3D Printing Might Save the Rhinoceros

GordonShure.com writes: San Francisco based biotech startup Pembient have released details of their 3D printing led method to derail the market for Rhinoceros horns. Presently the bulk of demand originates from China, where said horns — gathered in the wild by poachers who usually kill the rhinos — are revered for supposed medicinal qualities. The new firm intends to mix keratin with Rhino DNA, then machine the combination with a 3D printer in a way that their counterfeit horns are difficult to detect by customers and traffickers alike.

The company already mulls expanding its production principle to other, lucrative wild animal trades such as the claws of tigers and lions. Pembient is however a young company — for all their ingenuity, will their ambitions to take on such a colossal black market be realized?

Comments

Love the idea

[Digital Pizza]

... but considering the type of people they're going up against, I hope they don't end up wearing concrete boots.

Re:Love the idea

[ArmoredDragon]

Add to it the fact that it will probably not work - to those using it as "medicine" it's only the real deal or nothing.

That's the point, they're trying to make it so that you can't tell the difference between real and fake. The idea is that you make it so cheap that poaching becomes economically unfeasible.

If the fake is good enough, then the only way to detect counterfeits is to have a traceable source. If there's a traceable source, the poachers are liable to get caught.

Re:Love the idea

[knwny]

That is the first thing that comes to mind....those buying these products usually have their own reliable sources to ensure that they are get what they pay for. So a huge challenge would be to identify the points in the chain where they can introduce these printed ones. And if someone does identify such points it would be more, easier, prudent and ethical to inform the authorities instead.

Re:Love the idea

[Adriax]

They aren't introducing Diet Horn here, they're trying to poison the supply chain.

The poachers probably aren't big proponents of a verifiable, traceable supply chain. They don't laser etch a serial number in the things after a kill. So you insert these fake horns into the chain and you dis-incentivize the poaching by driving prices down. Plus you get the witchdoctors questioning whether their supplier is selling them real of fake horns, which can lead to trust breakdowns and stop some purchases.
And hey, the smarter witchdoctors know it's all bullshit they're giving a polish to. So they'll secretly purchase completely legal and probably much cheaper fakes straight from the source and keep giving their victims a show.

Re:Love the idea

[ShanghaiBill]

...those buying these products usually have their own reliable sources to ensure that they are get what they pay for.

Those buying the products in bulk don't really care if they are genuine, they only care if the next customer in the supply chain will buy it. The end users, who are dumb enough to believe that ground up horn is going to cure their erectile dysfunction, don't have the means to test it. The end market is in China, where melamine is dumped into baby formula, dried weeds are sold as tea, and noodles are often preserved with formaldehyde. They just do not have the supply chain infrastructure to ensure quality or authenticity. The fake rhino horn could work well.

Re:Love the idea

[quantaman]

Add to it the fact that it will probably not work - to those using it as "medicine" it's only the real deal or nothing. Unless you are able to flood the market entirely and use "an offer you can't refuse" deals with so much fake stuff that it's impossible for the poachers to sell their stuff.

The people smuggling the horns aren't exactly the most ethical businessmen. If you can sell them a fake horn for half the price they'll keep the profit, pass it on as real to the consumer, and the poachers might not be able to compete.

There will still be a few "legitimate" supply chains making sure they're getting the real deal, but it could put a lot of poachers out of business.

Re:Love the idea

[Anonymous Coward]

... but considering the type of people they're going up against, I hope they don't end up wearing concrete boots.

It won't work. Cubic zirconias and artificial diamonds exist and it doesn't stop De Beers selling the real thing at ridiculous prices.

This is not a technical problem and a technical solution won't work. It is a social problem.

Re:Love the idea

[DrXym]

This is China, home of counterfeit products, up to and including counterfeit medicine, baby formula, oil and every thing else. I am quite certain that nobody will give a damn if it's real or not providing they can fool the next person up the supply chain. And in this case, it's not like using the counterfeit would have the slightest difference from the real thing since they're both placebos.

So yeah, let them flood the market with the phony item. Personally I don't think it would work though. It would be more effective for China to stop promoting this bullshit and for countries around the world to crack down on Chinese medicine in general.

Re:Love the idea

[drinkypoo]

The poachers probably aren't big proponents of a verifiable, traceable supply chain. They don't laser etch a serial number in the things after a kill.

So what will happen is that most of the poachers will go out of business, but the nastiest, most tenacious poachers will band together and provide these features, because some ultra-rich Chinese guy will pay them umpty-ump dollars for certified rhino horn. Meanwhile, producing more rhino horn will make it possible for more people to buy it, which means more people will get "hooked" on it as they convince themselves it works — and if they break into the big time, they will go looking for the real thing, eventually, and insist upon authentic product. So what they are really doing here is increasing the market for the product.

The solution to this problem, if we could institute it, would be to fine the living fuck out of anyone buying rhino horn that they believe to be real, and spend the money on rhino maintenance... and vaporizing poachers. To stop killing is the one time I think killing is valid, and I don't see that these people have any more right to exist than rhinos. So let's take poaching as seriously as we do "MERICAFREEDOMFUCKYEAH" (or whatever country) and just make a genuine concerted effort to exterminate the poachers.

Re:Love the idea

[gbjbaanb]

I don't see the problem - the people they're up against will simply take the technology and start making their own rhino horn. After all, they understand profit more than most, so being able to make their own "honest guv, its real rhino, would I lie to you" 'medicine' without all the expense of paying some middleman poacher, you know they're going to go full-on in the fake rhino horn trade.

