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Statues of Assange, Snowden and Manning Go Up In Berlin

HughPickens.com writes: RT Times reports that Alexanderplatz square in Berlin has become the stage for a provocative art piece which celebrates whistleblowers and encourages ordinary citizens to speak out. "They have lost their freedom for the truth, so they remind us how important it is to know the truth," says sculptor Davide Dormino. The life-sized statues of the three whistleblowers stand upon three chairs, as if speaking in an impromptu public meeting. Next to them is a fourth, empty chair. "The fourth chair is open to anyone here in Berlin who wants to get up and say anything they want," says the artist. Dormino, who came up with the idea together with the US journalist Charles Glass, specifically chose a classical bronze statue for his depiction – and not an installation or abstract piece – since statues are usually made of establishment figures. According to Domino while men who order others to their deaths get immortalized, those who resist are often forgotten, so "the statue pays homage to three who said no to war, to the lies that lead to war and to the intrusion into private life that helps to perpetuate war." Activists and members of Germany's Green party unveiled the life-size bronze statues on May Day.

27 of 161 comments (clear)

  1. Ordinary folks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No matter what you agree with what Manning and/or Snowden and/or Assange have done, no one can deny that they are ordinary folks, just like you and me

    What makes them special is the system

    What I mean is, if the supposingly ' Democratic System ' that we have is truly democratic, that the system would never do despicable things it accuses THE OTHER SIDE (them 'Commies') of doing, such as Trampling on human rights, violating the Constitution, spying on its own citizens, and so on, neither Manning, Assange nor Snowden would have any reason to do what they have done

    It is The System which makes them what they are --- Because The System has become so goddamn rotten that the three ordinary folks had no choice but to tell the truth

    I have tried to imagine what I would do, given the same circumstance ... and the only honest thing I can say is, I simply do not have the guts to do what they did ... yes, I have yet to grow my own pair

    1. Re:Ordinary folks by Immerman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have to disagree. Not with them being ordinary folks - that's true enough, and a good reminder that ALL of us have the potential to be heroes, if we only have the courage to do what's right, rather than what's convenient.

      But that a democratic system would never do despicable things that it accuses the other side of? Many a mob would disagree, and a mob is probably the most democratic system that has ever existed. In fact even a very many individuals are prone to accusing others of their own failings - why would you assume we would become more virtuous en mass?

      The problem is not "The System", though it has admittedly become twisted enough by institutionalized corruption that it would be difficult to fix. The problem is not even that pretty much since its inception it has been populated by the sort of people who want power - such is true of most any system that grants it.

      The problem is that we, the populace, trusted "the system" to protect us from the inevitable corruption of the very people who run it. We abdicated our democratic responsibility to keep our government to heel. We embraced party politics, despite be warned of their dangers by the very people who created "the system". We vote for the people who run the flashiest ads appealing to our hopes, fears, and biases, rather than spending the time and energy to actually investigate the candidate's track records and put our support behind the ones who actually best represent our interests. There is no system that can protect us from the abuse of power so long as we continue to freely hand that power to those who wish to abuse it, and reward that abuse with reelection rather than retribution.

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      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  2. An empty chair? by russotto · · Score: 4, Funny

    Dammit, once again the Europeans give Obama undeserved recognition!

  3. Re:Statues, really? by Immerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is a heroic sacrifice to open an escape route from a burning building any less heroic because the people inside decided they'd rather roast marshmallows than flee?

    Even if we here in the US refuse to organize to bring our government to heel, at least the truth of the rot has been exposed to the rest of the world, so there's some hope that nations whose population have not abandoned democratic responsibility can fight its spread into their own governments.

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    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  4. Re:First post!!!! by MobSwatter · · Score: 3, Informative

    US: Gawd damned Nazi's idolizing traitors!
    Germany: Nazi's? Pot/Kettle?

    I am sad to say that a look inside the US reveals that it has become some of the key elements in the monster it so vigilantly took down in WWII.

  5. Canadian Memorial to Vietnam opponents by TarPitt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    War Resisters Remain in Canada with No Regrets

    Many opponents of the Vietnam war fled to Canada rather than face conscription, "An estimated 125,000 Americans fled to Canada in the 1960s and '70s to avoid the Vietnam War military draft, according to the American Veterans of Foreign Wars" according to the article

    The town of Nelson planned to build a memorial to these folks, who once they settled into Canada became exemplary citizens and active participants in their communities.

