Slashdot Mirror
Making an AR-15 In the Wired San Francisco Office
An anonymous reader writes: Wired's writer Andy Greenberg writes about his experience fabricating an AR-15 lower receiver with the Ghost Gunner CNC mill. (That's the same device that was demoed in a Slashdot video earlier this year.) Greenberg points out that CNC millng isn't new, but reports nonetheless: "Aside from a single brief hardware hiccup, it worked remarkably well. In fact, the Ghost Gunner worked so well that it may signal a new era in the gun control debate, one where the barrier to legally building an untraceable, durable, and deadly semiautomatic rifle has reached an unprecedented low point in cost and skill."
I fail to see the problem here...
~The grand unifying truth is that the State's power to change us now exceeds our power to change the State.
Its not an assault rifle. Those have been banned nationwide since 1986, and controlled/registered nationwide since 1934.
Semi-auto rifles are legal in California, but the state heavily regulates cosmetic features for some reason(I guess to prevent feelzbad).
AR15's can be made legally with proper care two different ways. Heck even after NY tried to make them illegal, those ingenious gun owners came up with a way to make them fit within the law there.
Actually from a regulator perspective it is. That is the serialized part that is considered a "firearm" every other part is just a gun part and not a firearm and thus not regulated under the 1968 Gun Control Act.
The whole discussion about making your own guns, sort of reminds me of the day I realized how easy it was to make beer. So easy that any 14 year old can walk into any random supermarket and buy everything they need to make a couple gallons of beer for less than it costs to actually buy the beer (as it should be!).
So all these prohibitions against selling alcohol to people under 21 are all pretty pointless, even kids without friends older than 21 can get their hands on unlimited supplies of the stuff with just a little thought and effort.
So the latest hopla about making guns is sort of a resurgence of the zip gun culture. Only the results are probably more accurate on the whole.
When living in the PRC, it was surreal listening to the gun control side describe it words like "visually frightening" "looks harmful" and my favorite "accessories or attachments that give the appearance of..."
~The grand unifying truth is that the State's power to change us now exceeds our power to change the State.
You can make a damn effective single-shot shotgun with plumbing parts from the hardware store for about $12.
It is not an "assault rifle" if it does not feature "A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon." So depending on the grip that is attached to that lower, it is fine. Also, no flash suppressors, folding or telescoping stock, thumbhole stock, or grenande launchers. It also must not be a .50 BMG. The other option is to "permanently" attach a magazine that holds ten or fewer rounds of ammunition to the lower. If the rifle sticks within these parameters, then it is not an assault rifle.
There are plenty of guns in California that are based on the AR-15, AR-10, and AK-47 platforms that comply with the law.
Legally, it is.
Everything else is spare parts and can be bought/sold/traded without tracking or registration. The lower receiver is defined as the gun and is the part with the serial number.
The day the Stasi come to collect your registered guns, the only part you have to account for is the lower receiver. Everything else not present can be explained away as sold at a gun show, traded with friends, etc. Or perhaps it's buried out in the woods. So if people can make their own LR and dig up the hidden bits, the confiscators are royally screwed without a major change in firearms regulations.
Have gnu, will travel.
Home brewing was illegal from prohibition until Carter legalized it which is what started the U.S. micro brewing revolution.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
Kids want to get drunk now, not in a month.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
You are thinking of 'Assault weapon'. Assault rifle has a clear definition (select fire). Assault weapon means 'pee yourself scary' to those that coined the term.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
feature only? The only feature that possibly matters is select fire, which is already federally regulated.
More data, damnit!
No. Kids want to get drunk now _and_ in a month. I had a still and a fake ID at 16. Couldn't pass for 21 unless it was real dark. But back then we could get beer with an 18 ID.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Especially surreal when my wife learned to shoot same weapons in PRC at 12 years of age as part of the school curriculum, when around here we'd probably try to bring someone up on charges for doing that. Sometimes the gun control side sounds like the "abstinence only" education argument. Both seem to think lack of knowledge and superficial fixes will solve unrelated problems (i.e. sociopaths running amok).
So you have an aversion to a person enjoying firearms? Have you ever fired one? It's kinda enjoyable. The "sad sack" you refer to seems completely rational to me. He's just shooting a gun. You're the one being silly.