Re:Love the idea

[Big Hairy Ian]

... but considering the type of people they're going up against, I hope they don't end up wearing concrete boots.

3D printed concrete boots of course :D

Re:Love the idea

[The Grim Reefer]

The end market is in China, where melamine is dumped into baby formula, dried weeds are sold as tea, and noodles are often preserved with formaldehyde.

Those are for products manufactured for the masses, not the rich. I agree with the rest of what you stated.

Re:Love the idea

[Skylinux]

The diamond trade is artificially protected since it is a legal product and boosted by marketing. Your wife may not be able to tell the difference but advertisement tells you that only the real deal is worth it.
If I remember correctly it is the flaws in a natural diamond that make it "spark" more then a grown one.

The fake horns may work as long as no simple test is developed to check for authenticity.
The better approach would probably be to convince people but truth rarely works ..... even westerners still believe in things like Homeopathy ;)

Re:Love the idea

[pr0nbot]

If I were a poacher, and the premium for "real" horn was sufficient for me to keep poaching, I'd start delivering the head with the horn. Not sure we'll see printed heads in my lifetime.

Re:Love the idea

[ArcadeMan]

So let's take poaching as seriously as we do "MERICAFREEDOMFUCKYEAH" (or whatever country) and just make a genuine concerted effort to exterminate the poachers.

The hunters become the hunted. Promote it as a hunting sport/capital punishment thing and add paid live streaming worldwide.

Re:Love the idea

[rmdingler]

...those buying these products usually have their own reliable sources to ensure that they are get what they pay for.

Those buying the products in bulk don't really care if they are genuine, they only care if the next customer in the supply chain will buy it. The end users, who are dumb enough to believe that ground up horn is going to cure their erectile dysfunction, don't have the means to test it. The end market is in China, where melamine is dumped into baby formula, dried weeds are sold as tea, and noodles are often preserved with formaldehyde. They just do not have the supply chain infrastructure to ensure quality or authenticity. The fake rhino horn could work well.

Ironically, testosterone or one of DrugCo's magic cures for ED could be included in the counterfeit horn, so it works better than the real McCoy.

Re:Love the idea

[rmdingler]

If I were a poacher, and the premium for "real" horn was sufficient for me to keep poaching, I'd start delivering the head with the horn. Not sure we'll see printed heads in my lifetime.

Oh, you never know!

Re:Love the idea

[GameboyRMH]

That gives me a great idea - turn the poachers into middlemen. Get them to resell the fake horns at a large profit. It gives them a vested interest in passing off the fake horns as the real thing instead of making them compete with the fake horns, and the smugglers will be none the wiser.

Re: Love the idea

[WindBourne]

I would rather include something that turns skin blue after eating so many. Or makes them limp forever.

Re: Love the idea

[WindBourne]

Who says that de beers is not selling artificial diamonds as well?

Re:Love the idea

[Adriax]

I'm not quite sure, but adding an extra one to two thousand pounds of rotting packaging to your illicit product may impact your possible shipping channels.
Plus sawing through a neck instead of the much thinner horn would be a wee bit slower.

Re:Love the idea

[Joce640k]

The idea is that you make it so cheap that poaching becomes economically unfeasible.

I had no idea that AK47 bullets were so expensive.

Re:Love the idea

[FooAtWFU]

The solution to this problem, if we could institute it, would be to fine the living fuck out of anyone buying rhino horn that they believe to be real... and vaporizing poachers

Good idea, sir. We'll be sure to get the World Police right onto that, right after we consolidate our New World Order by quashing the outbreak of ungoodthink in Eurasia. As for vaporizing the poachers themselves... What do you think of drones with M-388 rounds? Make a real pretty little crater.

Re:Love the idea

[Penguinisto]

As the siblings have said... DeBeers gets away with it because it is a highly protected trade of legal products that is fiercely enforced by a cartel.

Nowadays, many (if not most) lab-grown gem-quality diamonds are almost perfectly indistinguishable from the ones dug out of the Earth. Only a very small handful of human beings could even halfway consistently tell the difference between such diamonds in general, if not already informed of their respective origins. In some cases, the only real difference is the microscopic serial number that the lab diamonds are required to etch onto their wares. TBH, it would only take a small handful of labs to start growing a few on the side and quietly 'corrupt' the market to take that particular cartel down - especially if the truth only came out years/decades (and thousands of lab diamonds) later. The jewelry stores won't give a damn and would happily pitch in on the scheme - they normally mark-up their gems at some obscene rate then 'cut' the 'retail price' by half to make you think you're getting a great deal anyway... they'd have no compunction against selling lab-grown diamonds at the same 'retail' prices (but paying something like 20-40% less to the supplier).

But, all that said, there is another aspect to it - people buy gem-quality** diamonds due to perceived aesthetic value alone, and for no other reason. They know it won't cure any ailment, and what physical properties it does have (e.g. it won't rot, rust, etc) are well known and prove, but are incidental at most.

On the other hand, rhino horns, tiger penises, and similar are bought/sold based on perceived medicinal properties, which is measured by a whole different metric of demand, valuation, and economics.

** gem-quality as opposed to industrial, obviously.

Re:Love the idea

[gtbritishskull]

So, sell the fake horns for $3,000. Problem solved. You're welcome.

Re:Love the idea

[pjt33]

One to two thousand pounds would be the whole rhino, not the head. And if you're chopping off the head then you can use a chainsaw without worrying about destroying some of the end product.

Re:Love the idea

[ArmoredDragon]

The fact that meth is cheap to produce doesn't mean it's cheap to distribute.

