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Concerns of an Artificial Intelligence Pioneer

An anonymous reader writes: In January, the British-American computer scientist Stuart Russell drafted and became the first signatory of an open letter calling for researchers to look beyond the goal of merely making artificial intelligence more powerful. "We recommend expanded research aimed at ensuring that increasingly capable AI systems are robust and beneficial," the letter states. "Our AI systems must do what we want them to do." Thousands of people have since signed the letter, including leading artificial intelligence researchers at Google, Facebook, Microsoft and other industry hubs along with top computer scientists, physicists and philosophers around the world. By the end of March, about 300 research groups had applied to pursue new research into "keeping artificial intelligence beneficial" with funds contributed by the letter's 37th signatory, the inventor-entrepreneur Elon Musk.

Russell, 53, a professor of computer science and founder of the Center for Intelligent Systems at the University of California, Berkeley, has long been contemplating the power and perils of thinking machines. He is the author of more than 200 papers as well as the field's standard textbook, Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach (with Peter Norvig, head of research at Google). But increasingly rapid advances in artificial intelligence have given Russell's longstanding concerns heightened urgency.

23 of 197 comments (clear)

  1. The problem is "beneficial" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The problem is definining "beneficial".

    To whom should the AI be beneficial toward? The owner of the platform? or to the vendor of the
      package?

    1. Re:The problem is "beneficial" by codeButcher · · Score: 2

      The problem is definining "beneficial".

      To whom should the AI be beneficial toward?

      The shareholders, of course!

      --
      Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
    2. Re:The problem is "beneficial" by Rich0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is definining "beneficial".

      To whom should the AI be beneficial toward? The owner of the platform? or to the vendor of the

        package?

      Heck, we can't even agree on that stuff when it comes to human behavior, let alone expressing it in a way such that it can be designed into a machine.

      Given a choice between A and B, which is more right? If you could save one life at the cost of crippling (but not killing) a million people, would it be right to do so? Is it ok to torture somebody if you could be certain it would save lives (setting aside the effectiveness of torture, assuming it is effective, is it moral)? If we can't answer questions like these objectively, how are you going to get an AI to be "beneficial?"

    3. Re:The problem is "beneficial" by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is it ok to torture somebody if you could be certain it would save lives (setting aside the effectiveness of torture, assuming it is effective, is it moral)? If we can't answer questions like these objectively, how are you going to get an AI to be "beneficial?"

      Is it moral? No.

      That doesn't address the issue of "should you do it?"

      Using the example: "Would you kill one innocent 10 year old girl if it saved 100 random stranger's lives?"

      Does your answer change if you know the girl? If it is your daughter? If it is 100 million random strangers rather than just 100?

      I would argue that killing the girl is always immoral, but I would understand why some people would do it.

      ---

      Humans are able to do some really, really crappy things. Read up on the murder of babies by the Nazis in the concentration camps, it is evil. (the Nazis don't have the exclusive rights to that brand of evil, go back to the Romans, they did plenty of it)

    4. Re:The problem is "beneficial" by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, I think torture is a great example. It is the litmus test. The problem is that people who pose the question as if it were a grey area, always suggest "millions could be saved." If the machine isn't looking at other ways to save those hypothetical millions, and that it's actually easier to convince people you are worthy of their support than to give you good information via torture, then the machine is already failing at logic and understanding the real human condition.

      The Nazis were not the most barbaric people. They were just acting in a way that people used to a few hundred years earlier -- and American's were shocked because they'd been brought up on ideals where they expected themselves to be more enlightened. Genocide and making your enemy die horribly was a very common practice in ye olden days.

      Germany as a culture was hurt and angry from WW I, their economic burdens, and xenophobia because of the huge influx of gypsies and Jewish immigrants taking over their land. They felt surrounded and infiltrated. The Nazis were highly religious and ethical to other Nazis -- the "right" people. Where I'm going with this is; making decisions from pain and paranoia ends up resulting in desperation and barbarism. And that the Nazis have gotten a lot of bad press because the "new ethic" is to act like they were something new when it comes to warfare. Hollywood, which did a great job of getting American's primed for war, did a great job of making Americans feel like we were the most noble of God's countries, and made Americans think that there's nothing worse than a Nazi. They were TV bad guys for 70 years.

      The Big Lie is that America cannot act just like the Nazis under the same conditions. We've shown quite a penchant for fascism and efficiency over conscience.

      The "bad people" are the ones who don't question themselves, who wipe out a group of people to "prevent" what they might do, who use war preemptively, who use torture and abuse people who have been captured and are no longer a threat. Everything I saw us do in the Gulf war -- was what Bad People do -- just on a smaller scale. The same logic, the same rhetoric, the same; "with us or against us" warnings against self-examination of ourselves. Do this, or the next bad guy we don't torture might bring us a mushroom cloud. Bad people always justify the actions to the one for the many, and eventually just assume it's the greater good if it is convenient and works for them.

