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Court of Appeals Says Samsung's Legal Payments To Apple Should Be Reduced

Mark Wilson writes: Patent lawsuits in the world of technology are nothing new, and the case between Apple and Samsung resulted in one of the largest fines ever being handed down. Samsung was order to pay $930 million in damages after a court found that the company had violated Apple patents with its smartphone and tablet designs. Today the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit overturned part of the original ruling, saying that the jury was wrong to say that Samsung infringed on Apple's trade dress intellectual property. The exact details of what this will mean are yet to come out, but it should lead to a fairly hefty reduction in Samsung's legal costs.

66 comments

  1. I miss Groklaw. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    If only there was one convenient place where all the information about Apple v Samsung was collected, including all the reasons for this reversal...

    1. Re:I miss Groklaw. by suutar · · Score: 1

      TFA at least mentions that "trade dress" has restrictions regarding functionality versus brand identity, but wikipedia is much more informative to my mind. But yeah, I'd love to see a place that collected this stuff. Wikilegal, anyone? :)

    2. Re:I miss Groklaw. by suutar · · Score: 1

      Which makes me think... pretty much all of Apple's design decisions have some functionality aspect, no? How do they get trade dress for anything?

    3. Re:I miss Groklaw. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is this article: http://www.scriptol.com/mobile/apple-against-android.php and on the verge: http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/30/3199424/apple-vs-samsung-trial-guide

    4. Re:I miss Groklaw. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You get trade dress on the non-functional part.

      Orange's Orange garb is not functional in so far as the COLOUR goes. They can't get trade dress on the overalls' style, since that is generic. Nor on the vans an cars. But the colour, they can.

      Same here.

      Rounded corners (and don't give me BS about "it's not rounded corners". Go to the patent. There's fuck all BUT corners- not even aspect ratios or curve radius appears in the patent - and a picture of someone holding the tablet).

    5. Re:I miss Groklaw. by dj245 · · Score: 1

      You get trade dress on the non-functional part.

      Orange's Orange garb is not functional in so far as the COLOUR goes. They can't get trade dress on the overalls' style, since that is generic. Nor on the vans an cars. But the colour, they can.

      Same here.

      Rounded corners (and don't give me BS about "it's not rounded corners". Go to the patent. There's fuck all BUT corners- not even aspect ratios or curve radius appears in the patent - and a picture of someone holding the tablet).

      I believe the correct patent number is D670286. This is the first time I have looked at this patent. I encourage everyone to take a brief look at it, it is a very short read and even more ridiculous than I ever could have imagined. I've read my share of BS patents but this one takes the cake.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
  2. Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's sad to see a marketing company that copies everyone else fleece an innovator like Samsung. At least the amount is being reduced since patenting the shape of a smart phone is absurd.

    1. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Samsung doesn't innovate any more than Apple.

      2. The shape of a phone is a trade dress intellectual property, not a patent.

    2. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      2. The shape of a phone is a trade dress intellectual property, not a patent.

      Which no company in the world should own in the first place. Just bloody stupid.

    3. Re:Fuck Apple by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      No, the shape of a phone is bloody obvious, given its function.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:Fuck Apple by suutar · · Score: 1

      the shape of a phone is trade dress if it is not done for functional reasons. What has apple done that they don't claim a functional reason for? Round corners have an obvious functional aspect: they're not pointy, so they don't poke you in the hands.

    5. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > not a patent.

      Apple were issued with a _patent_ on their design. It is a 'design patent'.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent

    6. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Samsung defense force activate! Form of... the Korean government!

    7. Re:Fuck Apple by saloomy · · Score: 0

      But it wasn't the shape of a smartphone when Apple came out with the iPhone. Smartphones had QWERTY keyboards on the bottom half, slide-out keyboards on the rest of them, or some form of advanced 10-key system for textual input. NO ONE had a "full screen, nothing but" phone with the shape the iPhone had, no one.

      There will undoubtably be slash dotters feeling superior screaming "Rounded corners?! Bah!" , since no one actually reads TFA or the relevant material. The Patent covers things like relative dimensions (think one by four by nine for the monolith), lack of physical buttons, etc, etc... as well as the degree and parameters to which the corners were rounded. When Samsung's own lawyers were shown an iPhone and a Galaxy side-by-side, he could not tell them apart at a distance of 16 ft. thats pretty bad, don't you think? They used the same outer diameter on the rounded corners, the same dimensions, the same "form factor". Not that they shouldn't have, its a GREAT form factor. But they should need to differentiate their product sufficiently since its a competing product in the same industry, or compensate with a license to use that trade dress. That's known as a "trade dress", and economic minds know that to stimulate innovation in these area's you need to protect the inventors in this space, which, I'm sorry to say, was Apple this time.

