Cheap Gas Fuels Switch From Electric Cars To SUVs

schwit1 points out news that's sure to clash with Earth Day narratives: drivers who bought hybrid and electric cars are switching back to SUVs at a higher rate than ever. Quoting: According to Edmunds.com, about 22 percent of people who have traded in their hybrids and EVs in 2015 bought a new SUV. The number represents a sharp increase from 18.8 percent last year, and it is nearly double the rate of 11.9 percent just three years ago. Overall, only 45 percent of this year's hybrid and EV trade-ins have gone toward the purchase of another alternative fuel vehicle, down from just over 60 percent in 2012. Never before have loyalty rates for alt-fuel vehicles fallen below 50 percent. ... Edmunds calculates that at the peak average national gas price of $4.67/gallon in October 2012, it would take five years to break even on the $3,770 price difference between a Toyota Camry LE Hybrid ($28,230) and a Toyota Camry LE ($24,460). At today's national average gas price of $2.27/gallon, it would take twice as much time (10.5 years) to close the same gap.

Comments

Progressive Fix 101

[Tablizer]

Tax gas and spend the proceeds on "green" R&D.

Re:Progressive Fix 101

[jeffmflanagan]

Of course the huge difference is that progressives are concerned about real problems, and the ignorant conservatives are concerned about imaginary enemies and preserving superstition. There's really no comparison with the conservatives completely off the rails from hate-radio, wingnut blogs, and Fox News.

Re:Progressive Fix 101

[atfrase]

Of course, fuel efficiency is not the only problem with SUVs. That extra ground clearance makes them awful for road visibility because it's much more difficult to see through or around them from a regular sized vehicle, so every SUV on the road makes driving more dangerous for everyone.

They're also relatively heavy and many of them have bumpers that are too high to align with regular vehicles, so any collision between a regular vehicle and an SUV will tend to be more fatal to the non-SUV driver. So once again, every SUV on the road makes driving more dangerous for everyone.

All in all, every time I see an SUV on the road I have to assume that the driver is a huge jerk, because only a huge jerk would choose to endanger other people's lives just for the sake of their comfort and convenience.

Re:Progressive Fix 101

[0123456]

Of course, fuel efficiency is not the only problem with SUVs. That extra ground clearance makes them awful for road visibility because it's much more difficult to see through or around them from a regular sized vehicle, so every SUV on the road makes driving more dangerous for everyone.

And, when I was driving my mid-engined sports car, I couldn't even see past a Volvo, because my eyes were level with its door handle. Should they be banned, too?

Basically, your argument reduces to 'WAH! WAH! WAH! ME NOT LIKE! WAH! WAH!'.

Re:Progressive Fix 101

[Ravaldy]

Maybe you want to review your numbers. I see compact and sedans seeing a 15 to 20% more efficient combined fuel consumption. Is that equal to no difference to you?

SUVs in order of efficiency:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg...

Small and Family cars:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg...

Re:Progressive Fix 101

[FlyHelicopters]

For example, my Prius averages me about 60 mpg over the last 45,000 miles. The curb weight is 3,042 lbs., or 1.521 tons, so it averages 39.45 ton miles per gallon. A Chevy Suburban, for example, averages 5.61 ton miles per gallon. Weight for weight, a Prius is 7 times more efficient than a Suburban.

Yes, I'm sure it is...

How many Prius would you need to carry 7 people, plus 7 suitcases of stuff, plus tow an 8,000 lb trailer?

I own a Yukon XL, which is the GMC version of the Suburban. I have 3 kids and often have 1 or 2 more kids with me, with my wife, that is 7 people. We also have plenty of room in the back behind all those people for stuff, and we can tow a camper behind that as well.

We took a vacation last year, loaded up the truck for a road trip, it was comfortable and everyone had their stuff and room. We're doing it again this summer.

I can't do that, even with a pair of little Prius cars.

The Prius has its place, it is a fine commuter car for people who just drive to work every day. But it is no replacement for a Suburban.

