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University Overrules Professor Who Failed Entire Management Class

McGruber writes: After a semester of disrespect, backstabbing, lying, and cheating, Texas A&M Galveston Professor Irwin Horwitz had all he could take. He "sent a lengthy email to his Strategic Management class explaining that they would all be failing the course. He said the students proved to be incompetent and lack the maturity level to enter the workforce." Professor Horwitz's email cited examples of students cheating, telling him to "chill out," and inappropriate conduct. He said students spread untrue rumors about him online, and he said at one point he even felt the need to have police protection in class. "I was dealing with cheating, dealing with individuals swearing at me both in and out of class, it got to the point that the school had to put security guards at that class and another class," said Horowitz.

However, Vice President of Academic Affairs Dr. Patrick Louchouarn made it very clear that the failing grades won't stick. The department head will take over the class until the end of the semester, according to school officials.

81 of 355 comments (clear)

  1. Fast track by Carewolf · · Score: 5, Funny

    Those students sounds like perfect management material. Don't fail them, but them on fast-track to vice presidents of fortune 500 companies! They will fit the job perfectly.

    1. Re:Fast track by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, while I agree with the sentiment, the key lesson they have failed and perhaps the single most important one: don't get caught. Clearly the professor is correct, these students have not demonstrated mastery of the material and need to retake the course.

    2. Re:Fast track by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Getting caught is ok, think of how many managers get caught and at worst they're sent off with a golden parachute. And they even learned a valuable lesson: Even if you get caught, someone will come and bail you out.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Fast track by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yet "that won't stick". Too much tuitition to fail?

    4. Re:Fast track by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Actually...sad.

      These might just have really *BEEN* some of the coming entitlement generation kids, the same ones that always got a trophy growing up just for showing up at a game or whatever.

      Maybe they all did deserve to fail?? I hope they at least have to take the class over and aren't all given automatic passing grades whether they deserve it or not...?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    5. Re:Fast track by umghhh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They fucked up, got caught and prevailed - seems to me that they passed the exam.

    6. Re:Fast track by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sorry, what? 2-4 amount to "waaah, I don't want to actually learn the stuff I'm taking in school because it's too hard and gets in the way of my social life".

      The answer to this is "too fucking bad".

      Everyone else who got an education had to deal with this stuff too.

      I'm afraid I have zero sympathy for a bunch of kids who think it takes too much effort to complete their education.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    7. Re:Fast track by DarkOx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes well the Vice President of the university certainly did not fail his management course!

      He recognizes that most University students today are someones precious little snowflake. That someone might stop sending checks, students may transfer and worse the best prospective students might choose other institutions where there is not a perception their on-time graduation plans might be derailed by capricious professor.

      I am sorry unless you have hard evidence of a major and specific conspiracy that everyone of your students participated in you CANT fail an entire class. The reality is there was probably a few students who are innocent or whose infractions don't justify an automatic failing grade, so its punishing the innocent. The optics of that just are not appropriate for an academic institution.

      If the professor was at all smart, he would have identified the worst offenders built a solid case for them and crucified them before an expulsion board to send a message to the rest of the students, and any one taking his class in the coming semesters, that he isn't to be 'fucked with'. He probably would have gotten support for the university and the public for doing so rather than tossed under the bus. Like it or not politics and perceptions matter, you'd think a business professor would know that.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    8. Re:Fast track by geekmux · · Score: 2

      No, while I agree with the sentiment, the key lesson they have failed and perhaps the single most important one: don't get caught. Clearly the professor is correct, these students have not demonstrated mastery of the material and need to retake the course.

      I'm not quite sure which decade you're referring to, but what the hell makes you think executives today need to hide?

      They're fucking untouchable. You can't jail them. You can't even fine them without them laughing hysterically in your face as you watch them pull out their wallet to pay it.

      They scoff at your concept of hiding, because they know there's not a damn thing you can do to them or their activity, legal or otherwise.

      And ironically, these students are demonstrating the brash fucking arrogance it takes.

    9. Re:Fast track by Minwee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have found professors who are fresh out of the trenches often fail to comprehend, the following.
      1. These students are taking more than just His class.
      2. Chances are the class is required. Meaning most of the students don't have too much interest in the class.
      3. The students are filled with other concerns then just that class. Finding a girl/boy friend, trying to keep on on what he should socially be.
      4. Because he specialized in that topic for so long, there isn't any empathy on the fact that people just don't get it, the first time.

      And what the students fail to comprehend is this:

      That's. Their. Problem.

      This isn't Kindergarten. Nobody is there to hold your hand. Just because you paid for the class doesn't mean that anybody owes you a passing grade. If you can't be bothered to pay attention to class, or don't think it's important, or just don't like the professor, then _you_ get to deal with that. If you can't, then you're going to fail.

      And if "But I have other classes!" is the best excuse that you can come up with, then you're going to deserve it.

    10. Re:Fast track by gbjbaanb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe you should click the link to his CV, he's been teaching in some capacity at universities since 1994. So I rather think its more the entitlement culture of the children he had the misfortune to teach.

      Seems to me they were only there to pay for a certificate, not an education.

    11. Re:Fast track by OhPlz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When I was taking electrical engineering classes, we had a midterm while the professor was out. Being the future engineers that we were, we decided upon ourselves to make the midterm a group effort. One of the non-science professors walked by at one point and saw that and decided to make a big deal over it. Funny thing was, our defense was that part of the lessons in that course was to teach the students how to work collaboratively and the importance of that type of effort in engineering. Our professor admitted that the midterm wasn't clear on whether it was to be done individually or not (poor requirements), so we went from being threatened with expulsion to hearing that what we did was actually correct given the recent lessons we had.