    8. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's sad to see a marketing company that copies everyone else fleece an innovator like Samsung. At least the amount is being reduced since patenting the shape of a smart phone is absurd.

      MODDING THE ABOVE DRIVEL "INSIGHTFUL"?!?!?

      Really, Mods? Really?

    9. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the shape of a phone is bloody obvious, given its function.

      It wasn't obvious until the iPhone.

    10. Re:Fuck Apple by execthis · · Score: 1

      When Samsung's own lawyers were shown an iPhone and a Galaxy side-by-side, he could not tell them apart at a distance of 16 ft. thats pretty bad, don't you think?

      No, because that's generally what small personal electronic devices look like.
      Having square corners on them is kind of stupid idea and I don't think that patenting or claiming trade dress on something not being stupid is quite valid, much less innovative.
      As for the first in not having a mechanical keyboard, whether that is true or not, that is just something that could be expected to be designed as devices evolve and model designs change. Laying some kind of "We got there first!" claim on something like that reeks of... greed.

    11. Re:Fuck Apple by ahabswhale · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Samsung has never innovated anything. They've copied Apple every chance they got.

      --
      Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
    12. Re:Fuck Apple by sjames · · Score: 1

      Actually it was. What wasn't obvious was the technology to make it work reliably, but Apple didn't invent that, they waited for it.

    13. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      NO ONE had a "full screen, nothing but" phone with the shape the iPhone had, no one.

      False

    14. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's how you're protected by counterfit goods, genius. It absolutely does need to be there.

    15. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Apple has copied Braun in everything they have done.

      Your point?

    16. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Smartphones had QWERTY keyboards on the bottom half, slide-out keyboards on the rest of them, or some form of advanced 10-key system for textual input. NO ONE had a "full screen, nothing but" phone with the shape the iPhone had, no one."

      This is just bull.
      http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/samsung-pre-iphone-designs-640x418.png

      The iphone design was a result of several technologies coming together around the same time:
      - Mobile CPUs with reasonable performance / battery
      - battery technology
      - Colour LCD screens with sufficient cost/quality
      - Capacitive multi-touch
      - Wireless cellular data standards

      None of this Apple invented. In fact there is a pretty strong argument that Samsung were much more involved in several of those.
      Various technologies were converging to the point where an iphone like design became not only practical, but inevitable. Many manufacturers had noticed the same convergence and were working on similar designs. Pressure from competing designs is likely the reason that Apple went public with the product 6 months before the release date in an effort to maintain first mover advantage.

    17. Re: Fuck Apple by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      Samsung make all sorts of devices. Does their refrigerator line steal ideas from the iFridge? The iPhone looks like a small TV to me. That's not an original idea either.

    18. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why did the iPhone suddenly make a shape that was common for years obvious?

    19. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Samsung produces many types of products, Apple only a few. Samsung actually introduced new technologies in the past ten years. Apple did not. At best, they where the first to add a specific component designed and produced by others to a specific type of product.

    20. Re:Fuck Apple by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Having done some research, it seems you're right. Pictures were triangular, books were round and walkmans (walkmen? - Ed) were in the form of a stellated dodecahedron.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    21. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And totally unlike Apple, who had the POTUS make an official statement protecting them from Samsung's accusation, right? Because that's totally different. It's Apple, right?

    22. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's sad to see a marketing company that copies everyone else fleece an innovator like Samsung. At least the amount is being reduced since patenting the shape of a smart phone is absurd.

      +3 insightful? How about +5 pandering troll?

      Samsung flat out copied Apple. There were memos, there was a concerted effort, it's a fact. Other competitors took some elements, but the single fact that Samsung that they copied "rounded corners" isn't the case, it's that they copied so many designed elements to clone the iPhone, it's stated in the case, and it's obvious by looking at the list, and the items.

      Whether or not it's legal? Who gives a fuck. I can't believe people fell with modding this common troll/fanboy shit up. It's old, fucking old. Two Goliaths fighting over standard bullshit copying that took place during the industrial revolution. NOT NEWS.

