Debian GNU/Linux 8.1 (Jessie) Officially Released

prisoninmate writes: The Debian Project has announced the immediate availability of the first maintenance release of Debian GNU/Linux 8 (Jessie). As expected, Debian GNU/Linux 8.1 comes with a new Linux kernel, version 3.16.7-ctk11, which fixes the well-known EXT4 data corruption issue caused by delayed and unwritten extents, blacklists queued TRIM on Samsung 850 Pro SSDs, adds support for XHCI on APM Mustang USB, and updates Crucial/Micron blacklist in libata.

Comments

Re:Don't care

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever goodwill anyone had for Debian, they pissed it away with systemd.

Re:Don't care

[jellomizer]

Debian is one of the few Linux distributions, that is trying to be a Linux distribution.
Other tend to try to copy Windows or OS X, and be Mr. Happy Friendly Desktop System.

I don't want Desktop Linux. I want a Workstation Linux. A system where I can do work on, not a system that is hiding where my actual stuff is.

If I want a Desktop system like Windows or OS X, I will use Windows or OS X... But I want a system that is uniquely Linux. And Debian is a set of a few Distributions that offer that.

They will care, probably sooner than they think

[FreeUser]

Let's not pretend everyone has issues with systemd. Plenty of people are totally ok with it.

Until they have to debug a boottime issue (which crops up quite frequently in production environments with systemd). Some overworked desktop/power-management developers and lazy devops folks have been seduced by the promises of systemd, but all it takes is one morning wasted tracking down boottime issues within binary logs and quirky systemd corner cases to make it clear just how bad an idea systemd has turned out to be.

Unfortunately, by then their strategy of subsuming other projects (sianara ntp, it was nice knowin' you), enforcing dependencies, making it more difficult to maintain alternatives (dropping support for biosdevname=0 for example) will have made it difficult if not impossible for those who wake up to switch to something that adheres to more sensible unix norms. I have used Linux since 1993, on my desktop since I could get X running with twm, and later through the gauntlet of enlightenment, gnome, KDE, e17 etc., but I fear this really is the beginning of the end for Linux as a viable alternative to anything. Unless of course Google steps up to the plate with a solid alternative (after all, they don't seem to use systemd in chrome OS). OpenRC is great, but with power management developers refusing the support anything other than systemd, it faces an uphill battle despite being a well established and in most ways a superior init system.

Perhaps the Debian Fork, Gentoo, Funtoo, Arch without Systemd, etc. will succeed in joining forces to maintain a sensible alternative or two. Because otherwise you might as well run OS X ... you get the same byzantine init and config crap, without the other hassles that in the past were worth it to run a clean Linux system, but certainly aren't with systemd in the mix.

Re:They will care, probably sooner than they think

[Endymion]

Being able to do a "journalctl -b -1 -p err" is so much better than faffing around with grep and regex.

That statement alone shows the core problem with the systemd evangelists: you don' t want to learn generic tools, and instead want to use single-purpose, monolithic[1] apps. A key distinction between the two this windows-style "fancy speciality apps" idea and the design goals of UNIX-like environments is that someone has already implemented the query you want to ask the computer to run.

It's great that you found a useful way to view your log data. Now try to query on something that journalctl didn't already implement for you. What kind of query? I don't - and that's the point. We can't predict the future, and new problems show up all the time. The point of what you call "faffing around with grep and regex" is that those tools are not difficult to use, and once you are familiar with the basics you now have a general tool you can apply to any unexpected situation.

syslog severity level "error" and above

I have never even remotely needed to filter events by syslog(3)'s "level" bits - it's not a very reliable filter, as app can be inconsistent in what LOG_* flag they use. Filtering on the facility (source) or time is far more useful. If you find that particular command to be useful, then great - which would be a good example of how use-cases can vary a *lot* depending on what you're doing.

try that with grep!