      I can't tell from this one if it's the professor or not, but it sure could be. Just like any profession, there are good ones and there are not so good ones. Some just like to start fires.

    12. Re:Fast track by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The worst offenders could have been on sports teams or from a family that donates.

    13. Re:Fast track by anonymousJUGGERNAUT · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The "coming entitlement generation" has been on its way since at least the late 1980s when it was supposedly my cohort...and probably much, much longer. Although you can always find a few examples of entitled brats--and that's nothing new, of course--the whole "kids these days" thing appears to me to still be as much of a myth as it always has been. From https://www.insidehighered.com... : "Asked if the decision to fail every one of the 30-plus enrollees was fair to every student, Horwitz said that "a few" students had not engaged in misbehavior, and he said that those students were also the best academic performers. Horwitz said he offered to the university that he would continue to teach just those students, but was told that wasn't possible, so he felt he had no choice but to fail everyone and leave the course." "A spokesman for the university said via email that 'all accusations made by the professor about the students' behavior in class are also being investigated and disciplinary action will be taken' against students found to have behaved inappropriately. The spokesman said that one cheating allegation referenced by Horwitz has already been investigated and that a student committee cleared the student of cheating." It looks to me like the instructor had a melt-down and attempted to combine rage quitting and collective punishment. I'm sure some of the kids were a-holes, but not all of them were, by the instructor's own admission.

    14. Re:Fast track by jythie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Which brings up the question of was the classroom really rampant with disrespect and cheating in the first place?

    15. Re:Fast track by jythie · · Score: 2

      Looks like he had a rather long teaching career, including with undergrads, but got pretty poor reviews from students.

      From bits about his bio, sounds like he was a darling (for research) at other universities but took this new job due to his wife switching positions, so he was new there.

      It is quite possible that this is someone who should not have been teaching but was protected by his position, then threw a fit when he was not given preferential treatment and power by administration. In other words, it kinda sounds like he might be the 'special snowflake' crashing into reality.

    16. Re:Fast track by anonymousJUGGERNAUT · · Score: 2

      Right. And while I'm sure that depends in part on the operational definitions being used for "rampant," "disrespect," and "cheating," I find it plausible that the professor was the main problem. Maybe the only problem.

    17. Re:Fast track by dcollins · · Score: 3, Informative

      At least where I work, the administration in the past has sent a clear signal that -- while we officially do have such a disciplinary board -- they really don't want anyone invoking those procedures. Partly this is because now students are entitled to legal representation in those proceedings, and the whole process gets overwhelmingly complicated and expensive. The current recommended policy is "get the student to privately agree to a failing mark on that test", because that doesn't trigger the legal representation.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    18. Re:Fast track by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I am sorry unless you have hard evidence of a major and specific conspiracy that everyone of your students participated in you CANT fail an entire class. The reality is there was probably a few students who are innocent or whose infractions don't justify an automatic failing grade, so its punishing the innocent. The optics of that just are not appropriate for an academic institution.

      Yup. By making a blanket judging that is clearly unfair to at least a few students, the professors is demolishing his own case. Challenging the 'F' is a slam dunk. When it came to having guards in his class, he should have quietly made his ultimatum to the department already -- that they were going to back him with X, Y, and Z or he would resign. That it came to this suggests egregious failures by the school itself.

    19. Re:Fast track by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's the American way, we bail you out

    20. Re:Fast track by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is what happens when the educators and the test administrators are the same people. The university looks bad if too many of its students fail, so it has a direct incentive to pass them even if they don't deserve it.

      Universities should teach, but not certify. Certification should be done by a separate organization that does not also teach.

    21. Re:Fast track by foreverdisillusioned · · Score: 2

      Instead of parroting the decades-old conservative meme about children having too much self-esteem, maybe you should direct the ire where it really belongs: at the anachronistic university system and the government that props it up. A four year degree is now required for jobs that didn't even require a high school diploma when my father was my age. Students are not only saddled with debt for decades, but they are wasting four years of their life on material that largely will not be used in their job. And the universities themselves *of course* no longer give a crap about whether the students are learning anything--they aren't in the business of creating scholars. They are rent seekers in the business of subsidizing their own unnecessary degrees in addition to the now almost entirely superfluous physical campus infrastructure.

      I don't blame the students at all for not taking their class seriously. They were not taking a course on partial differential equations. They were taking a course on "Strategic Management", and they apparently perceived (correctly) that this was obviously a joke being had at their own expense.

    22. Re:Fast track by jmauro · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The "coming entitlement generation" has been on its way since at least the late 1980s when it was supposedly my cohort...and probably much, much longer.

      Those articles started to appear in the 1880's. Every upcoming generation has been described as some sort of variant of entitled, lazy or "me first". It's the "get off my lawn" version of a newspaper editorial.

    23. Re:Fast track by bradley13 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "If the professor was at all smart, he would have identified the worst offenders built a solid case for them and crucified them before an expulsion board to send a message to the rest of the students, and any one taking his class in the coming semesters, that he isn't to be 'fucked with'."

      Exactly this.

      It sounds like Prof. Horwitz did just about everything wrong. He wasn't objective, he didn't grade students individually, and he blind-sided the school administration.

