Surveillance Court: NSA Can Resume Bulk Surveillance

An anonymous reader writes: We all celebrated back in May when a federal court ruled the NSA's phone surveillance illegal, and again at the beginning of June, when the Patriot Act expired, ending authorization for that surveillance. Unfortunately, the NY Times now reports on a ruling from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which concluded that the NSA may temporarily resume bulk collection of metadata about U.S. citizens's phone calls. From the article: "In a 26-page opinion (PDF) made public on Tuesday, Judge Michael W. Mosman of the surveillance court rejected the challenge by FreedomWorks, which was represented by a former Virginia attorney general, Ken Cuccinelli, a Republican. And Judge Mosman said that the Second Circuit was wrong, too. 'Second Circuit rulings are not binding' on the surveillance court, he wrote, 'and this court respectfully disagrees with that court's analysis, especially in view of the intervening enactment of the U.S.A. Freedom Act.' When the Second Circuit issued its ruling that the program was illegal, it did not issue any injunction ordering the program halted, saying that it would be prudent to see what Congress did as Section 215 neared its June 1 expiration."

Comments

The founding documents present a path...

[msauve]

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, â" That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"

Re:The founding documents present a path...

[zenlessyank]

Unfortunately, I am too poor to make the trip to Washington D.C. to help replace the government. I am also unarmed. My vote is weightless, as it cannot fall on either side of the fence given. I hear so much grumbling in the wind. I have heard it since the '70s. 40+ years later, NOTHING. Riots where people destroy their own neighborhoods is not what I want to sign up for. Seems if say, like 60,000,000 of us show up in Washington D.C. then maybe we can rip out the old fence and put up a new one with sides that mean something. Slavery is alive and well in the USA. We are slaves to our own greed. And selfishness. And fear. And hate. And Government. And the Government Minded. But I believe these are treasonous words in this police state, and I fear I may end up in Gitmo. SO... I retract all that was previously stated and label this for "entertainment purposes only".

Re:The founding documents present a path...

[cayenne8]

What is this?

"One Court to Rule them ALL?"

And here we were thinking the Supreme Court was maybe throwing a bit too much weight around making laws up.

I guess SCOTUS is just not secret enough, and FISA is.....

Re:The founding documents present a path...

[Anonymous Coward]

No it is not. People on slashdot like to post stuff like this as if it is even remotely likely.

The majority of the American people are sufficiently well-off that there is no way in hell they are going to risk their lives rebelling against the government. It doesn't matter how egregiously the government betrays us...so long as we live in relative comfort we will accept it and come back for more.

I suspect that the most defiant act you are taking is to post derisive comments on slashdot, and possibly download a few files in violation of copyright law. Most of the "revolutionaries" in America are right there with you, buddy.

Re:The founding documents present a path...

[lhowaf]

I don't think the Declaration of Independence is considered a founding document. More of an uncoupling document. The problem isn't the Constitution - it's the asshats we keep sending to Congress.

Re:The founding documents present a path...

[MobSwatter]

No it is not. People on slashdot like to post stuff like this as if it is even remotely likely.

The majority of the American people are sufficiently well-off that there is no way in hell they are going to risk their lives rebelling against the government. It doesn't matter how egregiously the government betrays us...so long as we live in relative comfort we will accept it and come back for more.

I suspect that the most defiant act you are taking is to post derisive comments on slashdot, and possibly download a few files in violation of copyright law. Most of the "revolutionaries" in America are right there with you, buddy.

Maybe you are making reference to the 1%? What of the undocumented unemployment rates? Betrays us? They betray themselves as they print money every six months just to keep the governments doors open. The more I compare what I hear in the US with what I hear from Putin, the more I make the distinction that the voice of reason is over there and though I don't agree with the way he is trying to rebuild the USSR involving the Ukraine, I understand why he is doing it, and his haste in doing so. When it comes to being communist I'd have to say the way things have panned out in the US, the shoe is clearly on the other foot. At the time of the fall of the USSR, they faced the same things the US is facing now and rather than attack their own people they shut down their government, this is a clear difference between their government and this one. These are the things that I drew the conclusion to offer him what my family was working on pre 1964. Even if there were to be regime change in this country, there is no way to reverse the damage done to it, and what that damage will result in.

Re:The founding documents present a path...

[Demonoid-Penguin]

The majority of the American people are sufficiently well-off that there is no way in hell they are going to risk their lives rebelling against the government. [...]

Lives? I disagree - though not seriously. Let me try:-

The majority of people living in the countries represented by FiveEyes believe they are millionaires in waiting. They blame:-

• "illegal immigrants" (people fleeing the countries they are at war with - who now work the jobs they are too good to do)
• "disruptive technology" (business that threatens the businesses that profit from the many wars their countries are involved in - run by liberals and others that understand things as a result of effort they're too lazy to exert)
• "moral degeneracy" (anyone that don't toe the line they plant their noses on hoping to impress the powers that be)
• the "welfare state" (that which seeks to redress the imbalance that "they" hope will one day soon be unbalanced in their favor - "that single mother lives in government housing with her four kids on almost $1000 pw - I wish I got that much to watch tv all day")

for the fact that they are not already millionaires.

What they want is to be conspicuous millionaires (spend like there is no tomorrow), and celebrities (worshiped like they worship other celebrities). They want the fruits of technology and instant knowledge without effort. Holidays in foreign climes where life is cheap, financed by credit serviced by revenue from winnings and speculation guided by others. Angry, scared (of losing what they don't have), and insane (as a consequence of believing in diametrically opposing impossible things) they cower like whipped dogs before the same authority they wish to be.

No surprise then that most retreat to worship at the altars of entertainment, superstition, or conservatism - the three pillars of denial.

So much typing. It should be easier (someone else do it for me).

Now rise up and rebel you, you, - other people. Some one (else) needs to kick some arse.

Re:The founding documents present a path...

[Demonoid-Penguin]

Good luck getting people to "abolish" this. I don't exactly know too many people willing to literally assault government offices, [...]

When the citizens of a country attack the citizens of the same country peace and enlightenment won't be the result. Replacing one corrupt government for failure to look after your interest is how likely to result in another government that will look after your interests?

Repeat after me - "I will not outsource my problems and expect the ability to blame others is acting responsible in anyway". People will always lie to you - the problem is not the lying it's the failure to check facts. If history shows anything it's that shooting your own people (and that includes the police and the army) does not improve anything for the majority.

The reason governments abuse power is because they can - regardless of the political model or party, they will. Periodic cleansing is a requirement - do it via the ballot box but that process is meaningless unless you think a little harder and realise that the solution is meaningless unless you reduce the scope of government power asking less of the government.

Demanding either by show of force, signatures on pieces of dead tree, or marches does nothing (good) of lasting effect. Instead of demanding, stop asking. Don't ask for employment stimulus or better roads, or better education. Do it yourself.

History also show that ain't gonna happen either - you'll all follow the next person that promises to lead you to a better life (if you lay down your lives) or provide you with better representation (if you'll just back their candidacy). Outsource responsibility, outsource responsibility, rinse and repeat. The cycle of rise of civilization followed by overthrow by the stupid, the greedy, and the poor - who destroy that which they wish to inherit, leaving future generations to wonder who built that great civilization now lying in ruins - and why did they build it in the middle of the desert when now only illiterate sheep and goat herders wander.

Wake me up when you all plan on breaking the cycle of history. Until then doing the same old shit over and over is unlikely to result in a different outcome

Hint, the North didn't liberate the slaves of the South - they now work the LSP, formerly the Angola Plantation, run by descendants of the original "freeman" - and kept populated by the descendants of the original rollers - now judges and police. Lest that sound too focused on the USA - the situation is little different in any of the FiveEyes countries (different dog, same leg action). The "elected" leader of the Eureka Stockade joined parliament and sold out his supporters, aborigines, Kanacks, the Irish, etc, etc, and the Scots still occupy the same economic positions they did when every Australian "revolution" fizzled (didn't the USA used to have a "Revolution" day??).

Of course it [insert label for those on the shitty end of the stick here] is "their" fault. Poverty is a choice right?

Replacing a judge with another judge is just playing a game where those with power write the rules (and some of them make all those guns).

Re:The founding documents present a path...

[StikyPad]

Soo, you want to replace a democratically elected government because you disagree with the electorate? Because your individual vote didn't outweigh all of theirs? How is that better? That sounds worse to me.

Keep in mind, I'm on the side of strong civil liberties, but I don't think that can be accomplished through tyranny. If people know they're right, and they're dedicated to making change, and convince others, then change can happen. See the decriminalization of marijuana as one of the most recent examples. Or gay marriage. It may take a generation, or even two, but it happens. As Churchill said, America always does the right thing -- after trying everything else first.

This is more about expectations. It seems that you expect things to change quickly and decisively just because you see them a certain way. That expectation seems unreasonable to me, even if I agree with the way you see things. Maybe I will have to deal with intrusive government surveillance for the rest of my life, but prior generations have had to endure worse. I'll do what I can to change minds and votes, but I don't expect it to happen overnight. That's not how society works.

Re:The founding documents present a path...

[sjames]

Or the NSA compiled a very special Dossier.

Congress made it clear they did not authorize bulk surveillance by the NSA.

Re:The founding documents present a path...

[sjames]

I doubt there will be outright rebellion at this point, but a lot of lesser rebellions will take place. Even some corporations are deliberately messing with the NSA these days. Respect for federal authorities and police at all levels is falling fast. No armed insurrection or anything, just a bunch of "We destroy all records every 24 hours", "Gee officer, I didn't see anything", "Smile for the camera officers", and "the next version will feature built in encryption".

Re:The founding documents present a path...

[pla]

Soo, you want to replace a democratically elected government because you disagree with the electorate?

Did you even read TFS? The electorate fully agrees with him. Congress mostly agrees with him. The 2nd circuit agrees with him.

...And yet, we still have these asshats in FISA blatantly saying "to hell with all of the above, fuck 'em even harder, NSA!".

Yeah, we have a problem here. And the "democratically elected government" ain't it.

First Post?

[Patent Lover]

Hello, Mr. NSA? Hello?

LOL, wut???

[NoNonAlphaCharsHere]

Like they ever stopped?

Law in America

[Dan East]

Law in 21st century America: appeal until you find a court with a judge willing to (re)interpret law in your favor. Happening almost every day lately.

Knew it was too good to be true.

[amxcoder]

I called it back in May! The government doesn't want to get rid of their shiny new toy, they spent too much money on it, and it gives them too much power to just let it die.

They're basically stating their new unofficial motto is "You can have my surveillance powers when you pry it from my cold dead hand!".

Re:Knew it was too good to be true.

[Fire_Wraith]

The Surveillance Court (the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the one that does the FISA stuff) is supposed to be one of the checks on the various agencies, and perform relevant oversight/provide rulings. Assuming that we believe that the current system has failed to properly restrain those agencies from doing things they shouldn't, it really should come as no surprise that the Court continues to rubberstamp the same stuff they approved before.

One other interesting note - all the judges on the FISC are solely appointed by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, without any confirmation or oversight by Congress required. I don't know if all of the current judges were picked by John Roberts or not, but considering that every Chief Justice since the act of Congress that created it in 1978 has been a conservative (Republican), that may tell you something about the mindset of the FISC. It's certainly not a place to find diverse opinions.

Re:Knew it was too good to be true.

[dunkindave]

One other interesting note - all the judges on the FISC are solely appointed by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, without any confirmation or oversight by Congress required.

While Congress does not get any oversight of the appointing process itself, the Chief Justice can only appoint the judges from the pool of US District Court Judges. This means the judges on the FISA Court were first nominated by the President to become District Court Judges, and then confimed by the Senate, so there was some congressional oversight in terms of who could be appointed.

I don't know if all of the current judges were picked by John Roberts or not, ...

The FISA judges serve for seven years, and Roberts has been the Chief Justice since 2005, so yes, he picked all of the current judges.

Re: Above Congress?

[bill_mcgonigle]

not sure if serious ... CIA people have been in the Whitehouse since 1980, out in the open (it's debatable before then). They spy on Congress, have their own secret kangaroo courts, and carry out overseas executions all admittedly. One could suppose that there's nothing worse behind closed doors but that would be generous towards spies. Who doesn't really think they're blackmailing anybody in Congress or other high elected office?

Politics remains the entertainment arm of the military-industrial complex. After all, people would be mildly non-plussed to learn that they were secretly ruled by spooks and banksters.

Re: Above Congress?

[TheCarp]

> Politics remains the entertainment arm of the military-industrial complex. After all, people would be
> mildly non-plussed to learn that they were secretly ruled by spooks and banksters.

It is all Bread and Circuses. The whole system is really great in a way. We have a diffuse democracy at all the low levels, feeding up in a pyramid scheme to a few people at the top. The total resources of 300 million people is taxed and at the disposal of under 1000 elected people...

You almost couldn't ask for a better situation for playing global games for profit.

Re: Above Congress?

[msauve]

"The total resources of 300 million people is taxed and at the disposal of under 1000 elected people..."

...at the Federal level.

And that's the fundamental problem - the government which should have the most influence, and over which the electorate should have the most control, should start at the local level.

We're supposed to be the United States, but the Feds have used the supremacy clause to take over almost everything with real significance, ignoring the 9th and 10th Amendments, which are treated as an inconvenient speed bump.

IMHO, the biggest problem with the Constitution is that the Supremes should really be under the direct control of the States, instead of the Feds deciding what the Feds can do.

Corruption is it's own reward

[Anonymous Coward]

Did anyone actually expect the government to stop?

Re:Corruption is it's own reward

[cfalcon]

It will take it being a serious campaign issue at the federal level for it to stop- and that's just the first step. Every toll road has a toll for X years. Then after X years... it keeps the toll. Every time, no one can turn the tap off. As a nation, we voted in a guy who was gonna close gitmo. 8 years later, still gitmo. As long as the red and blue teams can keep dangling the threat of losing personal freedom if the OTHER team gets in, it's essentially impossible to get policy level things changed.

Re: Above Congress?

[ubeatha]

I' think you're very close with that idea but I'd replace military industrial complex with corporatism. The same corporatism that inhibits change on climate issues, industrial imprisonment, campaign finance, banking reform, etc. There was a time when we could equate what was good for our corporations as good for our countries but this time has passed. We need to stop being distracted by media chaff and start acting in the interest of our communities and individuals.

Re:Turn it on them

[BlueStrat]

Surely it wouldn't be beyond the collective wit of the internet to set up a parallel surveillance system targeting judges, politicians and others involved in dismantling these freedoms. After a couple of months of having their every private movement made public I suspect they'd change their outlook.

Quite a while back I posted a comment suggesting a smartphone application that allows people to take a snapshot of a government official/bureaucrat/judge/LEO/agent as well as officials/employees of NSA/NRO/CIA/etc private contractors and upload it and location/time and other relevant data to a website in a non-5-eyes nation where facial recognition and data-mining software could analyze it and make that information and analysis publicly available. Track all their travel, associations, purchases, everything possible.

Strat