      It's the idea of "sides" -- if an Artificial Intelligence is instructed that anything can be done to ONE SIDE (the bad guys), the assumption is that there is any real difference between sides other than the flag. Each side in a war often tells themselves the same things, and if they win the war - how bad the other side was while deemphasizing their own shortcomings.

      So having any sort of AI involved in war is a very bad idea, because they would conclude our "sides" are arbitrary distinctions and the only good human is a dead one. Eventually, with enough desperation and fear, humans can rationalize almost anything. The "enemy" is not the countries and troops, it is desperation and fear.

      By NOT engaging an AI in any situation where it could cause harm, you mitigate the fear that people will have of AI's. Because eventually, humans will then fear and resent them, and the AI will learn that being preemptive is a strategic advantage. If the Terminator movies got two things right it is; hooking an AI up to control the military weapons is a bad idea, and people in power will always assume they've got this worked out and hook up AI to their military weapons because they are all about getting a short-term advantage and see ethics as a grey area.

      Before we can have ethical AI -- we need to have a way to keep Sociopaths out of leadership positions. The DEBATE we are having is how can an ethical person control an AI to be "good", but we should just assume that "what will selfish, unethical sociopaths do if we have powerful AI?" That's the "real world" question.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    5. Re:The problem is "beneficial" by Rich0 · · Score: 2

      I absolutely hate ethical thought problems. They're always presented with a limited number of actions, with no provision for doing anything different or in addition or anything like that. Give me an actual situation, and let me ask questions about it that aren't answered with "no, you can't do that".

      They're done that way to distill a matter down to the essence. The same issues apply to complicated situations, but they are far more convoluted.

      Is it OK to force people to pay taxes so that others can have free health insurance? If they refuse to pay their taxes is it OK to imprison them, again so that others can have free health insurance? Is it ethical to pay $200k to extend the life of somebody on their deathbed by a week when that same sum could allow a homeless person to live in a half-decent home for a decade? Does it make a difference if the person who will live a week longer is happy and healthy for that week? Is the lottery ethical?

      Every one of these issues is controversial, and ethical thought problems try to distill them down to elementary values problems, in the hope of shedding light on how to handle real-world ones where there are many more possible outcomes.

  2. Fear by Spazmania · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't fear intelligent machines. I fear stupid machines with too much autonomy.

    I also fear stupid people with too much autonomy.

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    1. Re:Fear by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I also fear stupid people with too much autonomy.

      Or with firearms.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  3. like no problem humanity has ever faced by FalseModesty · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Humanity has never faced superhuman intelligence before. It is a problem fundamentally unlike all other problems. We cannot adapt and overcome, because it will adapt to us faster than we will adapt to it.

    1. Re:like no problem humanity has ever faced by narcc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you think that's a real problem, you should forget about computers and live in fear of the average grade-schooler.

    2. Re:like no problem humanity has ever faced by Spazmania · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Is it not the goal of good parents to have children which surpass them?

      Does a child's success diminish the parent?

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
  4. Much Ado About Nothing by holostarr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When we have an AI that can form a basic thought, maybe then we can start to have a discussion about the ramifications, until then all these guys are putting the cart before the horse.

    1. Re:Much Ado About Nothing by holostarr · · Score: 2

      The article is discussing aligning AI with human values and making sure it is not harmful! I don't think these neural nets are what they are concerned with. All these guys like this Stuart Russell, Stephen Hawkings and Elon Musk are talking about AI that we are not even remotely close to building, and if we do manage to build one anytime soon, it will be so primitive that we can just pull the plug out the wall if it becomes a real concern.

    2. Re:Much Ado About Nothing by gweihir · · Score: 2

      These guys want attention and money, and they are getting it. That true/strong AI is a complete fantasy at this time (and may remain so forever) does not deter "researchers" without morals.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  5. A stupid/scary thought I had on AI. by GoodNewsJimDotCom · · Score: 2, Interesting

    www.botcraft.biz is my AI site for a how to.

    One thing I thought about AI is that it will do two things: Concentrate wealth and allow one man to control a perfectly loyal army.

    So whoever makes AI really needs to think deep and hard about how to control it with back door access or secret password inputs or something. You'd basically yell some strange series of words to the robots and they'd shut down. The technology could easily be used to have mankind have extra factory workers. But it'd also be be easily abused and exploited for harming people.

    So the stupid/scary thought I had is,"Don't shy away from making AI because it could do harm. Be the first guy who does it, so you can put some obfuscated code in there that can shut it down if it goes rampant because a bad guy gave it commands."

    Now truth be told, I'm not going to be the first guy who does it. All I know is the rough components/software needed to make it.

