, islands though not continents, the result of volcanic activity? The interactions along the earth's tectonic plates could uplift surfaces, too. Not an earth scientist, so not sure.

    --
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
    1. Re:An what about volcanoes and plate tectonic? by itzly · · Score: 1

      But then you would expect a similar amount of land to disappear again.

    2. Re:An what about volcanoes and plate tectonic? by edittard · · Score: 2

      It does. It's called subduction.

      --
      At the bottom of the /. main page it says 'Yesterday's News'. Well they got that right.
    3. Re:An what about volcanoes and plate tectonic? by cusco · · Score: 1

      The amount of water subducted into the mantle makes a big difference in what is "brought up from below". Water-containing rock melts at a much lower temperature than unaltered rock, is lighter, is less viscous, and would "float" above the heavier original mantle material. The volcanoes above the subduction zones are much more active because of the rock's water content than they would be otherwise. The less-viscous mantle material means that the smaller plates above it, like India, move around more easily than the larger, more stationary plates like Asia, causing uplift events like the Himalayas, Andes and Rockies.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  8. you lose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a more accurate pedantic analogy from you would be:

    "if there were no people, then God or some other deity could enjoy smaller more petite yet ultimately pointless continents"

    , and you would still lose

  9. More importantly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will there still be seven of them, and will this appear in our Finals?

  10. Re:Would Linux be smaller without Systemd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Continents ignore exit statuses like systemd does. There. Brought us back on topic.

  11. GOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Would not have been created, either. Bam!

  12. The point is that life is bad, dummy by popo · · Score: 5, Funny

    Obviously: Since without Life our oceans would be larger, it doesn't take a genius to see that life is negatively impacting the size of our oceans.

    As a conservationist I am deeply concerned about this.

    Also, by the same token -- it disturbs me that all this out-of-control biology has clearly had an effect on the chemical composition of our atmosphere. Why is no one more freaked out by this? Historic records clearly show that our atmosphere has become tainted with oxygen as a result of all this "life".

    Are you okay with chemical changes to the atmosphere, and smaller oceans? Well? Are you?!

    --
    ------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
  13. What a joke by p51d007 · · Score: 0

    Same people that probably say man made global warming too.

  14. Poop? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Am I the only one who thought this was going to talk about how we're all living on a big continent of dead bodies and poo..

    1. Re:Poop? by tmjva · · Score: 1

      I should have replied to yours. I didn't see it until I posted mine. (I used a different control-f search word to avoid duplication.)

      --
      Tracy Johnson
      Old fashioned text games hosted below:
      http://empire.openmpe.com/
      BT
  15. We are All Standing on a Big Pile by tmjva · · Score: 1

    I guessing there must but a segment of the Geosciences academia are all playing a joke on us to simply prove we are all standing on piles of all of life's shit.

    The joke is even better because someone in academia is going to get their Doctorate and full tenure and never have to work a day in their life again.

    --
    Tracy Johnson
    Old fashioned text games hosted below:
    http://empire.openmpe.com/
    BT
  16. Flat Earth... by EricTheO · · Score: 0

    So living things will eventually lead to Flat Earth due to erosion. Maybe I should have said flat earth, as in soil under your feet.

    --
    -Eric