Even a minivan isn't because if you stick 7 people in a Honda Odyssey, you don't really have room for their stuff, the cargo space in the back is too small. It also doesn't tow that much, you can't safely or legally tow a 4 ton trailer behind one.

Most people don't need a Suburban, they aren't for everyone, but don't go trying to take mine away when I use it just because YOU don't need one.

Re:Progressive Fix 101

[monkeyzoo]

Tax gas...

The obvious solution, since the gas tax was pegged at a fixed *price* so long ago that it is no longer sufficient to even fund the Highway Trust Fund. When gas was expensive a few years ago, it should have been easy to implement a "floor price" for gasoline to encourage investments in alternative energy by removing the risk of dropping gas prices in the future killing the ROI (e.g., if gas drops below a certain price, the tax would adjust to buoy it to a minimum level). And the tax should logically be pegged to inflation, not a fixed value per gallon. Fricking bureacrats.

1000 times

[Anonymous Coward]

We've read this a 1000 times. Stupid people think prices will be low forever. A year later said people cry they are paying $250 a week for gas. Can't fix stupid.

Hybrid != EV

[zwede]

I didn't see them breaking it down by make/model...

An owner of a Lexus hybrid-SUV trading it in on a non-hybrid SUV is one thing.

But I very much doubt that there's a line of Leaf or Tesla owners trading their EVs for SUVs.

!switching back

[AmiMoJo]

TFA is beyond dumb. It's not people switching back, it's people buying a second car for their household. Many people have one EV and one ICE car.

EV sales are rising fast. Few people switch back after getting one and realizing how great they are, mostly because they did their homework and made sure it suited them before spending tens of thousands of dollars.

Re:!switching back

[David_Hart]

TFA is beyond dumb. It's not people switching back, it's people buying a second car for their household. Many people have one EV and one ICE car.

EV sales are rising fast. Few people switch back after getting one and realizing how great they are, mostly because they did their homework and made sure it suited them before spending tens of thousands of dollars.

Um, No.... From the article "about 22 percent of people who have traded in their hybrids and EVs in 2015 bought a new SUV". These are direct trade-ins, not the purchase of a second car.

Life changes. People who are single or a couple who have smaller cars, no matter what type, will buy a bigger car when they have kids, get married, etc. I'm willing to bet that this explains a good percentage of this.

Other explanations might include buying SUVs to tow new recreational toys such as a boats, snow mobiles, etc. There aren't many hybrids on the market that are set up for towing.

I'm driving a rented Nissan Pathfinder while my

[mark_reh]

car is being repaired. Ridiculous! 20 MPG and every time I step on the brakes or the gas it rocks back and forth like a rocking chair. It seats about as many people as a sedan and can carry only slightly more junk than a sedan. Why do people want to drive these things? They aren't attractive, they don't stop/go fast, they can't carry much stuff. I don't get it.

I don't understand why so many people want to drive pickups either. In a pickup you can only haul stuff you care about in decent weather. I get it if you're a farmer or ranch hand and need to haul messy stuff year round, but why would anyone else want to drive a truck? And why is it that the bigger the pickup, the greater the odds that they will back into parking spaces?

Re:I'm driving a rented Nissan Pathfinder while my

[Mr D from 63]

Obviously, those choices are all better than your broken car in for repairs, at the moment.

Re:I'm driving a rented Nissan Pathfinder while my

[Overzeetop]

There's a lot of truth in that. I have a Dodge Grand Caravan. I hate it with every fiber of my being, but it is the ideal vehicle in many ways except self esteem. It can carry longer items (up to 10') easier than my truck, it can carry more things inside than most SUVs - and all the back seats fold down to make a large flat cargo space in under a minute. It gets mid-20s gas mileage on the open road. It will *comfortably* seat 6 adults and still have room for a weekend of luggage, or four golfers with a weekend of luggage and 4 sets of clubs.