    The flood of hate mail from the USA caused them to reconsider.

    --
    If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
    1. Re:Canadian Memorial to Vietnam opponents by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, I don't know about you, but to me not wanting to go to war to die senselessly to protect the interest of a few and participate in the dick-measuring contest between US and USSR sounds like a really sane reason to get out of it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Canadian Memorial to Vietnam opponents by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      If you want to wage war, do it. Go grab a gun and go to war. But do it yourself. If the assholes who want a war would have to fight it, they'd not only be far shorter, there would also be far fewer of them.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Canadian Memorial to Vietnam opponents by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2

      You can tell me all you want that the US intervention in Vietnam was disastrous and should have been avoided. You can say what you will about its execution, and your public policy interpretation. Have fun. And maybe all the draft-dodgers gone up to Canada believed this verbatim. Sure.

      But while you're considering US motives, please pause a moment to pay some respect for the million or so (South) Vietnamese who were killed in the war proper (the majority civilian), and for the millions who died afterwards in re-education camps, doing hard labor, escaping the country on ramshackle boats, executed for being enemies of the state, or simply starved through disastrous implementation of collectivized agriculture policies.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    4. Re:Canadian Memorial to Vietnam opponents by TarPitt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      These victims have already been paid their respects. The country that tried to send them to the stone age, that poisoned their landscape and murdered their children has not acknowledged its complicity.

      The United States never learned from the Vietnam War. The folks who refused to fight for this lie and emigrated, who built themselves a new life as solid citizens of another country, are not granted the respect they deserve. This simple memorial to their participation in their new homeland became a target for the US right wing hate machine, the same media machine that continues to send us into wars.

      The draft dodgers were right. if we had listened, we would not be involved now in the destruction of the Middle East.

      People do not leave their homeland to become lifetime emigres for frivolous reasons. The former Americans who moved to Canada and contributed to their adopted homeland deserve credit for what they accomplished.

      --
      If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
    5. Re:Canadian Memorial to Vietnam opponents by TarPitt · · Score: 2

      No, resistance to the Middle Eastern invasion, the growth of the national security state and ubiquitous surveillance stems directly from that same national security state that gave us the Vietnam War. NSA surveillance is made necessary by the national security state.

      Providing historical context for the current problem is not "changing the subject", it explains the current resistance.

      What Daniel Ellsberg did for the Vietnam War is echoed in what Assange and the others have done.

      --
      If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
    6. Re:Canadian Memorial to Vietnam opponents by foreverdisillusioned · · Score: 2

      Yes, bad laws should be broken by those who disagree with them. No, I don't think this is likely to tear the nation apart with raping and murdering and pillaging. I think that listening to (to borrow some D&D terminology here) lawful-evil and lawful-neutral blowhards like yourself are much more likely to result in needless suffering and (in the long run, after the anti-fascist backlash) chaos and anarchy.

      If you are incapable of forming and maintaining your own moral compass independent of the law, you are not an asset to "stable civil society".

  6. Re:Seriously?! by humptheElephant · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Slashdot's feeding the Russian propaganda sites now?

    Why not, most newspapers here in the US feed US propaganda. They don't report the true news or else they omit what is really going on. Just look at the NY Times in the leadup to the Iraq war, they help Cheny/Bush go to war for non-existent weapons of mass destruction. Look at the mess we're in now. We're recruiting terrorists like mad now. We're really hated by lots of folks. Just because of our wanting to take Iraq oil.

  7. Re:Transphobic assholes by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

    What this says is that the originators of the idea (sculptor Davide Dormino and journalist Charles Glass) are more interested in the agenda (and self-promotion) than in the people behind the story. You don't honor someone by actively disrespecting who they are, insulting them and putting the lie to the greater truth. Hopefully, since the stated purpose is to encourage ordinary citizens to speak out, hopefully others will also call out these two (and everyone who backs this misrepresentation of Ms. Manning).

    And before anyone starts with the "we don't have the data to make a representation of her as a woman" argument, if you can't do it right, then maybe you shouldn't be doing it at all. Ditto for the "artistic integrity" argument - artistic integrity my arse!

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  8. Re:First post!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    These are monuments representing those who would SPEAK THE TRUTH. It doesn't matter what your opinions are regarding these truths. These men all did great services for people of the world. Their actions go well beyond US borders.

