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Allegation: Philly Cops Leaned Suspect Over Balcony To Obtain Password

Posted by timothy on from the forget-it-jake-it's-the-city-of-brotherly-love dept.

An anonymous reader writes with this news from Ars Technica: If you want access to encrypted data on a drug dealer's digital device, you might try to break the crypto—or you might just try to break the man.

According to testimony from a police corruption trial currently roiling the city of Philadelphia, officers from an undercover drug squad took the latter route back in November 2007. After arresting their suspect, Michael Cascioli, in the hallway outside his 18th floor apartment, the officers took Cascioli back inside. Although they lacked a search warrant, the cops searched Cascioli's rooms anyway. According to a federal indictment (PDF), the officers 'repeatedly assaulted and threatened [Cascioli] during the search to obtain information about the location of money, drugs, and drug suppliers.' That included, according to Cascioli, lifting him over the edge of his balcony to try to frighten out of him the password to his Palm Pilot. That sounds like a good time for a duress password.

18 of 225 comments (clear)

  1. Done in movies... by mi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I remember it being done in a few movies — by the good guys — without anybody in the audience cringing. Nor do I remember any calls to boycott a movie over such things.

    So, if popular culture approves of and encourages it, can't blame the cops too much for doing it despite it being merely illegal...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Done in movies... by jklovanc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Some of of can tell the difference between fiction and reality. They get away with lots of things in movies that are not acceptable in real life.

    2. Re:Done in movies... by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You think Hollywood invented it? Are you horribly naive?

    3. Re:Done in movies... by houstonbofh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We have been well trained that it is OK for the good guys to bend the rules to stop the bad guys. Of course how can you be you are the good guys? https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    4. Re:Done in movies... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You seem to be under the illusion that people in general act on a moral, principled basis in all (or even most) aspects of life.

      You are sadly mistaken and delusional if you think that.

      You haven't spent nearly enough time around people if you are expecting moral condemnation from most movie goers.

      People are, not nearly as deep down as we'd like to think, complete fucking barbarians. And don't ever forget it.

      Most people don't commit crimes for fear of punishment, not because they morally object. On balance, the human race is far more amoral than people like to believe.

      And anything which relies on the inherent goodness of humans is probably useless. Because humans aren't inherently good.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    5. Re:Done in movies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So, if popular culture approves of and encourages it, can't blame the cops too much for doing it despite it being merely illegal...

      Yes, we can. Police shouldn't receive their training from works of entertainment any more than doctors or lawyers should.

      When you watch ER, House, the Practice, Better Call Saul, you'd never take it seriously if you were a member of those professions.

      Might as well take Japanese anime as lessons in history.

    6. Re:Done in movies... by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are loved and help is available.

      LOL, aww, that's sweet.

      Honestly, it's not a cry for help or expression of despair.

      People can be, and frequently are, good people. But in the aggregate, I don't ascribe "goodness" to humans -- especially when nobody is looking.

      As a species we're capable of a lot of good. But we're also capable of a lot of other stuff.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    7. Re:Done in movies... by Rakarra · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sorry, I fail to see, how mere racism [forward.com] or sexism [femitup.com] can lead to a boycott, while abuse of a suspect gets a pass. And not just once either!

      Because, in the US, many Americans are fine with the idea that doing bad things to bad people in pursuit of a good goal is a-ok.

      Jack Bauer could get away with torturing a guy because Jack Bauer was right, he was not corrupt, he fighting for the good guys, and the guy he was torturing was trying to hide details on some terrorist attack. That's easy to screenwrite for. The problem is that in real life, often the people who think they are right and good actually aren't, they torture the wrong person, and there are unintended consequences.

    8. Re:Done in movies... by mark-t · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hanging a person over a balcony with an implied threat to let them fall is quite definitely qualifies as a threat against a person's life, and that *IS* illegal. Even if no "permanent" harm was done, their actions fail on points 5, 6, 7, and 9 in The Ethics Scoreboard list of ethics fallacies.

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    9. Re:Done in movies... by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You think Hollywood invented it? Are you horribly naive?

