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Ask Slashdot: Dealing With Service Providers When You're an IT Pro?
New submitter username440 writes: So, a lot of us will have been here: You have a problem with your ISP, cable TV, cellphone whatever technology and you need to call the provider. Ugh. Foreign call centers, inane fault-finding flowcharts (yes, I have turned it off and on again) and all the other cruft that you have to wade through to get to someone with the knowledge to determine that YOU in fact also have a degree of knowledge and have a real problem.
Recently I had a problem with my ISP, where the ISP-provided "modem" — it's a router — would lock up at least 3 times per day. I had router logs, many hundreds of Google results for that model and release of hardware showing this as a common problem, and simply wanted the ISP to provide a new router (it's a managed device). I replaced the router with a spare Airport Extreme and the problems disappeared, to be replaced with a warning from the ISP that they could't access my managed device" and the connection is provided contingent to using THIER router. However my point was to prove that their router is at fault.
How do you fare when trying to get through to a service provider that they actually DO know something in the field? How do you cut through the frontline support bull*hit and talk to someone who knows what they are doing? Should there be a codeword for this scenario?
Recently I had a problem with my ISP, where the ISP-provided "modem" — it's a router — would lock up at least 3 times per day. I had router logs, many hundreds of Google results for that model and release of hardware showing this as a common problem, and simply wanted the ISP to provide a new router (it's a managed device). I replaced the router with a spare Airport Extreme and the problems disappeared, to be replaced with a warning from the ISP that they could't access my managed device" and the connection is provided contingent to using THIER router. However my point was to prove that their router is at fault.
How do you fare when trying to get through to a service provider that they actually DO know something in the field? How do you cut through the frontline support bull*hit and talk to someone who knows what they are doing? Should there be a codeword for this scenario?
Shibboleet
Just stay on the phone and complain until the problem is solved to your satisfaction, no matter how long it takes.
Just take it in. Speaking for Comcast, I know that I can take any equipment in at any time and get a replacement. Done.
I come here for the love
When they complain about not being able to connect to their managed router suggest that it might be because it is faulty and perhaps they should try sending a replacement device. ðY
Having been on the other end of that phone at varying times in my life (ranging from consumer tech support, to enterprise support) i try to be as patient and compliant as possible -- though if they are leading me on a goose chase I'll try to be subtle and point them in the proper direction.
Because face it, most people are assholes; especially when something they are paying for, isn't working.
They have to deal with assholes 8+ hours a day, every day, for a really shit wage. I can play nice for an hour or so on phone. =(
"Hi, I'd like to terminate my service."
If the first tier is not working for you, ask for the next level. If that fails, contact corporate customer service with details of your problem and how support has failed you, and what you need to have the problem fixed. I once contacted investors relations with a horrible tail of Microsoft support to Microsoft, and they called me back the next day with orders to fix all problems. Of course the tier 3 that called me was far better, than their outsourced support that tried to sell me pirated Windows key instead of activating a valid machine.
Yeah, you know what you're doing. Just like everyone else.
They're not going to magic you a new router over the phone. They'll mail you one and you mail the old one back. Just unplug it, call in, and tell them that it's still plugged in but doesn't power on anymore. Or get in the car and get a new router from the local office today.
The fact that this is a difficult problem for you should tell you a thing or two about whether you deserve special treatment.
I have learned a long time ago that I must have a well working unrestricted and reliable internet connection. To get that you must pay for a business level account. This will usually mean that you talk to more qualified help desk members and even the engineers. Side benefits include static ips, no caps, Higher service priority, etc.
It costs more, but as an IT pro, I consider it a fact of life.
Currently I have a business level account account that I write off 100%. This is the middle tier that runs around 90 a month for 25 down and 5 up. I then have a second consumer grade line @ 120 down and 10 up ( with restricted ports) @ 75 a month. The access point and family crap is connected to that. I then have the consumer connection set up as a second wan on my pfsense firewall.
Expensive, sure until I deduct the business connection as a business expense. This setup also allows me to test things like vpns,etc. This also means that I can experiment with stuff and do not hear the family complain because Netflix is not working.
https://xkcd.com/806/
do() || do_not();
2) actually wants to help you solve the problen
I believe you overestimate the dedication of a tech support drone at any level.
do() || do_not();
First level support have a script which their employer tells them to follow. Let them do that or you derail the process.
You have a serious problem, because you are trying to buck the system. The best solution is to pick an ISP that will listen to you and treat you with respect and intelligence. For most customers, who know very little about networking, that may mean the standard frontline support. But a good ISP will listen, recognize that you know what you are talking about, and talk to you at your level. After all, it's in their interest as well as yours.
Where are you located? I'm in England, and for some years I have used an ISP called fast.co.uk (Dark Group). Things very rarely go wrong - and when they do, it's usually the fault of BT, the wholesale provider. But when the problem lies in my setup or theirs, the tech support people are outstandingly helpful.
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
First, play along. Let the rep run down his flowchart sheet. If that fails, disconnect the device, call them and complain that your device can't connect and seems to be broken.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
In my (limited) experience, when I've had a significant tech problem, my goal is to work with the Tier 1 guy to run quickly through his/her troubleshooting script and to get a hand-off to Tier 2, more expert support. Sometimes that's the level that can authorize on-site repairs, changes to routing tables on their end, etc. The other option, particularly if this isn't a residential/consumer account, is to talk to the sales rep. A good sales rep (not always an oxymoron!) can sometimes open doors for you from the inside.
And for what it's worth: I've had the least expensive business grade service from Cox (Northern VA) for over 10 years, and generally have been very pleased with both the reliability of the service and the support when I have had problems. The only real issue I had was "left hand not talking to right hand" when the residential cable installer was unaware of the business internet connection, and disconnected it. The second time that happened, I ran after the guy's truck, demanded he call his office to confirm I had both services (on separate contracts) and then reconnect the line. That same installer came out on a subsequent call and remembered that incident. (I was a bit distraught, since I was getting ready to leave to go to my mother's house after she had a very nasty fall, and basically said, "I don't need to be dealing with this s**t right now!")
but clearly you are not a member of the Freetechnicians, a fraternal organization that traces its origins to secret academic groups in the early days of computer science. Only when you acquire the rank of Master Tech can you receive the mystical codeword that reveals your inner self and acquire the truth you seek. If you wish to become a member you must be invited by the Grand Poobah and acquire the necessary degrees to ascend to Master Tech.
May the Random Number Generator Smile Upon You!
For years I have been dealing with a certain cable provider for internet. I found that ask to have your service disconnected they will transfer you to a 'real' customer service rep.
love is just extroverted narcissism
(or whatever) as often as you need to get to a real person. tell him/her upfront what you have already tried, use some jargon. in my experience, tech support (at least here in austria) has gotten much better - the last few times, i've needed some, i got competent people who skipped the "have you tried turning it off an on again"-bullshit as soon as they realized the were talking to a tech savy person. also, at least with my isps, they have stopped using people that don't know shit and are just working down a list.
You mentioned that you have to have their managed modem. Time Warner has a similar requirement to have a modem that they support. In my case, I was able to buy a basic Motorola DOCCIS 3.0 modem at Target that was on Time Warner's compatibility list. It was less than $100.
Not only does the modem work better, I no longer pay the monthly rental fee.
