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How American Students Can Get a University Degree For Free In Germany

HughPickens.com writes: BBC reports that Germany has abandoned tuition fees altogether for German and international students alike and more than 4,600 US students are fully enrolled at Germany universities, an increase of 20% over three years. "When I found out that just like Germans I'm studying for free, it was sort of mind blowing," says Katherine Burlingame who decided to get her Master's degree at a university in the East German town of Cottbus. "I realized how easy the admission process was and how there was no tuition fee. This was a wow moment for me." When Katherine came to Germany in 2012 she spoke two words of German: 'hallo' and 'danke'. She arrived in an East German town which had, since the 1950s, taught the majority of its residents Russian rather than English. "At first I was just doing hand gestures and a lot of people had compassion because they saw that I was trying and that I cared." She did not need German, however, in her Master's program, which was filled with students from 50 different countries but taught entirely in English. In fact, German universities have drastically increased all-English classes to more than 1,150 programs across many fields.

So how can Germany afford to educate foreign students for free? Think about it this way: it's a global game of collecting talent. All of these students are the trading cards, and the collectors are countries. If a country collects more talent, they'll have an influx of new ideas, new businesses and a better economy. For a society with a demographic problem — a growing retired population and fewer young people entering college and the workforce — qualified immigration is seen as a resolution to the problem as research shows that 50% of foreign students stay in Germany. "Keeping international students who have studied in the country is the ideal way of immigration," says Sebastian Fohrbeck."They have the needed certificates, they don't have a language problem at the end of their stay and they know the culture."

23 of 528 comments (clear)

  1. What's that you say? by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The cost of the education pales in comparison to the benefit to society, and the profits isn't always a good metric?

    I like your ideas, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:What's that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      US: Go to school and get buried in student loans only to have your job offshored and you're stuck with the loans until you die. Cannot get a job or underemployed where you have no chance of paying them off? Fuck you pay me - you entitled peon! You owe corporate America because of ... something!

      Germany: Go for free because business and government understand that they are all in it with you and what's good for you is good for them.

      Huh. How about that?

    2. Re:What's that you say? by Totenglocke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Free". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. They pay out the ass in taxes for that "free" education and over the course of their career, they'll pay more money than if they just took out loans and paid for it themselves. But sure, keep using the word "free" for things paid for via taxes.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    3. Re:What's that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your terrible argument assumes a simple "dollars out, dollars in" model.

      In theory, it's possible that educating everyone increases the wealth of everyone involved by an amount greater than the taxes paid out to cover education over the course of their working lifetime.

    4. Re:What's that you say? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Taxes in the US are quite similar to those in germany.

      You are just an idiot with "knowledge" that is minimum outdated for 2 decades ...and hence your "opinion" is not worth a single cent.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    5. Re:What's that you say? by nbauman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Free". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. They pay out the ass in taxes for that "free" education and over the course of their career, they'll pay more money than if they just took out loans and paid for it themselves. But sure, keep using the word "free" for things paid for via taxes.

      Yes, it is free.

      http://www.bbc.com/news/magazi...

      Research shows that the system is working, says Sebastian Fohrbeck of DAAD, and that 50% of foreign students stay in Germany.

      "Even if people don't pay tuition fees, if only 40% stay for five years and pay taxes we recover the cost for the tuition and for the study places so that works out well."

      It's free to the student because he didn't pay anything.

      It's free to the government because they got paid back from it more than they put in.

      It's free because when you invest money, and get more out of it than you put in, it's free.

      City College in New York City used to be free. CCNY turned out Nobel laureates and creators of industry like Andy Grove, founder of Intel. You can read the biographies on the Nobel prize web site of people who say that they never could have afforded to go to college if CCNY weren't free.

      CCNY was a meritocracy. You got in because you made the grade. That's different from a free market, where you get in because your father is rich (like George W. Bush).

      I don't think you know what the word "free" means. Most native speakers of English know what the word "free" means, because they are familiar with "free" education and "free" libraries, which is where a lot of them spent their childhood.

      I think there must be a script going around to search message boards for the text "free", and post a reply, "It's not free! They pay for it in taxes!"

      People in functioning democracies realize that there are some services that the government can provide more cheaply than the "free" market. Education is one of them. The market is always more expensive. You can pay $10,000 in taxes or $20,000 in the marketplace for a year of school. There is no developed country in the world that doesn't provide free education for its population.

      In the presidential election, Bernie Sanders is the one candidate who says that college should be free (as it is in Europe), and that students should be able to discharge their current loans. Sanders went to Brooklyn College, which was free at that time (and graduated a few Nobel laureates too).

      So if you want free college for yourself and your children, and you want to get rid of your college debts, vote for Bernie. If like Mitch Romney your father's rich, then vote for Hillary or the Repugnicans.

      It's also possible that your father is rich, but you want to see free college education for everyone because it's right, or because it's good for the country.

    6. Re:What's that you say? by bobbied · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So you are saying someone in Germany that goes to college will owe more because of higher taxes vs someone in the US that goes to college and owes back student loans plus pays taxes? Yeah, I don't think so.

