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Two Programmers Expose Dysfunction and Abuse In the Seattle Police Department

Posted by Soulskill on from the now-keep-your-heads-down dept.

reifman writes: Programmers Eric Rachner and Phil Mocek are now the closest thing Seattle has to a civilian police-oversight board. Through shrewd use of Washington's Public Records Act, the two have acquired hundreds of reports, videos, and 911 calls related to the Seattle Police Department's internal investigations of officer misconduct. Among some of Rachner and Mocek's findings: a total of 1,028 SPD employees (including civilian employees) were investigated between 2010 and 2013. (The current number of total SPD staff is 1,820.) Of the 11 most-investigated employees—one was investigated 18 times during the three-year period—every single one of them is still on the force, according to SPD.

In 569 allegations of excessive or inappropriate use of force (arising from 363 incidents), only seven were sustained—meaning 99 percent of cases were dismissed. Exoneration rates were only slightly smaller when looking at all the cases — of the total 2,232 allegations, 284 were sustained. This is partly why the Seattle PD is under a federal consent decree for retraining and oversight. You can check out some of the typically excellent Twitter coverage by Mocek from his #MayDaySea coverage.

52 of 249 comments (clear)

  1. But they're PHP programmers!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How can we trust them since /. hates PHP so much?

  2. I'm shocked ... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You mean when the police investigate their own misconduct they find there was none?

    I'm shocked I tell 'ya.

    And the police wonder why they're no longer treated with respect, while being people who regularly abuse their power and ignore the law. All cops need to start wearing body cameras at all times. Because it has reached the point where taking them at their word is a stupid idea.

    If the police choose to ignore the law, they should be charged like the rest of us.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:I'm shocked ... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On the other hand, we find that various mooks make spurious brutality claims, the vast majority of which are complete bullshit.

      The only evidence uncovered is that the PD has a robust system for reporting and investigating claims. That a small percentage find any real misdeeds could be an indication the the bar for accepting complaints is too low, as much as it could mean they don't follow through or dismiss real misdeeds. I am not saying it is one or the other, but the information presented is not enough to go on.

    2. Re:I'm shocked ... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That is, until the video surfaces.

      There have been enough high profile instances of police officers outright lying about what happened that I simply am not willing to assume they're telling the truth. Because often when a video shows up the police are proven to be lying.

      If the good cops can't weed out the bad ones, then it's time to treat them all like children who can't be trusted.

      In the fall of 2012, Ben Livingston (a past Stranger contributor) was the subject of a Washington State Patrol traffic stop. Livingston requested dash-cam video of the traffic stop, but the Washington State Patrol denied possessing such footage. The following year, Livingston, Rachner, Mocek, and Seattle civil rights attorney Cleveland Stockmeyer created a nonprofit called the Center for Open Policing (COP). Their first effort was to sue.

      They won, and the state patrol settled to the tune of about $23,000. "I particularly enjoyed that case," said Mocek.

      If you or I did that, it would be perjury and obstruction of justice.

      This is a police force which was already under a federal consent decree ... which means they've been acting like this for a long time.

      Boo hoo ... the poor police feel all ganged up on because they can't break the law and get away with it.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:I'm shocked ... by David_Hart · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That is, until the video surfaces.

      There have been enough high profile instances of police officers outright lying about what happened that I simply am not willing to assume they're telling the truth. Because often when a video shows up the police are proven to be lying.

      If the good cops can't weed out the bad ones, then it's time to treat them all like children who can't be trusted.

      In the fall of 2012, Ben Livingston (a past Stranger contributor) was the subject of a Washington State Patrol traffic stop. Livingston requested dash-cam video of the traffic stop, but the Washington State Patrol denied possessing such footage. The following year, Livingston, Rachner, Mocek, and Seattle civil rights attorney Cleveland Stockmeyer created a nonprofit called the Center for Open Policing (COP). Their first effort was to sue.

      They won, and the state patrol settled to the tune of about $23,000. "I particularly enjoyed that case," said Mocek.

      If you or I did that, it would be perjury and obstruction of justice.