Re:Love the idea

[drinkypoo]

As for vaporizing the poachers themselves... What do you think of drones with M-388 rounds? Make a real pretty little crater.

If that's what it takes to prevent them from driving the rhinoceros to extinction, I'll sign my name to the petition.

Re:Love the idea

[Lab Rat Jason]

If you could find the poachers, to turn them into middle-men, then couldn't you also find the poachers and turn them into... jailbirds?

Conversely

[quenda]

given so few wild rhinos are left, how about giving them all prosthetic horns, to reduce their value?
It would still be a story, because you can use 3D printers for that too, if you really wanted to.

Re:Conversely

[antiperimetaparalogo]

In some wild life parks the "good guys" cut the horns from rhinoceros as a way to protect them from the "bad guys", so a "prosthetic horn" is dangerous idea actually.

Re:Conversely

[mvdw]

In some wild life parks the "good guys" cut the horns from rhinoceros as a way to protect them from the "bad guys", so a "prosthetic horn" is dangerous idea actually.

...Unless the prosthetic horn looks nothing like the original horn, be it by colour or whatever.

Re:Conversely

[jklovanc]

The problem is that the poachers killed the rhinos anyway because they did not want to waste time tracking a rhino without a horn. It was a good idea but didn't work.

Re:Conversely

[cfalcon]

Not if the prosthetic horn was visibly and obviously not a real rhino horn (to the poachers and also to those giving it to them).

Given that a rhino can absolutely live without its horn... why not farm them? They wouldn't be cheap to farm, but I absolutely don't buy the cheap counterargument of "it would create demand". As long as your rhino farmers aren't some massive conglomerate trying to increase demand (ex, tobacco industry) but instead offering the "real deal" at prices that, while still expensive, could put men who risk their lives and are in some cases willing to kill to get their rhino horn cash, into different jobs completely...

Another piece is that, by virtue of having such a risk/reward setup that encourages killing or maiming the rhino so as to have a lower chance of being caught, the current system does not do quite as much to discourage the harm of rhinos as it could. A setup that, to a rational poacher, would make it worth their while to remove a horn and leave the animal healthy, would do a great deal here. An example might be that, if caught harvesting, the poacher is fined but gets to keep some fraction of the horn- but only if the animal is (not counting the horn mutilation) unharmed, with the existing stringent punishments for a poacher caught in the hack-and-slash situation.

Obviously, the ideal solution would be a twofold combination of, an artificial rhino horn that is indistinguishable and essentially the same biologically as the horn (thus undercutting the market, and also satisfying whatever mages need these for spell components or whatever), and a system that protects the existing rhinos more absolutely than the current one. This is partially a good effort towards the first (but doesn't seem to satisfy the 'artificial rhino horn' for the consumers, who will inevitably evolve more sophisticated tests), and the second is already the main attempt at protection... but it doesn't seem able to solve the problem for the desperate poachers, who are still faced with a good enough rate of return for their risk (solving the problem in this case being raising their risk to near unity).

Overall:
It's an interesting idea, but ultimately I have a lot of doubts. In order for it to work, they need to make the product that they advertise, put in place a linkage to the existing illicit rhino traders, a dubious path, especially if some believe that the rhino really IS magical or whatever, and finally, have a solid enough solution in place that a lab can't simply detect their forgery with ease, thus rendering their fake product low value, while ALSO apparently convincing the rhino preservationists that this is all a good idea (generally not possible: they'll give you a story about how it will create demand for genuine rhino parts)....

It seems they have well educated if misguided western opponents who don't want to legitimize the trade, armed and desperate southern opponents who want to poach to feed their families, and wealthy and essentially religious eastern opponents who will jump through hoops to ensure that the Horn Must Flow so they can drink their immortality soup or cast their blizzard spells or whatever. That's a lot of enemies... and before the fact that they could have cash flow issues, and have nothing else to fall back on.

Risky investment indeed!

Re:Conversely

[edittard]

If you'd read the article you linked to, you'd see it does work, but not 100%.

Re:Conversely

[jklovanc]

Here is the conclusion from the article:

A first priority for all rhino conservationists should be to ensure adequate anti-poaching monitoring and security (including intelligence-gathering) to protect rhino populations, and only then should dehorning be considered, for is a rhino really a rhino without its horn?

The effectiveness of dehorning alone is much closer to 0% than it is to 100%. Dehorning is only a small part of the solution.

Re:Conversely

[GameboyRMH]

New idea: Give the rhinos an authentic-looking prosthetic horn with some C4 in it and a tensioned trigger wire running to the old horn stump. If some fucker cuts the horn off, BOOM.

Re:Conversely

[swillden]

New idea: Give the rhinos an authentic-looking prosthetic horn with some C4 in it and a tensioned trigger wire running to the old horn stump. If some fucker cuts the horn off, BOOM.

Just means the poacher needs an expendable human, too. Those aren't particularly hard to obtain, unfortunately. And you also have to be very careful to ensure that the bomb won't go off when the rhino smacks something with its horn. Though I suppose blowing up all the rhinos will stop the poaching...

Re:Conversely

[GameboyRMH]

It should be pretty hard to obtain an expendable human in the countries where the remaining rhinos live. C4 is very stable and won't go off on impact, but a stable and long-lasting detonator would be needed.

Re:Conversely

[jklovanc]

Rhino horns grow about an inch a year. They will eventuality grow enough to shed the prosthetic and boom, one dead rhino.

Re:Conversely

[jklovanc]

Take a look at the current range. There are plenty of greedy/desperate people there. They already risk being shot by game wardens and the military why difference would a bomb make?