    23. Re:Fuck Apple by gnupun · · Score: 1

      Even if Apple copied Braun, the products are not the same and there are plenty of differences in the design. Whereas Samsung copied iPhone the whole stock and barrel, up from the biggest things down to lowest details. That's called copycatting. Samsung owes its smartphone revenues to Apple and they richly deserve this fine.

    24. Re:Fuck Apple by gnupun · · Score: 1

      it's that they copied so many designed elements to clone the iPhone, it's stated in the case, and it's obvious by looking at the list, and the items.

      Patents are too powerful and copyright too weak to protect from such copycatting. Are the lawmakers sleeping? It's a digital world where companies thrive from intellectual work. Where are the laws to prevent such blatant design copying?

    25. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Samsung has never innovated anything. They've copied Apple every chance they got.

      But not the iPhone. Samsung did it first.

    26. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Samsung flat out copied Apple.

      But not the iPhone. Samsung did it first.

    27. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the shape of a phone is trade dress if it is not done for functional reasons. What has apple done that they don't claim a functional reason for? Round corners have an obvious functional aspect: they're not pointy, so they don't poke you in the hands.

      And yet Samsung claimed Apple got the design from the "pads" in 2001 - the only thing in the movie with pointier edges is the fucking monolith.

    28. Re:Fuck Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Samsung has never innovated anything. They've copied Apple every chance they got.

      But not the iPhone. Samsung did it first.

      They had designs before the iPhone came out. And Apple had designs before Samsung had those designs, and before Apple ordered parts for those designs from Samsung.

  3. Not reduced enough, I guarantee it by Jax+Omen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Unless, of course, it's being reduced to $0.

    Whole case was insane to begin with.

    1. Re:Not reduced enough, I guarantee it by Gr8Apes · · Score: 0

      Did Samsung knowingly and intentionally copy the iPhone? Yes and yes.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    2. Re:Not reduced enough, I guarantee it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously Samsung copied Apple's rounded corners. Square corners on electronics designed to go into your pocket would be FUCKING STUPID, see Sony's shitty phones for reasons why. Likewise claiming that rounded corners are innovative and significantly identified solely with an iPhone is fucking stupid. Apple's lawyers and staff should be beaten bloody with 1G iphones for abusing copyright, patent and trademark for obvious things.

    3. Re:Not reduced enough, I guarantee it by flopsquad · · Score: 3, Informative

      Did Samsung knowingly and intentionally copy the iPhone? Yes and yes.

      The problem--and the Federal Circuit recognized this--is that Samsung copying Apple's "trade dress" was not something for which Apple could get damages, because the iPhone trade dress was functional and hence not protectable.

      Trade dress is a subset of trademark law, and trademarks generally operate indefinitely. Trademarks cannot be functional, because if we allowed that, you could do an end run around the (constitutionally mandated) "limited time" afforded to patents. If your identifying feature happens to also be useful (e.g. it makes your phone more durable or usable), you can get a utility or design patent on it. But not a trademark.

      Thus Samsung or anyone is free to copy any unprotectable trademark/trade dress material embodied in the iPhone. But notice that CAFC left the patent award intact.

      --
      Nothing posted to /. has ever been legal advice, including this.
    4. Re:Not reduced enough, I guarantee it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My samsung phone looks nothing like an iphone.

      No and no.

    5. Re:Not reduced enough, I guarantee it by execthis · · Score: 1

      I wholeheartedly agree. This has been an immense waste of, ultimately, consumers' money over what amounts to crap. I don't understand how that judge in the UK could have sided with Samsung yet in the US the court sided with Apple. I love what the UK judge said too about Samsung not being as "cool" as Apple. LOL.

    6. Re:Not reduced enough, I guarantee it by execthis · · Score: 1

      How are the Chinese American Family Coalition involved in this?

    7. Re:Not reduced enough, I guarantee it by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A year before the iPhone was announced Samsung released a digital photo frame that looks exactly like it. The only difference is that it wasn't a phone. That's how mid 2000s electronics looked.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Not reduced enough, I guarantee it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then why did they never sell this iPhone copy? Sounds like a waste of resources.

    9. Re:Not reduced enough, I guarantee it by flopsquad · · Score: 1

      How are the Chinese American Family Coalition involved in this?

      Good question! They filed a brief with the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit urging them to think of the children... specifically the Chinese children who build iPhones.