Ghost Gunner...may signal a new era in the gun control debate
Presumably he means a "new era" of debate in which gun-rights advocates are not resoundingly winning that debate. This week's news is that the Texas legislature approved campus carry and both houses of the Maine legislature approved constitutional carry. And those immediately followed the Federal Courts rollback of carry restrictions in DC. And last year Illinois legalized concealed carry.
I don't see how Andy Greenburg using a "Ghost Gunner" is going to reverse that trend.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
Dammit... I thought my case was impeccable until that IANAL statement: "But some random coward said so, he even linked the source, twice!"
Its a felony to buy a gun with a restraining order; its right there on the form 4473. People who say its incredibly easy to buy a gun usually aren't talking about doing it legally. In California there is a 10day wait even if you're a woman trying to get a gun to protect yourself from the ex you had to get a restraining order against.
Its not an assault rifle. Those have been banned nationwide since 1986, and controlled/registered nationwide since 1934.
You mean ownership of fully automatic weapons has been banned since 1986. Assault Rifle is essentially a made up term which can apply to what ever the government nitwits want it to apply to. It does not mean fully automatic weapon.
It all starts at 0
Its not an assault rifle. Those have been banned nationwide since 1986, and controlled/registered nationwide since 1934.
You mean ownership of fully automatic weapons has been banned since 1986. Assault Rifle is essentially a made up term which can apply to what ever the government nitwits want it to apply to. It does not mean fully automatic weapon.
DAM lack of edit. I mean ownership of fully automatic weapons BUILT after 1986 has been banned!. Nearly anyone can own a fully automatic weapon built before 1986.
It all starts at 0
The world is more safe now than at any time in its history. I'm not implying that guns are the reason, just informing you that you should take that bullshit somewhere else.
Look out ISIS!
I have a Ruger 10-22 and I'm coming for you with my Deadly Assault Rifle!
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Whoever thinks that making guns cheap and easy to fabricate without skills is a good idea, is nuts.
It doesn't matter if it's a good idea or a bad idea. It's the world we live in now.
It was probably not a good idea to let murderous dictators and their regimes know about the equation E=MC^2. We would definitely be better off if crazy people lacked the information to make nuclear weapons. But that's not even a question worth considering, because that information is already out there. We live in a world where the knowledge of how to make a nuclear weapon can be found on wikipedia.
There is no good way to keep bad people from owning cars, cell phones, computers, kitchen knives, baseball bats, etc. Now guns are in this category as well. It is just a fact that in the 21st century, making a precise replica of a simple physical object is no longer hard nor expensive. Arguing whether it should be is pointless.
Actually:
"Assault Weapon" is the term made-up by gun-control spin doctors.
"Assault Rifle" is a US military term for a fighting rifle in intermediate caliber (not pistol, not long action) capable of full-auto and/or burst fire.
AR-15 is (as you know) not an Assault Rifle.
M4 is an Assault Rifle.
They function differently, but to most folks, they appear exactly the same. This is how gun-control types inject fear, uncertainty and doubt into the debate.
The GCA banned the manufacture of transferable "machine guns" made after May '86.
The GCA, therefore reduces the supply-side of the equation for transferable full-autos. Transferable M-16s cost in excess of $10,000, plus the $200 excise tax to transfer them from one owner to the next.
An individual may legally own a full-auto capable weapon provided that they pass the strict NFA (National Firearms Act) requirements and that the weapon was made before May of '86.
IANAL etc
www.facebook.com/DareDefendOurRights
www.fairtax.org
For some rifles, such as the AR-15, the serialized part is the lower receiver.
For other rifles, such as the SCAR 16 and SCAR17S, the serialized part is the upper receiver.
On a Ruger Mark series pistol, the barrel is the serialized part.
I don't think the author realized that this depends on the weapon.
www.facebook.com/DareDefendOurRights
www.fairtax.org
Don't know. But I'm pretty sure it's "known to the state of California to cause cancer."
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
The barrel is 1) the hardest part of a gun to make
Not really.
And now the problem becomes tracking a 'gun' made up of several serialized, traceable parts. Barrels need to be replaced due to wear or when a weapon is re-chambered for different rounds. I'll guarantee that, should a system be developed to track multiple gun parts, it will be brought down by a relatively small group of gun owners switching parts around and submitting the required paperwork frequently.