  9. Re:First post!!!! by MobSwatter · · Score: 2

    All they have done is tell the truth, the truth does hurt when the government has done pretty much everything else but play it straight since the 50's. They still fail to realize the course that put this country on, and that only serves to prove the people are not being represented. Some blame US business for buying out the politicians, it however was the politicians that sold us out, sold out our jobs and eventually lead to selling themselves out with the government having to print money every six months to keep the governments doors open. Somehow I think they believe the corporations will bail them out on the bottom line but why would they bother when they have already moved the jobs they provided over seas while also importing H1B visa candidates at half price, and cheated unemployment statistical data. Selling "futures" becomes pretty expensive when counted against the bottom line.

  10. Re:i see dead people by Livius · · Score: 2

    You have so completely missed the point of why these people are heroes.

  11. This is our time... by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Statues erected to promote freedom of speech and tell people they should not be afraid to say when there is something going wrong are considered "provocative".

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. Cute asshattery is still asshattery by Uberbah · · Score: 2

    depicting Manning as a male

    ....as Manning was when the cables were handed over to Wikileaks.

    standing next to the political fugitive mister Assange

    FTFY. If it had anything at all to do with rape, the Swedish government would have taken Assange up on his offer to return to the country if they promised not to hand him over to the U.S. they way they did to Mohammed al-Zari. They never have.

    Even i, a right-wing Greek, couldn't plan it better!

    Are you a recent national socialist, or does it run in your family?

  13. Re:Statues, really? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

    The moment the American people take up arms against their own government is the day that the American mainstream media (and the rest of the world) call them crazy extremists who would be much better off with less freedom and smart people in charge of their lives. Oh wait, they already do that.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  14. Re:First post!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sure, tell the truth:

    The truth about innocent names and people trusting that they would have their confidentiality kept in dangerous parts of the world. Whose families got killed after the native governments found out who they are.

    The truth about how ISIS was being monitored, which allowed then to now conduct operations without worry... had that "truth" not be out, the guys at Charlie Hebdo would still be alive.

    The truth about US counter-espionage, which now gives hostile powers like China a greater hand.

    I don't get why these guys are given any treatment other than contempt. They have helped greatly to empower repressive, brutal regimes, while damaging open governments. As for a higher standard? The offering of asylum and money is not exactly a higher cause. That is just plain treason.

    I hope the Triad of Treason faces justice and responsibility for the people they killed. They did no honorable or valorous acts, except sell their government out.

    What about Dave Patreus, why aren't you calling for his head? He leaked classified docs but rather than face prison he got a slap on the wrist, and the prosecutors didn't even want to do that.

  15. Shills all over this thread. by Rujiel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "A guy who went straight to the Russians"? you mean, a guy whose passport was revoked by the Americans while in Russia. You just responded to someone's claim of paid shills by raising your hand--God, you guys are so bad at this!

  16. Re:Tautology by GrahamCox · · Score: 2

    Yes it is.

    Tautology (grammar)

  17. Re:Blow the whistle in other countries by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

    I guess you don't keep up with current events, but actually the people in Germany doing this have also been trying to get asylum for Snowden. It's not like they woke up one day and decided the best thing they could do is a statue, it's part of an ongoing effort to bring attention to the cause and put pressure on the government.

    Note to submitters: People don't RTFA, so you can't expect them to be knowledgeable about our Google the subject either. It's worth including useful info like this in the (short) summary because otherwise half the comments will be like this.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  18. Re:Seriously?! by mjwx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Russia Today is quite literally government controlled and run propaganda. Can you honestly make that claim about the US media?

    Yes, the US media are propaganda mouthpieces of their own recognizance.

    At least the Russian propaganda is honest about being propaganda.

    Every Eastern European I've met has told me this, "the difference between American propaganda and Russian propaganda is that we [Russians] didn't beleive our propaganda".

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  19. Re:Transphobic assholes by Carewolf · · Score: 2

    Once Bruce Jenner is done transitioning, do you think it would not be considered both insulting and exploitative to make a statue of how he used to look?

    If the statue was for something he did before the change, it would be odd if it didn't.

    You don't go around aging statues either just because the people they portrait has aged and changed.

  20. Re:Blow the whistle in other countries by CarbonShell · · Score: 2

    And while we try to get him asylum, we also say that it would be the worst idea because we, with out current government, would not be able to guarantee safety.

    I would also dare most to compare the media coverage between how Germans and the US treat the revelations on spying or the subject of whistle blowers or asylum for Snowden.

    If only Snowden had outed a CIA operative ... he could be VP now.