Presidential Candidate Lincoln Chaffee Proposes That US Go Metric

New submitter Applehu Akbar writes: The good news is that for the first time in years, a candidate in the next presidential cycle has proposed completing our transition to the metric system. Though unfortunately it's Lincoln Chaffee, let's all hope that this long-standing nerd issue gets into the 2016 debate because of this. Warning: Lame CNN autoplaying video.

Comments

Meh

[maz2331]

It's a non-starter of a proposal from a non-starter of a candidate. There is no huge push in the US to go fully metric right now.

Re:Meh

[ArcadeMan]

You don't count (almost) all the other countries on the planet being metric as a huge push?

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a non-starter of a proposal from a non-starter of a candidate. There is no huge push in the US to go fully metric right now.

Never go full metric.

Re:Meh

[DrVxD]

Not in the US - since most of the inhabitants don't even realise there *are* other countries...

Re:Meh

[CrimsonAvenger]

No. I don't.

First off, it hardly matters to most people (American or foreign) whether we're metric or not.

Everything in the USA is sold with both SI and Imperial units (except shotgun ammo, of course, which as far as I know, is still sold in the rest of the world the same way it's always been - 12gauge, 16gauge, 20gauge), so it's not like the rest of the world is terribly handicapped figuring out US products, since they can look on the box.

Ditto foreign products sold here. Okay, it's metric. It'll generally have a line of print with Imperial measurements on it for the people who can't do the conversions in their head.

Only real difference is that the native SI stuff uses round numbers of SI units and odd amounts for the Imperial translations, while the native Imperial stuff has round numbers of Imperial units and odd amounts of SI units.

Face it, noone much cares whether the gas can for their lawnmower is 1 gallon (3.8L) or 4.0L, nor do they really much care which of those numbers is written in the fine print on the box....

Ditto for almost everything else....

Re:Meh

[cayenne8]

You don't count (almost) all the other countries on the planet being metric as a huge push?

No, not really.

The average American has very little to any interaction with anyone outside the US at all, much less one that would require much metric/imperial conversions.

It would cause more trouble than it's worth right now, a fiscal burden on an economy that is struggling still to get back on its feet.

I'd dare say if nothing else, there are MUCH more pressing issues that need to be addressed other than making everyone in the US have to go to their computer and do a conversion on the temperature being 30C to know how to dress to go outside after hearing it on the news in the morning.

Re:Meh

[CastrTroy]

Even in Metric countries like Canada, many people still use imperial units for a lot of things. Go to the lumber store and you can get a 2x4, and they are sold in 6, 8, 10, and 12 foot lengths. Plywood is sold in 4x4 foot sheets. Just about everybody I know refers to their weight in pounds and their height in feet and inches. Almost nobody can tell you the metric equivalent without a calculator. We order a pint of beer at the pub, and most people still refer to a block of butter as a "pound of butter". . British people still use "stone" to express their body weight, and they are supposed to be metric as well.

You can standardize all you want, and print whatever you want on the packaging, but people are still going to use whatever they are used to. You could have the US go metric tomorrow, but people will still use Imperial measurements for another century

Re:Meh

[Rei]

2x4s, of course, aren't 2" by 4". They're approximately 1,5 by 3,5 inches. As for lengths, here in Iceland it's sold in meters. We refer to our weights in kilograms and our heights in centimeters. Butter is sold in 500 gram bars. Cans and bottles of beer are in millilitres; I don't know what they call the size of a glass at a pub because I don't drink. Anyway, it's really hard to think of things we use imperial units on. The one that comes to mind is TVs, they're in inches. I'm sure there's others - they just don't come to mind at the moment.

The British are famously not-metric (they even use miles for distance), and Canada has a reputation for only being half switched over, so you picked two of the worst examples you could. I found this map which seems to be more detailed than a simple "metric: yes or no?", although I don't know what the color codes mean (red is clearly "effectively 100% metric").

And no, people will not "use whatever they are used to". They'll use what's on the package and all of the road signs. They're not going to pull out a calculator and start running conversions. You move to a metric country, you just get used to how things "feel". You don't need to know the conversion factor for miles to kilometers, you just get used to the fact that a kilometer is basically a "short mile" and the like. You get used to "0C = freezing, 10C = jacket weather / layers, 20C = light long sleeves, 30C = short sleeves" etc. You don't run conversions, you just get used to the norms.

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like most of the inhabitants of Europe don't understand that the USA is mind-boggingly huge and is only bordered by two countries.

Re:Meh

[nine-times]

I will also continue to argue that, while the metric system is great for math/science, it's actually not as good for some things in day-to-day life.

For example, measuring things in Kelvin may make a lot of sense in a lab, the Fahrenheit scale makes a lot of sense for measuring weather. In Fahrenheit, 0-100 degrees is roughly the range of temperatures that is habitable for people. And I know, it's not exactly the range of habitable temperature, but if there's a climate that spends a lot of time outside of that range, then people probably won't be very comfortable there. In Celcius, that translates into roughly -18 to 38, and Kelvin is 255 to 311. Those seem stupid and arbitrary by comparison. Also, if you measure only in 1 degree increments, Fahrenheit degrees are smaller and provide better resolution, though I suppose I can't tell the difference between 69 degrees and 70 degrees anyway.