Or I'll just design a rifle and name it an AR'; DROP TABLE Barrels;--
Have gnu, will travel.
OK so they ban mills. I can make a mill from stepper motors and linear slides. Going to regulate those as well?
You ae missing the point. Libertarians (actually the agorist wing) is doing this because this is how your bring down the State. Just like the drugs are finally starting to be legalized only after it becomes obvious how tyrannical and unjust the drug war is.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
The whole thing about gun regulations over there is to regulate without actually regulating, because they have this constitutional amendment that everyone is so hot and bothered about.
What things like this mill does is reveal that the emperor has no clothes. A fact that everyone with a bit of interest in the subject knew, but kept mum about to maintain appearance.
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
No state requires a license to operate a motor vehicle
The license is only required to operate one on public roads.
Many states license people to possess firearms in public, and some states require a license to posses a firearm on private lands, unlike operating motor vehicles.
"You mean ownership of fully automatic weapons has been banned since 1986."
No, he doesn't even mean that, because it's not true. One can't purchase a new automatic rifle, but you can (subject to state law) buy and/or own one which was registered prior to FOPA in 1986.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Not entirely true. A judge needs to approve this. I tried getting a restraining order against someone that was sending me harrassing e-mails but since they didn't have a history of violence against me or act on the threat it was not approved.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
Assault weapon means 'pee yourself scary' to those that coined the term.
Sounds like they'd run from a .22 long barrel then. I grew up in Canada, and learned to shoot with a pellet rifle and .38 special as a kid almost 30 years ago. Now of course we've got all those laws about how 'guns r scarrrrryyyyyy' and all that. Never mind we can still get some pretty good guns up here, they just take forever.
If it's one thing I miss about living in the US, it's being able to head to a range just to shoot whenever you want. Up here, finding a open gun club is a pain in the ass where I live. I have to travel about 2.5 hours these days to go shooting.
Om, nomnomnom...
You can apparently make a 9mm submachine gun (albeit with unrifled barrel, so effective range is under 50m) with plumbing parts from the hardware store.
(We know that it's a real thing because the author of this book was imprisoned for actually making one after publishing it.)
because they hate us and want us to die. That is why they're flooding the streets with guns. 3D printers make it even faster and more effective. They are more effecting at making us constantly die. That is what this is about.
Yippeee! That means I can get the anti tank weapon I've always lusted for. Those SUVs don't stand a chance!
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Interestingly enough, none of the guns you linked to were selective fire (which is part of the definition of "assault rifle"). What they are is rifles that look evil, but are functionally identical to a Mini-14, which was on the EXEMPT list of the "assault weapon ban"....
Even more interesting is that they're all "peashooters". Sorry, .223 isn't really much of a rifle round. Not even legal for hunting deer most places. Unlike my .30-06 single shot....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
No, the NFA of '34 enacted the tax stamp for full auto, short barrel rifle/shotguns, destructive devices, and "any other weapon" weapons.
Funnily enough, when Mr Miller's case went to the SCOTUS, the government was planning on arguing that the 2nd protects arms as would be issued to the average infantryman - and at the time, that meant a bolt action ('03A3/A4) or Garand, so the full auto Thompson and sawed off shotgun Mr Miller was convicted of having weren't protected by the 2nd.
What is issued to the average infantry today? Select fire, short rifles (the M4 has a 14" barrel - 2" under what is legal for a civilian to own w/o the $200 tax stamp). Oh, and short shotguns for door breaching. And suppressors.
What is really funny is that in England, etc. where super strict gun laws exist, suppressors aren't regulated, and they are considered to be "required" to be polite and limit the noise. Here, they are considered "evil" and some states out right ban them and the Feds put a oppressive tax on 'em.