      This is a police force which was already under a federal consent decree ... which means they've been acting like this for a long time.

      Boo hoo ... the poor police feel all ganged up on because they can't break the law and get away with it.

      You mean like the video in the Ferguson Michael Brown shooting case: "Ferguson Police Officer Exonerated in the Shooting of Michael Brown"

      I agree that there are bad cops who lie in order to cover up their incompetence, poor police work, etc. But there are also cases where video would show that the officer followed procedure. In my opinion, Police officers should be begging for tamper resistant body cams. It helps the honest cops and would help weed out the bad ones.

    4. Re:I'm shocked ... by Hussman32 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One item the media seems to dismiss is that there are almost 40 million police interactions every year. About 1.4% claim there was force used, and the majority state it was excessive. The number that has made the recent news is a dozen or so.

      I will be the first to say that 1.4% is far too much, but you can also note that 98.6% follow procedure, and all beat cops have a non-zero probability of being shot when they go to work that morning. Their job is hard (and quoting stats comparing cops to fisherman is pointless, fish don't have shotguns in the back seat).

      I have a friend whose husband was killed in the line of duty, he was stopping a warehouse robbery. It didn't make national news, and her kids grew up without their father. Yes, there are issues with the thin blue line and the recent monitoring with cell phones is a benefit, but before anyone goes around blasting cops without considering the whole picture, just imagine what it would be like if they did not protect us and serve us from the anarchy that would be there without them.

      --
      "Who are you?" "No one of consequence." "I must know." "Get used to disappointment."
    5. Re:I'm shocked ... by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Body cameras will help a little, but they won't solve the problem.

      Expect body cameras worn by corrupt cops to have serious reliability issues.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    6. Re:I'm shocked ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I wonder if it's reached a point where abuse of power is regular, or if it always has been and it's only the fact that nearly everyone carries a camera.

      Read about Frank Serpico, an NYPD cop that blew the whistle on endemic corruption and graft in the 1970s. His partner, with the assistance of other officers, tried to have him killed, but Serpico survived (with a bullet lodged in his skull). Even though he is one of the most highly decorated retired NYPD officers, he still gets hate mail from active-duty cops for his testimony to the Knapp Commission.

      The only difference today is that more people carry cameras.

    7. Re:I'm shocked ... by fisted · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In my opinion, Police officers should be begging for tamper resistant body cams. It helps the honest cops and would help weed out the bad ones.

      Assuming the majority of cops are in fact honest 'good cops', we should expect to see some serious begging for tamper resistant body cams.
      Do we? (Or rather, do you? I don't live in the US)

      --
      CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
    8. Re:I'm shocked ... by thedonger · · Score: 2

      I wonder if it's reached a point where abuse of power is regular, or if it always has been and it's only the fact that nearly everyone carries a camera.

      I'm sure there was way more outright police corruption in the early 20th century.

      Power corrupts. Money corrupts. It has been true as long as they have been around.

      --
      Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
    9. Re:I'm shocked ... by argStyopa · · Score: 2

      Personally, if I was a cop, I'd be ASKING to wear a body camera 24/7 now.

      But then again, I'm not a cop because I know it's a crazy hard job and that I'd probably just wind up shooting someone for being "1000th person to lie to my face today".

      And I'll say it again here as I've said in other places, there should be a "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?: clause in the law, whereby anyone with authority over something is punished at a category-higher severity than a normal person, when the crime relates to that thing. When a person accepts authority over something, part of that SHOULD BE a higher-than-normal level of responsibility as well.
      So for example, a parent would be punished automatically more severely for beating their custodial child, than Joe Citizen would be punished for punching Jim Citizen. A nurse stealing from his patients would be punished more severely than someone just stealing from a random other person. And, in this context, police abusing their authority as officers to extort (for example) would be punished more severely than an unrelated person.

      But then again, this will never pass because of course it would logically apply to Congressmen as well.

      --
      -Styopa
    10. Re:I'm shocked ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Look, policing is a hard, dangerous, often thankless job, and you have to understand that not everybody who wants to do it is qualified. When you hand an unqualified person a badge and a gun, they don't suddenly become qualified -- in fact, they become a liability to police everywhere.