Honestly, as a last resort, it's not a bad idea. I have a fair amount of ESD test gear at work, including a bunch of static discharge guns and the like that can be dialed up to some crazy levels. I was once stuck in a situation much as you - they controlled the modem/router and it was crapping out every few hours, and they were the only game in town for non-dialup access (this was 15ish years ago). I'd already replaced it with a spare that did not have the issue, but since it wasn't provisioned, the only place I could go was their internal pages.
I spent probably two hours going through L1 support, L2 support, and then had them tell me that "oh, sometimes the boxes just do that". So I took the box to work, fried the shit out of it, plugged it back in to let it power up and do real damage to itself now that half the fet gates were probably cooked, and then called them back to tell them that the box had finally crapped out and started smoking. They promptly sent me a new one, and told me "must have been lightning or some sort of power surge."
Yup, a power surge indeed.
Business account? In that case call their business support line and explain...
I despise Comcast for many reasons but in my experience (managing 30 locations on Comcast) they will replace equipment when asked to.
Keep in mind that the customer service person you get when you first call your cable company knows less than nothing. The have a script and some stock questions and answer, and they would likely get into trouble for deviating from those. Telling them that you know more than they do is likely to annoy them and slow down your progress.
I have found that the best way to deal with this is to actually go through all the trouble-shooting steps yourself that you know they'll put you through. For instance, you know how they tell you to reboot your computer and your router? And how they often don't want to stay on the line while you're doing that (or if you're using chat, you'll get disconnected)? If you can say, "I did that step already" to everything they come up with, you'll eventually reach the point in their script where they're SUPPOSED to escalate you to the next level.
This is painful, but there's no way around it. They're not supposed to escalate you immediately. If they did that, the second tier would get overwhelmed anyhow. So they're an important and necessary filter to deal with all the OTHER people calling in who are total morons who don't realize their router isn't plugged in.
It's like dealing with some doctors. If you know what's wrong with you, don't ask for the right drug. Find out what are the classic symptoms to tell them about so that they'll feel smart by writing you the right prescription.
That first-tier, untrained, script-reading, non-English-speaking person on the other end of the line got up at 5:00 pm to be ready to go to work at 8:00 pm (their time), so they can be available on the front lines all night long...and for a wage that is comparable, in their economy, to that of your local McDonald's counter clerk. Have some compassion, and they'll get you through that hellish first tier. Then, when that's exhausted, you've earned the right to ask for escalation to the "next level"...if they even HAVE one (it's usually a transfer back to the U.S. for those higher tiers of erstwhile "Technical Support").
When you're done, find ways to terminate your relationship--if possible (here in rural America, my sole ISP is AT need I say more?). When enough customers start leaving (as I did in leaving AT&T's phone service recently), you'll starting getting solicitous letters begging you to let them help you. Ignore them. These are corrupt corporations, more interested in executive compensation than customer satisfaction. Get used to that, too, because that's why corrupt politicians keep getting paid to write laws that favor those very corporations.
In other words, it's a crappy world out there and revolution appears to be the only way these retarded executives will ever get the message. Hard, but true.
Doesn't work. For the other person to realize you have some actual skills and isn't just an irate customer who wants this escalated into the stratosphere because you're so important, he'd have to have some skills of his own and he usually doesn't - that's why he's first line support in the first place. I won't even go into the laughable idea of a password since every temp worker would have to know it and will give it to every buddy who they owe a favor. Not to mention the many how have IT skills in one area and by hubris thinks they know everything else.
Document, document, document that you've been in contact with customer service several times without a satisfactory resolution, then try taking it up with them in writing. I'm sure you know IT is dividend into the ignorant who know nothing, the recklessly dangerous who know something and truly competent who know exactly what they're doing. Ripping out a managed router - which they probably had reasons to manage - and installing your own just puts you in the "loose cannon" category. They probably suspect that whatever the problem is, you've caused it yourself.
If you're not getting anywhere with a written technical complaint, I'd try a written legal complaint that they're not providing the service you're paying for. They're a castle and have built a moat on purpose since customer support is an expense. They do have people that are far more competent than you and have the power to solve your problem, they're just being shielded from your average support incident. It's more about finding the angle of attack that's productive, making a compelling case is the last 10% after spending 90% of your time trying to make the right person reads it.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Ask for a new one. Say you're not suing them for the soot in the apartment. Problem solved.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
The only reason I ever call tech support, is because sometimes it's required in order to return the product.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Just play dumb and go through their steps. Being likable, or at the very least not detestable, will usually get you to a resolution faster then being a dbag knowitall.
... like you're dealing with a toddler that you really like because it's yours or its mom is a total MILF or something. No, this is not ordinarily a good way to initiate a conversation with another human being, but in this case it's pretty effective. I've found that in the overwhelming majority of the cases I can get passed up a few levels very quickly.
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
While nigh impossible to get a good techy on the call support line, sometimes you do. And sometimes they listen.
When working on the 1 meg modem project, some of us had developer units. Internet goes down. Pattern of blinky LEDs on modem indicates that issue is with line card at other end.
Call tech support, ask them to reseat the line card. Get massive confusion on their end, as I've got access to better diagnostics then they do. And I know what their GUI looks like. And which alarm is active on it at the moment. Eventually, it sinks in with them, that they have someone who actually helped build the product they were supporting.
In the end, they did reseat the card, and my backup internet came back up.
My solution has been to dump cable for DSL. I look for the smallest, most local coop that I can. Typically end up paying 200% more fore a connection that's a fraction of cable' speed but at least it ends up being dedicated instead of shared. My main reason for doing this has been a positive experience in terms of the support being small and local. I can call in and get the same person on the phone each time. There's only one technician for my town and after I while we get to know each other, and they get to know that I know what I'm talking about and don't treat me like a rube.
At this point, I've given up trying to help with the problem. I've gone through all the research and diagnosis so many times, with no impact on the phone reps, it's beyond frustrating. I've also demanded to go to the next level of support umpteen jillion times and sometimes it works, but nearly every time, the time spent waiting and going through the problem with two levels of reps isn't worth it.
So at this point, I go through the phone charade.. err script... and make up responses ("Steady green light? No... I see a bright orange light flickering randomly!"), which totally puzzles the rep ("I haven't come across something like that before..."), which almost immediately starts the RMA process.
If the different companies had a way of filtering more tech adept customers, I'd be willing to help out (and I have been for a long time now), but if they aren't investing in that option, neither am I.
There are many code words... "please", "thank you", "yessir" and the name of the guy on the other end of the phone (take a moment to write it down).
One time, after being bumped up to the next level of support, the Charter representative told me I knew what I was talking about (I had correctly diagnosed the problem) and actually asked me if I wanted to work for them.
I told him thanks, but no thanks.
Just as a side note, if you're ever on the phone with an complete asshole, hang up and call right back. Most times you'll get a different person.
This is mandatory reading: http://macwhiz.com/blog/art-of...
I agree that phone support calls can be infuriating, but sometimes experienced tech guys go off on wild tangents and refuse to step through basic troubleshooting. A case in point: I had a customer recently who contacted me frustrated because some equipment was "broken." When I sent him a short and simple list of tasks to do, his response was, "did that yesterday, didn't work." In the next email, I asked him to check one parameter. He went off on me about "irrelevant mindless support scripts that just waste time" and refused to check, then demanded an RMA. In a subsequent email, he commented that he did actually get around to checking that parameter and "it wasn't activated" -- essentially confirming that he hadn't actually run the initial process, which would have set the "irrelevant" parameter on our hardware.