      Maybe they didn't invent it, but the sure as heck made it socially acceptable in the minds of the masses.

    10. Re:Done in movies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >Most people don't commit crimes for fear of punishment, not because they morally object.

      I agree. But that's because most crimes are completely disconnected from anything that resembles morals. Some examples:

        - Making moonshine for yourself
        - Having a beer while fixing your car, or, for that matter, having a beer in the backseat while someone drives
        - Having consensual sex at 17 with another 17 year old
        - Shopping/opening on Holy Days (spelling intentional) (Outside the USA this is often illegal)
        - Swearing in public
        - Selling booze (in places where only the state may sell it)
        - Smoking a joint at home
        - Giving a cigarette to a 20 year old
        - Giving a beer to a 20 year old
        - Refusing to pay child support to a 24 year old (Outside the USA 25 years is the cutoff if the "child" chooses to attend university)
        - Choosing to receive compensation for sexual activity as an independent occupation
        - Drinking unpasteurized milk

      I could go on... I'm an atheist, and I can assure you, there are things that *aren't* crimes that I would not do because I believe they're immoral but not illegal. And, occasionally, the law actually does align with my moral beliefs (for example, murder, assault, and rape).

      >Because humans aren't inherently good.

      I believe they are, the issue is that we expect humans to be "good" in impossible situations, such as when "good" has no moral reasoning behind it (see the list above), or when "good" causes more danger (eg: Attempting the speed limit on a road that regularly sees nobody going at the limit or less than it--Stretches of the busiest highway in North America are actually like this).

    11. Re:Done in movies... by ultranova · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So what you are saying is that it's up to Hollywood to dictate what is acceptable in society?

      How do you learn what is acceptable in a society? By watching people do stuff and get praised or reviled for it. What does Hollywood do? Show people doing stuff and get labeled heroes or villains. They're an efficient propaganda machine, for good or ill.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    12. Re:Done in movies... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If murder were legalised most people would not start murdering. Most people don't commit serious crimes because of morality. Minor crimes, especially victimless ones, are another matter because there are fewer moral qualms.

      Fear of being caught tends to come far down the list. A long time ago in England almost all crimes carried the death sentence. 10 year old children were hung for stealing. It didn't really reduce the crime rate. If anything it just made people driven to crime by poverty more likely to murder the police trying to catch them, since death was certain anyway.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:Done in movies... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Capable isn't the same as well screw everyone else over at the first opportunity.

      I once left two bags if expressive shopping items on a train in Japan. Next day I collected them as a cleaner had handed them in. Could easily have taken some stuff and never been caught, but didn't. Once a friend left 50,000 yen in a restaurant. That's about â300 or $400. Went back the next day, it was all waiting for her, found by the staff and kept safe.

      In some cultures people are basically nice. It's actually quite shocking for British people when they go to Japan and people just trust them by default. In the UK that will get you screwed over fast.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    14. Re:Done in movies... by daremonai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Everything in TFS apparently comes from testimony (which may or may not be accurate, and may or may not be accepted as a fact by the court),

      One of the two police officers who dangled him over the balcony confessed to it in court, so as far as mere testimony goes, that's pretty good.

  2. This is called "rubber hose cryptoanalysis" by gweihir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The idea is that if you beat somebody with a rubber hose, that does not leave any mark.

    Also, stop the nonsense about duress-passwords. They do not work. Really not and no, your smart idea for any movie-like device that makes them work is just that: Movie-like but not real. On the other hand, trying to be smart with a duress password procedure can easily get you killed or worse.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  3. The best encryption: No encryption by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At least none that can be seen. You cannot demand keys for something you don't know of. If there's a container with a "please enter pass phrase" lock on top of it, it begs for a key.

    Unused space on your hard drive that looks like it contains old data from before you last partitioned, though...

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  4. Re:Oh Yeah!!! Oblig XKCD by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Someone has probably posted it while I typed this though..."

    That is because it was so obvious that it would have been best if nobody linked to it. Before I even clicked on the link to the article I knew some asshat was going to link to that xkcd comic.

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun