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The Presidential Candidate With a Plan To Run the US On 100% Clean Energy

merbs writes: Thus far, no other candidate has said they're going to make climate change their top priority. Martin O'Malley has not only done that, but he has outlined a plan that would enact emissions reductions in line with what scientists say is necessary to slow global climate change—worldwide emissions reductions of 40-70 percent by 2050. He's the only candidate to do that, too. His plan would phase out fossil-fueled power plants altogether, by midcentury.

19 of 308 comments (clear)

  1. If it doesn't include nuclear... by NotDrWho · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Then it's not a plan. It's just a bullshit pipe dream that he's selling you for your vote.

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    1. Re:If it doesn't include nuclear... by Beck_Neard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've got nothing against nuclear. It can play an important role in the energy economics of the future. But pro-nuke nuts really need to get a grip. In the real world, and not in the fantasy world that they imagine, nuclear is extremely expensive; far more expensive than wind or solar, on average. Some people fudge their figures in various ways (not taking into account decommissioning costs and waste handling costs, etc.) to make it look like it isn't, though.

      Nuclear makes sense in places where wind, solar, and hydroelectric aren't available or are expensive for the quantity of power needed. For instance, near some dense population centers. But if you look at the way energy technology is going, we don't really need nuclear to transition away from fossil fuels. Sure, it might help, but we can do without it if needed. Solar is a minor player now, but it's growing fast. In the future solar could very well provide us with all the power we're ever going to need and more. Actually, it's even possible there's going to be a huge surplus of power.

      --
      A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
  2. Nuclear? by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    His Op-Ed doesn't mention nuclear even once. Going full renewable in 35 years is one hell of a goal to shoot for. We have all the renewable energy we will ever need available but we don't currently have any way to store it in a grid scale type of way - and he only mentions storage once.

    Nuclear isn't clean by any stretch, but it is 'clean air' which is what we probably need most right now. I'd love to see full renewable but a more reasonable plan would be nuclear in the short (30-50) year term while renewable/storage becomes grid capable.

    --
    People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    1. Re:Nuclear? by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thanks to Tesla among others we're getting closer. There are a number of strategies under active development including battery, flywheel, thermal, and hydro conversion storage. It's an engineering problem. We simply need sufficient economic motivation to solve it.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    2. Re:Nuclear? by Todd+Palin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not sure what you mean here. "can process nuclear waste"? To the best of my knowledge nearly all of the waste of commercial power reactors is sitting on site in vast pools of water. It hasn't been processed, and I'm not aware of imminent plans to process it. So, really, it seems that there are some problems that are preventing the processing. Maybe in theory we can process it, but in reality it isn't happening. This is still a big barrier to widespread construction of new nuclear plants.

    3. Re:Nuclear? by Creepy · · Score: 1, Insightful

      We know how to build reactors that burn nearly all nuclear waste but Democrats killed that program because they were too ignorant to understand that the design required passive safety and even succeeded in testing a worse-than-Fukushima scenario The ONLY valid concern they had was proliferation risk, and as the Russians have proven at Beloyarsk, a once through design without reprocessing still burns 70% of the fuel (you can then reprocess it at a secure site), MUCH higher than the 5% at best for current reactors and typically .7-1%. Integral Fast Reactors cost quite a bit more to build, but you more than make up for that with fuel efficiency.

      There also has been renewed interest in stuff like LFTR and the like (I'm more a fan of Terrestrial's Uranium version - single fluid 30 year run before recycling - this was also proposed for the MSRE). The anti-nuclear people complain that leaves long lived actinides, but you can separate these and add them back into the fuel for the next 30 year run. The anti-nuclear folk then complain that you still have some highly radioactive fission materials, and I say yeah - and the worst of them decay to background radiation levels in 300 years, not millions. I'm also very curious about the skunk-works version of fusion. Tokamak design was never realistic and far too expensive.

    4. Re:Nuclear? by Todd+Palin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe it is "social problems", but that doesn't make it any less real. Fukishima, Three Mile Island, Chernoble, and Fermi accidents have all created a widespread mistrust of the nuclear industry's assurances that nuclear power is safe. Realistically, this "social issue" isn't going away just because some engineers wish it would. The nuclear overlords have screwed up big time in the risk management of these facilities, and there likely have been other screw-ups that didn't turn out so badly. It may be mostly a social issue, but it is a problem that isn't going away soon.

    5. Re:Nuclear? by blue9steel · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You're right. People don't understand numbers. The flashy stories say that nuclear power is doom incarnate but when you look at the statistics it's better by nearly every measure. I agree that people aren't likely to change their minds on this issue despite the fact that coal plants are worse in nearly every way.

    6. Re:Nuclear? by TapeCutter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      but we don't currently have any way to store it in a grid scale type of way

      This is FUD spread by the coal industry, they are trying to make you believe "base load" does not need batteries. The truth is that coal and nuclear already have a network of giant batteries called "hydroelectric dams", that they recharge during off peak times when the plant is generating too much electricity. They need dams and gas fired turbines today because their output curve is flat whereas the demand curve of a city is not. In fact all forms of large scale generation need "batteries" for the simple fact that none of them have a supply curve that comes close to matching the demand curve, without fast switching "batteries" such as hydro a grid simply won't work.

      Scale: Every coal plant in use today was built in my lifetime, many have been built and rebuilt. If someone had predicted/planned that rate of expansion back in 1960 people would have told them they were nuts. Solar and wind is cheaper than nuclear and in many places on par with coal, extrapolating the current trend in costs, renewables will be significantly cheaper than coal in the next 3-5yrs (coal itself is significantly cheaper than nukes). India is in the process of providing 400m people with electricity (and toilets), they are doing it with renewables because it is cheaper than importing coal from my country (Australia).

      There's no economic or technical reason that the current coal infrastructure cannot be replaced with renewables in the next few decades, we don't need better battery tech to get it done, we don't huge subsidies, we don't need resources from hostile nations, and in most locations we don't need (expensive) nukes, we just need the political will to force the electricity industry to clean up it's act, legally define (and require) "clean energy", phase in the punishment for non-compliance in a predictable and achievable timetable then let the engineers within the energy companies sort out the practicalities of implementing it. I'm advocating regulatory "force" here because their 150yr track record of fighting reasonable environmental law strongly indicates they won't do it voluntarily.

      Off course if you want to eliminate the grid altogether, then you will need better battery tech.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  3. Re:Phase out fossil-fueled power plants by midcent by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Thus far, no other candidate has said they're going to make climate change their top priority.

    Ever notice how politicians' plans are always far out in the future? Sure, 35 years is within the scope of of most of our lives, but usually they are well past the time that the politicians proposing them will be around to face the consequences. We hear the same thing all the time about balancing the budget and paying down the deficit ever since Reagan, but neither one has happened yet.

    Amen to that.

    If we are gonna claim to be serious about cutting emissions, France has already proven the technology to do so has already existed for a long time. We can start funding the deployment of nuclear power on a large scale now. The technology all existed to transition years ago already when France did it and used it to this day to sell energy to the rest of Europe.

    Meandering mouth service to researching solar or wind or some other solution isn't bad per se, but it is absolutely inadequate to stop there. There are real concrete actions that can be taken today by anyone that is truly motivated and convinced of the importance to do so.

  4. Yeah, well .... by King_TJ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Many of us in Maryland know this character ALL too well already. Typical liberal "tax and spend" agenda is what you can expect from him. "We're the government and we know what's best for you."

    Thanks, but no thanks.

    Look, "climate change" may be the hot discussion topic right now - but it's crazy thinking we can put a serious dent in it and "turn it around" simply by shutting down a bunch of our nation's power generation plants! (Right now, we're finally coming around in energy self-sufficiency, largely because of the discovery of large natural gas and shale oil deposits. Folks like O'Malley would discard all of this as "bad fossil fuels", even though much of the rest of the world will keep on using fossil fuel energy sources anyway. That means we're at a big economic disadvantage. Will be far cheaper to get things done in the nations that have lower cost energy to get them done for us -- so leads to more outsourcing of manufacturing and jobs, not to mention job loss in our country for people in the business of gathering, processing and selling those forms of energy.)

    Fossil fuel usage will decline as better alternatives become economically viable. (Who wouldn't rather get "free energy" from the wind, the natural flow of water, or the sun shining down on us?) Those options are being worked on by lots of people and we're putting them into use as fast as it makes economic sense to do so. But you can't just "legislate them into exclusive usage" and pretend that's a problem solver! Whenever you're legally FORCED to use a technology that doesn't make good economic sense, you just increase the cost of living, destroy job availability and drive people to find other places in the world where alternatives are still allowed.