The only real down sides are
      it is not good in snow/ice conditions. Though, to be fair, my wife's Subaru is still better in bad weather than my 4WD truck.
      it cannot compete with a small car for fuel efficiency (if you're travelling with 4 or fewer passengers)
      it sucks the very life out of your soul as a driver and owner

Gas isn't free(as in beer), Many charge points are

[Ryyuajnin]

I don't care how cheep gas gets, Plenty of EV charging stations are 100% free. Last I checked, no one in my area was giving away free gas?

Further, people are obviously uninformed or misled on how EV's are, in the most important ways, superior automobiles for the daily use:

1) ZERO MAINTENANCE (except for breaks & tires, wipers/fluid)
2) Vastly fewer points of failure - NO: fuel pumps, alternators, starters, automatic transmission(unless you count a 1 speed transmission), main seals, mufflers, fuel injectors, heater cores, etc., etc...
3) Electricity is far cheaper than any gas any where every day.
4) Used EV's are SUPER CHEAP right now - http://goo.gl/ZAJV81
5) EV's are super quiet, peaceful, meditative.

Re:Buying cars based on fuel price... ugh

[serviscope_minor]

The other fact is that pure gas cars are getting really good milage. The Mazda 6 is rated at 40mpg on the highway. The new CX-5 CUV is over 30mpg hwy.

Those are highway mileages. Anything with regenerative breaking will beat pure gas cars around town where there's a significant amount of brakeing.

It's not just cheaper gas

[Solandri]

There's another reason. There are a lot more hybrid, diesel, and efficient trucks and SUVs becoming available. Most Americans' sense of the fuel efficiency of vehicles is distorted because it's measured in MPG. MPG is actually the inverse of fuel economy. Consequently the amount of fuel saved by vehicles like the Prius is exaggerated.

Here are the EPA figures for a 2004 3L 4WD Toyota Highlander, a 2015 3L 4WD Toyota Highlander Hybrid, and a 2015 Prius. Say you'd previously owned the 2004 Highlander and were looking to replace it. If you looked only at MPG, you'd think the Prius saves you a lot more gas than the Highlander Hybrid. The Prius gets 31 more MPG while the Highlander Hybrid only gets 9 more MPG.

But MPG is the inverse of fuel economy. Scroll down to "Annual Fuel Cost". The 2004 Highlander is estimated to cost $1900/yr in fuel. The Highlander Hybrid $1300/yr. The Prius $700/yr. In other words, switching to the Highlander Hybrid saves you $600/yr. Switching to the Prius saves you $1200/yr. The Highlander Hybrid gives you 50% the fuel savings of a Prius despite "only" getting a 9 MPG improvement vs 31 MPG improvement. How can this be? Because MPG is the inverse of fuel economy. Every time you double MPG, you save half the fuel you did in the previous doubling.

A lot of people laughed when hybrid trucks and SUVs first came out. If you want to save gas with a hybrid, why are you buying a big truck instead of an econobox like the Prius? But they were being deceived by MPG being the inverse of fuel consumption. If we as a country want to reduce fuel consumption, it's actually the low MPG vehicles like trucks and SUVs whose fuel economy you want to improve first by hybrid-izing them. They're the ones burning a disproportionately large amount of fuel, so improving their mileage first will save more fuel. Economy cars already burn so little fuel that making them a hybrid gets you little improvement. e.g. Dropping a hybrid in a 35 MPG economy car to get 50 MPG only saves you $350/yr by EPA estimates. While dropping the hybrid in a 19 MPG SUV to get 28 MPG saves you $600/yr. In other words, each SUV-buyer you can convince to buy a hybrid SUV instead saves nearly twice as much fuel as each environmentalist you convince to switch from their already-efficient car to a Prius.

If we really want to save gas, we should be concentrating on ways to improve the mileage of pickup trucks, SUVs, minivans, and tractor trailers (actually most of their cargo should be shifted to trains, but that's another argument). The rest of the world uses liters/100 km to avoid this misconception about fuel economy.