But similarly, the length of feet and yards are pretty convenient for measuring spaces. Being a relatively average-sized man, my foot is about a foot long, for example. If I want to measure the size of a room, I can put one foot in front of the other and walk, counting my footsteps. In the end, I have a pretty good approximation. Measuring a person's height in feet also gives a range with pretty good resolution with adults typically being between 5 and 7 when you round. With meters, when you round, basically everyone is 2 meters tall.

I know some people won't quite get my point, or they'll say, "But metric is so much easier once you know it!" Really though, metric is only much easier when you're doing math. On a day to day level, most of us don't need to do enough math for it to matter.

Re:Meh

[Scyber]

Considering signs don't last forever and the 100 year timeline that was given, I don't think the cost would be prohibitive. You could just update the signs during their normal replacement cycle. I'd imagine it would be something like this:

Years 0-25: All signs replaced must print both measurements
Years 25-50: All signs replaced must print both measurements, both with equal representation.
Years 50-75: All signs replaced must print both measures, with the metric measurements featured.
Years 75+: All signs replaced must print Metric only.

I guess some signs will need to be larger to accomodate more info, but probably not a "considerable" amoutn more then the normal cost.

The biggest problem with this proposal is that any legislation like this would just get repealed when the "other" political party takes office. There is almost no way that this would last for 100 years.

Re:Meh

[IndustrialComplex]

Also, if you measure only in 1 degree increments, Fahrenheit degrees are smaller and provide better resolution, though I suppose I can't tell the difference between 69 degrees and 70 degrees anyway.

For me I like the precision when dealing with fevers. You have 6-7 degrees between healthy and ER.

Re:Meh

[ve3oat]

Ha! Yeah, well, Canada is just as huge and is only bordered by ONE country. And they use metric.

Re:Meh

[Etcetera]

I would also argue that the trivial benefits the imperial system has in being "good for some things in day to day life" are far outweighed by the inconvenience of every other country on the planet using a different measurement system.

Except it's not. Seriously, the average American is not inconvenienced in the slightest by using a different measurement system than "every other country on the planet." If you're constantly traveling internationally, sure, maybe. Or if you're in the import/export business. Otherwise there's essentially no drawback for the average US Citizen. And if your response to this is "Oh, well let's just make it inconvenient for Americans and then they'll *have* to change!" then you're what the average American hates about top-down social manipulation.

Judging from this thread, it's clear than non-Americans really don't understand much about Americans at all. Sure, they think they do... but they really don't.

Re:Meh

[amiga3D]

Well sure, there's England, Ireland, Scotland, Canada, and Australia.

Re:Meh

[printman]

Regular construction lumber is cut to size (2x4, 2x6, etc.) and then dried which removed substantial amounts of moisture, resulting in the (typical) 1.75 x 3.5" dimensions for a 2x4. What your father gets from the Amish is called "green wood" and has not been dried - over time it will dry out naturally and be the "expected" dimensions.

Dimensional lumber has exact dimensions (e.g. a 2x4 is actually 2" x 4") and is either cut to size after drying or cut large before drying so that the dried size is correct.

And then there are the "manufactured wood products" (plywood, hardboard, chipboard, MDF, project panels, etc.) which are sold using actual dimensions vs. pre-drying dimensions.

Re:Meh

[Yunzil]

Years 0-25: All signs replaced must print both measurements

We tried that once in the 70s. In some places people shot the signs down. Literally. With guns.

Re:Meh

[jedidiah]

You mean like US companies already produce products with metric measurements? The idea that the US is not metric is somewhat disengenuous. What the US is not is "forced metric".

US companies happily adapt to other countries (like in Europe) that make it a sort of fascist fetish.

But it's true that Americans simply don't care, and have no interest in change just for it's own sake.

Re:Meh

[Ghostworks]

I'm reminded of one time back in high school when we were discussing a poem by Margaret Atwood. The English teacher mentioned as an aside, "who knows where Margaret Atwood is from," thinking it would be a good segue. Silence. "I'll give you a hint: she's writing in her native language."

"American?"
- "No."
"British?"
- "No."
"Australian"
- "No." There was another pregnant silence and before I could hazard a guess on New Zealand, he gave up and said, "Canada! Margaret Atwood is perhaps the most famous Canadian poet!"

So help me, my thought at the time was actually, "Ohhh. Canada... they exist too."

The point of the story is, just because you speak English doesn't make it any more likely we'll remember that your country exists. Sorry, Canada. If it helps at all I'm in Texas, so you're not exactly foremost in our thoughts.

Re:Meh

[thegarbz]

For me I like the precision when dealing with fevers. You have 6-7 degrees between healthy and ER.

I enjoy blowing peoples minds: Have you heard of a decimal point?

I for one support this Candidate

[nucrash]

I don't know the stances of Lincoln on other issues, but trying to push the metric system is a great start and bound to fix the economy as soon as people can figure out how to measure things. Why can't one of the main stream candidates get this?

But 'Murica?!

