Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Ask Slashdot: Dealing With Service Providers When You're an IT Pro?

Posted by timothy on from the have-your-people-call-my-people dept.

New submitter username440 writes: So, a lot of us will have been here: You have a problem with your ISP, cable TV, cellphone whatever technology and you need to call the provider. Ugh. Foreign call centers, inane fault-finding flowcharts (yes, I have turned it off and on again) and all the other cruft that you have to wade through to get to someone with the knowledge to determine that YOU in fact also have a degree of knowledge and have a real problem.

Recently I had a problem with my ISP, where the ISP-provided "modem" — it's a router — would lock up at least 3 times per day. I had router logs, many hundreds of Google results for that model and release of hardware showing this as a common problem, and simply wanted the ISP to provide a new router (it's a managed device). I replaced the router with a spare Airport Extreme and the problems disappeared, to be replaced with a warning from the ISP that they could't access my managed device" and the connection is provided contingent to using THIER router. However my point was to prove that their router is at fault.

How do you fare when trying to get through to a service provider that they actually DO know something in the field? How do you cut through the frontline support bull*hit and talk to someone who knows what they are doing? Should there be a codeword for this scenario?

14 of 479 comments (clear)

  1. Codeword by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Shibboleet

    1. Re:Codeword by uksv29 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Shibboleet

      https://xkcd.com/806/

      Of course in the REAL WORLD you have to put up with the crap along with all the others :(

    2. Re:Codeword by Vokkyt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As funny and nice as this would be, the inevitable leak is precisely why no such thing exists.

      If the author is really in tech, they should know why trees exist and it's to keep Tier 1 questions from reaching Tier 2+ support. Programmers shouldn't be doing password resets. DBAs shouldn't be copy/pasting FAQs to users. Engineers shouldn't be telling people to "Turn it off/on" again, and so on. (Of course, if it's a small enough org there may be some "all hands on deck" events which occur that require everyone to field all questions).

      The problem with having an auto-escalation path is that it allows problems that never should have escalated to get escalated. Yes, you may have a fairly specific problem that requires a T3 tech, but the T1 doesn't know that, and the majority of [Company]'s customers don't know that either, but every single other customer think's their issue requires a T3 tech. The scripts and the tree exist to keep some order and structure going. Think about it this way - suppose you were a business customer who had a T3 question - do you really want your call being queued up behind someone who insists that Internet Explorer is the only way to get to their email? When I managed a first response desk, we had people calling in for the Sysadmin, Enterprise Manager, DBAs, Senior Devs, pretty much every upper-level employee, insisting that "Only they can solve this". Most of the time it turned out to be basic desktop troubleshooting or password resets or just basic "how to" questions.

      This is why a lot of the big businesses have empowered their T1 to basically send replacements without oversight. When I had Comcast briefly last year, I had a modem that seemed to be capping speeds. I waited out the script, and at the end of 20 minutes, there was a new modem sent to me via Next Day.

      The problem in the question does not require escalation; It doesn't need a tech higher than T1, and it's not a matter of the T1's not understanding. To me it seems like the author is just impatient; if I were to expand on that, I'd also suggest they think they're better than the T1 and as such deserve better treatment.

    3. Re:Codeword by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Of course in the REAL WORLD you have to put up with the crap along with all the others :(

      No. The real code word is a phrase:

      "Give me second level support."

      Usually it goes something like this:

      Support: "Hello, this is Ranjit/Deepak/Rakesh/George Washington at tech support. Can I get your name/account number please."
      Me: "Yes, my account is 12345. Can I get second level support, please?"
      Support: "Do you have a ticket or reference number?"
      Me: "No, but I'm a network engineer/software developer/I.T. professional, and I know everything you're going to ask me to try, I've already done. So, rather than waste both your time and mine, it'll be a lot easier if you just put me through to second level."
      Support: "Ok, I can do that. Hold please."

      Of course, be polite, and don't have a tone of voice that states you think the person you're talking to is an idiot. Smile while you talk. It really does affect how you come across, even over the phone.

      Only once, in however many dozen/hundreds of calls I've made to tech support, have I ever had this not work. The time it didn't, we went through the script, and at the end, this happened:

      Support: "I'll transfer you to second level support."
      Me: "So, if you'd just done as I asked in the first place, we both could have saved a bunch of time here, couldn't we?"
      Support: "Yes, I guess we could. Next time I'll do that."

      So, even the one time it didn't work, the first level support guy was educated that when somebody knows enough to ask for second level, they probably know enough to have done what the first level script says, too.

