Slashdot Mirror
Statues of Assange, Snowden and Manning Go Up In Berlin
HughPickens.com writes: RT Times reports that Alexanderplatz square in Berlin has become the stage for a provocative art piece which celebrates whistleblowers and encourages ordinary citizens to speak out. "They have lost their freedom for the truth, so they remind us how important it is to know the truth," says sculptor Davide Dormino. The life-sized statues of the three whistleblowers stand upon three chairs, as if speaking in an impromptu public meeting. Next to them is a fourth, empty chair. "The fourth chair is open to anyone here in Berlin who wants to get up and say anything they want," says the artist. Dormino, who came up with the idea together with the US journalist Charles Glass, specifically chose a classical bronze statue for his depiction – and not an installation or abstract piece – since statues are usually made of establishment figures. According to Domino while men who order others to their deaths get immortalized, those who resist are often forgotten, so "the statue pays homage to three who said no to war, to the lies that lead to war and to the intrusion into private life that helps to perpetuate war." Activists and members of Germany's Green party unveiled the life-size bronze statues on May Day.
So you don't believe the statues exist?
No matter what you agree with what Manning and/or Snowden and/or Assange have done, no one can deny that they are ordinary folks, just like you and me
What makes them special is the system
What I mean is, if the supposingly ' Democratic System ' that we have is truly democratic, that the system would never do despicable things it accuses THE OTHER SIDE (them 'Commies') of doing, such as Trampling on human rights, violating the Constitution, spying on its own citizens, and so on, neither Manning, Assange nor Snowden would have any reason to do what they have done
It is The System which makes them what they are --- Because The System has become so goddamn rotten that the three ordinary folks had no choice but to tell the truth
I have tried to imagine what I would do, given the same circumstance ... and the only honest thing I can say is, I simply do not have the guts to do what they did ... yes, I have yet to grow my own pair
Dammit, once again the Europeans give Obama undeserved recognition!
Even if it's the RT which came out with that article no one can deny the goddamn ROT of the Western governments
If the Western, supposedly DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENTS weren't doing so much rotting stuffs, you think Manning or Snowden or Assange would have anything to show us?
You are nothing but a pathetic troll!
Manning's name isn't "Bradley Chelsea Manning", it's Chelsea Manning. And depicting her as a male is just lack of respect. She doesn't need that kind of support, and much less from Putin TV.
"Activists and members of Germany's Green party unveiled the life-size bronze statues on May Day."
...depicting Manning as a male while s(he) asked to be considered as a female, standing next to the fugitive suspect for the rape of a female mister Assange, between a transexual and mister Snowden who is protected by a goverment declaring that homosexuals are not welcomed...
Even i, a right-wing Greek, couldn't plan it better! Don't you just love our left-wing Europeans?
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
Is a heroic sacrifice to open an escape route from a burning building any less heroic because the people inside decided they'd rather roast marshmallows than flee?
Even if we here in the US refuse to organize to bring our government to heel, at least the truth of the rot has been exposed to the rest of the world, so there's some hope that nations whose population have not abandoned democratic responsibility can fight its spread into their own governments.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
US: Gawd damned Nazi's idolizing traitors!
Germany: Nazi's? Pot/Kettle?
I am sad to say that a look inside the US reveals that it has become some of the key elements in the monster it so vigilantly took down in WWII.
War Resisters Remain in Canada with No Regrets
Many opponents of the Vietnam war fled to Canada rather than face conscription, "An estimated 125,000 Americans fled to Canada in the 1960s and '70s to avoid the Vietnam War military draft, according to the American Veterans of Foreign Wars" according to the article
The town of Nelson planned to build a memorial to these folks, who once they settled into Canada became exemplary citizens and active participants in their communities.
The flood of hate mail from the USA caused them to reconsider.
If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
Slashdot's feeding the Russian propaganda sites now?
Why not, most newspapers here in the US feed US propaganda. They don't report the true news or else they omit what is really going on. Just look at the NY Times in the leadup to the Iraq war, they help Cheny/Bush go to war for non-existent weapons of mass destruction. Look at the mess we're in now. We're recruiting terrorists like mad now. We're really hated by lots of folks. Just because of our wanting to take Iraq oil.
These are monuments representing those who would SPEAK THE TRUTH. It doesn't matter what your opinions are regarding these truths. These men all did great services for people of the world. Their actions go well beyond US borders.
All they have done is tell the truth, the truth does hurt when the government has done pretty much everything else but play it straight since the 50's. They still fail to realize the course that put this country on, and that only serves to prove the people are not being represented. Some blame US business for buying out the politicians, it however was the politicians that sold us out, sold out our jobs and eventually lead to selling themselves out with the government having to print money every six months to keep the governments doors open. Somehow I think they believe the corporations will bail them out on the bottom line but why would they bother when they have already moved the jobs they provided over seas while also importing H1B visa candidates at half price, and cheated unemployment statistical data. Selling "futures" becomes pretty expensive when counted against the bottom line.