Re:Conversely

[LWATCDR]

How about this.
You allow very rich people to hunt Rhino Poachers?
Yes it is terrible idea and I don't really think it is a good idea.

Re:Conversely

[jklovanc]

We already have people who hunt rhino poachers. They are called game wardens and the military.

Re:Conversely

[swillden]

It should be pretty hard to obtain an expendable human in the countries where the remaining rhinos live. C4 is very stable and won't go off on impact, but a stable and long-lasting detonator would be needed.

Expendable humans are easy to find anywhere, and much easier in Africa than most places.

It's not about the stability of the explosive, or even the detonator, it's about the mechanism for triggering the detonator. It has to be sufficiently sensitive that it is certain to go off when the horn is removed, but cannot be triggered accidentally even by the enormous forces rhinos put on their horns. For that matter, getting the fake horn attachment to withstand those forces may not be trivial.

Re:The next Jurassic park movie

[Adriax]

"Run! We only have 37 days before the t-rex finishes printing and comes to get us!"

"We call it the Cartridge Contingency. If the dinosaurs become uncontrollable we just stop replacing the cartridges in the printer and no more dinosaurs. Much faster than the Lysine Contingency of the first island."

Stupid people...

[Anonymous Coward]

And their old man remedy that have no scientific basis... Are the reason why every animal other than life stocks are dying out.

Will price point even matter?

[hedgemage]

Considering the market is being driven by very wealthy individuals who will pay any price for their boner pills, I would think that it wouldn't substantially change the price since these wealthy individuals could afford to pay a little extra to have certified 100% real rhino horn that's been lab tested. Unless the copies are so good that they will fool even experts, its not going to stop the trade. Sounds like a great way to make money off of the people who can't afford the real stuff, though!

Re:Will price point even matter?

[Pinky's Brain]

Mix in random poisons.

Re:Will price point even matter?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps flood the market until they are worth nothing, see how many people bother poaching.

Re:Will price point even matter?

[cfalcon]

Are you suggesting poisoning people? That seems absurd.

Also, what poisons? Keep in mind your poisons have to have a long enough life, penetrate the entire horn of a living creature without harming it (likely impossible), and in your BEST case scenario, end up hurting actual people. Plus the fact that, to be effective, the poisons would have to be unfilterable / unbindable, an unlikely situation.

It's not just morally dubious, it's overall just evil. But unlike most evil plans, it doesn't help anyone, not even the rhinos.

Re:Will price point even matter?

[Xest]

"Keep in mind your poisons have to have a long enough life, penetrate the entire horn of a living creature without harming it (likely impossible),"

Why? you'd just lace the horns once they've already been removed, or lace the fake ones and seed them into the market. It would only take a few casualties to massively drop demand.

"and in your BEST case scenario, end up hurting actual people"

Is this somehow worse than hurting actual rhinos? Is there some reason to class humans as a super species that have a greater right to exist than any others other than anthropomorphic arrogance?

What about the people whose lives are taken by poachers? what about the people whose livelihoods are destroyed by poachers potentially resulting in their lives being taken? Are the lives of rich Chinese folks more important than everyone else?

What about the fact that when poachers make a kill they often lace the animal carcass with poison so that the hundreds of vultures that descend on a fresh carcass are also wiped out because otherwise park rangers see the vulture swarm and know where the poachers are active? What about the people who are dying of disease because vulture populations have been decimated due to this practice meaning there are no vulture clean up flocks around in more populated areas any more to deal with decaying disease ridden carcasses of feral dogs and such that the vultures remove? Do those people not matter either?

What about the people who have died due to conflict and terrorism funded by spoils from poaching? do those victims no matter either?

I'm not advocating the GPs plan but I don't think it's as clear cut as you make out, certainly were that eventuality to occur, that given that the Chinese government wont do anything to quash the myth that rhino horn is magical, then if nothing else I'd have zero sympathy for the victims were this to happen- I'd rather have people like that suffer, than the people whose lives are taken, livelihoods are destroyed by poaching, or the poached animals themselves. Plenty of rangers and locals who have had the misfortune to run into poaching groups have also died because of these people, why should I care if something happened to the consumers at the other end? Their actions have killed enough people and animals.

Make no mistake, demand for these horns from the people buying the product have enough blood on their hands, it's not a victimless crime, on the contrary, there are many, many victims so the people who consume and feed this trade becoming victims is actually a very much preferable alternative to the status quo. It's much better that people responsible for a problem suffer, than innocent bystanders.

Re:Will price point even matter?

[MrL0G1C]

I'd put it something that both makes people puke their guts up and makes them unable to get it up (if such a thing exists).

Immoral? No, it's punishment, no more immoral than prison.

Re:Will price point even matter?

[DrXym]

I don't see it as evil. Paint the horn a danger colour to indicate it's poisoned and if anyone is fucking stupid enough to consume it, then they get what they deserve. No different than if they decided to imbibe any other poisonous plant or animal. As for the poison, I'm sure there are numerous options given that a horn is just keratin.

Re:Will price point even matter?

[richy freeway]

I'd put it something that both makes people puke their guts up and makes them unable to get it up (if such a thing exists).

Lots of beer then?

Re:Will price point even matter?

[flink]

Are you suggesting poisoning people? That seems absurd.

But we do it for other products. We poison industrial ethanol so the government doesn't tax it at the recreational rate. We spike opioid analgesics with non-therapeuticly high levels of acetaminophen to discourage recreational use. If we're willing to poison things that are sold legitimately, why wouldn't we poison something that is illegal? I'm not saying it wouldn't work for other reasons you cited, but we've already stepped over the line as a society of intentionally poisoning things to discourage their use.

