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Tim Cook: "Weakening Encryption Or Taking It Away Harms Good People"

Patrick O'Neill writes: Over the last year, Apple CEO Tim Cook has repeatedly made headlines as a spearpoint in the new crypto wars. As FBI director James Comey pushes for legally mandated backdoors on encryption, Cook has added default strong encryption to Apple devices and vocally resisted Comey's campaign. Echoing warnings from technical experts across the world, Cook said that adding encryption backdoors for law enforcement would weaken the security of all devices and "is incredibly dangerous," he said last night at the Electronic Privacy Information Center awards dinner. "So let me be crystal clear: Weakening encryption or taking it away harms good people who are using it for the right reason."

39 of 203 comments (clear)

  1. At least one thing that makes sense. by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Too many things these days that don't make sense. If you have a hole in a system it will be abused by malicious people.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    1. Re:At least one thing that makes sense. by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you have a hole in a system it will be abused by malicious people.

      Like the federal government.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:At least one thing that makes sense. by nine-times · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Like the federal government.

      Well I think the idea that "If you have a hole in a system, it will be abused by malicious people" is a big part of the reason I'm uncomfortable with the federal government having access to people's personal info. Yes, there's the whole danger of dictatorship and secret police and bla bla bla. It's a real danger, but it feels far off. Far more immediate is the danger of... just some asshole that works for the NSA or FBI abusing the access. For all the assurances that "we have access to your data, but we promise only to look at it after we get a warrant from a secret court," you know that there's some dude at the NSA looking through email from people he went to high school with, just for kicks. And that's creepy and all, but if that guy is also a bit crazy and malicious, he can do some damage to people's lives.

      So ultimately, the danger of the Federal government having access to your data is less that the Federal government is itself dangerous, but having access to private data without sufficient oversight is going to be abused by individuals within the Federal government.

    3. Re:At least one thing that makes sense. by Creepy · · Score: 2

      James Comey (head of the FBI) has pretty much said he wants all encryption outlawed. Having personally read a ton of emails that were not mine just for fun in college (via packet sniffer), including some very personal ones (though most not - I also scooped up numerous passwords but never used them... can't say that's true for the other kids that did the same, though), I'd say this is a terrible idea. Let's all go back to party lines, too, because you'll never know who's listening and therefore everyone is more secure.

        Incidentally, I learned never to send any private or personal information via email because I learned about and how to use packet sniffers. I would never sext or send personal info via text, either - only fools trust their phone company security (at least in America). Now that the America FREEDOM Act has passed, can't trust Skype or VoIP either, because those are all permitted to be dragnet vacuumed up now (FREEDOM for what? more government snooping it seems) and companies like Microsoft are protected from liability for letting the NSA scoop them up.

    4. Re:At least one thing that makes sense. by nine-times · · Score: 2

      Putting aside conspiracy theories I believe there are 2 reasons governments would want access to data.

      I'd argue that the real reason the government wants access is not some coherent conspiracy, but some relatively simple factors: People in the US were in a panic following 9/11.

      People were scared. When people are scared, they panic. When they panic, they make stupid, short-sighted decisions. Remember when people in Iowa were taping plastic sheeting over their windows for fear of a chemical/biological attack? Remember how silly that was?

      While the general populace were panicking, so were various public officials. They wanted to figure out how to make sure we were protected from terrorist attacks, and it was decided that we should do whatever it takes, even if it violated people's rights, and even if it was immoral. Even if it was stupid and didn't actually help, it didn't matter, because they wanted to do everything that it was possible to do. So they had the TSA searching your bags for nail clippers and liquid soap, and they had the NSA listening to your phone calls.

      And yes, for many people behind these decisions, I think that was the motivation. They actually wanted to protect the US from attack, and also knew that they'd be fired (or lose their reelection) if they were seen to be failing to do everything humanly possible to prevent another attack.