      You do get crappy classes once in a while. I had a class a couple of years ago - it's a class that I teach every semester - but this particular group of students was just special. The social leader of the class hated the subject. He convinced most of the rest of the class to follow his lead: skipping lectures, or coming to class only to surf or game, not doing assignments, etc.. He was a total pain in the a**, and most of the class followed his lead.

      Fine. You buckle down and teach. You focus on the students who aren't being idiots. At the end of the course, you write a final exam of exactly average difficulty, make extra sure that the questions are clear, and that the grading criteria will stand up to a formal review process. You warn the administration of what is coming. Then, you fail everyone who deserves to fail, based on absolutely objective criteria. In my case, it was 3/4 of the class.
      Importantly, those students who resisted the peer pressure - they did just fine on the exam.

      --
      Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    24. Re:Fast track by Orange+Crush · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just because you paid for the class doesn't mean that anybody owes you a passing grade.

      No, but it should at least be possible to earn a passing grade and learn something in the class, if a student is willing to work for it. Failing the entire class robs them of that chance, regardless of how they actually behaved.

    25. Re:Fast track by NotDrWho · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I am sorry unless you have hard evidence of a major and specific conspiracy that everyone of your students participated in you CANT fail an entire class. The reality is there was probably a few students who are innocent or whose infractions don't justify an automatic failing grade

      The reality is that this professor sounds like a paranoid wackjob. This doesn't sound like a case of student entitlement. It sounds more like the case of a professor who's mentally ill and probably has a long history of this sort of behavior. I knew a few of these sorts back in university, though none as bad as this guy. The university couldn't get rid of them because they had tenure. And students dreaded having to take them because they knew that they would have to deal with all sorts of insane behaviors.

      I had one nutjob prof who would throw a temper tantrum like a three-year-old and storm out of class if one student showed up late. Nevermind if the late student had a great excuse, nevermind that this unfairly punished the 30 students who showed up on time, nevermind that this motherfucker had a JOB to do and said job *wasn't* to act like a petulant child...nope, Senor Egomaniac had to have his moment in the drama-queen spotlight. And he was equally erratic in everything else he did. You would turn in two papers of equal quality and one would come back with an A+ one week and the other would come back all marked up with red ink with a D grade the next week. And you never knew what might set him off. Students quickly learned to shut the fuck up and NEVER ask questions in class. But then he would get pissed because we WEREN'T asking questions. We finally learned to just parrot his own views back to him with praise whenever he asked for student input.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    26. Re:Fast track by Muros · · Score: 4, Informative

      The "coming entitlement generation" has been on its way since at least the late 1980s when it was supposedly my cohort...and probably much, much longer.

      Those articles started to appear in the 1880's. Every upcoming generation has been described as some sort of variant of entitled, lazy or "me first". It's the "get off my lawn" version of a newspaper editorial.

      “Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.” - Socrates

    27. Re:Fast track by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's the American way, the administration bails you out if you pay their salary.

      We don't bail out people, if there is not something in it for the people doing the bailing-of-out.

      We bail out large investment banks that donate to political campaigns and swap managers with the treasury department, but we don't bail out people who can't pay their mortgage.

    28. Re:Fast track by meerling · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As security guards had been assigned, I doubt there was any form of "blind-siding" going on. Perhaps the administration were wearing blinders, but they certainly were aware that things were seriously out of whack.

    29. Re:Fast track by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 2

      Just from a probability perspective, it seems more likely to get one bad professor than 30 bad students. Obviously there are always going to be some bad apples, but most courses don;t devolve to this.

      I was in 2 classes with rampant cheating. I didn't participate. One class was just an ethnomusicology elective. The other was a digital logic circuit lab, that I was pretty good at to begin with. I'd like to think I wouldn't cheat even if I had a strong incentive, but I was never in that position.

      In my other classes, cheating was an instant expulsion (maybe with 1 second chance if you cried a lot). You didn't even want to be suspected of cheating, because the professors would just report you and let the (whoever) decide if it was true.

      Overall there was a general atmosphere that the path of least resistance was learning the material (which would no doubt be vitally important in the subsequent classes anyway). That's the way it should be.

      There was a big group of Koreans that managed to keep cheating for a few quarters without getting caught, but that fizzled out when we got passed the remedial stuff and all the tests just became open book, and no longer trivially easy to cheat on even if you wanted to.

      By the end, the closest thing to cheating was people getting luck+sympathy, like turning in a shit thesis with 1 judge seeing it for what it was, 1 judge feeling sorry for the person, and the other judge not showing up and defaulting to a pass. 2-1 == pass.

    30. Re:Fast track by Grishnakh · · Score: 3

      The exact same thing has happened here: these students pay lots of money in tuition to this school (plus it's hoped they'll become generous alumni later), so the school bails them out for failing miserably in this class.

      If this were a free public school (as in no tuition or other costs for students, just a free education), this wouldn't be happening.

    31. Re:Fast track by LaurenCates · · Score: 2

      I've had students pull any of the following on me:

      1. You're mean
      2. I paid good money for this class
      3. I'm going broke
      4. I'm on my period
      5. Can I take the first test again? (This one well into the second half of the semester)
      6. The class talked about the final, and we want to know if you'll be grading on a curve.

      Had I continued to teach after that, I would have put a headline over my syllabus that said:

      "No curves EVER. One of the lessons of my class that you will learn over and over again is that we build on the material we learn. If you don't have the time to do it right the first time, you will NEVER have the time to do it over."