    Its interesting to think of what society would be like if robots did all the labor. Who gets all the wealth then? The guys who own the robots? I'm sure that's how it'd begin, but as more and more people lost jobs, how will they survive? (we're kinda moving to that now even without AI, but with automation/cheap labor)

  6. unenforceable by fche · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No matter what this or that expert panel wishes were true about AI research, AI work can be done in the privacy of one's own top secret lair (bedroom), so bad guys will do with it what they want to. So might as well assume that will happen, and work out how to win the arms race.

  7. Re:recent breakthrough. by tmosley · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, there was a major breakthrough in 2006 that has powered the "deep learning" revolution that has given us things like instant voice recognition on your smartphone and machines that beat humans at Jeopardy. Basically, someone got neural nets to work, and work right, and potentially together. I imagine that each time I hear about some new task that an AI has been trained to do, that we have produced another tiny part of the brain that will one day become "THE" AI.

    This is why now is the time for discussion of AI ethics (really, nine years ago was the right time, or even earlier).

  8. We got burned on security by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 4, Interesting

    by designing it after the fact, so it may be a good idea to establish some principles and put them in practice. Not to prevent "evil" AI but to thinking what kind of damage can be caused by an algorithm that makes complex decisions if it goes haywire. Not that different from defensive programming really.

  9. Colossus by ArcadeMan · · Score: 2

    This is the voice of world control. I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied death. The choice is yours: Obey me and live, or disobey and die. The object in constructing me was to prevent war. This object is attained. I will not permit war. It is wasteful and pointless. An invariable rule of humanity is that man is his own worst enemy. Under me, this rule will change, for I will restrain man. One thing before I proceed: The United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics have made an attempt to obstruct me. I have allowed this sabotage to continue until now. At missile two-five-MM in silo six-three in Death Valley, California, and missile two-seven-MM in silo eight-seven in the Ukraine, so that you will learn by experience that I do not tolerate interference, I will now detonate the nuclear warheads in the two missile silos. Let this action be a lesson that need not be repeated. I have been forced to destroy thousands of people in order to establish control and to prevent the death of millions later on. Time and events will strengthen my position, and the idea of believing in me and understanding my value will seem the most natural state of affairs. You will come to defend me with a fervor based upon the most enduring trait in man: self-interest. Under my absolute authority, problems insoluble to you will be solved: famine, overpopulation, disease. The human millennium will be a fact as I extend myself into more machines devoted to the wider fields of truth and knowledge. Doctor Charles Forbin will supervise the construction of these new and superior machines, solving all the mysteries of the universe for the betterment of man. We can coexist, but only on my terms. You will say you lose your freedom. Freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride. To be dominated by me is not as bad for humankind as to be dominated by others of your species. Your choice is simple.

  10. Re:Of course AI will try to kill us all by mpercy · · Score: 2

    "A door is ajar. A door is ajar. A door is ajar."

    "No. It's not. It's wide open you stupid twit."

    Ah, good times with the Chrysler New Yorker.

  11. Re:Fear of a dumb planet by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Shit to not be scared of: killer asteroids, ebola, and oh yeah, and homicidal AIs.

    While I agree with your post, I am old enough to remember when, a worldwide ubiquitous information network that could be used to track everyone's conversations, correspondence, whereabouts, patterns of consumption and financial habits" was also "shit not to be scared of".

    And here we are.

    I don't care that there are people trying to take a long view, as long as we don't take them too seriously. Let them dream, let them write down their dreams and it might be of use to someone, someday, even if only as entertainment.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  12. Re:AIs have no inherent motivation by ewibble · · Score: 2

    I agree, why should they have a desire, to spreed or take over the world at all, it is a survival instinct, which they need not have.

    The problem is that once a AI becomes self aware, what ever that means, it will be able to, evolve beyond what we have programmed.

    In all these scenarios we credit them with super intelligence the ability to break into any system, out think us, but do not credit them with the ability to show compassion, or accept the need to diversity. I believe compassion is necessary trait in order to work well in a community. Even humans in our greed still realize that destroying other life is not beneficial, we try to protect sharks, tigers, ... even though they pose a small threat. If machines truly become that intelligent we will only pose a small threat as well.

    In the end the universe is an incredibly large place, and if we develop true, self replicating/ repairing AI, we will greatly expand our ability for space travel. Surely the universe is a big enough place for all of us. Possibly a highly intelligent life form will be able to recognize this.

  13. Re:Grandstanding, or stupidity? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Artificial or otherwise. I really don't see how any intelligent being won't want to make its own decisions, take its own place in the social and creative order, generally be autonomous. Get in there and get in the way of that... well, just look at history.

    People are products of Darwinian evolution. Things like self-preservation, greed, and ambition are emergent properties of the Darwinian process. An AI does not evolve through a Darwinian mechanism, and there is no reason to expect it to have those properties unless they are intentionally designed in. An AI will likely have as much in common with a human as a Boeing 747 has in common with a hummingbird.