    Frankly, I think nuclear power is still the obvious best option for large scale centralized power generation -- but the type of reactors needed to do it safely are VERY costly to construct and still have to overcome a lot of negativity from "OMG, nuclear! It's gonna kill us all!" types who don't understand the technology very well. Again, it's something that will naturally come with time (and as given fossil fuels become scarce enough to run their price up enough to make these alternatives look better).

    1. Re:Yeah, well .... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Who wouldn't rather get "free energy" from the wind, the natural flow of water, or the sun shining down on us?

      Who indeed.

      http://priceofoil.org/fossil-f...

      http://www.petrostrategies.org...

      https://www.opensecrets.org/po...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Yeah, well .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would rather have a "tax and spend" liberal, than a "cut tax and spend more" conservative.

  5. Re:Phase out fossil-fueled power plants by midcent by JWW · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Followed the link, searched for nuclear, didn't find it in the story. Closed the page.

    If you are espousing 0 emission energy in the next 35 years, and you don't mention nuclear as a necessary component, then you are lying.

  6. Re:That makes it easy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    and down-modding (just watch the fate of this post),

    A prediction that one's own post will be downmodded only ever appears in a post that, on its own (lack of) merit independently of said prediction, deserves to be downmodded.

  7. Re:Phase out fossil-fueled power plants by midcent by robot256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I heartily support the construction of all nuclear plants that have an competitive lifecycle cost. I'm sure they will a fill a niche in the market that the currently endless flood of solar, wind, and grid-storage bids at a quarter the cost cannot possibly fill.

    Sarcasm aside, take a look at some of the recent studies showing how to decarbonize electricity production in the next 20 to 40 years with no new research, and coincidentally, very little new nuclear capacity. The ONLY barriers are social and political--even now the economics are so compelling that every call for projects solicits more than regulators and utilities want to accept. In another 2-5 years, battery tech will invalidate every last excuse they have been using to discourage wind and solar, and the fuel-free future will finally take off.

  8. Re:"Clean Energy Candidate" by OutSourcingIsTreason · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ooh, an economy alarmist bullshitter.

    Before the Civil War they said freeing the slaves would ruin the economy. The US had to free them because it was a moral imperative. The war cost us 5% of the US population in casualties. The sum total of the monetary value of all slaves at the start of the civil war was roughly one trillion dollars in today's dollars. The slaves were freed and the US became the world's greatest economic power as a result.

    Fast forward to today. The oligarchic elites (the Koch brothers and other greedy billionaires) control roughly fourteen trillion dollars in fossil fuels. In order to monetize their investment they need to suck it out of the earth and burn it. The resulting pollution would kill at least millions, if not render the entire planet uninhabitable. There is a moral imperative to not do that.

    If one trillion dollars was sufficient to justify killing or wounding 5% of all Americans, I shudder to think how many people the Koch brothers and their friends are willing to kill or wound for fourteen trillion dollars.

    Our economy was based on slave labor. We emancipated the slaves, and surprise! We prospered anyway. Now our economy is based on generating poison gas from fossil fuels. When we stop burning fossil fuels, I predict we'll prosper anyway. Maybe not the Koch brothers. Oh boo-hoo.

    --
    "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Mussolini
  9. Re:"Clean Energy Candidate" by ChrisMaple · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Amazing. Glossing over facts, ignoring the difference between disproven hypotheses and modern economic theory. Baldly dishonest claims about the effects of petroleum as a fuel.

    Our economy was not based on slave labor. The North won the war largely because its non-slave economy was stronger. The South could have had an economy stronger than it was if it had just slowly transformed into a market economy (because free labor is more productive than slave.) (Historically not possible, due to culture and laws of slave states.)

    Now our economy is based on generating poison gas from fossil fuels.

    That is just plain dishonest. Our economy is enhanced by, not based on, energy production from fossil fuels. The primary byproducts are carbon dioxide and water, neither of which is a poison at the concentrations at which they are currently generated. You are a liar, and you know it.

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  10. Re:Phase out fossil-fueled power plants by midcent by jbengt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Of course that should all still be dwarfed by the social security budget, and in that, not just social security to elderly.

    Actually, until very recently, the Social Security budget was running in the black and contributing to the ability of the US government to spend. Unfortunately, all of the Social Security surplus was invested, in accordance with the law, in US Treasury bonds, and those debts were not counted as part of the federal budget deficits. So the problem is not in the Social Security budget, per se, but in Congress having already spent all of the Social Security surpluses of the past.