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    4. Re:Codeword by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Me: "So, if you'd just done as I asked in the first place, we both could have saved a bunch of time here, couldn't we?" Support: "Yes, I guess we could. Next time I'll do that."

      So, even the one time it didn't work, the first level support guy was educated that when somebody knows enough to ask for second level, they probably know enough to have done what the first level script says, too.

      The problem is that every second caller says the exact same thing, but not all of them actually do know what they are doing. You might be smart, and know the exact problem, but your line of reasoning doesn't account for the other 90% of people who think they're smart, but aren't.
      When I worked a service provider helpdesk years ago, this was the number 1 main cause of frustration. People who thought they knew it all but didn't. So you spend much longer on a call because the know-it all wants to skip the basics, even though they usually help isloate the fault.
      This is why the 1st level have a script, because there is simply no other reliable way of determining the quality of information from the other end of the phone at this price point.

  2. Faulty router? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When they complain about not being able to connect to their managed router suggest that it might be because it is faulty and perhaps they should try sending a replacement device. ðY

  3. How to cut through the frontline bs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Hi, I'd like to terminate my service."

  4. Get a business grade connection. by dhickman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have learned a long time ago that I must have a well working unrestricted and reliable internet connection. To get that you must pay for a business level account. This will usually mean that you talk to more qualified help desk members and even the engineers. Side benefits include static ips, no caps, Higher service priority, etc.

    It costs more, but as an IT pro, I consider it a fact of life.

    Currently I have a business level account account that I write off 100%. This is the middle tier that runs around 90 a month for 25 down and 5 up. I then have a second consumer grade line @ 120 down and 10 up ( with restricted ports) @ 75 a month. The access point and family crap is connected to that. I then have the consumer connection set up as a second wan on my pfsense firewall.

    Expensive, sure until I deduct the business connection as a business expense. This setup also allows me to test things like vpns,etc. This also means that I can experiment with stuff and do not hear the family complain because Netflix is not working.

  5. They have a script, let them follow it by Ulric · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First level support have a script which their employer tells them to follow. Let them do that or you derail the process.

  6. Re:Keep it simple by QuasiEvil · · Score: 5, Funny

    Honestly, as a last resort, it's not a bad idea. I have a fair amount of ESD test gear at work, including a bunch of static discharge guns and the like that can be dialed up to some crazy levels. I was once stuck in a situation much as you - they controlled the modem/router and it was crapping out every few hours, and they were the only game in town for non-dialup access (this was 15ish years ago). I'd already replaced it with a spare that did not have the issue, but since it wasn't provisioned, the only place I could go was their internal pages.

    I spent probably two hours going through L1 support, L2 support, and then had them tell me that "oh, sometimes the boxes just do that". So I took the box to work, fried the shit out of it, plugged it back in to let it power up and do real damage to itself now that half the fet gates were probably cooked, and then called them back to tell them that the box had finally crapped out and started smoking. They promptly sent me a new one, and told me "must have been lightning or some sort of power surge."

    Yup, a power surge indeed.

  7. Re:hit zero by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have actually worked in support. A phone call is the worst possible medium for resolving a technical issue. Either email or chat is far superior. So the reason you are treated like a moron when you phone in, is because you are a moron. Furthermore, since dealing with morons is unpleasant, only the dregs and newbies work the phone lines, and are quickly promoted to chat/email as soon as they display the least bit of competence. Nearly all companies offer chat as an option, since is both cheaper and more effective. So stop using the phone.

  8. Re:hit zero by kenai_alpenglow · · Score: 5, Funny

    Granted. But if your internet connection ain't working, it's kinda hard to chat/email...the ole "keyboard error, press F1 to continue" problem...

  9. Re:hit zero by CaptainJeff · · Score: 5, Informative

    That error message is no where near as dumb as most think it is.
    It exists for a very specific purpose
    http://alphahole.net/?p=1011
    Enjoy the story!

  10. technical solution by TheMeuge · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is a technical solution

    I have Verizon FiOS. They require their router for video on demand, program guide, etc. My solution -
    1. Force release DHCP on their router.
    2. Clone MAC on my pfsense box.
    3. Reacquire DHCP via pfsense
    4. Create a DMZ with a separate interface that hosts their router (without any connection to my internal network, but open access to the internet).
    5. Connect the DVR box to their router

    Everything works. Everyone is happy. Their router thinks it's doing the routing. The DVR box thinks their router is its bridge to the WAN and lets me use VoD.

    Took me a few days to figure it out