      Outside, the Crematory Assistants for Cremation almost settled their long-running feud with the Cemetery Activist Funerary Club, but they couldn't decide whether to burn or bury the hatchet.

      And the Canadians Against Feral Cats told them both, "I don't care which one of you does it, but someone has to pare the persistently problematic pussy population, doncha know?"

      --
      Nothing posted to /. has ever been legal advice, including this.
    10. Re:Not reduced enough, I guarantee it by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      Someone posted this interesting link above.... clearly the iPhone borrowed heavily from what Samsung had already released.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    11. Re:Not reduced enough, I guarantee it by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1
      And, interestingly enough, they were all in development, as was the iphone in 2004. And there was the issue with Eric Schmidt:

      Apple launched the iPhone in January of 2007. Eleven months later, in November of 2007, Google showed a video that effectively juxtaposed Google-Android's original pre-iPhone "before" prototype which looked and operated more like a Blackberry button-driven phone, with Google-Android's post-iPhone-launch "after" prototype that heavily-resembled the look-and-feel of the iPhone and incorporated many of Apple's signature touch-screen inventions. In October 2008, T-Mobile released the G1, Google's first Android phone.

      You can draw whatever conclusions you want, but it is hard to argue that Android did not change in nature due to Schmidt's privileged knowledge.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    12. Re:Not reduced enough, I guarantee it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A year before the iPhone was announced Samsung released a digital photo frame that looks exactly like it. The only difference is that it wasn't a phone. That's how mid 2000s electronics looked.

      Looked exactly like it - until you looked at the back bulging out 5 inches, not to mention that odd stick-stand. BTW, for the next generation (which also came out before the iPhone) Samsung switched to a design totally different design - with pointy edges.

  4. also doesn't break, as any *smith knows by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Also, as anyone who makes things (any things) knows, sharp corners have thin edges, which break, get dinged up and worn down. Chamfering edges and corners makes them last longer. It's also easier to mold, and to make molds - you can use a rotating mill bit rather than hand-chiseling.

    1. Re:also doesn't break, as any *smith knows by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Sharp corners also damage other objects, like clothes, bags & children.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  5. Oh come on by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I had never seen a black rectangle with rounded edges before the iPhone! ... ...well unless you count the TV I had as a child. And the TV I have now. And probably half the electronics in my house.

    The whole "trade dress" concept seems a bit silly to me in the first place but ti is beyond stupid when they can claim something as simple as their rounded rectangular design as being "trade dress".

    1. Re:Oh come on by toonces33 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The communicators in the original Star Trek were sort of like this. The original Moto Razr copied some design elements from that - if you just take that phone and permanently flatten it, you have something roughly the same shape and size as an iPhone.

    2. Re:Oh come on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My calculator back in the early 1990's had rounded corners.

      Most things you put in your pocket do to avoid them getting stuck.

      Amazing what you can patent/trademark.

    3. Re:Oh come on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The communicators in the original Star Trek were sort of like this.

      They weren't black. They weren't rectangles. They gad n display. Turn in your geek card. Or your Samsung astroturfers club card.

  6. What is "trade dress"? by execthis · · Score: 1

    I've never heard the term "trade dress" before. What does it mean?

    1. Re:What is "trade dress"? by vux984 · · Score: 1
    2. Re:What is "trade dress"? by execthis · · Score: 1

      Thank you! That was really cool!

    3. Re:What is "trade dress"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The question is: is the trade dress blue and black or white and gold?

    4. Re:What is "trade dress"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How did you score a 6-digit UID? eBay?

  7. Terrible article, and reduction wasn't on patents by Theaetetus · · Score: 5, Informative
    First, from the article:

    The full court documents go into some details about the reasons for the decision. It explains that "the requirement that the unregistered trade dress 'serves no purpose other than identification' cannot be reasonably inferred from the evidence" (trade dress patents cover design elements that are functional as well as aesthetic) so a recalculation is in order.

    The article is confusing two things here... First is trade dress, which is part of trademark law and covers the look and feel of something. It's under the commerce clause of the Constitution, and is codified in the Lanham Act at 17 USC 1051-1127. Trade dress is also a common law doctrine (and some states, particularly the original colonies, have their own state trademark law), and accordingly, there is such a thing as unregistered trade dress rights (there are also registered trade dress rights).
    Second is design patents, which are part of patent law and also cover the look and feel of something. It's under the patent clause of the Constitution, and is codified in the patent act (35 USC 100 onwards). There is no such thing as an unregistered design patent or a "trade dress patent".