[Moof123]

I am surprised the republican field has not proposed we get rid of the english system for Biblical set of measures in units of Palms, Spans, and Cubits.

First clue you aren't going to win

[SecurityGuy]

You're pushing an unimportant issue nobody cares about.

Really, with all the important issues that should occupy a president's attention, if this is even on your radar, you're not qualified for the job.

INSTANT PENIS ENLARGEMENT

[antiperimetaparalogo]

Go metric and your dicks will become about 2.5 times larger!!!

The Metric system has been standard since 1866

[CronoCloud]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...

And note that the US was one of the initial signatories of Metre Convention and that our "customary" units have been actually defined from Metric units since 1893. The problem being that the people have been rather slow to stop using the customary units and the government hasn't really done much to encourage a total switch.

Well except in the 70's, Carter got blamed for that even though it was Ford who signed the legislation. The Reagan administration that came after was full of nostalgia addled traditionalists including the president himself, so the encouragement ended.

My Car and Bike are Metric

[jfdavis668]

All the nuts and bolts in my car and bike are metric. The bike is made in the good old US of A. Everyone knows what a 2-liter soda is, why can't they figure out what a 2-liter bottle of milk is? We are partially converted. We use 35mm film (old people, at least) and 9mm ammo. Anyone who has been in the military has done everything in metric, it's not that difficult. It is hard to change everything. Even countries you changed decades ago still use old units. England and Ireland are full of examples of that. The most noticeable change will be road signs. It's not that hard to learn that 60 mph is 100 kph. We will have to watch out during the transition. A Canadian airliner ran out of fuel half way due to bad conversions from gallons/pounds to liter/kilograms during their changeover.

We can't have this!

[sycodon]

I'll resist this with every ounce of my being.
I'll resist this with every gram of my being.

I won't give an inch on this issue.
I won't give 5 centimeters on this issue.

They came at us with a shit ton of rockets and mortars!
They came at us with a shit kilogram of rockets and mortars!

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
An gram of prevention is worth a kilo of cure.

sigh

[argStyopa]

First, the US is officially metric.
The problem most non-Americans can't understand is that the US government/system ostensibly has few tools to compel this transition, CERTAINLY none that are worth political cost of using on an issue that most people don't give two shits about.
In short: the people who need/want metric use it.
The people who don't would strongly resist doing so.

Second: there's no "automatic" value inherent in the metric system. It's a SHIT TON easier to use with computers and calculators, certainly, as it's all decimal. But otherwise its less wieldy in daily use as 10 doesn't divide neatly by 3 or 4.
If your pro-metric argument is about the value of universalization, hell, we can't even agree that we should all speak ENGLISH in this country, and the 'universalization' value of that would be orders of magnitude more useful/immediate than all switching to a measuring system most of us don't use in the first place.

HAHA! 'Murkins are the DUMBF!

[Thud457]

Even going just partial metric can also lead to big problems.

Re:No one cares

[sverdlichenko]

In metric, one milliliter of water occupies one cubic centimeter, weighs one gram, and requires one calorie1 of energy to heat up by one degree centigrade — which is 1 percent of the difference between its freezing point and its boiling point. An amount of hydrogen weighing the same amount has exactly one mole of atoms in it. Whereas in the American system, the answer to ‘How much energy does it take to boil a room-temperature gallon of water?’ is ‘Go fuck yourself,’ because you can’t directly relate any of those quantities.

No big deal, right. Unless you want to actually calculate something.

Re:It's the economy, stupid

[halivar]

What school in the US teaches engineering in US Customary? I am doubtful of this anecdote.

Re:It's the economy, stupid

[HornWumpus]

What? My Engineering degree is 30 years old. We did almost everything in school in Metric.

After school it's industry specific. But all common metric parts are readily available.

Re:It's the economy, stupid

[danbert8]

Every civil engineering school there is? It gets worse when you go to surveying. Those guys use stupid units like "US Feet" which are ever so slightly different than "International Feet" but both of which are defined in terms of the Meter.

Re:No one cares

[Karmashock]

As to your dig on the American people, I could say the same thing for europeans leaving europe. The difference is that your countries are smaller. How many europeans leave europe? About as many Americans as leave the United States. So your presumption of superiority is comical.

You're not leaving the EU and we're not leaving the US.

There are huge cultural differences around the country. if you think we're all one simple nation then you don't know anything about us. there are states that have as much different between them as finland versus greece.

Go to Alaska... go to Callifornia... to go New Mexico... go to Maine... go to Wyoming... go to Massachusetts. Very different places. There is no one European country with as much diversity as the United States. So presuming your little countries are the equlivant of ours is just ignorance on your part.

And yes... I've been to Europe... many times.

As to what you think of our measurement system... okay, but why do we "care" what you think? See... here is something I think you missed in the last statement from me.

We don't care.

Your opinion on the issue - Meaningless.

I won't tell you how to design the plugs you use in your walls and you don't tell me what units to buy my beef in.

American beef is awesome by the way. I feel so bad for Europeans when it comes to meat. Your meat is so bad compared to ours.

Anyway... rage on, hater. We're happy with it the way it is... :)