Re:Will price point even matter?

[LWATCDR]

"Is this somehow worse than hurting actual rhinos? Is there some reason to class humans as a super species that have a greater right to exist than any others other than anthropomorphic arrogance?"
Yes because it is our species. Really any member of a species that does not put the survival of the other members of it's species over a different species is flawed from a biological viewpoint. A prey animal will not allow a starving predator to take another member of the herd just so predator can survive. A rhino will not worry about killing a human if it can to protect the herd. It will also not worry about trampling and or eating the crops of a starving farmer. It is you that is trying to make humans into some kind of super species.
That is the purely biological reasons you are wrong and why this is a bad idea.

The ethical reason is that someone could be given that medication not of their free will. You can not target it at only the guilty with 100% accuracy.
But then I do not believe in the death penalty for murder much less for buying a pill.

Re:Will price point even matter?

[Solandri]

"and in your BEST case scenario, end up hurting actual people"

Is this somehow worse than hurting actual rhinos? Is there some reason to class humans as a super species that have a greater right to exist than any others other than anthropomorphic arrogance?

You can try to spin it however you want. The vast majority of the people on earth do in fact see humans as having a greater right to exist than other animals. If a rhino and person were caught on a see-saw contraption on a cliff where the process of saving one would condemn the other to death, 99% of people would choose to save the person.

In that context, you lose the moral high ground if you begin poisoning horns. The poachers are only hurting animals. You are hurting people. Therefore, you will be the worse criminal in most people's minds.

Re:Will price point even matter?

[Xest]

"You can try to spin it however you want. The vast majority of the people on earth do in fact see humans as having a greater right to exist than other animals."

I doesn't matter how I spin it, it doesn't mean it's right, whether it is or not is a wholly personal thing and doesn't make me any more wrong than someone that holds the opposite view. There's a fair argument backed by science though that allowing destruction of biodiversity only hurts us in the long run however.

"The poachers are only hurting animals."

Did you even read my post before replying? No they're not. Poachers are responsible for many, many human deaths both directly and indirectly.

Re:Will price point even matter?

[Xest]

"Yes because it is our species. Really any member of a species that does not put the survival of the other members of it's species over a different species is flawed from a biological viewpoint."

That assumes you have a complete grasp of the global ecosystem, which we don't. We do know that biodiversity reduction can lead to population collapse that can in turn hurt us though.

"A prey animal will not allow a starving predator to take another member of the herd just so predator can survive. A rhino will not worry about killing a human if it can to protect the herd. "

Though dogs have been known to die to protect humans. But this is really the point, one member of a species accepting a sacrifice for another is a well documented thing in nature because it's not about survival of an individual but survival of the species, and if killing people fuelling poaching which in turn leads to deaths of many other humans helps the species as a whole survive then you should be able to understand why your simplistic biological arguments fail to tell us anything much at all, contrary to what you're claiming.

I'm not going to pretend I've figured out the one true solution because I don't know how many dead poisoned people it would take to stop the trade relative to how many people killed directly and indirectly from poaching there would be without stopping the trade.

I also think there may well be other better options, like applying more political pressure on the Chinese government - as I say, I don't advocate the idea put forward, I'm merely pointing out that the person I responded to was wrong to claim it was a clear cut ethical choice, which it's not, just as it's not a clear cut choice from a biological standpoint as you're trying to argue either.

The fact is, we don't have the data to know either way. I'm not here to say my way is right and that's that, I'm merely here to point out that people who are saying that are arrogant and short sighted for not seeing that it's really not quite that simple.

Ecosystems are large and complex things, and you can't just simplify them down to us vs. them. Sometimes our existence is inextricably linked to theirs.

Re:Will price point even matter?

[Xest]

People aren't chemically addicted to rhino horn, you know that right?

Flesh on the horn

[Anonymous Coward]

This kind of technological solution is typical of nerds thousands of km away from the slaughter.

I have done some work in this field in South Africa. To preserver the sale price of a horn from counterfeits (like the post is promoting), the horns are now severed with a few centimetres of flesh. This proves that the horn is from a rhino, but has the adverse effect of killing the rhino.

This solution will only entrench the problem.

Hoped Viagra Would have taken care of it

[retroworks]

Had this idea 2 decades ago (for ivory as well), probably not as sophisticated as this (no DNA tricks), but I actually hoped the invention of viagra - real boner meds - would have won over in the market. Stupidity and evil are so persistent.

unworkable

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

Animal horns have intricate ordered microscopic structures that no 3D printer can reproduce, but that are easy to look for with a microscope.

Re:unworkable

[DNS-and-BIND]

Can confirm this. I've been with Chinese people who went to have artifacts verified, and they've got the whole mass spectrometer (or whatever it is they use for solids) set up. There are tons of companies involved in verifying pricey things, because Chinese of all people are well aware the market is full of fakes.

Re:unworkable

[fastest fascist]

So this would raise the cost of selling rhino horns by forcing buyers to have every piece checked, right? Not that I'm sure this is a great idea: If the horns are similar enough to pass for real horns in some meaningful sense, then won't it be easier to hide real horns among legal, fake horns?

Great Idea

[logicnazi]

Now if they just pass laws which make sure that if you can prove you are trafficing in *fake* rhino horn you are off the hook for fraud (and their aren't any trafficking laws) it should be possible to drive the market for rhino horns out of existence.

how should customs tell them apart?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Oh no officer, I'm not smuggling banned parts of poached animals that belong to an endangered species. These are just counterfeit good that are undistinguishable from such banned goods." Good luck with that.

Re:how should customs tell them apart?