    Finally, neither trade dress nor design patents can cover functionality. They only apply to aesthetic features or "surface ornamentation".

    "But wait, Theaetetus," some Slashdotters protest. "Rounded corners are always functional, because otherwise, you'd cut your fingers off on the sharp edge!"
    That's true, and neither the trade dress nor the design patents cover the concept of rounding a corner... Instead, they cover this specific radius of curvature. Specifically, why would you choose rounding the corner? To avoid sharp edges. Why did you choose a 1/8" radius instead of a 1/6"? An arbitrary aesthetic design choice.

    Moving on to the real point here...

    The jury found that Samsung infringed the (i) unregistered trade dress, (ii) registered trade dress, and (iii) design patents. With regard to the first one, the unregistered trade dress, Apple has the burden of proving that it's nonfunctional. They failed to do that, because the design as a whole offered some utilitarian advantages. So the damages placed by the jury because of (i) should be struck.

    Turning to (ii) the registered trade dress, this had nothing to do with rounded corners. The registered trade dress covered the 16 icons on the iPhone's home screen. The Court held that those icons have functional features, since they tell people whether they're clicking on email or a browser. So, since they're functional, the damages placed by the jury because of (ii) should also be struck.

    That leaves us with (iii), the design patents. Here, however, the jury was instructed to disregard any functional elements and focus just on the aesthetics. And here, Samsung loses, because they can't show any error in that.

    So, the jury award is reduced to just what is applicable to the patents, not the trade dress.

    As an aside, the court also upheld the validity of Apple's utility patents over Samsung's objections. So this is a net loss for Samsung.

  8. Not so hefty reduction... by Theaetetus · · Score: 2
    Probably not... as noted elsewhere, only the damages on the registered and unregistered trade dress were struck, while the damages on the patent infringement were upheld. The jury verdict form doesn't break down damages by patents vs. trade dress, but there were 7 patents that Samsung was found to infringe (5, willfully, which triples the damages); and there was only one trade dress registration and one unregistered trade dress that were shown to be protectable... and many of Samsung's devices were found to infringe the patents but not either of the trade dress claims, so it's not even going to be as big as a 2/9 reduction.

    For example, take the Samsung Epic 4G, which the jury counted as $130.1M in damages. It infringed all but one of the patents, but wasn't found to infringe either the unregistered or registered trade dress. So this judgement won't reduce that award by a penny. Same thing for any of the Samsung Galaxy S II models other than the Showcase, which collectively are $250M.

  9. PJ would be a bad commentator on this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PJ totally buys into the Apple Kool Aid. Every scenario was taken by fiat to be what Apple claimed, and any attempt to ask if some alternative view was possible led to shunning, refusals to converse and insistence you leave.

    What Compaq or SAMBA did and was fine was STILL fine, but when some company did the same to Apple, gaining interoperability with their boot system, was 100% illegal.

    Because it's Apple, not MS or Intel. Or, likely, anyone else.

    She was on the side of Apple here too, but left before it went very far and got ridiculously obvious what her double-standard was. Lots of posters were beginning to notice. That was likely the last straw for her, not the largest straw by a long shot, but the last one she could take: being taken to task for a double standard showing her own arguments would refute her this time, when they were good for her before.

    I'd already stopped going to Groklaw by then. It's not worth watching someone intelligent dump it on the roadside, there's no entertainment in that for me. And she didn't attempt to converse, only edicts emitted on the subject. Totally against the site's ideals.

  10. Re:Terrible article, and reduction wasn't on paten by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could you tell the difference between a 1/6th inch radius corner and a 1/8th inch radius corner at 1 foot? No? Then the court farce where people not knowing the difference between a Samsung and Apple phone is apparent under your claim. Did you point that out at the time? No? then you're a hypocrite.

    Oh, by the way, the patent didn't have the radius of the corner. They didn't even have the ratio of the device, the sides were dotted, therefore not part of the design patent.

    Stop claiming BS ideas just so Apple get to win in your mind, you brainwashed moron.

    Or maybe like others, your "problem" is China (well, Korea, but one AC moron didn't know the difference, which is hellishly amusing, so I repeat it for irony), whilst Apple are "American".

  11. Re:Terrible article, and reduction wasn't on paten by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can see why you replied to this as AC -- you responded to a well-crafted argument with complete drivel...