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
I take it that you think that it is possible to stop government abuse of power with automatic rifles? It ether escalates to national guard crackdowns, or it doesn't. In both cases, guns are useless. I believe it is more effective to vote and send hand-written letter to your congressman. You mistakenly believe that 30s-era technology in the hands of untrained civilians can stop modern army. *shrug*
When I was in high school, small town...4,000 population, middle of the country. If you saw a pickup truck in the school parking lot, including teachers, 99% of the time, there would be 1 or two guns in a gun rack, on the rear window. One being a shotgun the other being a rifle. Also, if it was hot outside, the windows would be down, if it was raining, the doors wouldn't be locked. Guys ran around with a skoal can in the hip pocket & a buck knife on their belt. Not one incident of "gun related crimes" EVER happened in schools. You had a beef with someone, you took it across the street AFTER school, duked it out for a while, declared someone the winner, someone the loser. Few days later you'd be hanging out in town having a beer with the same guy. Try that now, they'd toss you in jail and throw away the key. So, that begs the question...WHAT has changed? Perhaps single parent families, everyone living in a sub division with privacy fences, who have no idea who their neighbors are, schools/federal government removing any mention of God from every day life, the increase of violent video games, children growing up with a lack of respect for their elders, or anyone else. SOMETHING has changed since the days I attended high school in the 70's, and NOT for the better.
People want to make threats go away. That is easier than making one's self powerful enough to deal with the threat.
Gun control proponents think that taking guns away from other people will make them safer. In fact, it will just make them and their neighbors attractive targets. But logic is powerless against strong emotions like fear.
Painting gun control advocates as people who want to take all guns and melt them down is about as intelligent as claiming that gun owners are people who want it to be easy for criminal gangs to amass huge arsenals. There are differing levels of extremism on both sides. Just last week I went to the range and came across a guy trying to zero his 223. He had fired off around 30 cartridges by the time I got there and the barrel of his rifle was getting pretty hot. So this guy asks me if I can help him zero the gun. I attached a laser to the muzzle, set up a reflective target and told him to harmonise the crosshairs on his scope with the laser dot. He cranked the elevation knob a full revolution to bring the POI down before he had the thing centred on the laser spot, 5 rounds later we had the thing pretty well zeroed at 100m. Basically this guy had been overshooting the target by huge a margin. Fortunately for the general public our shooting range is situated in such a way that there is a big old hill at the end of it precisely because of people like this. I have, however, come across people zeroing or just shooting their rifles outside of shooting ranges and paying no attention to having a proper backstop or that rounds might ricochet off the ground and go flying god knows how far into the hinterland. Both I and other serious shooters at our range regularly find ourselves educating a new haul of newly minted gung-ho shooters who swing rifles around on the range with magazines in place and the bots locked in the range safety rules only to have snotty comments thrown in our faces. I'm in favour of a certain level of gun control because while many gun owners know what they are doing and shooting clubs do good work educating shooters, the ease with which guns can be obtained has also resulted in the firearms community being full of compete morons who do not know how to properly operate a firearm. These people, have no respect for firearms and they seem to think guns are toys. To me gun control means first and foremost that nobody should be allowed to own a gun without having been taught how to use it properly and safely. It mystifies me that so many gun owners are against at least making sure that new gun owners are made to learn to shoot before being allowed to own guns so as to reduce the number of clueless idiots who make serious shooters look bad to an absolute minimum. It's a bit like fighting tooth and nail to allow people to buy cars and drive them without having ever learned how or what the traffic rules are.
1) "Assault rifles" are not a thing.
'Assault rifle' has a specific definition -- a selective-fire weapon firing an intermediate cartridge (i.e., between a pistol round and a battle rifle round) that uses a detachable magazine and has an effective range of at least 300m; from Jane's Gun Recognition Guide, the U.S. Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachine gun and rifle cartridges". You are correct, though, that the media construct of 'assault weapon', which is widely bantered about and explicitly named in various gun-ban legislation, is a vague entity whose definition basically boils down to "any shoulder arm that incorporates one or more cosmetic features of a military assault rifle, thereby rendering it irredeemably evil", and such weapons, from the characteristics ascribed to them by the more radical hoplophobes, have a corrupting effect whose magnitude exceeds that ascribed to marijuana in the movie Reefer Madness. The two terms, however, often get used interchangeably by individuals whose interest in firearms is confined to prying them out of everyone else's hands based on the prejudgement that an individual in possession of a firearm will use it illegally.
Just to clarify, making a gun is legal in the US, for anyone legally able to possess one.
Provided that the gun in question is not automatic. Automatic means either that specially trained ATF technicians are able to coax it into firing more than once with a single pull of the trigger, or that it uses an open breech design.