      You know how everybody is calling for police to wear cameras nowadays? It's not because we want to see what a day in the life of a policeman is. It's because cops are so untrustworthy that the only way to know if they're lying is to check the video. If the word of a cop was beyond reproach, it wouldn't even be an issue. The fact of the matter is that we know cops lie, cover up, and falsify evidence so frequently that only video will tell us the truth.

      And the problem isn't just the 1% of cops who actually break the law, it's also the rest of them that cover for the criminals with badges. If you look at the Freddie Gray, there were 6 police officers involved, all of whom could have called bullshit on the whole thing. Instead, though, they all backed each other up, from the false arrest, to the falsifying of charges, to the brutality of his arrest, to the ignoring of his pleas for help.

      I just don't understand why good cops lie to cover for bad ones, but they're the reason we have to have articles like this.

      dom

    11. Re:I'm shocked ... by Runaway1956 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes. So - let's have the video. In one case, the video proves me wrong. In the next case, the video proves me wrong again. In the next case, I see the evidence that "my side" is right. And, that's the way it should be.

      A cop's word should carry no more weight than your word or mine in a court of law. The cop should have to PROVE HIS CASE.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    12. Re:I'm shocked ... by Forgefather · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Really. It's not possible to extrapolate anything from that number. After all one of the biggest abuses of policing is the way that they deliver routine tickets in such volume that it financially cripples a community. Ferguson has more warrants for arrest than people and almost all of them are for failure to pay traffic fines. Living in fear of a police officer pulling you over for being over the limit by a single MPH (Yes this does happen) and giving you a ticket that will put you in debt for years (and possibly prison) is the very definition of abuse.

      Granted not all of that rests on the heads of cops. Most of it resides on the government and court system that allow loan sharks to take over the collections of tickets in a way that traps the people in debt. These agencies offer to take over collections for free but then add a service charge to ticket payed by the person cited. All of the money that the person pays goes towards that fee until it is payed off, but the fee keeps increasing with missed payments. The result is that these people are stuck in a cycle of payments until a warrant goes out for their arrest for failing to pay a ticket and then they are sent to prison.

      As the Ferguson report on policing practices said: when the city mayor asked the police chief to deliver 10% more revenue he responded "we can try."

      I'm sure that most of these stops were perfectly routine. Doesn't mean that the police aren't being abusive.

      --
      "There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics"
    13. Re:I'm shocked ... by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      I live in the Corporate States of America. Here, the more responsibility you have, the less responsible you have to be. The guy hired last week to mop the floors will be fired immediately if a bottle of floor wax should come up missing. The CEO can artfully relocate millions of dollars, and he'll get a bonus for doing it.

      Crazy world we live in.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    14. Re:I'm shocked ... by tweak13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Their job is hard (and quoting stats comparing cops to fisherman is pointless, ...

      Why is using actual data on how dangerous the job is compared to other jobs pointless? Because it doesn't support your argument?

      ... fish don't have shotguns in the back seat)

      Neither do the vast, vast majority of people.

    15. Re:I'm shocked ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Their job is hard (and quoting stats comparing cops to fisherman is pointless, fish don't have shotguns in the back seat).

      Why is it pointless? Is feeding people less important than guarding them? For every cop who lost a buddy on the job, there's a fisherman who has lost a dozen. Do you truly believe that fishermen don't face that reality every day? For every cop that gets shot, five farmhands drown while cleaning grain silos, falling in and suffocating on corn. Just because they won't get a parade or a headline doesn't mean they don't understand the risks. The cop patrolling the highway is half as likely to die serving you than the truck driver hauling your food to the supermarket.

      Every meal you eat came with a blood price. Be grateful.

    16. Re:I'm shocked ... by tnk1 · · Score: 2

      Would you like to be filmed going about your job? Of course some cops don't want to be the stars of their own reality shows. That implies nothing other than it feels intrusive to them.

