Slashdot Mirror
NSA Reform Bill Backed By Both Parties Set To Pass House of Representatives
HughPickens.com writes: The NY Times reports that after more than a decade of wrenching national debate over the intrusiveness of government intelligence agencies, a bipartisan wave of support has gathered to sharply limit the federal government's sweeps of phone and Internet records. A bill that would overhaul the Patriot Act and curtail the metadata surveillance exposed by Edward Snowden overwhelmingly passed the House Judiciary Committee by a vote of a 25-2, and is heading to almost certain passage in the House of Representatives. An identical bill in the Senate — introduced with the support of five Republicans — is gaining support over the objection of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who is facing the prospect of his first policy defeat since ascending this year to majority leader. "The bill ends bulk collection, it ends secret law," says Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, the original author of the Patriot Act who has now helped author the Freedom Act. "It increases the transparency of our intelligence community and it does all this without compromising national security."
The Patriot Act is up for its first reauthorization since the revelations about bulk data collection. The impending June 1 deadline for reauthorization, coupled with an increase of support among members of both parties, pressure from technology companies and a push from the White House, have combined to make changes to the provisions more likely. The Snowden disclosures, along with data breaches at Sony Pictures, Target and the insurance giant Anthem, have unsettled voters and empowered those in Congress arguing for greater civil liberties protection — who a few years ago "could have met in a couple of phone booths," says Senator Ron Wyden. The Freedom Act very nearly passed both chambers of Congress last year, but it failed to garner the 60 votes to break a filibuster in the Senate. It fell short by two votes.
However some say the bill doesn't go far enough. The bill leaves intact surveillance programs conducted by the Drug Enforcement Agency and levies high penalties against those offering "material support" to terrorists. It also renews the expiring parts of the Patriot Act through 2019. "This bill would make only incremental improvements, and at least one provision – the material-support provision – would represent a significant step backwards," says American Civil Liberties Union Deputy Legal Director Jameel Jaffer. "The disclosures of the last two years make clear that we need wholesale reform."
The Patriot Act is up for its first reauthorization since the revelations about bulk data collection. The impending June 1 deadline for reauthorization, coupled with an increase of support among members of both parties, pressure from technology companies and a push from the White House, have combined to make changes to the provisions more likely. The Snowden disclosures, along with data breaches at Sony Pictures, Target and the insurance giant Anthem, have unsettled voters and empowered those in Congress arguing for greater civil liberties protection — who a few years ago "could have met in a couple of phone booths," says Senator Ron Wyden. The Freedom Act very nearly passed both chambers of Congress last year, but it failed to garner the 60 votes to break a filibuster in the Senate. It fell short by two votes.
However some say the bill doesn't go far enough. The bill leaves intact surveillance programs conducted by the Drug Enforcement Agency and levies high penalties against those offering "material support" to terrorists. It also renews the expiring parts of the Patriot Act through 2019. "This bill would make only incremental improvements, and at least one provision – the material-support provision – would represent a significant step backwards," says American Civil Liberties Union Deputy Legal Director Jameel Jaffer. "The disclosures of the last two years make clear that we need wholesale reform."
Well, according to New York Times:
I'm not sure, we gained all that much here...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Turtle soup bitch...
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
when the democrats and republicans are voted out.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
If and when Snowden comes home, we think he should get a medal. Then we want him locked up.
.
Two steps forward on the expansion of government, one step back on the limitation of government. Repeat indefinitely, and that's how you end up with the most expensive, most powerful governnment AND world empire (with military bases in some 150 other countries) in human history.
But isn't it time to admit Snowden was right, is a Patriot, and should be fully pardoned?
>> also renews the expiring parts of the Patriot Act through 2019
This should be the headline: Bipartisan bill renews Patriot Act for four years, with minor tweaks
In fact, I think there's really no reform. From TFA:
"data would instead be stored by the phone companies themselves, and could be accessed by intelligence agencies only after approval of the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court"
Um...guess what happens as soon as this bill is passed? "Hey Obama, er, I mean secret court, can we please continue access all the data from those boxes we installed at the phone companies again? Of course? Well, thanks!"
It's the "Secret Law" part that has my attention.
"the material-support provision – would represent a significant step backwards"
He's right. Providing material support to terrorists should be legal.
I mean seriously, is he dumb or something?
It's not just metadata...
They are collecting all e-mails, all text messages, all content of calls.
This talk of metadata is a smoke screen.
When the close the Bluffdale Utah data center, and convert it to civillian government use, I will believe they are stoping the collection.
There are numerous NSA whistle blowers that tell the truth, they are collecting everything.
And all that has never stopped a terrorist attack.
Is they spent that many billions on good old spying, human intelligence, developing operatives, they might be able to actually stop attacks. But this is not their goal. It is all about surveillance of the general population for control, and ultimately used for spying on political opponents. It always devolves to that.
The man said that more than 15 years ago. What, we have -3 privacy now, so we need to get back to zero? That'll be a big help!
It all smacks of wishful thinking. It's not just the NSA and the governments of the US and their NATO allies either, there are lots of companies, foreign governments, and hackers legally or illegally tracking and analyzing every move we make, all of our transactions and correspondences.