Open breech means that the gun rests with the bolt back. Pulling the trigger releases the bolt to move forward into battery, where the gun fires. Special parts are needed to cause the gun to stop after a single shot, and the easy removal of those parts makes the gun automatic, even if those parts are present.
By contrast, in a closed breech gun, the trigger releases a firing pin or striker, starting the cycle. Special parts are needed to prevent the gun from firing again until the bolt returns to battery. Removal of those parts turns it into a nightmare machine, unable to reliably contain the pressure of the burning propellant.
But a closed breech allows a disconnect in the action, requiring that the trigger release for each cycle. Without those parts, or with worn parts, the gun is an automatic. With those parts, it is semi-automatic, or self-loading. Or, a lever allows the user to select between the two, making a select-fire gun.
To summarize:
Open breech = automatic (by decree)
Closed breech, disconnector = semi-automatic
Closed breech, no disconnector, or selectable disconnect = automatic.
Private ownership of automatics requires special licensing of the owner, and a special tax stamp paid on the gun. Those stamps have not been issued since 1986, but owner licenses are available.
An ordinary person can also get licensed to manufacture automatics, but because the ATF won't issue a stamp for their product, they can't make an automatic for personal use. They can only use that license only to make guns for entities that do not require NFA stamped guns, which basically means military and law enforcement.
Or, a person can get licensed to possess an automatic, and purchase a pre-1986 stamped gun. (Note that conversion devices like the Lightning like and the Drop-In Auto Sear [DIAS] count as guns here, as far as the law is concerned, even though they aren't guns.) Expect to spend about $10k getting started in this hobby.
Luty's SMG is an open breech design. Don't even think about building one. But the book is a good read. It will help you understand how the Taliban held off two global super-powers mostly using guns they made themselves. In caves. With hand tools.
Note 1: Conversion of an AR-15-clone is simple. Drill one hole in the right place, drop in one part, one spring and one roll pin, potentially swap out a few other parts, depending on the exact design of your clone, and you are done. But drill that hole without proper authorization and you are looking a 10 year felony sentence.
Note 2: Since we are living in a post-Constitutional, post-Rule of Law era, any owner of a semi-automatic gun can be arrested and charged for NFA violations at any time. The ATF technicians have years of experience getting guns to double fire, and access to soft primers that will fire nearly unprovoked. They also have all the time in the world to tinker with your gun, and they get paid a salary to do it. They will get your gun to double fire at least once, and away you go.
See that "Preview" button?
Getting a gun license here in the Netherlands is fairly hard, you need a background check, an endorsement from a gun club, and issuing the actual license is up to the chief of police and can be refused on any ground; you don't have an automatic right to a license even if you meet the formal criteria.
But once you have it, life is good. The only valid reason here to own a firearm is sport and hunting, so there's no discussion about "good" or "bad" guns, and the criteria for guns are very simple: a few rules like no full auto, no folding stock, but other than that any gun is legal if it fits in one of the recognised sports disciplines. That means AR15s or AK47s, and none of that 6 round mag crap: you can get a 100 round drum if you really want one. On the other hand, I know someone who had to turn in his rifle, not because it was scary, but it was a weird Italian training carbine with an odd size and caliber, and it didn't fit any of the disciplines.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
By the 90's, the M-16s had removed the automatic level on the selector switch. The three options on the M-16A2, A3, and A4 are "SAFE," "SEMI" (one trigger pull = one shot) and BURST (one trigger pull = 3 shots.)
Show me a country where things got better after the peasants were no longer allowed to possess the means to defend themselves.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
Note that most military rifles (including the M16) are quite accurate. Or didn't you know that they were used at the National Matches at Camp Perry? Along with the M1 Garand, 1903A3 Springfield....
Note also that the "high firing rate" you speak of is pretty much the same firing rate a .22LR Ruger 10/22 has. Or a Winchester or Remington semiauto .22, for that matter. Or a 12 gauge semiauto shotgun (Browning, Winchester, Remington, many others). Or, for that matter, an M1 Garand, which has never been defined as an "assault weapon", but which couples that "high rate of fire" with a rather more powerful cartridge (.30-06) making it a FAR more deadly weapon....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"