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Automakers To Gearheads: Stop Repairing Cars

Mr_Blank writes Automakers are supporting provisions in copyright law that could prohibit home mechanics and car enthusiasts from repairing and modifying their own vehicles. In comments filed with a federal agency that will determine whether tinkering with a car constitutes a copyright violation, OEMs and their main lobbying organization say cars have become too complex and dangerous for consumers and third parties to handle. The dispute arises from a section of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act that no one thought could apply to vehicles when it was signed into law in 1998. But now, in an era where cars are rolling computing platforms, the U.S. Copyright Office is examining whether provisions of the law that protect intellectual property should prohibit people from modifying and tuning their cars.

21 of 649 comments (clear)

  1. You no longer own a car by davydagger · · Score: 5, Insightful

    you simply get to use it, and the automaker gets a final say in how you use your car. good grief.

    1. Re:You no longer own a car by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Fine, if I no longer fucking own the damned car, then they can charge me considerably less for it.

      What they want to do it wipe out the doctrine of "First Sale" which says "this is my property, what you think I should do is irrelevant".

      This is just a cash grab by greedy assholes.

      But if the car isn't mine, don't go expecting the same amount of money for it.

      I sincerely hope these auto makers get smacked down really hard.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:You no longer own a car by Wootery · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nothing a nice, expensive official repair shop won't fix.

    3. Re:You no longer own a car by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You'll have to try harder than that for an example, because that's already been defeated very handily.

      Oh, and these guys will happily sell you shiny new SSD's with native OSX TRIM support.

      (...besides, even without TRIM support there's no real difference for the average user in longevity or performance on an SSD. I've gone without it the whole time I've had mine; by the time the SSD wears out, I'll just go out and buy one twice the size - probably for the same price I paid for the 512GB Crucial SSD that I have shoved into my MBP right now.)

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    4. Re:You no longer own a car by careysub · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Penguinisto: you need to try harder than that. The claim was that Apple had a problem with it. If Apple disables TRIM support on a 3rd party SSD, that is solid evidence that Apple has a problem with it. The fact that it can be defeated does not nullify the point.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    5. Re:You no longer own a car by guises · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just because something can be done, with enough know-how and tools, doesn't mean that you're not being prevented from doing it. When you need a soldering iron just to change a battery or to add some RAM I think you've fallen into this category.

      "Being locked in jail doesn't prevent you from leaving, all you need is a hacksaw and some elbow grease. People have been modifying jails this way for a very long time."

    6. Re:You no longer own a car by Predius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You don't need to worry about car complexity creating that scenario. An idiot wrench can absolutely wreck his ability to stop by sucking air into a caliper while 'bleeding the brakes' leading to a failed panic stop or fail to lock down cables on a carb leading to a stuck open throttle, etc.

    7. Re:You no longer own a car by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, somebody needs to play Devil's Advocate here, so I will. What if onboard vehicle computers truthfully are (or soon will become) so complicated - and so integral to the functioning of the vehicle - that an untrained hobbyist screwing with it could cause injury or death?

      Fuck, man, brakes have been like that for a hundred goddamn years!

      Stop letting "buh-buh-buh-computers!" be an excuse for corporate sociopaths and nanny-state asswipes to destroy your rights. Seriously.

      We have two choices: we can be free, or we can be safe. These are mutually exclusive. And in the United States of America, the only correct choice is to be free. Sniveling infantile cowards who think otherwise can fuck off and die.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    8. Re:You no longer own a car by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      And in the United States of America, the only correct choice is to be free.

      LOL. What rock are you living under? For decades, the only choice in the USA has been to be safe. You've fortified your country, limited immigration, subjected yourself to anal probing in airports, get spied on by the NSA and whatever other government branch, are about to give up net neutrality, all of it in the name of safety and think-of-the-children.

    9. Re:You no longer own a car by topologicalanomaly47 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The big issue for me is that around here the chance of having my car repaired by a moron is a lot greater if I go to a dealer shop instead of some trusted garage that all my friends use.

  2. Probably best by bobstreo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To purchase a nice car from the 60's or 70's with no computer. Easy to fix, and except for crash-readyness usually pretty solid.

    1. Re:Probably best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Cars from the 60's-70's suck big time.
      What you want is a car from the early '90s, pre OBDII.
      It turns out that the engine computer in my car is a 6502 derivative. Seeing how I cut my programming teeth on VIC-20's, C-64's and Atari 800's it wasn't difficult to go in to the rom and modify the code as I saw fit.

  3. Classic abuse of power by Bruce66423 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Whilst the DMCA may or may not be a good thing, it is certainly not a means for the car manufacturers to impose a SAFETY based restriction. That organisations pull that sort of abuse is why the legal system is held in contempt.

  4. Hold it by Crashmarik · · Score: 4, Insightful

    " The dispute arises from a section of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act that no one thought could apply to vehicles when it was signed into law in 1998"

    Do the editors even read this site ? Virtually everyone realized this could apply to just about anything that ran code. There was even the infamous use garage door opener case

    https://freedom-to-tinker.com/...

    And the HP and Lexmark toner cartridge cases which were just about embedded serialization
     

  5. Gonna fly against magnuson moss act. by random+coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If they do this, they're going against the magnuson moss act.

    In a just world they would lose copyright when they stop warranting the product. You want copyright of that ecu? You give a permanent warranty on it and replace them every time they fail, for free. Don't want to have to replace it? then you give up copyright to the code on it because user needs to fix it. I'm not holding my breath though.

  6. Re:Inaccurate headline. by mark-t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And if such changes would cause the vehicle to no longer comply with regional safety standards for vehicles, then the person would be held responsible if or when that modification was discovered. While that may be too late to actually prevent an accident, making it illegal to modify your car under the allegation that you may make it unsafe to drive is like making it illegal for you to drink alcohol if you happen to have a driver's license (ignoring the fact that a driver's license is often used for verifying that one is of legal drinking age in the first place) because you might try drive while drunk. Most of the people who are suspected of drunk driving are unfortunately only found so after they have already caused an accident as well.

    My point is that like drunk driving, and laws that prohibit that activity, there are already laws that prohibit making any unsafe modifications to your vehicle... and not realizing that a change would cause a vehicle to not meet the necessary safety requirements is no more of a justification than not realizing that one was over the legal limit for blood alcohol content when getting behind the wheel of a car.

  7. Re:Oh Look, a Car Analogy for Last Week's Story! by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Indeed. I never understood that circular logic. Perhaps somebody of that persuasion can explain how it (allegedly) works for us.

    Businesses want control, and if you don't properly regulate them, they'll use every method they have to gain their desired control. I see the government functioning like referees. Without referees a game would become a dirty slugfest instead of a skillfest. Basketball and wrestling would be the same sport. Sure, refs are sometimes stupid, but anybody in any institution can likewise be stupid.

  8. We want you to buy a new car every 3 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We want you to buy a new car every 3 years and with auto drive cars they will shutdown after software updates end after 2-3 years.

  9. Re:Hackers and Gearheads by adolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We need to protect people from doing stupid stuff

    No, we don't.

  10. Lexmark case by pcjunky · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Printer manufacturers tried this several years ago with chips in ink cartridges. The supreme court ruled it was ok to reverse engineer the code on these chips if it was required to allow other companies to make make compatible cartidges. I would think the same would apply to cars and after market parts and upgrades.

  11. Stallman was right by grumpy_old_grandpa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Stallman was right. Although in his story, it was about books, not babies or cars.

    https://www.gnu.org/philosophy...