      --
      Some people don't believe in fairies. I don't believe in The Patriarchy.
    32. Re:Fast track by lgw · · Score: 2

      The top execs at the biggest companies are far from untouchable - they get fired by the board more often than you think (Balmer is a recent famous example; I think I've worked at 3 companies now where the board fired the CEO and most of his reports).

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    33. Re:Fast track by pla · · Score: 4, Interesting

      it sounds like it is his first time with undergrads.

      A&M lists this as a 400 level course - As in, targeted at graduating seniors (and actually has that as a requirement to take it without an override). Technically still undergrad, but if those students haven't mastered the concept of "pay attention and don't screw around", they won't, and deserve to fail.


      1. These students are taking more than just His class.
      2. Chances are the class is required.


      The BBA curriculum at A&M lists that as the only required class for 8th semester students (with three other electives) - It counts as the goddamned capstone course for the degree. Any student who has too hefty of a workload that semester aside from that one class has only themselves to blame.


      3. The students are filled with other concerns then just that class. Finding a girl/boy friend, trying to keep on on what he should socially be.

      Sooo Not His Problem that you have me at a loss for words on how to phrase this more strongly. When paying $22,470 per year for a piece of magical job-paper - Sit down, shut up, and pay attention, or GTFO.


      4. Because he specialized in that topic for so long, there isn't any empathy on the fact that people just don't get it, the first time.

      I have taken strategic management (though not at A&M). Really not much to not "get" - You learn about Michael Porter and SWOTs and Jack Welch. Even if the professor completely sucks, you just watch powerpoint slides and memorize facts for the test. If he doesn't suck, you have fluffy group case study discussions where you basically have no wrong answers. If you don't "get" it at that point in a business degree... Well, to reiterate my opening paragraph, you shouldn't pass.


      You want to know what really happened here? In every class, you have a handful of waste-of-flesh whiners who will bitch about every lecture as too boring (or alternatively, that the professor actually expects them to participate instead of letting them read Facebook on their phones in the back of the room); every assignment as too hard (even the ones where the professor all but gives the answers right in class); every paper too long. This poor bastard just managed to get an entire class packed full of them.

    34. Re:Fast track by Moses48 · · Score: 3, Informative

      misattributed to Socrates.
      a paraphrase of a quote from Aristophanes' Clouds, (see w:The Clouds,) a comedic play known for its caricature of Socrates.

      From http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Y...

    35. Re:Fast track by gweihir · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed. If the university administration had any stones, they would let this stand. This way the only thing the students learned is that their behavior is entirely fine, including getting caught, and that they just need friends in high places and any measure of incompetence on their part will not affect their career options at all.

      This thing is what makes a country lose ground internationally and eventually end up on the 3rd world trash heap. You can prop things up for a wile by importing skilled people and stealing industrial secrets from "friends", but that goes only so far.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    36. Re:Fast track by mt42 · · Score: 4, Informative

      This article suggests the most likely source for the quote commonly attributed to Socrates was actually crafted by a student, Kenneth John Freeman, for his Cambridge dissertation published in 1907.

      Looking at the digital copy of the dissertation linked in the above article, it looks like the source for the Socrates quote is a combination of two sections of text on page 74 of the disertation.

      Socrates quote from grandparent:
      “Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”

      Quote noted as misattributed to Socrates and suggested as paraphrased from Aristophanes at end of wiki link from parent:
      The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

      Excerpt from Kenneth John Freeman's 1907 dissertation:
      [Lines 5-7] "The counts of the indictment are luxury, bad manners, contempt for authority, disrespect to elders, and a love for chatter in place of exercise. [Lines 19-21] Children began to be the tyrants, not the slaves, of their households. They no longer rose from their seats when an elder entered the room; they contradicted their parents, chattered before company, gobbled up the dainties at table, and committed various offences against Hellenic tastes, such as crossing their legs. They tyrannised over the paidagogoi and schoolmasters."

    37. Re:Fast track by markdavis · · Score: 2

      >"This isn't Kindergarten. Nobody is there to hold your hand. Just because you paid for the class doesn't mean that anybody owes you a passing grade. If you can't be bothered to pay attention to class, or don't think it's important, or just don't like the professor, then _you_ get to deal with that. If you can't, then you're going to fail."

      THIS, EXACTLY. I taught college Linux/Unix classes part-time for three years (that is all I could tolerate) and after the very first semester it was obvious how I would intro the following classes. So this was my day one speech from that point after (roughly):

      "This is college, not high school and not elementary school. I don't care if you don't complete assignments, nor do I care why. I don't care if you come to class or not. I don't care if you ask questions or not. I don't care if you sleep in class. As long as you are not disruptive to others in class, you can do anything you want during non-testing periods... you are all adults and are paying a lot of money to be here. I will do my very best to help you succeed in this class, if you want that help. I will try to make the material interesting and fun, too. But if you goof-off, don't pay attention, don't study, and don't complete assignments, it is highly likely you will fail this class. And that would be a shame."

      Amazingly, quite a few students seemed surprised.... and usually those were the ones that later did poorly.

    38. Re:Fast track by cavreader · · Score: 3, Informative

      Paying tuition does not mean a University or college never prevents anyone from failing out of school. Full paying students fail out of school quite frequently and are not "bailed out" in an effort to create future alumni. So your statement is patently false and offered with no proof. In this particular case I am sure there were some students who passed the required tests without cheating but ended up being punished because of a bunch of immature morons causing all the trouble. By providing security for this professor the university evidently took the threats of violence claims seriously. The University was correct in preventing the whole class from failing and now they should try and make an effort to prove which students were cheating.