      That said, they have the power to arrest and to use deadly force. They need to be held to the highest standard. If body cams will do that, then they should be wearing them.

      They're not perfect, however. There will still be some incidents where the camera footage is misleading or inconclusive about what may have happened due to odd camera angles or malfunctions. We still need to be able to accept the word of a cop when there is no camera footage, which means we need to ensure that we're getting the best trained and professional officers in the field.

  3. Re:To think I once subscribed to this site by xombo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you think government abuses is something limited to a concern of the left then you a totally out of touch with reality and the libertarian wing of your own (assumed) party.

  4. Stay objective. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    On the one hand, routine dismissal of serious allegations suggests protection of corruption.

    On the other hand, allegations do not imply guilt. Any criminal that dislikes being caught by the police can make such allegations.

    I will reserve judgment until the evidence is available.

    1. Re:Stay objective. by PPH · · Score: 2

      The people with the power and authority to collect and present the evidence are the people with the power to suppress the evidence about themselves.

      Not so much in Washington State (Seattle). Body cam and dash cam videos are available via the Public Records Act. So, not much suppression going on here. In fact, adoption of body cams has been hindered. Not by concerns of the authorities, afraid that their behavior will be observed, but by members of the public who might end up as the subject of a recording and want to protect their privacy.

      police aware they are being recorded while they are committing what you perceive as a criminal act then you endanger yourself.

      This needs to be fixed. Probably at the federal level*. If members of the public are far enough back from some activity to not be interfering with it, then holding a camera shouldn't change that. And if the police can't tolerate observation of their conduct, then its not legitimate police business and deserves no protection from 'interference'.

      *There are still some law enforcement personnel (in Seattle and surrounding cities) that talk like Sheriff Bull Connor with his, "We don't need any feds telling us how to run our business" language. In spite of the high tech image, there's a strong streak of embedder redneck trash in this part of the country.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Stay objective. by bigpat · · Score: 2

      police aware they are being recorded while they are committing what you perceive as a criminal act then you endanger yourself.

      This needs to be fixed. Probably at the federal level*. If members of the public are far enough back from some activity to not be interfering with it, then holding a camera shouldn't change that.

      Agreed. The former chief justice of the Massachusetts Supreme Court was on the radio today saying that this was her strongest dissent in an opinion. The same supposedly liberal court that legalized gay marriage also said that people could be prosecuted under the state wiretap law for recording audio of what they perceive is police misconduct.

      If it is a felony to record audio of public officials performing public duties in a public place, then there is no freedom of press.

  5. Re:To think I once subscribed to this site by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Oh, look, fascists defending corrupt police forces.

    How cute.

    And though they have only combed through a small portion of the data, they say they have found several instances of officers appearing to lie, use racist language, and use excessive forceâ"with no consequences. In fact, they believe that the Office of Professional Accountability (OPA) has systematically "run interference" for cops. In the aforementioned cases of alleged officer misconduct, all of the involved officers were exonerated and still remain on the force.

    "We're trying to do OPA's job for them because OPA was so explicitly not interested in doing their own job," said Rachner.

    When the police ignore the law without consequence, someone needs to be doing something, because clearly the damned police are incapable of it.

    Sorry, but crooked cops are just criminals like the rest of them ... and they deserve the same treatment.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  6. News at 11 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Two Seattle programmers were arrested on alleged drug charges, and passed away while in police custody. The SPD will investigate the incident.

  7. Isn't Seattle already under a "consent decree"? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Informative

    Isn't Seattle already under a "consent decree"? (That's basically when the Feds descend on a police force - ala Ferguson - because they want to clean it up.)
    http://www.seattletimes.com/se...

    And isn't there already a full body - with it's own web site - monitoring it?
    http://www.seattlemonitor.com/

    1. Re:Isn't Seattle already under a "consent decree"? by guruevi · · Score: 2

      It seems like neither of those sources are doing anything good. If Seattle is already being cleaned up and has it's own monitor website and then a couple of nerds uncover troves of issues, then neither the government nor the monitor is doing it's job and is more likely helping to cover things up rather than expose them.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    2. Re:Isn't Seattle already under a "consent decree"? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2

      >> neither of those sources are doing anything good

      Failure ahead for Obama in Baltimore, then? However, note that the "nerds" research only covers 2010-2013: that's BEFORE the consent decree went in. In other words, if they can show it's STILL going on...