      In the mean time, lots of businesses made money from the ramped-up security, and those businesses are giving "campaign contributions" to the officials that decide whether to keep those programs. Plus, organizations like the NSA increase in power and prominence, and they'll use their influence to argue against rolling back such programs. There's also pressure from law enforcement, who have been using the intelligence for the prosecution of crimes unrelated to terrorism, and want to keep all the tools they can get. Even though it's a violation of people's rights, it doesn't seem so bad when you've been doing it for a decade. Aside from that, even if officials are in favor of ending these kinds of programs, it's still difficult politically because a lot of uninformed voters are going to see this as being "soft on terrorists".

      So all those things add up, and nobody has the political will to end anything. Very few people even have the balls to come out and say that these programs should be ended.

  2. Two Words: The Fappening by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Two Words: The Fappening
    Imagine Government has access to your private files LEGALLY, such that exposure of your files, your property, your life is completely unprotected by legislation?

    1. Re:Two Words: The Fappening by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      This is already the case?

    2. Re:Two Words: The Fappening by geekmux · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Two Words: The Fappening Imagine Government has access to your private files LEGALLY, such that exposure of your files, your property, your life is completely unprotected by legislation?

      Why do you speak of legalities as if that were a constraint around our government today?

      Let me be clear. They break the law. And there's not a fucking thing you can do about it.

      And no, it doesn't matter what puppet you vote into office.

  3. Something to hide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are you honest person? You have something to hide?

    Yes, every honest person has a lot to hide and it is called privacy! And it is important that everyone would value their privacy and encrypt everything just in sake of others rights for privacy!

    If some authority has problems, they are free to come to knock on my door or call me. I can talk on front door or in the phone.

    1. Re:Something to hide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am willing to argue that even criminal with evil intent have a right to privacy. The police's job is to catch them by doing hard work. Monitoring everyone thought and wait for a red flag is not police work.

    2. Re:Something to hide? by jcr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wouldn't say he was in the closet. He didn't make any announcements, but it was widely known around Apple and nobody cared.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    3. Re:Something to hide? by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      People always get it wrong. It's not privacy you want but anonymity.

      I want both. If Google puts ads into my browser based on my browsing history, and the computer is shared with my wife, what good is anonymity?

    4. Re:Something to hide? by sg_oneill · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't say he was in the closet. He didn't make any announcements, but it was widely known around Apple and nobody cared.

      I imagine he likely however would have taken his time before letting his folks know, which is usually a big reason people stay in the closet. Many "in the closet" folks are out to their friends and workmates, but hide it from their parents , who might be religious or bigoted or whatever. Whatever the case is privacy is *very* important to people who are gay or transgendered or whatever.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    5. Re:Something to hide? by Noah+Haders · · Score: 2

      good to know that you're such a perv that for you private == porn. what if you're searching for information on mental disease? or divorce? there's all sorts of things that people want to keep private, either from family members or from work.

    6. Re:Something to hide? by Noah+Haders · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ok, what if you're thinking of coming out gay or trans? or what if you are a woman and looking for domestic abuse shelters? there are so many valid reasons to protect your privacy.

    7. Re:Something to hide? by IsThisNickTaken · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What if you're searching for a birthday gift for your wife, or planning a surprise getaway for your anniversary, etc.?

      Yes, I know about I the incognito modes, running browsers in a VM and resetting the VM, etc. I was just pointing out legitimate things that you would want to hide from your spouse and that your spouse would most likely be glad to not find out about (depending on how they felt about surprises...) :)