      I've not run the numbers, but I believe you are not taking everything into account here. Yes, Germans pay much higher tax rates than we do in the USA and where paying back student loans my be onerous for the people who choose to take on more debt than they can expect to be able to repay, I believe that the extra tax burden for life in Germany far exceeds the costs or paying your own way. Of curse, it all depends on where you end up on the income scale, because Germany has a progressive taxation structure with nearly 19% VAT (think sales tax on every thing you buy, though it's sometime hidden from you), plus a top income tax rate of 45% with all the same property taxes and such you have in the USA. It's more, much more, for most upper middle class.

      So, sacrificing say 15% of your earnings for life sure seems like a bad trade for any reasonable amount of student loans. Using a community college for 2 years then 2 years at a state school would run you under 20K in tuition, books and fees (more like 15K). If you are careful, work summers, you should get though your STEM degree and into the work force with say $25K in debt (or less if you try or manage to get some scholarships/grants etc.) $25K is a whole lot less than 15% of your lifetime earnings...

      Let's say you manage to average 100K/year for 25 years of work, if the increase in taxes is even 5%, you will pay $125,000 for that "free" education. Of course you will pay more than $25K back on your loans, but again, if you just pay the 5% of your income, with starting salaries starting above $60K and quickly rising to $80K, you are going to pay back that loan at 3-4K/year and be done with the debt in 10 years or less.

      No, I'll pass on the "free" stuff..

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    7. Re:What's that you say? by nbauman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Germany has fewer college graduates. Is Sanders telling the less intelligent 2/3 that he is going to save them from student loans by refusing them admission to college, or is he just a bullshitter?

      Germany invests in a student's education, and gets that money paid back in taxes after 5 years (just like CCNY did). With that return on investment, any business would keep expanding.

      If Sanders got his way, anybody who was willing to put in the academic effort could go to college.

      Even if a kid only goes for 1 year and drops out, you've still increased his lifetime earnings and tax contributions. It's free money.

      Germany BTW has one of the best systems of trade schools in the world, so students can also choose vocational training if they prefer.

      That's the kind of vocational education system the US used to have before the Reagan Revolution. We did it before, we can do it again.

    8. Re:What's that you say? by rkww · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, I'll pass on the "free" stuff..

      You seem to have missed the entire point of this story - 'how American students can get a University degree for free.'

      Get a degree in Germany, move back to the USA (...if you still want to.)

      Comprende ?

    9. Re:What's that you say? by cyn1c77 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Free". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. They pay out the ass in taxes for that "free" education and over the course of their career, they'll pay more money than if they just took out loans and paid for it themselves. But sure, keep using the word "free" for things paid for via taxes.

      You know what else you get for all those taxes? A work/life balance, health care, retirement, and a lot of other benefits.

      Seriously, this excuse that Americans "save" money by paying for everything individually is crap. You pay federal taxes, state taxes, sales taxes (you have now taxed me three times for each dollar spent, thanks). I have to work out my tax liability myself, unlike the Germans, who get a government estimate. Then I pay for half of my health care premiums on top of that. Since Obamacare, premiums have gone up for me and coverage has gone down, so I pay more money for each non-wellcare doctor's visit. (And then taxes on top of that.) I get two weeks of vacation a year (which I will be unofficially penalized at work if I actually use all of it) and no paternity leave.

      Let's not forget the 401K that constitutes the entirety of my retirement savings, since pensions no longer exist for younger workers in the US. (They are even taking them away for older workers now!) I also have no paid retirement health care (a future financial concern for me), so that will be an out of pocket expense too. And, on top of all that, I have to pay for college out of pocket and save for my childrens' potential college costs (and who knows if they will even want to go).

      So, explain to me again how paying a 50% tax rate instead of a 25% tax rate saves me money in the long run. I still have to pay for the same things, but they are future expenses with unknown costs that will definitely be higher than an additional 25% of my tax rate.

    10. Re:What's that you say? by bobbied · · Score: 1, Insightful

      How's that? In the USA the top marginal tax rate is like 39.6%. You pay this rate for every dollar over $413K you make. At $100K you are going to pay a marginal rate of 28%, at $250K it jumps to 33%. In Germany literally EVERYBODY pays 42% (from 50K Euros which if poverty on up) and that jumps to the top marginal rate of 45% once you reach 250K Euros.

      If you assume that a euro is a dollar (not quite but close) then just about every upper middle class family is going to pay just about 15% more for the same income in Germany. Some less, some more.

      I live in a state with no income tax, we pay 8.25% in sales tax. Germans pay 18% VAT which works out to 10% increase over what I spend... Property taxes, fuel taxes are all similar...

      All this works out to AT LEAST 15% more tax liability for Germans over what I pay.... Sorry, but that's the truth.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    11. Re:What's that you say? by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Germany has fewer college graduates.