The RMA'd hardware was fine, although I had to endure several insulting emails from this imbecile claiming that "reputable" companies would have paid for return shipping costs for defective hardware.
The only solution to this problem would be to stand behind the customer while he diligently and correctly worked through a 90 second checklist to confirm that he was an idiot.
The DSLReports forums have special sections for some ISPs where you can talk directly to a senior tech. I was able to get a faulty router replaced super easily there, no phone call required.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
With those jobs, most of our callers have no clue what their talking about - so we won't believe you anyway.. Or the one the killed me was "My son/brother/neighbor's kid is in IT and he says ..." Even if that person really knows what they're doing, by the time it gets to your ears it's usually wrong.
It's very rare to get a caller who knows what they're talking about - so rare, that it's much more time efficient to ignore every caller's suggestions. Sorry, for the insult. Newbie techs who listen to their callers usually run down the wrong bunny trail and waste a lot of time and money.
My advice is to let them go through their motions and if it takes a long time - like you're without service for days - ask for some sort of compensation. Otherwise, you'll be bashing your head in and getting angry at the "idiocy". Drop their service if they refuse - customer retention may give you something.
And one last thing, I have been on the other end and thinking I knew better, the tech came out and solved the problem and showed how wrong I was. It was something I would never have thought of and it was so stupid, too. Arrrrrg!
What is with this stream of people recently that thinks they are 'pros' or 'experienced' asking questions that a new grad wouldn't ask?
Don't call yourself a pro and then ask a question about basic life that everyone else on the planet has found a way to cope with.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
"May I please speak to someone who speaks English as their native tongue?" Followed by, "I'm sorry but I have a hearing disability and it's real difficult for me to communicate with other than native speakers".
Not a gaurentee but this generally expedites a solution.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
I have a hard time believing you're an 'IT pro' if you didn't know enough to demand your issues be escalated to whatever they call their second-tier support, or at least speak to a supervisor. Also, if you're so unhappy with whoever it is that's providing your connectivity, then why aren't you looking for a different provider, one that doesn't require you to use their equipment, which again if you're an 'IT pro' I'm not sure how it is you can even tolerate not having control of the equipment in your own home?
You're paying them, not the other way around. You have some rights, you just have to not be timid about it. If you can't get reliable service from them for whatever reason that is not your fault you have a right to demand a remedy from them.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
In my limited experience with these things, I find that sending an email to support gets a better informed answer than talking to someone on the phone. It's less stressful too. Of course, if you're a "customer on fire", that may be too slow. ('Customer is on fire' was the expression used by one of the managers at a place where I worked for when a customer had an urgent problem.)
In theory, theory and practice are the same; in practice they're different. (Yogi Berra & A. Einstein)
... buy a commercial/business connection. Yes, it is more expensive. Yes, you get what you pay for, and nothing more.
If you're an IT pro, you'll appreciate the US-based support, static IP address, absence of blocked ports, and other services that typically come with business internet connections.
I just go through the call tree just like any unskilled end user. Their system is set up for that and it's faster than trying to escalate (everybody tries that). Once you exhaust their simple triage they'll usually replace the hardware. Don't forget that the front line support probably doesn't undertsand your problem and might in fact be doing front line support for many companies, so it only playing attention to the computer screen.
Extreme example: I had a weird hardware problem with a brand of well known laptops. Showed it to a friend who had worked on the board layout for that laptop -- he got super excited. Best way to get it to him? I went through front line support, including trying to bot it with various key combos held down etc: they verified it was broken and swapped it out -- and my friend was able to flag the S/N and get the machine for analysis. I didn't claim to know anything more than "it doesn't work" and as a result it was quick
BTW he claimed they changed the design as a result but how would I know?
connection is provided contingent to using THIER router.
Wait, is that even legal?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I have found myself in the same boat on many occasions, and not just on my own behalf but that of friends and relatives. Sometimes with patience a solution can be reached, threats often lead to dead ends while 'management advice' is sought. But if you have the knowledge and a sufficiently devious mind like me often the quickest way is to use social engineering to achieve your aims.
Now I am not promoting fraud or trying to get something out of them you rightly do not deserve. But if you do lead them to understand by judicious choice of words that in assisting you, either they themselves will gain something or that they will not loose something substantial then that is a good thing.
For those willing a good source of old school research are the two Autobiographical works of Kevin Mitnick.
What is this "competitor" thing that you speak of?
I've done this. TekSavvy customer in Canada and customer support is pretty much THE reason I stay with them. They do not employ script-monkeys overseas for their phone lines. They hire actual Canadians and don't use flowcharts when talking to a custom who gives high-level descriptions of the problem.
I have actually worked in support. A phone call is the worst possible medium for resolving a technical issue. Either email or chat is far superior. So the reason you are treated like a moron when you phone in, is because you are a moron. Furthermore, since dealing with morons is unpleasant, only the dregs and newbies work the phone lines, and are quickly promoted to chat/email as soon as they display the least bit of competence. Nearly all companies offer chat as an option, since is both cheaper and more effective. So stop using the phone.
Unfortunately you might get someone who feels you are in their kingdom and it doesn't matter what you say. For example my brother was having issues with his ISP connectivity. As a networking hardware engineer (his company built backbone T1 switches), he was able to determine that the problem was that the ISP assigned the same IP address to two different modems at the same time. The tech didn't want to believe him and insisted on "testing" his modem. After concluding his test, the tech said there was nothing wrong with his modem. To which my brother responded, "How could you possibly have tested the modem when I unplugged it 10 minutes ago?"
In a personal example, for some reason only my local NBC channel went out. I called the cable company to see what was the problem as it only affected my house. The tech looked up my plan and insisted the problem was that I hadn't paid for the all-digital package. My response was that it was the local channels which were not part of the digital package and that I had been getting the channel for years (after the digital switchover). He actually argued with me that this wasn't true. After 30 minutes of arguing with him l, I had enough and insisted on being passed to a higher tech. As soon as I described the problem to the Level 2 tech, he said that the local office may have changed the signal slightly and I should re-tune all the TVs which solved the problem.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
This is a problem EVERYWHERE. I have a business cable line with a small local ISP. I went back and forth fighting with them for TWO WEEKS because they were blocking various TCP/UDP ports. This is normal practice for residential customers (blocking SMTP for example), but is supposed to be open for business subscribers.
What did I do? I documented everything. Forwarded it to the CEO of the company. I found his contact details via LinkedIn. Needless to say, I was invited in to talk with him and a few others in person, and things were fixed super quick at this point. The reason they invited me in was for a job interview. Only problem is that they were offering crap hours for crap pay doing types of work I didn't want to do. (I'm done being a field technician for customers, I'd rather manage a data center or small campus at this point)
We had some guy who set up cacti to monitor his connection and he claimed he went down every evening around 6:00pm. We looked at our monitoring and sure enough every day his modem went off line around 6:00pm. The cable modem right next door to it never went offline. Sure enough on the day we showed up around 6 to look at what the possible problem could be we noticed the cleaning lady had unplugged the whole rack and had plugged in her vacuum cleaner. Then suddenly the 'pro' noticed that his router had a up time of less than twenty four hours. He didn't have any monitoring on that, just traffic. So I would say around 80% of the time when a 'pro' calls us with a problem, its not our problem.
Granted. But if your internet connection ain't working, it's kinda hard to chat/email...the ole "keyboard error, press F1 to continue" problem...
These ask slashdots are really getting fucking stupid.