    39. Re:Fast track by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      Paying tuition does not mean a University or college never prevents anyone from failing out of school.

      Apparently, it does, as this case proves.

      Full paying students fail out of school quite frequently and are not "bailed out" in an effort to create future alumni.

      Apples and oranges. Those are individuals, this is an entire class.

      This is no different than the Big Bailout of 2008. If it were just one bank, the government would have let them go bankrupt (and in fact, IIRC there were one or two banks that did die out). But because it was so many banks, the government bailed them out.

      Yes, universities frequently allow individual students to fail out; it's expected, and par for the course. They wouldn't be respected institutions if they just passed everyone; the whole idea is to "weed out" poor students so that only the good ones graduate. But this case is about an entire class failing at once. They won't allow that; it's too much of a disruption to their scheduling and income stream. They're set up to have a small number of students fail out and either leave the school, or retake the class, or switch majors. But a whole class means now that many students don't have the prerequisite needed to proceed to some other classes, which hugely affects their class scheduling. It's too much of a disruption to the institution's operation, just like having too many big banks fail at once is too much of a disruption to the economy, so they get a bail-out.

  2. Hard to take sides by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With so little information it's hard to take sides. Is it wrong of me to think that maybe this professor is incompetent AND the entire class still deserves to fail?

    1. Re:Hard to take sides by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Thinking the same thing here, methinks.

      If what the guy says is true? A competent prof would have taken the most egregious examples and kicked them out of his class - right after informing them in front of one and all that they in particular will fail the semester, why they will fail, that they are to leave immediately, and that anyone else in class who exhibits similar behavior will get similar treatment. Do it early and as soon as trouble arises, so that you can solve the problem while it is still small and contained, much like you would control a small brush fire. It's a tried-and true tactic: make an expensive and career-harming example out of the ones who deserve it, and the rest will fall in line very quickly.

      ...did they not teach this guy how to control a classroom, or at least leadership skills, when he was getting his (bare required minimum to be a full-blown management professor) MS in management?

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:Hard to take sides by MozeeToby · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He is certainly incompetent. Any idiot could see that the university wouldn't let a blanket fail stick, you can't fail an entire class based on group behavior that's just not the way academics works. If everyone in the class was really that bad, he should have been documenting specific incidents and then failed them individually at the end of the semester.

    3. Re:Hard to take sides by HappyHead · · Score: 5, Informative

      From the articles I've read about it, the prof even admits that some of the class were honest, hard working, and doing well academically in the class. He threw a temper tantrum because some of the other students were mean to him, and failed all of them, good and bad.

      Also, at least one of his cheating allegations was investigated and overturned by their university's administration. This sounds mostly like sour grapes.

      I taught at a university for about ten years before moving off to private industry (sessional prof jobs pay poorly) and I've run into almost every behavior he complained about in the article and more, but never even once would I have considered punishing the students who were actually showing up and doing the work for the behavior of the ones who don't.

      This guy picked the wrong way to deal with his problems, and the university administration is right to overturn his grading. Especially since he even admits that not all of the students deserved it. The USA is full of lawyer-happy lawsuit maniacs, and this is a situation where the university would be absolutely buried in litigation, which it would rightfully lose, if they didn't overturn it and assign grades based on academic performance.

    4. Re:Hard to take sides by SecurityGuy · · Score: 2

      This sounds quite plausible to me. I can't imagine an ENTIRE class full of people behaving the way the prof suggests. Some, sure, but all?

      I had a much more minor incident long ago where a prof sent all the students interim reports warning us that we were failing the course. Imagine my surprise, since I had an A average in the class (it was a math class with clearly defined grading, so tracking my grade was possible and easy). When I asked him about it, he admitted he made a mistake. So many people were failing, he forgot the one or couple who weren't. No real harm done, but I can't say my end of course review for him was stellar.

    5. Re:Hard to take sides by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      With so little information it's hard to take sides.

      Apply Occam's Razor.
      Which is more likely:
      1. The professor is incompetent, and incapable of classroom management.
      2. Every single student failed to learn the material due to their own fault.
      The probability of #1 is roughly 10%.
      The probability of any single student in #2 is roughly 10%. But, assuming there are 20 students (a number I made up since TFA doesn't say), then the probability of ALL 20 deserving to fail is 20 * 10%, or 0.000000000000000001%.
      Some of my assumptions and made up numbers may be wrong, but without further information, I think it is reasonable to assume that the professor is the problem. I hope he isn't tenured.

    6. Re:Hard to take sides by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2

      Also, at least one of his cheating allegations was investigated and overturned by their university's administration. This sounds mostly like sour grapes.

      Maybe. In a kind-of related note, though, I heard of one Brown CS professor who found pretty damning evidence that some students had cheated, and the University refused to do anything at all about it.

      I can understand how a professor's patience would reach a limit.

      That don't justify his particular response, I'm just saying I can see why he'd lose it.

    7. Re:Hard to take sides by HappyHead · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, we can eliminate possibility two right off the bat, since the prof admitted in an interview that some of the students in the class were actually good students and doing well academically, and he failed them all anyways.

      Also, other details skipped in the top-linked article: The class size is somewhere just above 30 (likely less than 40), the prof is non-tenured, at least one of his cheating accusations was already investigated and overturned as without merit, and there apparently multiple complaints about him from past students already.