Everyone is a tabloid celebrity now.
The only meaningful change will be phone companies adding an extra data storage fee to phone bills. They'll probably call themselves heroes for safeguarding private data from the government, who now will only be able to access the data on demand.
How many members of Congress can fit into two phone booths?
The bill leaves intact surveillance programs conducted by the Drug Enforcement Agency
the average age of a congress critter is 62. These politicians still believe things like communism and the war on drugs are legitimate aspects of foreign and domestic policy, not just ginned up talking points from the administrations they floated.
and levies high penalties against those offering "material support" to terrorists.
Queue the age range again. at 62 the greyhairs on the senate and house floors respond more to "isms" like communism, socialism, and terrorism than they do independent research from political and social scientists. To them, politics is established cannon and they discern that which is sacrosanct and true from that which is patently false over a medium rare tenderloin.
It also renews the expiring parts of the Patriot Act through 2019.
Blame George Bush, but really blame politicians for making a bill thats toxic to democracy but even more toxic to repeal. Im certain you could find more than half of the house or senate willing to repeal a bill called the "spy on all people forever and build a torture prison" act, but you wont find so much as a ball of pocket lint in the carpet willing to touch "patriot" act. We've built a genuine third-rail that isnt getting dismantled until it zaps the ever-loving fuck out of someone with more brass than sense.
Good people go to bed earlier.
This, or similar stopping these NSA programs, gets passed. Bulk phone and metadata collection in the US stops. Within a year or 2, another event happens. The scale of which will become irrelevant at this point. The cause, and prevention of which, would have mattered none, had these programs been in place.
Ex. Like say ... people that are real known threats, that are in the US that shouldn't be, but aren't actively searched for, found and, deported by the FBI/ICS/etc... Or, a notice from foreign Governments to watch specific people that they know are in the US. But we don't, because our the Federal and State LEO bodies are arrogant to the point of failure!
And the reaction to such a thing? The horrendous cry that implements a surveillance bill that makes the PATRIOT ACT look like childs play. The moment another event happens in the US, the vast majorities will call for an immediate reaction from Congress and the POTUS. And what they'll get will be do absolutely nothing but curtail the Constituion and the Bill of Rights to extreme ends. THAT's what I fear. And you should too!
Providing material support to terrorists should be illegal. That the concept can be abused by aggressive prosecutors is obviously a problem, but then any legal concept can be abused. I had a friend who is known as a kind and gentle soul, who was seen being attacked by a woman who rushed him and assaulted him and was prosecuted for assault and battery because he pushed her away from him. Pushed, not body slammed. So should we get rid of assault and battery or should we disbar the son of a bitch who brought charges which the facts on the ground collected at the time didn't support?
All it does is slide more unconstitutional/Illegal acts in under the radar. Nobody has any obligation to obey a secret law, or a secret court, and no court or law enforcer have any obligation to enforce it, nor the authority to.
And how is drug enforcement a national security issue? Why would that ever be in the "patriot act"
NSA, in its current form is very much like a cancer --- and for most normal cancer patients they do not want to have a treatment whereby their cancer can be 'reformed', they want the cancer to be removed, once and for all
NSA, in its current form, is of no use to the survival, nor for the safety of the United States of America
The existence of NSA was supposed to help the government of the United States of America to identify and when necesary eradicate all the dangers that are already inside America but NSA has failed miserably in that regard
NSA has failed to prevent and eradicate existed dangers that are already inside the United States of America - such as that moslem soldier who killed 13 other soldiers in Fort Hood, and the pair of moslem brothers who planted bombs at the Boston Marathon
The latest case which illustrate NSA's failure is that of the senior recruiter for the Islamic State terrorist organization. That female recruiter has (or had) been staying in Seattle while she was engaging in recruitment drive for the Islamic State terrorists !
If you are not familiar with the case, the following link might give you some pointers
https://seattleglobalist.com/2015/04/29/uk-report-links-isis-recruiter-to-seattle-woman/36555
Now, let us recall what NSA suppose to do --- to seek and locate (and to eradicate) hostile elements which pose danger to the United States of America --- and in this latest case, NSA too has failed to identify that moslem woman
The fact that it took a British media outlet, Channel 4, to uncover the identity of the senior recruiter for Islamic State, and let us be reminded that that British media outlet, Channel 4, never gets to enjoy all the fancy facilities which NSA gets to enjoy - the massive information gathering infrastructures, the armies of analysts, the experts who supposed to know what they are doing
No, that Channel 4 from Great Britain has none of that, but yet, they managed to uncover the identity of that senior recruiter for the Islamic State and also to pinpoint her location, Seattle, which you guys should know is INSIDE the United States of America !
So what NSA has been doing?