YOU take control of the conversation. YOU tell them what YOU've done. When they ask you to do Y. YOU say I've done XYZ. Then, if they still dont listen. Ask for Level 2, or Billing so you can cancel. Guess what? Someone will listen then.
"Your call is very important to us. We have been experiencing unusually high call volumes lately. Your estimated wait time is 2 years, 37 minutes. Please stay on the line." music
The tech support script is there for one reason -- to let the higher-tier support staff who have actual problem solving skills work on actual problems without wasting their time on people who need just need to be told that the "any" key isn't literally a key. It does this by letting people of lesser ability handle the easy stuff and -- this is key -- letting the upper tier know that the easy stuff has already been checked.
"But I've already checked the easy stuff. It's plugged in, I have tcpdump output, I can prove that it's an actual problem!" Maybe, maybe not. Think of it as an input validation problem. A web server should never implicitly trust what the browser sends, right? It's poor practice to let the browser do all the input validation and blindly accept it. The script is the tech support input validation step. You say you're an advanced user who's tried everything easy, but how does tech support know that? Just like 90% of drivers think they're above average, 90% of geeks think they're above making stupid mistakes. The very fact that you're quibbling over the terminology of "modem" vs. "router" makes be believe that you're someone with an over-inflated sense of their own abilities.
Let them run through the script. It's tedious. It's frustrating. But it does tend to check the stupid "is it plugged in stuff" that even the most tech-savvy can sometimes forget. When they ask you to do stuff, actually do it. Don't just say, "Okay, I'm rebooting now" while you sit and play Cookie Clicker for five minutes pretending to do it because you "know" that's not the problem. You might get surprised and find that your problem isn't as exotic and unique as you thought it was, or that your list of "everything" to try doesn't really include everything.(*)
And if you do get to the end of the script without fixing it, the upper tier support person will have reasonable confidence that you do indeed have a non-trivial problem.
(*) Personal anecdote: My wife's laptop had a flaky USB port. After checking all the easy stuff I got on the phone with tech support. "Turn off the computer, remove the battery, and hold the power button down for 60 seconds." What? That's ridiculous! There's no way that'll fix it! But I did it anyway. Guess what? It started working, and has worked flawlessly since then.
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
"Tell me, Mr Anderson... What use is web chat when you are *unable to connect*"
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
Just fail step one of their flowchart.
Unhook the thing so they cant ping it.
"Hey Tech support? When I plug in my router no lights come on. I know the outlet works because I plug a lamp in there and it works"
Can't really trouble shoot past that. Send a new one.
After they put the order in hook your router and airport back up and wait for the replacement.
I have to return some videotapes...
As a customer and as an IT manager... I confirm 90% of help desk people do not know anything. And they are often openly hostile as you calling telling them the problem. Go figure. They also have strong instructions not to escalate the problem because there are to many morons out there. So the better strategy is to go through the motions, and describe quite well the symptoms, even exaggerating them if need be. If that solves the problem, it is easier. If you cannot solve the problem this way, an email describing everything in detail would be the next step. As for the ISP making/forcing you to use their own equipment to monitor, well install a bridge on front of it, and use your own. As an example at home I am using bridging home and providing my own setup. Last time I had problems with the cable line, I measured the signal, and knowing it was already out of working spec, I called them and told them the symptoms I knew they would be there. I knew I would have a lot of problems explaining why I knew the signals were out of sync, and furthermore explaining how I was supposed to measure them if the equipment is protected. At the end of the day they just called me in a couple of hours to mention the problem was further up in the distribution side, and they would fix it up without coming to my home.
Being put right through to second level wastes valuable time for that second level person that a first level person could have avoided. Simple collection of who are you, what is your IP, are you at your computer right now, what kind of connection do you have and what is the actual problem. First tier usually also has means of tying that information to the information we have about you, so that phase can be short and sweet like just mentioning a customer number, but more often it's not. Yes, most of the scripts are stupid, so I'd agree most of those can be skipped, not the data collection part though.
You may succeed in bullying first level into contacting second level directly, but with what I do at work (second and third level support) all I'd do was send you right back to first level to get that data collected. I can't help you unless I even have the slightest idea what your problem is, where you are, or if it's something stupid (like you canceled, believe me, it happens) and I don't intend to use part of my work time to provide first level support. So don't waste my time, or the only thing you accomplish is that we can see your "I want to speak to your manager" haircut through the phone.
Let me add that my "told you so" might hurt a bit more than a first level "Ah, so it works now? Great!" :)
PS: as for non-managed routers, there are reasons for us not doing that (being in a security-sensitive environment with non-computer-savvy customers is one), but I can't see why eg. Comcast isn't doing it. My home ISP gives me an ethernet port in the fiber box where I can connect any old box that speaks DHCP, so maybe I'm privileged. On the other hand I still don't get native IPv6 at home, so probably not :P
Stop buying consumer class when you ought to be paying for business class. You took the lower price. You got the lower service. Big surprise.
basically
Forehead MEET BRICK WALL
also buy a 12 pack( or 2 6pack) of GOOD bear before hand , you will NEED IT after
"I don't pitch OpenSUSE Linux to my friends, i let Microsoft do it for me
Been there; learned support people don't really appreciate being walked through packet dumps and such - the reply was among the lines of 'Have you tried turning it on and off again?', so after an hour or so I just gave up. So I unplugged the modem, called back: "Hey my internet doesn't work!' - 'Oh I can't see anything, can you try setting the modem?' 'Sure' 'Hmm still don't see anything, I suggest a new modem' and when I got one, the problem disappeared. This call only took 5 minutes... Bottom line: just follow their protocol and you'll be fine - I definitely check that the problem isn't at my side, and when I know it isn't, I'll just call their support and let them walk through their procedures. They aren't interested in technical analysis at all, so don't bother them with it.
Also turn off your antivirus software. Sometimes it gets in the way of the Internet.
</sarcasm>
I always hate when I have to deal with "technical support", well, with one odd exception: our accounting co. jobcost.com rocks, but I digress.
Today Comcast wins for dollars to speed (in this area). Fortunately my technical support contact with them has been minimal so far -- it's been working nicely actually (!?). Knock on wood.
I remember having a 768/384 DSL connection w/ at&t (then Ameritech here) -- and one day my PTP connection speed changed to 384/128. No reason or billing adjustment. Should have been 768/384 -- their tech support asked me if somebody else in the neighborhood god DSL and that's maybe why my speed "seems slower". Disconnect. Right there. They lost my telco / backup ISDN to VoIP that day too...
Be polite and in my experience I'm vetting how knowledgeable a person is that I'm talking to... Don't talk down to them, but be politely forceful in your request. They'll either "get it" or pass you up to someone who does.
Be prepared to DISCONNECT when necessary. I usually make that the second call once I realize I'm not "getting through" on the first one. Have secondary service setup and in place to mitigate disruptions.
Ugh. Technical support. I AM IT
Deal with it like everybody else.
This is the HAL-9000 approach.
"I would recommend that we put the unit back in operation and let it fail. It should then be a simple matter to track down the cause."
- just swear at the first agent.
At the ISP I used to work for, some years ago, swearing would have the agent pressing a button on the phone. This would save the recording of the call for later review by the owner of the company. Depending on what you would have said you'd get a letter warning you not to swear at the staff, a letter terminating your service, or, in the worst case, the owner would take the recording to the police-station and file a complaint against you. About half those complaints resulted in suspended sentences and hefty fines.