    8. Re:Hard to take sides by McGruber · · Score: 2
      Thank you for sharing that informative article, which quotes the actual emailed reasons for the failing grade:

      You all lack the honor and maturity to live up to the standards that Texas A&M holds, and the competence and/or desire to do the quality work necessary to pass the course just on a grade level. I will no longer be teaching the course, and all are being awarded a failing grade."

      The article also explains why the Professor, a guy with 20 years of college teaching experience, is in his 1st year at Galveston:

      The professor, who is new to Galveston, relocated (to a non-tenure-track position) because his wife holds an academic job in Houston, and they have had to work hard to find jobs in the same area. He stressed that the students' failings were academic as well as behavioral. Most, he said, couldn't do a "break-even analysis" in which students were asked to consider a product and its production costs per unit, and determine the production levels needed to reach a profit.

      In most of his career, he said, he has rarely awarded grades of F except for academic dishonesty. He said he has never failed an entire class before, but felt he had no choice after trying to control the class and complaining to administrators at the university.

      Students have complained that they need this class to graduate, and Horwitz said that based on the academic and behavioral issues in class, they do not deserve to graduate with degrees in business fields (the majors for which the course is designed and required).

    9. Re:Hard to take sides by penguinoid · · Score: 2

      Yes, the professor failed the entire management class. He just couldn't manage the class.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    10. Re:Hard to take sides by dcollins · · Score: 2

      "A competent prof would have taken the most egregious examples and kicked them out of his class"

      Generally speaking, that is simply not within a professor's power to enact. At least where I teach, instructors officially have the right to remove a disruptive student from one single class session, but not ever from the course wholesale. Even that one-session right, when I've tried to enact that (a number of years ago), was not actually enforced or recognized by security or supported by administration staff.

      Likewise, there's officially a disciplinary panel process, but the school has signaled in the past that they don't want us invoking that.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
  3. Why even have a class ? by itzly · · Score: 2

    Why bother with classes? Just give everybody a passing grade.

    1. Re:Why even have a class ? by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why bother with classes? Just give everybody a passing grade.

      Isn't that all the entitled youngsters care about anyway - good grades, not actually learning anything?

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    2. Re:Why even have a class ? by MozeeToby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is actually quite the opposite. I find it hard to believe that there wasn't a single person in the back of class just trying to get their work done and get out. Not everyone swears in their day to day life, let alone at authority figures. Not everyone cheats. Not everyone lies.

    3. Re:Why even have a class ? by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If all of the people coming out of your school have diplomas, but no clue ... eventually people look at diplomas from your school as being worthless.

      Oddly enough, people expect diploma actually translates into "has received an education".

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:Why even have a class ? by g0bshiTe · · Score: 2

      From what I've seen of our last half dozen new hires for the dept, yeah diplomas are worthless.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    5. Re:Why even have a class ? by dcollins · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I ran into this line in a Wikipedia article last weekend and just stared at it in amazement for a few minutes:

      "Others may want a high school diploma to represent primarily a certificate of attendance, so that a student who faithfully attended school but cannot read or write will still get the social benefits of graduation."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-stakes_testing

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    6. Re:Why even have a class ? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Their loss.

      In my experience, people from "lower class" are not only far cheaper to hire (because to them 2000 bucks is actually "serious money"), they will also work pretty hard because they fear they'd lose that job and it's far less likely that they have some kind of feeling of entitlement. Kids born with the silver spoon are far more likely to grow up to be spoiled adults who went through one of those "everyone's a winner" feelgood-bullshit education systems that rewarded them like showing up is some sort of accomplishment.

      Seriously, people who worked their way to their position and their knowledge are BY FAR superior to everyone who went to what's considered some sort of prestigious school.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:Why even have a class ? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2

      Some high schools give out both diplomas and certificates of attendance. Everyone gets to walk during graduation, etc. It seems to be an adequate compromise.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
  4. Re:Typical American University by ichthus · · Score: 2

    Watch the documentary Ivory Tower. It's all about keeping graduation stats up, which leads to more enrollment and, you guessed it, more money.

    --
    sig: sauer
  5. The correct decision by wile_e8 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've seen a lot of whining about special snowflakes always needing passing grades, but in this case I think the overrule was the correct call. From the Inside Higher Ed write up on it, this is the section that gets me:

    Asked if the decision to fail every one of the 30-plus enrollees was fair to every student, Horwitz said that "a few" students had not engaged in misbehavior, and he said that those students were also the best academic performers. Horwitz said he offered to the university that he would continue to teach just those students, but was told that wasn't possible, so he felt he had no choice but to fail everyone and leave the course.

    Instead of failing just the students that deserved it and giving appropriate grades to the rest of the students, he decided to fail everyone because the school wouldn't let him quit the course. So several students are doing the work and paying the tuition only to get a failing grade on their transcript because the professor wants to make a point. That's why it's getting justifiably overruled.

    1. Re:The correct decision by Copid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's really too bad he didn't hang in there until the end and give legitimate supportable F grades to most of the class while showing good faith by giving appropriate grades to decent students. Getting an F that sticks stings a lot more than making news while your professor melts down and having your grade adjusted by the university.

      I'd love to see a world where professors hand out failing grades more liberally. I got really sick of seeing cheaters and whiners get their way when I was in college.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    2. Re:The correct decision by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Informative

      Perhaps English isn't your first language.

      Horwitz said that "a few" students had not engaged in misbehavior, and he said that those students were also the best academic performers. Horwitz said he offered to the university that he would continue to teach just those students , but was told that wasn't possible.