    8. Re:Something to hide? by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2

      Let's spell it all out. I'm sure this isn't comprehensive:
      - I want personal issues related to my family (medical, mental, social, sexual, etc.) hidden. No one needs to know that, frequently even I do not, but families overshare and it should be safe to do so.
      - I want my finances secret. The government already knows how much I make, my employer and investment banks already helpfully report this and withhold taxes. But that does not mean it should be casually available to anyone who wants to go look. It is not anyone else's business, and worse, can be used to hurt me or my family.
      - I want my choices to be secret. I am protected by the Bill of Rights against self-incrimination, I would not voluntarily admit to any crime I committed if I knew they were watching nor am I obligated to do so. I should not be in a position to accidentally "confess" particularly to a crime no one is investigating. I may not have known what I did was a crime, and in fact no one may have been hurt, therefore there is no reason for the police to be involved. The government, however, has financial motive to collect fines. If say, I bought alcohol from on a Sunday morning in Texas, this is illegal. No one is hurt, but if the government were to spy, the purchaser would lose his liquor license and I'd be fined making the government money. In fact more people are hurt by the crime disclosure than by keeping it on the DL, but it's hardly 'dishonest'.
      - I want my private activities secret. Not all things I do are for everyone to know: I may be looking for a new job, I may have a mistress or five, I may be in the closet but the winter coats are a rockin', I may be working on the Next Big Thing and trying to get a business going but in a position where someone could snipe my idea and get a leg up on me (particularly if that someone were wealthier than I am, and not having to go seek funding), etc. There are tons of honest or quasi-honest reasons to want privacy.
      - I may be communicating privileged information to a client, patient or customer with the expectation or perhaps written guarantee of secrecy and have a significant contractual liability should that information get out. It should not be victim to the government (or private corps) prurient interests.
      - I may be in a position where I am about to acquire, legally, something incredibly valuable but until I have possession and/or have dispositioned it securely be vulnerable to dishonest people. Ex. Let's say I won the lottery, until such time as I can get the ticket notarized, successfully placed in the appropriate hands, there is a huge financial incentive for a thug to mug me of that ticket. I cannot do this without communication: i may need to make several parties aware of my position and arrange for security. A bad agent spying on me, who makes a normal wage at his poice force job would really like to get that ticket and already has the right combination of weapons, authority and disposition to steal it.
      - I may simply not want to be gossiped about, and have the elements of truth of that gossip come around and haunt me later. The less people know, the less interesting the gossip and the sooner it all ends.

  4. Re:Compared to guns... by Blaskowicz · · Score: 2

    I think guns should be strongly encrypted and acknowledge that I set the "do not shoot" bit on myself.

  5. Bad guys will use it anyway by SlovakWakko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Anybody who stands to lose more by having their (illegal) activities uncovered compared to being penalized for using (banned) encryption will still use it, so only the good guys, who don't use it to cover up their criminal activity will stop using encryption. At the same time they will be more exposed to data and identity theft, blackmail and illegal snooping. This just shows how little actually the FBI cares about the safety of common, law-abiding citizens. They don't see their mission as protecting people from becoming victims in the first place, but rather as catching criminals after the fact. It's logical if pretty evil - the more crime there is in USA, the more money and power the FBI gets. But folks - which one of those is better for us? Prevention or prosecution?

    1. Re:Bad guys will use it anyway by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But folks - which one of those is better for us? Prevention or prosecution?

      That's entirely the wrong question. The operant one is, "which one increases the power and wealth of the ruling class? (aka the politically-connected)".

      The "bad guys" won't use strong encryption under the proposed regime. The FCC will force the ISP's to install filters that only allow packets through that are co-signed to the government (y'all wanted Net Neutrality right?). If you try to pass unsigned data it will be blocked and a SWAT team will show up at your house to put a semi-automatic rifle barrel in your face and toss you in a cage for a decade or more. Tunnelling that data will be made a crime and the NSA has the technology to detect it already. You MAY not speak privately from the government.

      There is zero chance of countering this existential security threat while pretending that the ruling elite are interested in the benefit of the People. Security folks need to adult-up and face reality - we're past the point of this ending nicely; it's only a matter of which shit-sandwich we get to swallow at this point. Pixie dust and unicorn farts won't change that. Rand Paul won't be allowed to win the Presidency (but I repeat myself).