      >> more likely helping to cover things up rather than expose them

      Admittedly, that's half the attraction of a consent decree to a local police department. The Feds come in but no one gets sued.

  8. Re:To think I once subscribed to this site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Uhhh, I think it reads that all of the 11 most investigated officers are still on the force. You are applying the predicate of one sentence to the subject of the previous one. By your logic (applied to this post) the 11 most investigated officers are mixing up their sentence structure.

  9. Expand to other jurisdictions? by bkr1_2k · · Score: 2

    Can they expand their investigation to include other jurisdictions? This kind of information needs to be available (and compiled) for every police jurisdiction in the country. If we can do that we might get some accurate records of police actions since the government is disinclined to do so (even though they passed a law requiring it 4 or 5 years ago.)

    --
    "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    1. Re:Expand to other jurisdictions? by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      No, they don't "pull records". They have to plead, beg, threaten, cajole and go to court to get the records. They have submitted requests for tons of records, and they've gotten some small percentage of what they've requested. But, even that small percentage is a treasure trove of data.

      Long story short - the cops are still deciding what to release, when, and how. You don't get any data until the PD has approved it's release.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  10. The "and order" part. by JimSadler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Law is one thing and order quite another. My view of the cops is that they are aware that they can no longer hold the line and are in a sort of panic. What is orderly is often confusing and very subjective whereas what is legal is usually more sharply defined. Part of the problem is money. Tax payers don't like to pay taxes and as a consequence we do not require college degrees for cops. The consequence is that we end up with some pretty primitive personalities working as cops. Sloppy language results in sloppy thinking. For example police have to be instructed on how to stay safe and stay alive. But the cops on the receiving end of the training falsely translate that training into an idea that they must have absolute safety. Absolute safety is not available for any type of employment much less being a cop. That is why we are seeing cops that are a bit quick to get violent and their training amplifies the problem. For example if they shoot a suspect one time should they really be trained to keep shooting until the subject is down and not moving at all? The public is also at fault as in days gone by any person who ran for any reason was subject to being shot so very few people tried to run. Now running from cops is common and the cops do not shoot simply because a person is running and that exposes cops to a lot more risk. And these three strikes laws cause a lot of violence as well. A bad guy has nothing to lose by running if a third incident will get him life without hope of parole. Cruel and unpleasant jails also assure and create violence as resisting arrest is sort of logical if one is about to be dropped into some kind of degrading hell pit. There is plenty of guilt to go around and as much guilt falls on the tax payers as upon the criminals.

    1. Re: The "and order" part. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually it's quite the opposite.

      Abuses arise when cops don't care about law, they care about "order". Order is a nebulous concept that they can enforce however they see fit.

      This is, likewise, why many people don't see the problem with cops murdering a black man in Baltimore, but they are very upset about people burning down a CVS. The first is in keeping with the order of things -- cops are supposed to beat up black people -- whereas burning down a store is the essence of disorder.

  11. Cue the bleating about attacking the police... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Whoops. Too late.
    Look, I get that the assumption from TFA is that the 99% exoneration rate is too high, but what have we in the way of substantive evidence that this is actually so? [crickets]
    Yeah, thought so, and that is a problem. It's always a case of who do you believe, the cop or the criminal, when investigating cases of corruption and brutality, and it is more than reasonable to assume that, more often than not, the criminal is full of shit. So how do we do justice to those who actually do have a valid grievance? Body cams would be a good start. They would do far more to defend good cops than catch bad ones, so let's stop dithering and make this commonplace tech a requirement.

  12. Re:To think I once subscribed to this site by MobSwatter · · Score: 2

    There are any number of abuses that can go on behind the shield, cops can be among the best criminals because they know the job and know how not to get caught, they know forensics etc etc etc. There are dirty cops out there and unfortunately in this day and age the good ones are the minority. I don't think cops in Seattle with dysfunction and abuse is a localized problem to either the department or the region, it is a national problem.