The average call center agent 'survives' the first line a few weeks before burning down. He averaged three years for his call center staff.
Playing dumb has been my personal strategy yet I have no reference to judge effectiveness against other strategies.
You are rarely helped by acting like a know-it-all. The goal I have found is not to help, inform or impress but to get the person on the other end of the line to just give a shit about helping you. Sometimes being stupid is better for you than having the clueless parts changer and "rebooter and chief" you talk to or they send out be offended when you go talking over their head or attempt to do their job for them. Sometimes if the tech they send out is not a total zombie they will see equipment racks and *ask* intelligent questions at which time it is safe to blab.
I intentionally lie about what I know, avoid argument and work hard to contain laughter especially during onsite visits. I will follow all even stupid instructions unless what I'm being told to do is outright destructive or wastes too much time.
Have also experienced the flip side of this first hand. Sometimes people who think they know something turn out in reality to know a lot less. I'm an Oracle without cookies in a couple niche domains where all who challenge me lose yet the same people keep coming back for more with the same hubris filled retorts undaunted and unaffected by previous lapses of understanding and judgment. What is particularly amusing and annoying are the guys who restate the original question thinking I must not have understood what they were asking in the first place. At all costs don't be this person.
That error message is no where near as dumb as most think it is.
It exists for a very specific purpose
http://alphahole.net/?p=1011
Enjoy the story!
Get a profession/business account. If you want to act like an IT pro, pay for the type of service that IT Pros get. You will get someone on the line who isn't an idiot. And, you will get service guarantees. Costs 20-100% more. But, if your sanity is important it is worth it. Most ISPs have a different division for professional accounts. EG, Verizon/Time-Warner both have business services. You want cheap service? You get cheap call center support.
Here's to losing my Karma Bonus again....
If you think you need porfoessional support, pay for it.
- http://www.milkme.co.uk
Telling them it "Smells like smoke", "It's hot enough to burn myself on" or since I used to work printer support "It's leaking ink/grease/something".
Will skip a lot of the BS and get you a replacement asap, since they don't want to deal with the legal fallout of it setting your house on fire (or staining a new couch) while troubleshooting. At one fruit themed computer call center we had a "Red Flag Word List" in which if a customer used any of the words, it got transferred immediately to Tier 2. They were all words like Smoke, fire, melting, sparks, swelling (batteries).
... people have walked in on me doing this with vendors:
Them: OK, now pry the back off and unseat the doohickey and re-tighten all screws.
Me: [Shake desk drawer] OK, done.
Them: What are the new indications?
Me: [On speakerphone getting work done] Same thing.
Them: [Eventually] Looks like the thing you told us about half an hour ago is defective. We will send you a new one.
Me: You're a genius.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Honestly, as a last resort, it's not a bad idea. I have a fair amount of ESD test gear at work, including a bunch of static discharge guns and the like that can be dialed up to some crazy levels. I was once stuck in a situation much as you - they controlled the modem/router and it was crapping out every few hours, and they were the only game in town for non-dialup access (this was 15ish years ago). I'd already replaced it with a spare that did not have the issue, but since it wasn't provisioned, the only place I could go was their internal pages.
I spent probably two hours going through L1 support, L2 support, and then had them tell me that "oh, sometimes the boxes just do that". So I took the box to work, fried the shit out of it, plugged it back in to let it power up and do real damage to itself now that half the fet gates were probably cooked, and then called them back to tell them that the box had finally crapped out and started smoking. They promptly sent me a new one, and told me "must have been lightning or some sort of power surge."
Yup, a power surge indeed.
Ha, been there. Interesting what a Tesla coil vacuum leak detector will do to some electronics.
When you call walk them through the process, list every thing you have tried and the results, When you get through ask them to escalate it.
As a 20 year IT Pro, I have on occasion found that I too have missed something simple that fixed the problem during this process. But normally I don't miss anything.
It also doesn't hurt that I have the direct phone number of the head network engineer for my ISP.
"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
You're an asshole. Now, could I have a discussion with someone more intelligent?
A client of mine consistently insisted on installing various "antivirus" packages such as Zonealarm or Panda Internet Security despite my warnings.
This invariably caused issues with various internet and network services he wished to use.
Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
Also turn off your antivirus software. Sometimes it gets in the way of the Internet.
</sarcasm>
Uhhhhh . . . I thought the same way you do. That's the only time I was wrong calling ISP tech support. I called to say that the new WiFi USB key (this was a few years ago) that I'd bought for my mother would get recognized, would connect and get DHCP but nothing more, so the problem was obviously on the router end. The first thing the tech asked was for me to turn off the antivirus. I fudged and said sure, ok... it's off... still doesn't work. The tech then quickly walked me through a series of lengthy MS-prefixed DOS-mode commands, and hey presto, no more problem. I asked what he'd done. He said he'd turned off my anti-virus. The driver for the big-name USB WiFi key wasn't signed, so Norton interfered with it. I told my Ma to buy another antivirus. The tech support was good (this was the guy who first picked up the phone), but sorry for most of you, it wasn't in the U.S. (it was French Orange). They'd got better since the day they told a friend of mine to restart Internet Explorer after he told them he'd diagnosed a failed route in their peering exchange.
And that is not the time when I installed a totally clean computer for my aunt who'd provided me with original CDs of Windows, Norton, et al., connected it to the Net, and the first popup was "Norton has detected that your system is trying to access the Internet, recommend Accept". I wondered what it could be, so I clicked for the details, and the packet in question was "incoming to port 135" from an IP somewhere in Africa.
I can tell you if you have CenturyLink and you get "call-a-me-Bob" when you call up, ask them to transfer you to the US staff. they do so, and you talk to nice folks in Boise who can shift off the script once they know you have done all the tier-zero stuff already.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
I got frustrated and four-lettered once with DEC, and they told me clean it up or they would disconnect. any outfit that has to be cuddly and always chirpy because of Federal contracts or equal rights regulations has the right to do the same.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
When you need to activate a new self-purchased cable modem with Comcast, you need to call them - there doesn't appear to be any other route to getting it working on their network.
#DeleteChrome
to hear the sirens and the SWAT team's bullhorns
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Hi, I'm an enraged customer, I'd like to speak to your escalations manager.
It helps to say that in the kindest possible tone, too.
"Escalation manager" is the normal term for someone who talks to "enraged customers". It may or may not be what your ISP uses, but the two phrases in the same sentence tend to get you to the right manager.
--dave
Did escalations for a while at Sun, some of the problems were real fun. Others weren't.
davecb@spamcop.net
the microwave will do nicely. it kills DTV pass cards in 5 seconds. kills CDs in 7. most modems are slightly shielded, give it 20, unless you hear a large CRACK! in which case, you also did the microwave. electronics make smaller pops and crackles.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
http://gethuman.com/ will often give you a decent number to get to an actual human in a lot of organizations. Biased to the US at the moment. The person on the AT&T number has actually asked in puzzlement 'how did you get this number?'. I have no connection with the site, but have had the occasional success with it.
I forget the name of the Supreme Court ruling, keep thinking it's Code-a-phone but that's not right...but that's the core of the "bring your own stuff" telecommunications industry. the Bell System didn't let you hook your stuff up to THEIR precious network. you had to lease (never buy, that was bad business) their terminations, whether they said Western Electric or something else on the nameplate. well, an answering machine outfit sued... persisted... and WON. in our area, primarily Comcast and CenturyLink (formerly Qwest formerly US West, formerly Northwestern Bell, a member of the Bell System) you can go to Best Buy or wherever, get your own CPE, and hook it up. you will need to have the credentials set, but there y'go.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
I understand several counties in the State of Imaginationland have such ordinances in effect.