[Kergan]

Print them where you want to sell them. :-)

Re:Rhino horns don't even work!

[TheRaven64]

for the vast majority of the Chinese people, over 90%, do not believe in the effectiveness of the rhino horns

So that's a target market of only 136 million?

with the exception of those living in the Hong Kong and surrounding region (mainly Guangzhou)

Oh, and they're only concentrated in one of the wealthiest areas? Definitely not a problem then.

Wouldn't it be easier...

[elmer at web-axis]

They should just put out stories saying they are putting 'rope' in the mist... Prayer of the Rollerboys style..

Rhino horn's function = Tylenol

[Taco Cowboy]

Instead of Viagra, rhino horn's main function in traditional Chinese medicine is much more closer to Tylenol

Rhino horn has never been used as aphrodisiacs in Chinese medicine

As there are hundreds of other ingredients, vast majority of them plant based, such as barley or chrysanthemum, which work much better as fever reducer in traditional Chinese medicine, rhino horns are actually not needed at all

A slippery slope?

[louic]

So if I understand correctly they are going to sell "medicine" that: 1. does not work 2. is not what it says on the bottle 3. is claimed to come from endangered animals So cheating is allowed now? I understand their good intentions, but everything about this is wrong. There are so many problems with this. Oh but wait, this is slashdot and it has "3D printing" in the title.

Re:Rhino horns don't even work!

[Feral Nerd]

The claim that the rhino horns are clamored as Chinese medicine is way over hyped - for the vast majority of the Chinese people, over 90%, do not believe in the effectiveness of the rhino horns, with the exception of those living in the Hong Kong and surrounding region (mainly Guangzhou) This has been evidenced time and time again on the distribution data on where the rhino horns were used - over 80% of it were used inside Hong Kong In fact one can go to Chinese medicinal shops in Hong Kong and find rhino horns display prominently, but in other places inside China, there is no rhino horn in sight as there is no market for it

It isn't just rhino horn, it's rare types of wood, tiger/lion skins and the skins of other endangered species, turtle shells, elephant tusks the list goes on and all of this to feed the Chinese taste for luxuries. There used to be a market for these products in the west and to an extent there still is. Conservationist groups have done a lot of work to shame people into not buying this stuff and for a while it was actually working. With the economic boom in China that changed. A while ago I watched an interview with an African ranger who commented that "Wherever the Chinese show up the animals disappear". The problem of poaching is bad enough without the Chinese über-class of nouveau rich luxury junkies making it worse and I don't give a hoot for arguments like there being a long and rich tradition of ivory carving in China that will die out if there is no ivory. If I have to choose between luxury obsessed people in China or the West getting their fix of ivory products or elephants surviving as a species I will pick elephants every time and the same goes for tigers, lions, turtles and less cuddly or less cute creatures like the short tailed albatross, 20 % of north american mussel species, the Ganges shark, the addax, pygmy three-toed sloth, the California condor, the Lord Howe Island stick-insect, the okapi, the European fresh water pearl mussel..... the list is so long it depresses me to think about it.

Poison the bastards

[MrL0G1C]

are revered for supposed medicinal qualities

Most materials will soak up another material of the right type afaik, so capture the rare rhino's and soak their horns in something poisonous.

Make anyone using rhino horn medicinally puke their guts up for a month, that'll teach the fuckers.

In fact, someone should take the confiscated rhino horn, poison them and then release them onto the market.

Re:Poison the bastards

[Viol8]

Sadly that probably is the only solution. But as soon as someone did it the usual bleeding hearts would crawl out from under their fetid rocks and be out on the streets protesting.

Re:Poison the bastards

[DigiShaman]

Yes, they already do that with ectoparasiticides and they're dyed pink. Once ground up, they can be identified at a boarder customs.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/a...

Re:Poison the bastards

[MrL0G1C]

But would they? To protest poisoning rhino horns is pretty much to support the people killing rhinos. I don't think the 'bleeding hearts' would protest much.

Re:Poison the bastards

[PPH]

Nobody complains that the ATF requires producers of (non beverage) ethanol to denature it and make all the hobos sick.

Supply chain injection

[Electricity Likes Me]

I'm curious how you'd actually inject these into the supply chain.

At the minimum it seems like you'd need some undercover work, and to be really effective the best way would probably be to catch and turn some of the actual dealers. Conversely, I suppose it wouldn't take more then 1 or 2 deals-cut in order to seriously undermine and devalue the entire trade.

Re:Supply chain injection

[LifesABeach]

It's called "Marketing."

This won't help.

[houghi]

The reason people use these horns is not a medical (technical) issue. It is a social issue. You can not solve a social problem with a technical solution.

It is like telling your future wife that the artificial diamond is identical to the blood diamond she wants. It doen't work that way.

Re:This won't help.

[LifesABeach]

I see a greater problem, you have chosen a life time mate that is already questioning your actions.

I doubt it because it would work BOTH ways

[argStyopa]

Whatever simple test they could fool by simply "mixing in dna" would likely then be spoofable the other way too: a vendor caught selling rhino horn could tell the authorities either "oh no, it's synthetic actually" or at least he THOUGHT it was. ...because the people who buy rhino horn today aren't doing it to own something that's LIKE rhino horn; they either believe some goofy bullshit it about it making their dicks hard or for some mystical "I want to have something that's forbidden" reason - in either case, 'fake' rhino horn wouldn't cut it anyway, and there will still remain the market for real rhino horn.

Re:I doubt it because it would work BOTH ways

[LifesABeach]

I'm reminded of the quote, "Move along, these are not the droids we're looking for."