Listen, if you want lessons on how to use basic unix tools, there are many available on the web. For now, what you're obviously missing is that you would use sed for range filtering, not grep. do the line-range filtering. You simply use two regex in the form sed -n '/start_line_pattern/,/end_line_pattern/ p'.

Then, once you have a useful query built with the standard tools, you save it in a 2 line shells script. Seriously, do you think we actually type this stuff out verbosely every time we want to search a logfile? Have you evne *used* a CLI? This is n00b level stuff.

how can systemd ever make it harder for non-systemd distros

If you're going to accuse someone of being misinformed, it's a good idea to actually know what you're talking about. To name the most obvious example, it is absolutely insane to have any specific application (server daemons included) depend on any particular "init system"2. Yet systemd promoted the idea of using sd_notify which created a link-time dependency. Yes, such things can be compiled out, but that misses the point. Introducing a binary, link-time dependency like this has the de facto effect of forcing distros to make an all-or-nothing choice about including systemd.

It is true that this is not entirely systemd's fault - the app/sever authors are also to blame for going along with this crap. That doesn't excuse all the social pressure Poettering's cabal put on a lot of projects.

1before anybody trolls with the usual response that systemd is not monolithic - probably by mentioning the number of binaries it compiles into - you should know that those claims will only prove you haven't actually understood what we mean when we say "monolithic"

2 this is why it was always a lie to call the systemd takeover a debate about "init systems", as systemd was never just an "init system", but also many other things as well, mostly inseperable by design

Re:They will care, probably sooner than they think

[Endymion]

Even this is something journald does so much better than syslog

You are cherry-picking the one thing that isn't logged by most syslog daemons by default,, in a disingenious attempt to show that syslog is "worse", even though it is off by default because it is of little use. If we cared AT ALL to have the "log level" information, it would be logged.

The discussions of the many limitations of syslog,

Fine. Then solve the problem where it should be solved, and add this to /etc/syslog. You systemd apparatchik like editing non-script-based config files, right?

# probably already in the config
source src { system(); internal(); }

# here's your damn filter
filter f_err_only { level( "error"}; };

# pre-filtered log output
destination err_only_log { file("/var/log/err_only_messages"); };

# link the filter to a destination
log { source(src); filter(f_err_only); destination(err_only_log); };

Now you can read those messages only using "less". You DID know that syslog has very flexible log routing and filtering capabilities, right?

claiming that regular expressions are easy is laughable.

If regex is too hard, you might as well give up now. Regex is only hard if you abuse it badly, which is true for any programming language. This is just trolling at this point.

Oh, and thanks for admitting you are an inexperience n00b. You may have been using linux since the early slackware days, but didn't seem to learn much.

As for your "challenge", I have yet to see any systemd apparatchik rise to the challenge to prove that systemd isn't an unmaintainable monolithic mess, by showing how to replace (NOT CHAIN) journald with syslog-ng or indeed run any of the systemd components in isolation.

Re:Don't care

[Anonymous Coward]

Debian is one of the few Linux distributions, that is trying to be a Linux distribution.
Other tend to try to copy Windows or OS X, and be Mr. Happy Friendly Desktop System.

I don't want Desktop Linux. I want a Workstation Linux. A system where I can do work on, not a system that is hiding where my actual stuff is.

If I want a Desktop system like Windows or OS X, I will use Windows or OS X... But I want a system that is uniquely Linux. And Debian is a set of a few Distributions that offer that.

Debian can be a nice server, but i don't like using such old software on the desktop. Gentoo + OpenRC here, fuck systemd. If the rest of you enjoy having something shoved down your throats for political purposes (the surest sign being: it was not at your own request) then you can grab your ankles. To each their own right? Me, I decide what's on my systems. The little bit of extra effort more than pays off.

Re:Don't care

[Anonymous Coward]

Debian now enables "svchost.exe" by default now. Sounds like copying Windows to me.

Re: Don't care

[Anonymous Coward]

Systemd was just the icing on the cake for debian. Everytime I apt-get something I have to set aside time to google what kinda present debian left for me that broke.