For those of us who live in the actual USofA, there's no such worry.
The Three Laws of Telecoms:
1. They will Overpromise
2. They will Underdeliver
3. They will Overcharge
These have proven true over and over and over again year after year. Telecom providers, be it phone or data are the seedy underbelly of the IT industry.
Corporatism != Free Market
Make sure you get a receipt! It's no fun getting billed for gear you've returned!
And make sure if you buy your own gear that you get a receipt, both the one for your gear and from the ISP for whatever gear you turn in/don't get. I once had Comcast try to bill me for not returning a modem I had never rented.
To me it seems like the author is just impatient; if I were to expand on that, I'd also suggest they think they're better than the T1 and as such deserve better treatment.
Impatience does not imply you are better than the person who is wasting your time. It just implies that they're wasting your time.
It's broken already; you're technically savvy; you should know what to do. I wouldn't put 120 AC on the DC modem/router power in plug, but you know where I'm going; just end its suffering; it's already dying. Maybe a bad firmware flash, or whatever... figure it out, so there is no fireworks involved. Then get it replaced. Repeat if required. It may be a rather nefarious way of getting things done, but... the end in this case justifies the means. You'll be a happy camper, the ISP will get to keep their customer. Why in the first place you wouldn't have your own modem? DSL modems go for $30 - $40 recently. I've seen cable ones dropping in price too. Buy your own separate router when you're at it. Unless you're company does not allow external modems.
I had a job training software, and business applications for end users. Part of this involved one on one training with users that wanted to know how to perform specific tasks.
I remember going to one lady who wanted to know how to perform a specific task to get an outcome she was struggling with. I found the issue not to be her lack of knowledge, but some missing packages. As systems were locked down, I had to call in to the internal HelpDesk and raise a ticket to get the necessary packages installed on her machine.
Upon giving the exact details of what was missing and what would be needed I got the response "Can I pass you to my colleague who knows about computers?"
. .
Yep. You see there is this protocol known as snmp and you can use it to monitor the rf levels and the status of the ethernet and shucks all kinds of things. You should look it up.
Good luck putting it in bridge mode on the crap AT&T gives out. The last Motorola cheapo I looked at didn't have that capability, just DMZ.
There is a technical solution
I have Verizon FiOS. They require their router for video on demand, program guide, etc. My solution -
1. Force release DHCP on their router.
2. Clone MAC on my pfsense box.
3. Reacquire DHCP via pfsense
4. Create a DMZ with a separate interface that hosts their router (without any connection to my internal network, but open access to the internet).
5. Connect the DVR box to their router
Everything works. Everyone is happy. Their router thinks it's doing the routing. The DVR box thinks their router is its bridge to the WAN and lets me use VoD.
Took me a few days to figure it out
The first time an ISP told me I couldn't use my own equipment, I would drop them in about 5 seconds.
Intermittent faults are impossible to handle with flow-chart based level 1 support. The only way out I know it to make the problem permanent.
In the router case, make sure its power supply dies (I am sure you will figure smart ways to accomplish this),report the permanent problem, and you will have your router replaced.
I use an ISP with an Australia call centre, with call centre staff who actually have the latitude and training to recognise that I know what I'm talking about and go off-script.
And yes, I do pay a premium for that.
... anyone who identified themselves as such would cause me to reach for the kid gloves. Support level 0.
I have a lot luck going through the companies facebook page. For example, I had an problem where I was losing over 25% of my packets to their gateway. I posted this on their facebook page along with a screen shot. A few hours later a real technician contacted me. I also had a strange issues with my cable companies clear QAM channels. the channel had the same # but was now broadcasting QVC instead of NBC. I knew explaining this to some 1st level tech would be pointless. So I posted it on their FB page, where another user confirmed it. The issue was quickly resolved publicly. I assume the person who manages the Facebook page has the ability to skip level one and get an answer. Also, by using their public page, It helps shame them into working quickly for large high level issues. It's probably not going to work if you have a billing question or a company that does not care about public perception.
I used to work for a Telco and our customers had tight timeframes on their service with rather significant penalties. One of their customers would see their connection go down once to twice a week for about twenty minutes at 8pm local time.
The cause was tracked down by a field tech attending site before the regular downtime and discovered the cause was the cleaner chocking the comms room door open so he could vacuum the floor. The only problem was that the power cable for the site router was directly in the way between the door and the cabinet and the door being wedged open twice a week against the cable eventually killed the cable via metal fatigue. The immediate fix was not chocking the door open hard like that. The long term fix was replacing the cable with one with a 90' connector that sent the cable straight down instead of out to be vulnerable to this.
Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
Lie. Call the 1st level support and tell them it won't power up. Tell them you've tried 3 different plugs and connected it straight into the wall, otherwise they'll have you do it. Then they are out of options and the only thing they can do is send you another one. If someone comes to install the new one and sees the old one powers up, shrug your shoulders and say the spouse put the call in.
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs
Consider yourself lucky not to have to deal with this kind of people and process internally in your own company. I am working for a very large company with a lot of bureaucratic process and even if I can pinpoint down the problem to save time there is absolutely nothing to do. You can tell them where the problem is and they staff responsible for my own laptop will spend one week investigating unrelated things and asking pointless questions about a device that has nothing to do with the problem. I have such a problem that is open for about 2 months and still unresolved while it clearly needs a firmware update, even recommended by the manufacturer and I have no privileges to do it myself and the refuses to update any firmware. Instead, they suggested to replace the laptop by a older model.
Achille Talon
Hop!
Take ISP's modem / router, place on top of microwave oven (I *know* you have long cables, if necessary, sitting around somewhere). Fill a very large bowl with water and heat on low for 20 minutes.** Do not touch bowl of water for at least an hour.** Take portable AM radio, tune to a station low on the dial, and place on top of modem / router. Call tech support.
... this that have some (better or worse) grasp of the IT side of things, but have zero understanding of processes on the service provider side. These people think that doing some things are easy, when they are not. Yes, it may be just one command on a device, but it may come with several people involved, 10 forms to fill out, etc. and that makes it hard for the service provider to do.
Now, I am not defending this, but that is the reality the support member you are pestering has to face.
Side note: If you do not understand the bureaucratic dysfunctionality routinely present in any large company then you are not an "IT pro".
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
IT people don't call tech support, we fix our own routers. If such a basic device is beyond your skill set then you really have no place calling yourself an "IT Professional".
The only time I called my ISP in the past 10 years was to upgrade my account, and twice for billing issues.
An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
Tool is called a pole lopper and it works great when comcast refused to fix a problem cased by wind damage to their equipment six months after the wind storm. Called qwest and ordered a fax line. After qwest fixed the bridge taps and gave me a clean line for a fax machine, I switched the dsl to it. Same copper works for 40mg now.
(former isp admin for DSL roll-out in the 90's)
*"Cogito Ergo Liberalis"*
After a rather troublesome issue with my internet service and a back and forth episode with my ISP's Tier 1 TS, I was transferred to T2 where I was able to get my issue resolved nearly immediately. The rep gave me the T2 direct number so that "You won't need to fuss with all that pre-recorded bs again, since by the time you've called, you have already done everything it tells you to do and more in some cases."