So, just like synth diamonds have eliminated...

[Overzeetop]

This will work about as well as synthetic diamonds (which are actual, real diamonds) have collapsed the natural diamond market and eliminated the horrific practices which surround natural diamond mines in under developed areas of the world.

Re:So, just like synth diamonds have eliminated...

[Jason Levine]

Reading the comments, I've gone back and forth as to whether this would be effective and I think this about sums it up. There is demand for rhino horn and even if we flooded the market with fakes, people would know there are fakes and would demand the real thing. What would likely happen would be that any poorer folks would buy "cheap rhino horn" which is really the fake stuff being passed off as real. They might even know it is fake but wouldn't care as they wouldn't be able to afford the real stuff.

Meanwhile, the rich would pay more for verified real rhino horn. Perhaps this would mean that some of the rhino flesh is attached to the horn. Perhaps this means that the rhino's entire head is cut off. (Bonus: They get a rhino skull to hang in their homes along with their "horn pills".) Either way, authenticity is proven in some way while still keeping the entire trade black market.

We can make some efforts to save the rhinos, but one of the most effective measures would be for the Chinese people to stop using rhino horn. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Re:So, just like synth diamonds have eliminated...

[LifesABeach]

For a group of really smart people, one has to question the knowledge base they chose for this given result.

Re:Rhino horns don't even work!

[gbjbaanb]

and the pangolin, what's not used for trinkets or medicine is simply scoffed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/maga...

"They asked up to $1,500 (£1,000) a kilo. Asked why they were so expensive, one woman replied with no apparent shame: "Because they're rare and illegal."

My only hope here is that when the pagolins are all dead, the ants they used to eat in great quantities rise up and eat the vietnamese and chinese who put profit above ecology.

This is great

[Anonymous Coward]

The punchline is that the "counterfeiter" makes a profit, and the buyers get ripped off. So this doesn't just save the rhinos, although that's the important part. It rewards the good guys, punishes the bad guys, and saves the victims, all in one shot. Brilliant.

Re:This is great

[Rei]

Of course it saves the rhinos. You put 100 times more fake stuff on the market and the price for rhino horn collapses, meaning people stop hunting them.

The brilliant part is that this makes use of something that's normally a bad thing - China's extensive peddling in fakes - to achieve a good result. I doubt it'll stop the really high end of the market, the sort of people who would instruct their buyer to send what they buy sent off to a lab (I don't think some rhino DNA alone would fool a lab, surely it looks different under microscopic examination), but for the rest of the market, it's a neat idea.

Re:This is great

[ArcadeMan]

for the rest of the market, it's a neat idea.

You know what else is a pretty neat idea? Digital watches.

Do you want to enlarge your black market?

[Culture20]

Growing the market for rhino horn will only result in more poachers. Are the 3d printed horns going to be given to the poachers for free if they agree not to poach?

Re:Do you want to enlarge your black market?

[LifesABeach]

What!? Are you anti american? Sell the stuff to their competitors, which will force the average poacher to come over to buy from you, or go out of business.

Will it be realized?

[jandersen]

The company already mulls expanding its production principle to other, lucrative wild animal trades such as the claws of tigers and lions. Pembient is however a young company â" for all their ingenuity, will their ambitions to take on such a colossal black market be realized?

Are you crazy? Of course it will; the people who slaughter endangered animals like this aren't in it to provide their esteemed customers with a genuine article - they just want the money. They will jump at the opportunity to make a fast profit by cheating. Why endanger youself by poaching if you can just mix up some gunk in a printer?

Re:Will it be realized?

[LifesABeach]

People that buy this stuff may have a more sardonic solution to buying fake, even if its better and cheaper, than the real stuff; at real stuff prices.

Much simpler solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Get some horn, poison them with some sort of impotence drug, and release them to the market.

Re:Much simpler solution

[LifesABeach]

It is already natural by by-product in Rino horn. 3D printing something like Viagra into the mix would be a better product at a cheaper price with superior performace.

Anthropogenic selection

[srussia]

Just breed hornless rhinos.

Re:Anthropogenic selection

[LifesABeach]

Time would be against this issue. Every business tries to pay short term liabilities with long term assets fails. Rinos take up more space than 3D printers. And when was the last time one herd of a 3D printer the size of a large freezer charging at a person?

Variety?

[seven of five]

Pembient may want to consider producing a variety of rhino horns. I mean, if they make thousands of copies of just one, you could just take a picture of it and compare the ones you get against the photo.

Re: Rhino horns don't even work!

[WindBourne]

So these counterfeit will do the trick just as nicely. Right? And with them dumped on the market, the price should drop and the profit removed.

Just sell powdered horn

[gurps_npc]

Just sell powered horn. The majority of consumers don't do microscopic and/or dna tests. Just set up a shop in the right location, ship in a bunch of shredded antelope horn and label it Rhino horn. Have some guy in a white lab cloak stand by to swear it's the real deal.

Re: Just sell powdered horn

[LifesABeach]

I can think of something just as good, have the 3D printed product have a superior result using the same testing on 'natural' stuff. At a cheaper price, for a better procduct? Folks have a mass tendency to always purchase the cheaper product that is better. After a short while, who needs to even go out into the bush to deal with harvesting issues.

How about mixing in some cyanide as well

[pteddy]

to help damped demand.

What's next?

[ArhcAngel]

Will they be printing fake coffee beans that weren't pooped out of a Asian Palm Civet?

Re:What's next?

[LifesABeach]

I would humbly suggest the patenfing of this idea.

Will it fool customs officials?