At a first glance maybe not, US media is controlled by big corporations, the oligarchy controlling them, and their interests, serving only their propaganda. But then again it is corporations and their interests that run the government as well. So... yes?
Snowden, et al. have revealed more about our society and its individuals than our government.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Slashdot's feeding the Russian propaganda sites now?
The source is questionable in many ways, and well known to be a Russian government mouthpiece.
But the same material was available elsewhere in German and international media with all the same opinion slants.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
in front of the U.S embassy.
Statues erected to promote freedom of speech and tell people they should not be afraid to say when there is something going wrong are considered "provocative".
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
FTFY. If it had anything at all to do with rape, the Swedish government would have taken Assange up on his offer to return to the country if they promised not to hand him over to the U.S. they way they did to Mohammed al-Zari. They never have.
Are you a recent national socialist, or does it run in your family?
Dude, think again. Kissinger has one. Obama has one. The EU has one. Giving one to Assange, Manning and Snowden sends the wrong signal, they're not crooks.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I'm not worried at all if Assange/Manning "hurt" governments. But I'm *outraged* that they put the lives of people resisting repressive and violent regimes at risk by publishing their names and actions. If all they had done was whistle blowing against governments I would laud them, as I do Snowden.
If it had anything at all to do with rape, the Swedish government would have taken Assange up on his offer to return to the country if they promised
Assange had no legal right to bargain with the Swedish authorities; the Swedish legal system precludes the prosecutors from striking the kind of deals Assange proposed. Assange obviously knew that - his whole act was for dramatic effect, not for any tangible benefit.
Long story short, Assange duped you.
Catalin Braescu
Ofaly.com
Germany should be more concerned about its own domestic spying programs, the massive data collection by the German government, and the widespread restrictions on free speech and free exercise of religion in Germany.
While you might say that perhaps putting up statues to US whistleblowers might encourage Germans to do the same thing, in reality, this is just an outgrowth from a widespread political effort in German (and similarly other European countries) to distract people from domestic problems by pretending that it's all the Americans' fault.
Which begs the question - what right does the US have to shoot innocent civilians, in their own country, who happen to be enjoying them same freedom - to keep and bear arms - that the constitution holds sacrosanct.
- In Soviet Korea, only old people loose all their bases to Natalie Portman's petrified hot grits overlords.
The moment the American people take up arms against their own government is the day that the American mainstream media (and the rest of the world) call them crazy extremists who would be much better off with less freedom and smart people in charge of their lives. Oh wait, they already do that.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Sure, tell the truth:
The truth about innocent names and people trusting that they would have their confidentiality kept in dangerous parts of the world. Whose families got killed after the native governments found out who they are.
The truth about how ISIS was being monitored, which allowed then to now conduct operations without worry... had that "truth" not be out, the guys at Charlie Hebdo would still be alive.
The truth about US counter-espionage, which now gives hostile powers like China a greater hand.
I don't get why these guys are given any treatment other than contempt. They have helped greatly to empower repressive, brutal regimes, while damaging open governments. As for a higher standard? The offering of asylum and money is not exactly a higher cause. That is just plain treason.
I hope the Triad of Treason faces justice and responsibility for the people they killed. They did no honorable or valorous acts, except sell their government out.
What about Dave Patreus, why aren't you calling for his head? He leaked classified docs but rather than face prison he got a slap on the wrist, and the prosecutors didn't even want to do that.
It's "resistors".
And they were already outed. You can easily tell what and how strong they are by their colored bands.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Dear Germany: you get no points for putting up statues to controversial dissidents from other peoples' countries. You're clearly trying to make a bold political statement here, but to do that you need to take a stand against members of your own nation. Put up a statue to the folks who prosecuted the Christian Democratic Union's campaign donations scandal in 1999, or Kathrin Oertel, the leader of an anti-islamic nationalist group who recently resigned and recanted, and *then* you can pat yourselves on the back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
And! And: it says Snowden is "trapped" in Moscow, which is not very agitprop-friendly. Workable, but not exactly jingoism.
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
Sure, tell the truth:
The truth about innocent names and people trusting that they would have their confidentiality kept in dangerous parts of the world. Whose families got killed after the native governments found out who they are.
The truth about how ISIS was being monitored, which allowed then to now conduct operations without worry... had that "truth" not be out, the guys at Charlie Hebdo would still be alive.
The truth about US counter-espionage, which now gives hostile powers like China a greater hand.
I don't get why these guys are given any treatment other than contempt. They have helped greatly to empower repressive, brutal regimes, while damaging open governments. As for a higher standard? The offering of asylum and money is not exactly a higher cause. That is just plain treason.