  13. Libertarians are to the right of Republicans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Don't assume all libertarians find the police beyond reproach, or support the republican party!

    The Libertarians have been the far right of the Republican Party since they nominated Ron Raul as their presidential candidate. At the time of Paul's nomination he had most conservative voting record in congress since the end of WWII.

    1. Re:Libertarians are to the right of Republicans by mc6809e · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Saying Libertarians are "far-right" is like saying sqrt(-1) is more positive than zero.

    2. Re:Libertarians are to the right of Republicans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The facts, that is voting records of their candidates, contradict their claims to the otherwise.

    3. Re:Libertarians are to the right of Republicans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      By an objective, international standard, US politics falls right of center.

      That means that what an American describes as "right" is actually far right, what an American describes as "center" is actually right, and what an American describes as "left" is actually center.

      Hopefully that clarifies things for you. It's not that there's a global conspiracy to describe things as further right than they actually are. It's that your perspective, as an American, makes things appear that way.

      That being said, American neoconservatives and "libertarians" are both far right, by an objective, international standard.

    4. Re:Libertarians are to the right of Republicans by deadweight · · Score: 2

      If you spend any time abroad in any other democracy, you will find what the USA right thinks of as a screaming raving commie socialist marxist lunatic would be center or center-right anywhere else.

    5. Re:Libertarians are to the right of Republicans by chihowa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Authoritarians, of both the "left" and "right" wings, love to use government force. The authoritarian-libertarian axis is completely unrepresented in the left-right political spectrum.

      Almost all of the politicians in DC are somewhat, to extremely, authoritarian. Most citizens are considerably less authoritarian than our politicians and many citizens are very libertarian. As long as everybody is totally obsessed with the left-right dichotomy, though, and assumed that the other wing embodied authoritarianism, we'll keep getting more and more authoritarians in our system.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    6. Re:Libertarians are to the right of Republicans by Qzukk · · Score: 2

      Authoritarians, of both the "left" and "right" wings, love to use government force

      Agreed, look no farther than reactions to the war on drugs. A local government banning Big Gulps because it's bad for you is government overreach into areas of your life and people should have the personal responsibility not to overuse, but we need to spend billions of dollars at the federal level to prevent people with no personal responsibility from smoking a plant they grew in their own backyard because it's bad for you.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    7. Re:Libertarians are to the right of Republicans by Rich0 · · Score: 2

      I think the challenge lies with socialism. It is difficult to have socialism without a fair bit of authoritarianism.

      As soon as you pay for somebody's diabetes, you start to care about what they're eating. My main concern with that is that the kinds of restrictions that everybody wants to impose are based on conventional wisdom but rarely have any kind of serious clinical outcomes behind them. Granted, that is pretty hard to measure when it comes to diet, but if we're going to tell people what they can/can't eat on the basis that we don't want to pay for their health problems, then we should have pretty strong evidence that they will actually have health problems.

      If you don't have socialism then you can be more minimal in your regulation, since people will tend to look after their own stuff and if for whatever reason they can't, well, sucks to be them I guess is the libertarian motto. I tend to lean libertarian except where it conflicts with socialism. If you're going to interfere with somebody's life you ought to have a really good reason for it, but taking care of somebody who for whatever reason is too weak/dumb/whatever to take care of themselves is a good reason.

  14. Re:To think I once subscribed to this site by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 2

    Right wing authoritarians think anyone who questions authority is a tricksy leftist. They're morons.

  15. Re:The Elephant in the Room by kilfarsnar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All this talk about the police, and how bad they are. Sure, there are some bad ones, but on the whole, I do not fear the police. It is the niggers I fear. THAT is the conversation this country needs to have. Why the niggers are completely out of control, and what needs to be done about it.

    Maybe if you stopped calling them niggers, they'd be nicer to you. Know what I mean, asshole?

    --
    "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  16. Re:To think I once subscribed to this site by Runaway1956 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "criminals or otherwise people on the police radar."