After a number of years and at least one move, I'm still with the same ISP, but have lost the T2 diect number. Normally I'll just patiently grind through the prompts like it's a bad MMO if I need to call TS these days.
The error message is stupid no matter the reason for the check. With the old Macs it was similar, if no mouse was connected, it would say "No mouse found. Click on Ok to continue." Of course, there was no way to acknowledge the message with the keyboard, and the Mac was unusable without a mouse.
Also, the error says that the keyboard was not found, not the keyboard controller. The computer, even with the hack, should have run fine without keyboard (and in fact there was a setting in most computer's BIOSes of that time to disable this message).
You deal with the service reps just like any other service. This is not the time to show off and demonstrate your ultimate knowledge. You can say anything about how you checked your router or whatever, in a nice way. The worst way to get someone's help is stating or implying they are imbeciles. Better to treat them with respect.
Keep in mind, those reps are following some scripts, and have certain rules and guidelines they need to follow - even the tech savvy ones. You are not just dealing with a rep, you are essentially dealing with an entire company. If their procedures are bad, blame the company and not the rep - and your way to protest is to switch provider.
Plus, IT nerds may not always be so superior and better-knowing that we some times would like to think. I have had my share of ISP problems for a wireless technology, and every single time "have you booted your antenna" is part of the conversation. Eventually I stopped bothering and started replying that "no, and that was never the solution when I had problems in the past, so there must be a problem with the ISP side of the network". Until a couple months back when that was exactly what magically fixed the problem.
Make sure to get something written in a support request by email or some ticketing system, so you have a log which you can point to later when the process drags on, so you can show when you first reported the problem, what solutions have already been tested, and how the problem persists - updating the ticket yourself if none of the reps does it. This makes it easier to have later conversations, up to the point where you demand money back. This then becomes your proof, rather than just vaguely referring to various phone calls - and is what eventually may get you through the various layers of people and processes designed to prevent you from talking to someone who is actually in charge of things.
Enjoy the story!
A nice story indeed, but utter bullshit. It has enough snippets sounding vaguely plausible, and similar enough to real facts, but assembled in a way that makes it wrong. To get info about the real deal about the A20 address line, check Wikipedia instead. Interestingly this wikipedia article is also linked from the "nice story" article.
Here's where the "nice story" is wrong:
The real explanation for the strange error message is actually the following: "No keyboard (or broken keyboard) connected to the computer. How could anybody possibly use a computer without a keyboard? Please connect a (working) keyboard to the computer, and Press F1 when done".
It's still stupid, but for a different reason (servers don't need keyboards). That's why modern BIOSes allow you to disable keyboard check, if you want to deliberately run your computer without a keyboard.
Most of the Service Desk Agents staffing first tier support are not technical.
Be nice, answer their questions and ask polite to be transferred to 2-Tier support on the end of the script.
1-Tier support tends to be less cooperative when you're starting to yell and accusing them for lack of knowledge. Treat them as human beings, but let them understand you know what you are talking about. Be as cooperative as required from the service desk.You get much more...
Otherwise there is the risk you do not get proper support.
1-Tier, 2-Tier, 3-Tier, Incident Manager, Problem Manager: been there, done that.
If you don't get to 2-Tier support or a solution, open a complaint ticket. Any mature organization accepts complaints through the service desk and will handle them as it is a regulated procedure.
Real life:
Me: My ADSL modem doesn't synchronize anymore. I've already checked and double-checked cabling and made a hardware reset.
SD: Funny I see you're modem connected.
Me: Hmmmm... The modem is not connected to AC power nor it is connected to the PSTN line. Would you be so kind to transfer me to 2-Tier please?
SD: hold on.... transferring to 2-Tier
Well, this is just the only justified reason a 1-Tier Agent would have to interrupt the call, just after he recorded the swearing for a review of his actions.
Honestly, the best way to go about it is to do a data dump: Explain in detail to the 1st level support what you've done already, and what the symptoms are. They'll either understand and do what needs to be done (pass you along, send you a new modem, send out a new tech) or not understand and try to stick to their script. If you throw in "I have already power-cycled" several times, they'll usually catch on. When I worked in level 1 support for many years, I was more impressed by someone telling me detailed information rather than trying to get to a higher level support or throwing around titles. (When Mr. I-am-an-MCSE had no idea what an IP address was, I lost all respect for titles)
I have actually worked in support. A phone call is the worst possible medium for resolving a technical issue. Either email or chat is far superior.
No, no it isn't.
Its easier for the tech support guy trying to not have to do any work and at the same time not caring about getting anything done or actually solving any problems. Using email or chat ... WHEN YOUR INTERNET DOESN't WORK is ... well, pretty fucking stupid of a suggestion.
Chat alone takes longer, loses subtle clues that voice doesn't, lets you have some sort of idea how much time it takes the customer to do things, there are hundreds of reasons why a voice call is more efficient than chat or email, both of which take an order of magnitude or 2 (respectively) to accomplish anything.
I'm sure you're customer service skills are right up there with Comcast and TWC by the sound of it.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
It's been my experience that, at least for the major U.S. cable companies, the best support experience for the experienced IT professional is Twitter. The ISPs seem to staff their Twitter desks with people who have deep knowledge and a willingness to give a technically-adept customer the benefit of the doubt.
It also helps if you think hard about how you can describe your problem completely in one or two 140-character tweets. Generally, this requires knowing the lingo. A tweet that speaks the tech's own language gets more benefit of the doubt. Saying you're an experienced tech does little; way too many people think they know what they're talking about. Speaking intelligently about the technology used in the ISP's own systems identifies you as someone who Knows Their Stuff and cuts back on the scripted BS.
If your local cable company tends to send out trucks that say "contractor," you may want to get in the habit of asking them to send a genuine employee when you schedule a service call. The contractors are usually paid a flat rate per job, and so they are in a hurry to wrap it up and get to the next house instead of making sure the work is done right. I've found this to be a particular issue with Cox: if a contractor comes out, I will have to call back and get a supervisor out to do the work correctly, sooner or later.
Most companies have "executive office customer relations" teams nowadays, because people have figured out that calling the CEO's office when all else fails can be effective. Contacting the CEO's office, or the executive customer support team, is usually effective. I find it's best to sound a little upset, but not angry, when you make the call. The right attitude is "I'm really unhappy, and ready to jump ship, but I know you'd like to help me and I want to give you one last chance to make it right; can we work together on that?"
Sometimes, an executive-office contact will wind up giving you the direct number of a local tech supervisor or manager. That's pure gold, but you have to be careful not to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Save the contact, but don't use it again unless (a) you're specifically told to call under certain circumstances or (b) you've already tried the normal support process and it hasn't worked. Yes, it's powerful to have the local head tech's phone number. It's even more powerful if he learns that you only call him when there's a real problem or serious communications breakdown in his organization.
"We are entering an age when kids have grown up with technology, and don't make half the dumb mistakes their elders did."
We really aren't, though.
I work support for an MSP, and plenty of our clients have plenty of people my age (mid-30s) and younger who do just as many dumb things as their middle-aged supervisors. They're just as bad at explaining what their problem is, just as bad at following directions, and just as bad at not doing the thing again. They're definitely not any better at not falling for obvious scams, and get really pissy when they realize that. They're definitely no more skilled at putting the square connector in the square hole, and the green plug in the green socket. They certainly aren't willing to try and figure something out on their own, or take the initiative to 'try turning it off and then on again' before calling in, just in the off chance that fixes it.