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  6. Surveillance or Security by Kirth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is an exclusive OR. Choose only one.

    "Either we build our communications infrastructure for surveillance, or we build it for security. Either everyone gets to spy, or no one gets to spy", as Bruce Schneier says.

    --
    "The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
  7. Re:Signs you are in trouble by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The advantage Apple has is that they don't rely on advertising for any significant part of their revenue. Which means people who buy their products are still customers, not products. That's a good thing.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  8. Re:FBI director by dcollins117 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But the director of the FBI, would must know what he is talking about, and must know that its just completely wrong.

    Of course he knows. He knows better than most people do. When he talks of breaking encryption, he's talking about weakening your encryption, not his. He's going continue to use the most robust tools at his disposal to protect his privacy. But he's the good guy, at least in his mind. You, he's not so sure about.

    In the end it doesn't matter what he wants. It's a foolish request that can't be implemented. The tools to communicate securely over unsecure channels are freely available to everyone at no cost. More importantly, we have the math. You can't outlaw math.

  9. Re:Sounds exactly like a pro-gun argument... by BlueStrat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Guns have strong offensive uses.

    Which are only effectively countered by people defending themselves with guns.

    God created Man. Sam Colt made them equal.

    Grandma (and the physically disabled, young women, etc) has a chance against a young, fit, male attacker if she has a gun. More than without a gun. Much more than blowing a "rape whistle" and peeing herself, or waiting for police who, in many small towns including the one I live in, typically wait at the donut shop until the shooting is over before arriving to take a report and have the body(s) removed. As one cop told me in a moment of frankness; "I ain't dodging gunfire for no $70k a year and a pension!"

    Police in the US have no legal obligation to protect citizens.

    Police handle the paperwork. Citizens are the true "first responders".

    Strat

    --
    Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  10. The logic behind encryption backdoors... by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 4, Insightful

    is the same is saying we should not allow people to lock their cars/houses because criminals might hide something behind a locked door.

    --
    A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
  11. There is no "right reason" for privacy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In order to distinguish "right" and "wrong" reasons for privacy, you'd need to look into the communication. Which abolishes privacy.

    The whole point of privacy is not to look into communication. In a way, not to let Schrödinger's cat out of the bag.

    "None of your business" does not distinguish good and bad business. So I don't really like the pitch of Cook here:

    Weakening encryption or taking it away harms good people who are using it for the right reason.

    Because it will be immediately followed up by "so let's only weaken encryption and take it away from people who are using it for the wrong reason." And then we get an oversight committee which decides about which reasons are right and wrong, erring on the "safe" side.

  12. Re:Signs you are in trouble by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

    Looks like someone at MoneyCNN has an axe to grind.

    There has never been any evidence, or any good reason to believe that anyone hacked into iCloud to get pictures of "celebrities". On the other hand, plenty of evidence that there were easy to guess username / password combinations. Plus, the article title is "Tim Cook didn't address Apple's real privacy problem", when the first statement it makes is that Apple actually _did_ address a problem.

  13. Re:How do you "take away" encryption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    You can't distributed signed binaries without having it signed by Apple's CA. Nope. Hence "signed" and "We verify these guys are not doing anything malicious, or we revoke this signature and tell the asshole to piss in the wind and keep the program from launching any more". It's a whopping $100 to go through that process too, mostly so they can establish your identity and proof your not some asshole submitting a thousand pieces of malware an hour in the hope that one or two get through because its completely free to do.

    If you're a programmer starting up your own business and can't afford the whopping $100 fee to get your program signed once the entire development cycle is done with, there are several easy workarounds. You can open the program holding down the option key while loading it, or going into preferences and telling it to ignore these checks to begin with. You can then run any code you want without ever seeing the warning again. It's really really hard to do. Its 4 mouse clicks. 4. Or you could not be a cheap ass and be willing to obtain the free developer kit and then $100 for the digital signature and identity verification/non malicious code checks.