    And, in this day and age, just what does it take to show up on "radar"? For instance - DHS has stated that "extremists" includes veterans, Christians, survivalists, sovereigners, on and on and on. Oh - note that it's not just "Christian fundamentalists" anymore, but "Christians" in general. Funny that one - all the gays are clamoring to be accepted into the churches - which makes gays extremists now too!

    I'm on the "radar" multiple times. I don't even try to get through an airport. I'd have to kill someone.

    --
    "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  17. Things like this will only increase by ErichTheRed · · Score: 2

    I think that most people understand there are a certain percentage of truly bad cops who will tamper with evidence, lie, etc. to get what they need. The thing that's new is the Internet, social media, and the ability for guys like these to collect and publish records. If a bystander hadn't taken (or published) the video of that guy in South Carolina being shot, the cop would still be working today and no one would have said a thing. It used to be extremely rare that something like this surfaced, and it often took a major news organization to do the kind of investigating and analysis.

    You can't go into law enforcement without having at least some tendencies towards being a bully. I think that, plus the unlimited authority police get, plus the fact that they deal almost exclusively with "bad" people produce the police that make the headlines. I don't know how most are able to keep their bully tendencies in check when they never work with good people, plus racism and fellow officers reinforcing bad behavior probably have an effect over time as well. The end product of that is the stereotypical "bully with a badge" that gets the most media attention.

    In the age when anyone can post video of bad police behavior, the only answer is to have tamper proof cameras on police every time they interact with the public. It's too easy for people to make false claims, and it used to be too easy for the police to sweep things under the rug.

  18. Need more data by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The only evidence uncovered is that the PD has a robust system for reporting and investigating claims.

    That's not quite true - the evidence suggests only that they have a robust system for reporting and recording claims. I've not seen any evidence to suggest that they robustly investigate them and the OP claims that there is evidence of them using unnecessary force and racist language without repercussion which, if substantiated, would be clear evidence of very poor investigation.

    I completely agree that having a large fraction of claims refused is not evidence that the system is not working. It does suggest that the system should be investigated to understand why there are such a lot of dismissed complaints because either cops are having to endure a lot of frivolous discipline cases or they are getting away with serious misconduct. Either possibility is bad but the statistics provided do not distinguish between the two cases.

  19. Re:To think I once subscribed to this site by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Leftists are authoritarians who hate authority on themselves, but want it on everyone else. Just like Rightwingers.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  20. Re:To think I once subscribed to this site by nbauman · · Score: 3, Informative

    There are any number of abuses that can go on behind the shield, cops can be among the best criminals because they know the job and know how not to get caught, they know forensics etc etc etc. There are dirty cops out there and unfortunately in this day and age the good ones are the minority. I don't think cops in Seattle with dysfunction and abuse is a localized problem to either the department or the region, it is a national problem.

    Not only that, but when they do get caught, they get a free pass from their fellow pigsxxxx cops who refuse to arrest them, from the district attorneys who refuse to prosecute them, from judges who pretend to believe blatant lies, and from the juries who talk themselves into believing blatant lies.
    http://www.vice.com/read/testi...
    Testilying: Cops Are Liars Who Get Away with Perjury
    February 3, 2013
    By Nick Malinowski

  21. Re:To think I once subscribed to this site by Chalnoth · · Score: 2

    Yes. And when there's no accountability (as is the case pretty much everywhere in the US), crooked cops become the norm rather than the exception.

  22. Re:To think I once subscribed to this site by haruchai · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "especially since Rodney King, which made it en vogue"
    En vogue?
    Rodney King did not make a fucking fashion statement; he got the shit beaten out of him like I'd never seen before by several officers, who punched, kicked, and Tasered him with several dozen baton blows thrown in for good measure.

    --
    Pain is merely failure leaving the body
  23. Re:To think I once subscribed to this site by Livius · · Score: 2

    The left-wing assumes people never abuse a system, and are shocked when they are forced to acknowledge that it happens.

    The right-wing assumes everyone will abuse a system, whatever it is, and usually starting with themselves.