Sadly, the notion that in 30 years when all the so-called 'dumb old people' die off we're going to be a world of enlightened computer geniuses is a fantasy, if my experience in support is any indication. I don't think even those users' younger siblings, who grew up on 'apps' and smartphones and tablets rather than proper computers, are going to be any better as a group when they hit the workforce.
"These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
It sounds like they wanted to pull the "managed service" bullshit on you. When I get into that situation I give them written notice that they are not providing service as described in their agreements and that they have 30 days from receipt to remedy the situation or you will take any action necessary to fix their problem. I've done this a few times, it works. Usually though in an MSA you have an escalation clause and you do have to give them all the chances to fix their problem. Under contract law you can't be shackled because they're failing to provide service or if the services are "unusable" as long as they're getting paid under the agreement. If you just signed their boilerplate agreement, you'll still have remedies available to you but in a business don't take their boilerplate at face value especially when it comes to service levels. If they won't work with you on terms and conditions especially if they're extremely one-sided, find another provider.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
I'm going to guess it went beyond swearing to threats of violence against the agent and/or the company.
It is unwise to ascribe motive
open the box up, find a likely looking component, apply 110 volts, call up the company and complain it suddenly stopped working. That's probably overkill, you could probably just open it up and cut all the wires, they probably don't autopsy each one.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
2) actually wants to help you solve the problen
I believe you overestimate the dedication of a tech support drone at any level.
Certainly there isn't as much motivation for a company to supply copious easy to access competent free tech support after the purchase as the user would like to see.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Honestly, as a last resort, it's not a bad idea. I have a fair amount of ESD test gear at work, including a bunch of static discharge guns and the like that can be dialed up to some crazy levels. I was once stuck in a situation much as you - they controlled the modem/router and it was crapping out every few hours, and they were the only game in town for non-dialup access (this was 15ish years ago). I'd already replaced it with a spare that did not have the issue, but since it wasn't provisioned, the only place I could go was their internal pages.
I spent probably two hours going through L1 support, L2 support, and then had them tell me that "oh, sometimes the boxes just do that". So I took the box to work, fried the shit out of it, plugged it back in to let it power up and do real damage to itself now that half the fet gates were probably cooked, and then called them back to tell them that the box had finally crapped out and started smoking. They promptly sent me a new one, and told me "must have been lightning or some sort of power surge."
Yup, a power surge indeed.
That kinda thing happens in the automotive biz a lot. Electronic ignition modules on Fords way back when that would crap out when they got hot, for instance, but the company was strongarming the dealers on warranty replacement. A little creative wiring to the wall socket and the intermittent fault becomes much less intermittent.....
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
When I get on, I tell them I need Tier 2 support. They'll ask what the issue is, and I'll be completely technical... so much so that they know some of the words, but are overwhelmed. If that doesn't do it, ask for a manager.
I pay hostmonster for hosting. I now have a direct Tier 2 email address for some issues.....
It's all a case of proving your bonafides. Did you offer to send them logfiles? And what o/s are you running? It frequently gets me past the calltaker when I tell them I run Linux.
mark
While I attempt to ask for "Tier 2 tech support". If I have some time, I will generally let the Tier 1 folks read from the queue cards. The way I see it is this: In the world of IT/IS, There is always something new to learn. Many of us don't have time to learn everything about everything we deal with, especially in the world where BYOD and unauthorized software conflicts occur. Sometimes, I may be surprised at a step they have me do that I may have forgotten. I jot it down while doing it and feel good that I learned something new/forgotten. Otherwise, if they stepped me though everything that I've done, then I feel good that I did everything the official company says to do. Also, there's no reason to be rude to these guys/gals. They have to talk to the same types of 'frequent flyers' as we do. They may only be doing this to advance in IT/IS; to be able to properly assume the person, on the other end of the phone, know to plug it in before complaining that it doesn't work.
I have actually worked in support. A phone call is the worst possible medium for resolving a technical issue. Either email or chat is far superior. So the reason you are treated like a moron when you phone in, is because you are a moron. Furthermore, since dealing with morons is unpleasant, only the dregs and newbies work the phone lines, and are quickly promoted to chat/email as soon as they display the least bit of competence. Nearly all companies offer chat as an option, since is both cheaper and more effective. So stop using the phone.
One problem is that there are actually a lot of calls which are most effectively answered by a moron, the RTFM type questions, hypothetical questions of the type "if I leave my laptop plugged in all the time will the batteries explode?", etc.; the real lack of acuity is the ability of the first line personnel to recognize quickly that the problem needs to be escalated.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Yes, I have been told to click on the dot in a circle. I really had to hold back the laughter on that one. Poor guy.
I just let it flow over me, keep records, and ask for a refund for time lost at the end. I once had my service out for a week - it literally took an earthquake to get it fixed (they finally had to power-cycle all of the equipment).
One think I learned from a certain ISP was to never call in the evening. The tech support centers in Pakistan were singularly unhelpful and would often scream at you if you tried to get to Tier 2 support.
When I called at 4am (United States CST) I would get an East German call center and would have a resolution to the problem within a half hour. And the half hour included discussing favorite types of schnapps.
NRRPT/RCT
A neon sign transformer works well for this type of diagnostic procedure. I also have a 0 to 5000 volt 1.5 amp DC power supply.
no toolkit is complete without a 5-15-P to 1096-A adapter (etherkiller)
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
I dont have issues with my ISP very often and if I do it usually isnt their fault. Trying to get them to understand that I realize that it isnt their fault was always the real issue. I usually start the conversation assuming that they know what they are doing. That inevitably fails and I talk to them as if I am the tech support.
I usually give them 2-3 minutes to see if they are knowledgeable enough to deal with my problem. After that I resort to my catch all phrase: "If you dont know what I am talking about then either connect me to someone that does or LET ME TALK TO YOUR BOSS." Either action has a good success rate. I also over emphasize the severity of my problem because otherwise they often think they know enough to deal with my problem.
For the NVG510, there's a lot of work involved - now including downgrading the firmware.
http://earlz.net/view/2012/06/...
Yes, the modem is horribly broken - giving the NAD-2902 error message for days when the Internet is actually available after any brief momentary glitch in connectivity. The only fix is to root it and then enable bridge mode via telnet (and then disable checking for firmware updates). The latest firmware blocks this only fix, so you have to downgrade your firmware first.
It's simple. By the time I call Support, I've already done everything they're going to ask of me and, most likely, a few things they haven't thought to ask me. So I just like and let them walk through the steps, give them the right answers to get to the next step on their flow-chart and eventually get kicked up to Second Tier or Third Tier support.
I used to be more impatient and blurt out to them everything I did, but that just confused them because it didn't follow their script. Now, I just call when it's convenient and lie my way through their process at my leisure. It's a little frustrating sometimes, but it eventually gets the results.
Oh, the trials and tribulations of a network geek! Read about them at: http://www.ryumaou.com/hoffman/netgeek/
I sent in an email once. I got an autoresponse that emails were lower priority than phone calls and that I would get a response within 7 business days. So... I call BS.
Also, the chat service doesn't work if your internet/phone is out. That is usually why I call, it's not like I just want to say hi or something.
Assuming everyone has a smartphone, eh? Well, I don't. I pay 12 bucks a month for basic cell service, no need to bump it to $50+ for the rare occasions it would help me chat with tech support.