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Chinese Scientists Claim To Have Genetically Modified Human Embryos
Annanag writes: There were rumours — but now it's been confirmed. Chinese scientists have attempted the ethically questionable feat of genetically modifying human embryos. The scientists try to head off ethical concerns by using 'non-viable' embryos, which cannot result in a live birth, obtained from local fertility clinics. The study is a landmark — but also a cautionary tale.
Why is this a cautionary tale? What horrific outcome did they have that we are supposed to learn from?
We've been hindered by what is basically a cult ideology about unborn life that we cannot do experiments like this (legally) in the west. Now China, India and countries that do not have these religious groups hindering progress are making advances in all sorts of science. It is legal to experiment on creatures that are 98% similar to us, the embryos are practically indistinguishable from ours.
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Now we gotta compete with 1 billion people having IQ's of 300 and people skills.
Table-ized A.I.
A brave new world indeed.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
2. Not only did the splicing technique not work very often (28 / 86 embryos), but it also created lots of off-target mutations in other parts of the DNA. Both of these results were not expected.
Wrong. They only tested 54 of the embryo's afterward. 28/54 is a 51.8% success rate.
The off-target mutations in the remaining 26 embryos was not only expected, it was predicted about 16 years ago, when we first started experimenting with retroviral splicing vectors.
There is the "soul" debate and that does up the ante for many people.
Scientifically, however, a fertilized egg is the first point in the process where you have a new individual. That's a rather solid line to use, even if it is rather inconvenient for certain purposes. Of course, depending you your point of view, that may be a benefit of the line, not a problem.
A lot of ethical considerations stem from what you consider to be a "human". While you can set that point anywhere you want to, the problem is also that you can set that point anywhere you want to. With the ability to genetically engineer humans, it's far too convenient to state that they're not human until you're done altering their genome at the most obvious point of intervention.
It's the sort of loophole that can be very easily exploited to alter humans in any way you wish without hindrance. Trying to set anything but the strongest legal framework against this sort of behavior will likely fail because the ability to profit is considerable. You will always have your stereotypical mad scientist or perfectly rational "Chinese scientist" who simply does not accept your ethical position as persuasive.
Right now, under our current legal understanding of "personhood", widespread genetic modification of humans for any purpose whatsoever is entirely possible, and frankly, it's likely. The Chinese researchers here show that if something is possible to do, it is going to be made to happen, which should surprise no one. The only real question is, how do we deal with that reality and what does that mean for humanity? Genetic modification of humans can go either way, I just would not expect it to go without issues.
Stupid people tend to have a lot more kids than smart people. Citation: Idiocracy
If the smart people let the stupid people out-breed them into extinction, are they actually the smart ones?
While I'm sure you can find some zealots who believe this way, the majority of people have a different perspective. There is a reason we wish to have the ethical discussions and rules laid out (which technically exist, but China ignored them). Here is a short (not complete) list of ethical concerns. The numbers don't indicate a priority, just separating them clearly.
1. If you can manipulate genes to make someone unhealthy "healthy", you also have the ability to go the opposite direction. How can we ensure that does not happen?
2. How do you prevent cookie cutter humans and have individuals vs. a template human worker bee who people in power want?
3. How do we prevent manipulations which would generate hybrids?
4. How do you price these procedures so that all levels of society have the same options? If it's only in the hands of the rich and powerful it will not benefit society, it will only benefit those people who are rich and powerful.
5. How do you audit what other people are doing with genetic manipulation?
6. How do you punish those that break the ethical Law? Who has jurisdiction? What are the penalties?
The strong insinuation that the only people questioning ethics are Luddites is extremely offensive and disingenuous. There are a good number of people who study history and remember the last time some guy wanted perfect humans. They want some regulation to ensure that a situation similar, or worse, situation does not occur again. Or at least have the framework attempting to prevent it.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Perfect!
Now, from what I can tell, the majority is China followed by India India. I would suspect both are pretty much good with this, and more.
Here is my bet.
In the good ole US of A, this will quietly/'secretly' be used to build beefier quarterbacks and taller execs.
In Asia this will be publicly used to treat congenital diseases.
The US will scream in horror at what Asia is doing.
Have a nice day.