[davidwr]

If customs officials can tell the real thing from the fake, traffickers will figure out how to do it as well.

If customs officials can't tell them apart then it will make prosecution much more difficult, especially if traffickers start claiming "honest officer, I thought it was fake, my customer specifically ordered this fake stuff, what do you mean it's real?"

Re:Will it fool customs officials?

[LifesABeach]

Who needs a trafficker when one can order it online, and get a better product, and faster, at a cheaper cost?

Re:Rhino horns don't even work!

[Joce640k]

How about we take this a bit further and embed a bit of Viagra and aspirin in them - make them actually work in the way people believe they should works (ie. hangover cures and erectile dysfunction).

We can also give them a pinkish tint so people can easily identify the 'good' ones (sign of quality - just like the blue color of Breaking Bad's meth).

After a while people will be demanding the artificial ones - problem solved!

Big Fauna = Doomed

[kenj123]

Personally I think big fauna is doomed anyway. Rino, Elephant, Tiger all take up too much space. Over the next 100-200 years Africa will be turned into a giant palm oil, soy, corn field, or just open pit mines and industrial waste. All we can do is freeze a few tissue samples for some future generations then stick a fork in it, its done. PS, keep this between us, this is kind of open secret that most people who need to know, already know. Don't tell any young people about this, they need a few years of naïve optimism.

Re:Big Fauna = Doomed

[LifesABeach]

Once gravatrons can be cheaply generated, then the location of ones home, business, or skate board will be matter of choice. 'Land' will become a word on a vocabulary test.

Re:Big Fauna = Doomed

[kenj123]

don't you need unobtanium to create gravatrons? probably the last bit of unobtanium will be under the last rino-elephant reserve in Africa. I wonder what will happen then. that might make a good movie plot.

Re:Big Fauna = Doomed

[LifesABeach]

Details man, details.

turn about is fair play?

[slew]

So after all this complaining about how counterfeit food and medicine from china is morally repugnant, we decide to turn the tables...

At least we are attempting to save the rhinos, I guess, but seems to me that it's a slippery slope to agree that flooding a market with counterfeit goods is actually a good idea...

Re:turn about is fair play?

[LifesABeach]

Not flooding the markets with counterfeit goods, but with goods that have a known superior quality. It's like buying Tata's Nano car and paying more for it than for a new 3D printed Shelby Cobra that is an exact working copy. The will come when a Rino comes up to someones back yard to eat grass, and it will be shoed away.

Re:turn about is fair play?

[slew]

Not flooding the markets with counterfeit goods, but with goods that have a known superior quality.

I'm all those folks collecting baseball cards, comic books and antique collectibles would have something to say about this attitude. Also, wasn't this similar to the rationale used to suppress labeling requirements for irradiated strawberries and GM foods (e.g., they were superior to their counterparts and otherwise nutritionally the same)?

Sometimes people just want what they want and feel deceived if they get something else (even if it is "superior" in some way).

Is This A Publicly Traded Company?

[LifesABeach]

Considering the advantages of filtering out the stuff that limits the usefulness of murdered animals, and offering a more refined product that is better than what nature can produce; the advantages are far greater than this colossal run on sentence.

Re:Chinese men seem to have penis problems

[LifesABeach]

Try explaining that to an adult with the imagenation of an 8 year old in culture that thinks, "if its good enough for my grand daddy, it's good enough for me." Go figure.

Re:Absurd idea

[LifesABeach]

Really? It's fraud to sell something better, and cheaper? I bet you also have a hattred for H1B heads earning an honest living.

Really?

[chilenexus]

Everyone knows the only real cure for those conditions is ground up poacher skull. And I heard dried and ground poacher penis cures the gay.

Wabbit season! Duck Season! Chinese Season! BLAM

[TiggertheMad]

Clearly the solution is to allow hunting of Chinese people to reduce their numbers to manageable levels. A species that is overabundant needs to to have its numbers greatly reduced to protect the environment. I'll alert Ted Nugent.

Fake? Who said anything about Fake?

[NReitzel]

Let us be just a little bit realistic here.

The stuff the company aims to produce is not fake rhino-horn, after all it has rhino DNA in it. And the matrix is keratin, which if memory serves me at all is what rhino horns grow from.

So, rather than bandy about that awful word, "Fake", let us elevate this issue and note that this company is making engineered rhino horn.

Last I heard, people in China (and USA and India and UK and...) buy Real Krab (or whatever the local name is), which is engineered from Real Surimi and crab flavors.

The quality control will be far higher than on the "natural" product, and it will work just as well.

More power to them.

Re:Absurd idea

[JesseMcDonald]

Really? It's fraud to sell something better, and cheaper?

Regardless of how much "better" or "cheaper" your product might be, it's fraudulent to make claims about it which aren't true—including labeling it as "rhino horn" when it didn't actually come from a rhino.

Re:FDA, truth in labeling laws

[KGIII]

If you label your heroin (for sale - not your personal stash) as 80% pure and sell it then you are not committing a crime greater than selling a schedule 3 drug. This is because the FDA is not in control - it is already an illegal substance. They do not regulate it for purity, they regulate it for various uses. I suspect China is similar in this.

Re:Rhino horns don't even work!

[cwsumner]

How about we take this a bit further and embed a bit of Viagra and aspirin in them - make them actually work in the way people believe they should works (ie. hangover cures and erectile dysfunction). ...

This could actually work. You should send it to the company!
The smuglers might actually start buying the simulated horn directly, and stop bothering the real rino'.

Re:The next Jurassic park movie

[nguyenvanhai143]

http://www.kimtoanthang.vn/ton...