      Germany realizes that college isn't for everyone, and doesn't shit on people who go to a tech school instead.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:What's that you say? by grahamsz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But you are also suggesting that's just for education which is clearly untrue.

      I've never lived in Germany, but in Scotland you get a lot more for your income tax dollars than you do in the US. Of course if you happen to never get sick or never need welfare then the US is probably going to win overall, but it's hard to make that bet.

  2. Education by ajzimm3rman · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This simply isn't true. People come to the US all of the time, and get their education...then move back to their country of origin and work there. Sure, not Everyone moves out of the US after studying here...but they're not forced to. And the taxes you're paying for all that FWEE education come from the working residents of Germany, from whom you'll have to continue to pilfer to fund this Utopian solution.

    1. Re:Education by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And yet, Germany has the biggest economy in Europe, a massive trade surplus, and has a heavy focus on technology and manufacturing.

      Maybe the Germans have collectively decided that the cost of the education is trivial compared to the long term gains of keeping some highly educated people around, or having its own citizens be educated.

      Maybe, gasp, it's possible to both make profits and take care of your people -- and that it isn't an either/or proposition.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Education by JustNiz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Getting an education in the US is waay different to Germany.

      Firstly, education in the US is one of the most expensive in the world. So foreigners that study in the US generally are relatively rich (or from rich families) to start with, and paying A LOT more than it would cost them to live in their own country to be there.

      >> not Everyone moves out of the US after studying here...but they're not forced to.

      They pretty much are. To study in the US you need a student visa which expires after you graduate or flunk out. If you stay outside of that, without having an something like an H1B or a green card you're illegal. simple. And those are not so easy/quick to get.
      Also except for some very specific cases to do with training related to study, a student visa does not entitle you to work either.

    3. Re:Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why not all three?

      Who is really going to invade a country with nuclear arms? The US fights a war from 60 years ago while modern Germany "fights" on an economic and intellectual front. Good luck fighting this year's battles with 6 decades old thinking.

      Sorry to dismantle your three-way false logic.

    4. Re:Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe Germans would re-think that decision if they had to pay a realistic sum for their own civil defense rather than rely on the US and NATO.

      Oh I love how this argument always comes out when it comes to how one country manages to do something different compared to the US.
      For all the bullshit spewing about how the US "protects everyone else in the world and you would all be fucked without us", you folks certainly let Ukraine down.

    5. Re:Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Protect your People" That's rich. Since when is Germany facing a problem of not protecting their people? I don't see anyone even threatening to invade German territory.

      If you think that America spends all it spends on armaments because it wants to protect its people, then try to actually cut the funds for an arms system that is not necessary to protect the USA. You will find an army of lobbyists and politicians that will fight your tooth and nail to keep companies from removing jobs from their respective districts. The massive military we carry is about money.

  3. Re:and the beer is really good by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I love Germany, but I don't know of any German beers that are all that good. They certainly have the reputation but the reality has always been disappointing.

    I can accept your opinion IF you are from some of Germany's neighbor countries (e.g., Austria/Belgium/Czech - great beers!), or at least from Europe (e.g., i am from Greece, maybe the European country with the least "beer" tradition, but still we have a couple of decent large-scale production beers, plus, a dozen of good micro-brew beers), OR... you exclude from your good beer list any American (at least large-scale production - i can accept that some good micro-brew beers exist in USA... from German descendents!).

    --
    Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
  4. Re:Ob by ganjadude · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the funny thing is the people who complain about this (rightfully so) are the same ones that would call me a racist for saying learn english here in america

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  5. Re:and the beer is really good by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He meant actual beer, not the mass-marketed barley-water that passes for 'beer' here in the US.

    (then again, if you attend Portland State University, then kindly ignore what I just wrote, because you're pretty much good to go.)

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  6. got my masters in Germany by bkmoore · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I got my masters degree at the Technical University in Ilmenau. Ilmenau is a small university with very good reputation in central Germany. I did my degree and thesis in German, full immersion. Before that, I got my B.Sc. at the University of CA in Irvine (UCI). I had the GI bill and could have attended any U.S. public university tuition free. I went to Germany because I wanted to. Even without tuition, I still had to pay for living expenses, books, supplies, etc. and had a work permit so I could work part-time to make ends meet.

    Having experienced both systems, I would say that the academics were comparable. I think the choice of where to study depends on whom you want to meet and what kind of career you would like having afterwards. The U.S. is closer to a lot of the innovation in computer science, so if striking it rich at the next big thing in Silicon Valley is your ambition, you could probably get better contacts at an American University. Germany has a more traditional industrial economy, a lot like the U.S. was before about 1970. Germany designs, develops and makes a lot of their own stuff. Studying in Germany helped me gain a lot of invaluable contacts in the German "Mittelstand" or mid-sized industry. Germany is one of the few places that still combine product development and manufacturing under one roof and there are a lot of advantages to the 'old-school' way of doing business. It might not be as sleek as "designed in California, made in China" but it's the best way to ensure consistant quality, especially in more complex, safety-critical industries.