    Quit frankly, if it's that easy for Tim Cook to fuck your ass, you better not ever go to prison, or you're going to be a world of hurt (literally and figuratively). Same if anyone in the real world ever calls you a bad name or something. Grow a damn spine, man and get real. Or stop posting bullshit. Or get a clue. or all of the above.

  14. Re: FBI director by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So using encryption properly is an offense in the UK.

  15. Re:Signs you are in trouble by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 2, Informative

    The advantage Apple has is that they don't rely on advertising for any significant part of their revenue.

    That's the theory Apple is peddling. It doesn't match up very well with reality though.

    Firstly, don't get me wrong, I love Tim Cook's stance. I love that Apple is pushing encryption. I don't want to see them stop. But Silicon Valley needs to move as one here, and this sort of competitive sniping isn't really helping.

    The only product Apple has that's actually end to end encrypted is iMessages. But WhatsApp is also encrypted in the same way, and that's owned by Facebook, which makes its money by advertising. So much for that theory.

    All the other cloud products Apple has work in exactly the same way as their competitors do: you upload unencrypted documents to Apple, who then store and process them for you. And this is a technological constraint, not a business model constraint. Keeping servers fully blind as to the data they're working with is an open field of academic research. It's not something that Google or Facebook or Twitter or DropBox or whoever are holding back from because they hate privacy. It's just a really hard problem.

    And finally Apple does of course have an advertising product. It has iAds. That has not been a successful product for them, but it's not for lack of trying.

    So when you actually examine the details of Apple's products, you see that they're not really any different to what their competitors are doing. Cook's statements sound good to the non-expert listener, but it's just marketing.

    What's more, there's a rather problematic assumption underlying Cook's position. Apple indeed makes most of its money from the extremely fat margins it makes from iPhone buyers, who consistently pay way over the odds for what they're getting. But it's only possible for Apple to subsidise its cloud offerings via fat hardware margins because Apple ignores the low end of the market. Indeed, given their attempts to destroy Android, it's fair to say Apple not only ignores the low end but would be quite happy if people too poor to buy an iPhone had no smartphone technology at all. Advertising as a business model may not be perfect but it's the reason that people in Africa can buy smartphones for $30 and use services like Google Maps, Search, Photos, etc. People who live outside affluent countries matter too.

  16. Re: Signs you are in trouble by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 4, Informative

    How is this a hard problem? The Spideroak cloud storage service does this; uploaded files are encrypted before they leave your machine. Even the file names are secret; the servers have zero knowledge of the file's name or type or contents.

    Services like SpiderOak sacrifice features people want, in order to get that. For instance, no search. No web preview or editing. Clunky sharing. No password recovery if you forget.

    Still, I was mostly thinking about other services. If you look at some of the features Google Photos has like being able to do text search for untagged photos using image recognition, there's no technical way to do that in a blind manner right now.

  17. Weak encryption = no encryption by sjbe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem with weakening encryption is that weaknesses do not care who uses them and once discovered they cannot be corrected. And weaknesses WILL be discovered sooner or later. Probably sooner. There is no way to only let the "good guys" in while keeping the "bad guys" out. You cannot weaken encryption without making it completely useless in the process.

  18. Security is a process - not a tool by sjbe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Grandma (and the physically disabled, young women, etc) has a chance against a young, fit, male attacker if she has a gun.

    Only if she has it out, loaded, safety off, is capable of pointing it in the right direction before the attack occurs and is aware of where the attack is coming from. It's an absurd hypothetical strawman that NEVER actually happens in the real world. Do you really want granny carrying a sidearm at all times given the extremely remote chance of her actually getting attacked outside of your imagination? Personally that's not a society I care to live in. Firearms have their time and place and I'm not remotely arguing against the 2nd amendment but they aren't what keeps crime in check. Guns are used FAR more often to facilitate crime than to prevent it. Real security comes from a properly structured civil society. Guns play a role but it should be a very minor one.