      It was the university that made the "all or none" call.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  6. Re:You can't control the class, so you've failed. by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    All it takes for this strategy to fail is that the most disruptive students being in some way "special". And I'm not even meaning that they're retarded or belonging to some minority and failing them could get the PC crowd breathing down your neck. All it takes is that the parents of such an asshole student are "important" because they donate money into the school's coffers, basically buying their precious little dud a degree.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  7. Should use "Guerrilla Teaching" by Mahldcat · · Score: 5, Interesting

    He didn't approach this in the correct way--rather than announce what is going on, he should "adjust" his curriculum on the remaining tests, projects and labs. First make the students sign a (re)acknowledgement about the school's policy on cheating & plagiarism. Next adjust the projects/labs--make them "in class"---you can work with people (including seeking info from the instructor/teachers assistants), but no internet, only allowed to use the course material etc. (I had a teacher who did this--and was interesting approach as you actually learned more than straight lectures). This mitigates plagiarism. Next bring in half a dozen people for the exams to proctor it (if this is where the bulk of cheating was happening). If you are caught, then it's a dead to rights thing, and you are turned into the university. This mitigates cheating. Finally, from personal experience, in some cases if you get a "D" in a class, you have still technically "passed" but most of the time you have issues later on if you try to use it (most universities won't accept it if you transfer for instance). Change up the tests (and curve) enough that the class still passes, but with a VERY low mark--enough that the majority of the students have a "D"

    1. Re:Should use "Guerrilla Teaching" by dcollins · · Score: 4, Informative

      The guy's a temporary adjunct (as most college instructors are nowadays). He probably gets paid about $3000 for all the work all semester for this course. He may not even know 6 other people at the college, never mind have any way of getting them to work for him as proctors. Is all the extra work and re-design worth the $1K left in the semester? Just walking away seems at least arguably better for one's mental health.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
  8. Can't punish your customers by StikyPad · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Obviously the university can't afford to punish its customers. At least, not for very long.

    I'm also skeptical that 100% of students deserved to fail. Maybe they did, but that should be a consequence of individual evaluations that have a coincidental outcome, not a group evaluation that affects every individual. The older we get, the more we tend to use the shortcut of categorization instead of individualized evaluation. Categorization is efficient, and often "good enough," but honestly, students deserve the individual evaluation they paid for.

    I had a high school teacher burn out in much the same way. He was actually a great teacher -- excited about the material, animated, and he always encouraged debate. He had a large number of students in one of his classes that would taunt him for childish reasons like his mannerisms, and eventually he lost it and told the entire class that they had failed, and told everyone to report to the principal's office in an expletive-laden tirade. Teachers are people, and they have limits. The behavior of the students was inexcusable, and while the reaction of the teacher was understandable, it was unprofessional and thus unacceptable.

    The entire class did not fail, nor did it deserve to. It wasn't the job of the well-behaving students to moderate the behavior of the bad actors -- the other students were victims as well. I think the lesson is to really nip this sort of thing in the bud. If disruptive students had been removed after a couple of infractions, it would have both decreased the level of disruption and set an example to the rest of the class. Allowing things to get to the point described in the summary is the real failure.

  9. Re:How to be successful in business... by Cederic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Depends on your criteria for success.

    My friends tell me they're amazed and jealous of my career, and consider me a beacon of success in a corporate environment.

    I'm in a corporate environment so I know many people more successful than me, and work for some of them. They're going higher, faster, and earning more money. Some of them are arseholes, some are not.

    I'm always trying to be nice to people, make constructive relationships and not be an arsehole. Hopefully sometimes I get that right.

    But my personal achievements and those of the people I see in management positions above me do show that you can achieve success without being an arsehole.

    Maybe not Steve Jobs level of success, but frankly I don't want to be a Steve Jobs level of arsehole either. There's a happy compromise, and it's making me happy enough and successful enough and people don't accuse me of being an arsehole. Often.

  10. "How did the teacher fail these students?" by mariox19 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I can sympathize with number 1, and partially with number 4, but 2 and 3 hold no water at all. They should not be the concern of the professor. These undergraduates are supposedly a subset of adults.

    Your immediate reaction is to ask: "How did the teacher fail these students?" Sadly, your reaction is endemic; and, moreover, indicative of the problem at every level of U.S. education.

    --

    quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.

  11. Re:typical college class... by fermion · · Score: 2
    While TAM Galveston is above the level of a community college, it is not up to the level of the more legitimate universities in the State even though it shares a name with some. Also, it has a reason to exist apart from the greater system, namely a maritime emphasis. That said, the flagship universities do have a tendency to shift less desirable students to these outlying branches. Students want to go to these education not for the education, but so they can say they went. The universities encourage this by have 'former student associations' instead of 'alumni organizations'

    In any case I am sure these problems exist a the colleges that occupy the space between community colleges and legitimate universities, where such problems are much less dominate. That is why it still makes a difference where one goes to school, and why some schools can charge a premium.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  12. Cheating and harassment... by waterford0069 · · Score: 2

    I've always been under the impression that academic dishonesty (cheating) has been grounds for expulsion ... basically for any accredited university.

    As such eject them from the University, and good luck getting into any other 1st class schools with out a lot of work and growth (if ever).

    The rest would seem to fall under the University's harassment policy. Which I'm sure has it's own way of removing trouble makers from class

    What this says to me is that the Prof didn't activate the appropriate responses early in the term AND more so, the department head was asleep at the switch and didn't have a clue what was going on at the Prof's level (and provide guidance on how to address the issues with the class). And before you way it wasn't the department head's responsibility to do so, it is.