Is it doing what it supposed to do? Nope
Instead, NSA has been used to spy on and to harass its own citizens, most of whom are law abiding Christians, in obvious VIOLATION to the Constitution of the United States of America
In other words, no amount of 'reform' to the NSA will ever make any sense --- NSA as it is should be abolished, closed down, dismantled, period
But of course the United States does need some kinds of meta-spook agency to coordinate all its spook programs, defensive and/or offensive --- so, the best approach should be that instead of a 'reform' to NSA, NSA should be abolished, totally dismantled, and then, a BRAND NEW spook agency should be erected to carry out the job to protect the United States of America --- and this time, THAT NEW SPOOK AGENCY MUST DO EVERYTHING IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
My 2 cents
If someone is providing "material support" to terrorists then fuck them. Lets say Osama bin ladin is living in my house and I know it is him... and I and feeding him and giving him cover. That is an example of material support. If you're doing that... then allow me to say on behalf of the American people, that you can eat all the fucking dicks.
Exactly why is this a bad thing? I don't get it. Someone explain this to me?
Does material support not mean what I think it means? I don't understand.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
There is no 'our black president' or 'our white president' because there is only one President of the United States of America
You are the one who view the racial background of the POTUS much more important than what his position, his office, stands for
You are the one who can't see the whole forest for the trees
It is YOU who are fucked up
The US government has been breaking laws for years with no consequences. Why would this law be any different?
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
That's a guarantee it's crap, I tell you what.
...but I have a feeling that I will come away feeling that nothing covered in it actually means jack shit.
of pride is pretty much automatically going to be some of the worst shit imaginable (having not read either the article nor the bill).
against those offering "material support" to terrorists
That's the CIA and the US government as a whole well and truly fscked then.
"It also renews the expiring parts of the Patriot Act through 2019."
No. let that fucking thing die. The PATRIOT ACT and those that support it are enemies of the american people.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
the nsa had no right to do it then and making it more wrong wont stop them from doing it today and tomorrow.
I was wrong, no hope for humanity.
Since there doesn't seem to be any effective oversight of the NSA (or CIA) or any actual consequences when they break the law, why would anyone seriously expect the NSA would actually stop mass collection or even give a shit about this bill passing?
The expensive mass-surveilance mechanisms and technologies are already developed and in place. Unless all the secret data centres and backbone taps are identified and physically destroyed in front of independent monitors, There's not a hope in hell that the NSA and their buddies won't just keep using it no matter what some stupid bill says.
...I'll go get the Vaseline.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Look how the "Affordable Care Act" was re-branded by the Republicans to "ObamaCare" (thought that didn't quite work out). Perhaps we need to persistently and aggressively refer to these laws as the "Spy & Torture Act" instead of the "Patriot Act". Better yet....let's just call it the "Unpatriotic Spy & Torture Act"!
The Patriot Act reform and metadata situation being promoted now by the media is a smokescreen hiding the REAL backdoor...Executive Order 12333. Put in place by then President Ronald Regan in 1981.
A few highlights:
"E.O. 12333 is not a statute and has never been subject to meaningful oversight from Congress or any court." Unless you consider FISA a real court...
"On July 31, 2008, President Bush signed a document titled "Executive Order: Further Amendments to Executive Order 12333, United States Intelligence Activities"." You can imagine the turbo-charging THAT amendment did...
"The NSA claims that E.O. 12333 makes its mass-scale violations of the Fourth Amendment legal. Specifically, in section 2.3 paragraph C, the one sentence that the government believes allows them to bypass the Fourth Amendment says the intelligence community can "collect, retain, or disseminate information concerning United States persons" if that information is "obtained in the course of a lawful foreign intelligence, counterintelligence, international narcotics or international terrorism investigation." In other words, hoovering grabs any and all, so that byproduct of your nudie cutie post, web search for "pot greenhouses", or slamming your boss on Facebook, is simply innocent chaff...Hah!
The NSA is already ignoring the plain language of the fourth amendment, and they'll ignore this law too, if it passes. The only effective remedy is to disband the agency and prosecute every last person involved with their crimes.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
we are a constitutional republic not a democracy.. get it right!!!
The United States of America is no longer a constitutional republic because the Constitution itself has been disregarded a long LONG time ago
The fact that NSA continues to exist and operate in violation of the Constitution of the United States of America signifies the total powerlessness of the Constitution itself
A law can only be lawful if TPTB says it is
A law can continually to be effective if TPTB uses that particular law to enforce its rule over the domain (and the people)
TPTB that has been ruling over the United States of America for the past 150 years or so never take the Constitution of the United States seriously. For them the Constitution is but a tool that they can use to rule over the people, to restrict people's rights, to further stripping off the people's liberty
The same thing happened to the Bill of Rights
As far as TPTB is concerned, the people have no rights
The so-called 'Constitutional Republic' is but a play of words, a slogan has been used in their advertising campaign, in their, as you put it, psyops, over the people
The Canadian government has Bill C-51 which they are proposing, and looks a lot like the Patriot Act. Millions of people have protested because it gives massively expanded powers to intelligence agencies (more than half of what the CSE collects goes straight south to the NSA, more data than the CSE can even process). Secret budgets, the ability to detain without charge (going against the Canadian Constitution and ripe for a block by the Supreme Court), yet the government continues. The intelligence agencies aren't even using the budgets they have now, and yet the bill promises millions more. And the US government (and this is the surprising part), is showing sanity in having checks to unlimited power. Bizarre!