    As one cop told me in a moment of frankness; "I ain't dodging gunfire for no $70k a year and a pension!"

    The number of cops that EVER discharge their weapon intentionally in the line of duty is miniscule. It's significantly less than one percent. If your story is true then it shouldn't be surprising at all - almost all cops never have to "dodge gunfire" or shoot at a live person. However if he really wanted a safe job and a pension then he should have picked another line of work. There are easier and safer ways to make a decent living.

    Police in the US have no legal obligation to protect citizens.

    Police have a legal obligation to enforce the laws and guess what? The laws (usually) protect the citizens. (unless you are a minority - then you are apparently on your own judging by police response times) Countries with far stricter gun control laws somehow miraculously manage to have even better crime statistics than the US and FAR fewer deaths by firearm. Having a civil society isn't merely a result of everyone packing guns and having a Mexican standoff.

    Police handle the paperwork. Citizens are the true "first responders".

    What a bunch of delusional macho BS. When was the last time you actually saw someone grab a gun and go be a "first responder" to a crime? You haven't. The notion that you are going to protect society with a firearm isn't justified by the evidence. The evidence shows that the odds are FAR higher that the gun will be used in a suicide or result in an accident. I don't have a problem with people owning guns but let's not pretend that the citizenry are marching out to fight crime. If we get to that point I'm moving to someplace civilized.

    1. Re:Security is a process - not a tool by sjbe · · Score: 2

      For all your "It never happens!" crap there are daily documented cases.

      Show me the evidence. Cite me these "daily documented cases" of grandmothers and disabled people defending themselves with guns. Go ahead. I'll wait.

    2. Re:Security is a process - not a tool by david_thornley · · Score: 2

      These are all examples of home intruders, meaning that the defender was probably not wearing a gun at the time. It's also a situation in which you can identify a person as a threat quite easily. (You can also make mistakes; I believe the Darwin Awards site has a case of a man shooting his penis off thinking it was an intruder.) You don't have any example of carrying a weapon in public being useful.

      Also, you've got a few examples of gun owners successfully dealing with a home invasion. I can find a few examples of when having a gun in the home led to tragedy. To see how it balances out, we'd need a better statistical analysis.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    3. Re:Security is a process - not a tool by sl149q · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Its not that there are NO examples of civilians (even old ones) killing intruders with guns.

      Its just that there are MORE examples of civilians (accidentally or otherwise) killing non-intruders with guns.

  19. Re:Sorry to see you modded troll there by Ravaldy · · Score: 2

    Although I agree with the comment having been marked improperly by trolls, the statement that elected officials are not there to help us is too broad. Most elected officials get into politics to help people by enabling change. Unfortunately some lose their way and some are bound by promises made which end up casting a shadow over the work they accomplished.

    I have met a few people over the years that invested their own money (to avoid ties) with the objective of getting into municipal politics. I know of at least one that made it and did great things for his community.

    I'm sure that some elected officials aren't clean but there are many that are even if you don't agree with their view of the future for our society.

  20. Re:Signs you are in trouble by phantomfive · · Score: 2

    So when you actually examine the details of Apple's products, you see that they're not really any different to what their competitors are doing.

    Nah, if you work in ad-tech you'll see there's a difference between a company that relies on ads for revenue and one that doesn't.

    When an ad company wants to increase revenue, they ask, "how can we show more ads?" or maybe, "how can we increase inventory?"

    When a product company wants to increase revenue they say, "how can we get more people to use our product? or maybe, "what new product can we build that people will like?" The focus is still firmly on the customer.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  21. How to kill the US tech inudstry by Mike+Van+Pelt · · Score: 2

    The piece of this that hasn't gotten nearly enough attention is this: Requiring U.S. tech companies to put backdoors in encryption will make U.S. technology anathema in every other country on this planet. U.S. tech companies will lose virtually all of their non-US market immediately, and the rest of it as soon as alternatives become available. (Which they will; the demand will be huge.)