    As a leader, your responsibilities not only include the direction of tasks and responsibilities for your subordinates. It also includes looking after their well being (and their subordinates). It's not enough to just provide Bob with safety equipment and training, you need to make sure Bob is using it. Likewise, it's not enough just to provide a harassment policy and enforce it, if Bob is not recognising he is being harassed, it's important to pull them aside and help them activate that process.

  13. This isn't only happening in America. by MindPrison · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I used to be a part time teacher since I am an animation/computer specialist and the schools hire me for the things they can't teach.

    One of those things I've noticed is that the teachers doesn't have any say anymore, it's all about the money and how happy the kids parents are. The happier the parents, the more attendance they get. And if they get a lot of attendance, then the government will increase the schools income and support. This breeds a new kind of school, an unhealthy school system where teachers are constantly burned out, have to suck up to kids and their parents instead of concentrating on the real job at hand, teaching!

    Teaching AND learning demands a lot of focus, and focus demands discipline.
    Kids are NOT stupid, they will figure out that they can get away with whatever they want and will naturally do so - kids being kids, testing new grounds.

    We need to give more power back to the teachers, and educate parents to discipline their kids into wanting real achievements instead of "whatever they can get away with to party every night". Discipline never hurt anyone, it helps you to FOCUS.

    --
    What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
    1. Re:This isn't only happening in America. by dcollins · · Score: 2

      Sure, in theory you're right. Schools aren't run by teachers anymore, the power has taken away by PHB administrator management who want to run it like a business. (Just like hospitals aren't run by doctors, etc.) I have a hard time seeing the trend reversing course, however; that's the trajectory of our political economy.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
  14. P.S. by mariox19 · · Score: 5, Informative

    As found by another Slashdot user, the following article gives a much more complete picture.

    --

    quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.

    1. Re:P.S. by Ichijo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Asked if the decision to fail every one of the 30-plus enrollees was fair to every student, Horwitz said that "a few" students had not engaged in misbehavior, and he said that those students were also the best academic performers. Horwitz said he offered to the university that he would continue to teach just those students, but was told that wasn't possible, so he felt he had no choice but to fail everyone and leave the course.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    2. Re:P.S. by barbariccow · · Score: 2

      As found by another Slashdot user, the following article gives a much more complete picture.

      This article has a picture at the top of an (F) being drawn in chalk by a black felt-tip marker. Where2buy board which turns marker into chalk?

  15. Somebody else's problem by Dr+J.+keeps+the+nerd · · Score: 3, Informative

    He was a sessional lecturer in his first semester at Galveston. He had made multiple attempts to deal with the bad actors in the class, and the university hadn't supported him. In addition to his love letter to the students, he wrote one to the department telling them what he thought of them and saying: The students are "your problem now." While burning that particular bridge may have seemed worthwhile to him, I doubt he's happy to have made the news. He probably would have liked to remain hireable as an instructor.

  16. Fail the school. by emil · · Score: 2

    My professors conducted research in areas that were only slightly related (on a good day) to the material that they were assigned to teach. These people carefully preserved overhead transparencies from previous teachers that were cracked and faded. They obviously had little enthusiasm for their teaching duties, and my fellow students mirrored the excitement.

    Some became prima donnas that flew into a rage in the wrong circumstances. Some actively preened their students for (low-paid) graduate research (not entirely suppressing a greedy desire to exploit). And some simply took apathy to levels that I had never seen before.

    I went through a real circus with a professor going for tenure (who did have basic problems with competence) that had to endure not only the stifled laughter of fellow faculty in our class, but video tape recorders documenting his poor teaching style.

    School, at all levels, needs to put people who want to teach in front of people who want to learn, which is diametrically opposed to the structure of a research university. If you don't have both of these types of people in the right place at the right time, the results will be substandard, as indeed they have been for the past century.

    Fail the school.

  17. I was forced to pass students by niwrat · · Score: 3, Informative

    I was a lecturer at a university in Melbourne (AU) for over 3 years. I quit after being told I could not fail students whose work was way below par, as well as finding them directly plagiarizing (copypasting) work from the Internet. This was a design school, and the students they would not let me fail were all overseas students. The problem is that if these students get below a certain score they are "sent home" and the massive amounts of money they pay the university is gone. The thing that really horrifies me is that the universities are more tied to the money they get than what the degree they give stands for!

  18. Yep, usually "bad class" means "bad professor" by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2

    Bad students are certainly a thing but any time I've seen a professor talk about how bad a whole class is (and I've seen it, I do IT support at a university) is the PROFESSOR who is the bad one.

    We had a guy who only lasted one semester before being told to leave. He disrespected his students, did a shit job teaching anything, and expected everyone to have advanced processor design knowledge that was PhD level or beyond. He gave them an impossible project and then raged at them when they couldn't do it.

    While there may well have been a few lazy and/or disrespectful students in his class, the overwhelming problem was him. He expected everyone to kiss his ass all the time, not expect anything from him, and have education far beyond their years. With unrealistic expectations like that, of course he was disappointed in his class.

    Everyone "failed" his class by raw numbers but he just curved it so in the end grades were a representation of intelligence, not mastery of the subject.

  19. Need More Information by LinuxLuver · · Score: 2

    There are probably two sides to this story.... At least. We only have one of them. Ordinarily, the university management failing to back up a lecturer would be appalling.... Unless the lecturer was appalling. We can't know from the summary.

    --
    Only boring people are ever bored.