I hope the Triad of Treason faces justice and responsibility for the people they killed. They did no honorable or valorous acts, except sell their government out.
The problem with all this is that the NSA is a military power that was proven to have turned military force against it's own people with the information that has been released and the people that are not being represented but mostly steered, in fact they are being ignored in the decision making process to effect the unconstitutional processes in government.
Want to talk about people being killed? Okay, then lets talk about my grandfather who was on JFK's short list of folks that knew what was going on in the actual JFK space program that we never got being ripped off and killed by the mob to steal money he wired for some image sensors and that resulted in the CIA SR program being cancelled by my great uncle Jack in 1964. It was not even the Russky's, it was our own local home grown wise guys. Charity begins at home fuckwhit, and if we can't keep our own shit straight then we should have no business judging anyone else. Then again the wise guys have had a wonderful example provided by the government since the 50's of doing anything but playing it straight. You think things are dangerous for an arm chair intelligence officer that doesn't even have to do the actual foot work? Try building a spy plane without black budgets in the cold war era to maintain absolute secrecy in your own fucking country without the criminals smelling the money.
And! And: it says Snowden is "trapped" in Moscow, which is not very agitprop-friendly.
Snowden *is* trapped in Russia unless he wants to cell-mate with Bradley Manning.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Right, which is why I added the second sentence. My point is that it could've been phrased in a manner that avoids implying Moscow is a trap, e.g. "unable to return home." I'm sure there are schools of propaganda training that are more subtle and don't pooh-pooh that sort of structuring, but at the very least it implies some restraint on the parts of the authors away from being a proverbial anti-US slant.
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
Do you have a reference for : "Assange himself later even admitted that they essentially lied about it
For those who don't know, it was the first piece released to wikileaks, and it was attempting to paint a narrative that US soldiers just casually and routinely openly fire on unarmed civilians.
Wrong and misleading
Wikileaks was in operation for years before this.
The full video was released alongside the edited one so people could judge that for themselves.
How many people actually died as a direct result of these disclosures? Numbers? Names?
If you shoot into a crowd, it isn't okay just because you failed to actually hit anyone.
How many people died as a result of liberating oil wells or looking for WMDs? Hmm...
That is irrelevant. You cannot justify doing something that is wrong or stupid, just by pointing out that someone else did something even dumber.
I personally believe that Snowden, and Manning both disclosed illegal activities that should have disclosed, and both are more hero than not. But I also believe that both could and should have used more discretion in releasing information that was harmful. Maybe someday, in a more enlightened future, they will both get a more permanent statue in their homeland.
You will be modded into oblivion for pointing out the inconvenient truth here on slashdot.
Snowden demonstrated his naivety when he willingly went on the Putin propaganda hour and asked softball questions. Remember that?
Do you really think there is no difference in terms of freedom of the press in Russia and the US?
FTA: Alexanderplatz square
'Platz' means square. It's just Alexanderplatz.
So, Germans defend the right of people to tell the world when things go wrong in other countries.
And yeah, building statues is clearly the right thing to do, especially after Snowden clearly said that he didn't want the world to focus on his person but rather on what he revealed. How about actually helping these people instead? They aren't dead yet you know.
For me it is an empty political move.
You win over white-black-black-brown Internets.
CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
"A guy who went straight to the Russians"? you mean, a guy whose passport was revoked by the Americans while in Russia. You just responded to someone's claim of paid shills by raising your hand--God, you guys are so bad at this!
Nobody was shooting.
Nobody was harmed or outed, even the DoD admits it. You're just lapping up foxpropaganda.
Then throwing it up on our shoes.
"That is irrelevant. "
That's not how you spell pertinent. It's a very relevant question. The answer to how many people were harmed by the disclosures of WL is zero. The number died liberating oil wells or not finding WMDs you sold them a decade or more before cost thousands of lives.
Given your whining about possible deaths, your refusal to admit any point is why their query was VERY pertinent.
Russia Today is quite literally government controlled and run propaganda. Can you honestly make that claim about the US media?
Yes, the US media are propaganda mouthpieces of their own recognizance.
At least the Russian propaganda is honest about being propaganda.
Every Eastern European I've met has told me this, "the difference between American propaganda and Russian propaganda is that we [Russians] didn't beleive our propaganda".
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
At the very least there are a large number of different media sites and the US government is not legislating to massively curtail and control the media. Russia, however, is.
Except the polls in Russia show the Russian people swallowing the crap Russia Today spews forth. A majority of Russians now have a positive view on Stalin, possibly because all negative aspects of his reign are being denied and suppressed by Putin and his bum chums.
I imagine when you've already pissed off the biggest army in the world you might start to watch your step a bit.
If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.