Slashdot Mirror


Depression: The Secret Struggle Startup Founders Won't Talk About

mattydread23 writes: In May, Cambrian Genomics CEO Austen Heinz committed suicide. The news stunned friends and family, and sparked a conversation about the growing problem of depression among startup founders. Some estimates say 30% of startup founders suffer from depression, but many are reluctant to talk about their struggle for fear of alienating investors and employees. This feature by Business Insider includes conversations with a friend of Heinz, plus many investors and other startup founders who are starting to talk about the problem and figure out how to make things better.

9 of 184 comments (clear)

  1. Re:LOL by Midnight_Falcon · · Score: 5, Insightful
    As someone who lives in San Francisco and is around these type of people, yes, they are doing far better financially. Many of them even lose touch with folks earning average amounts. They ask me why I still live in a one bedroom apartment, and then I inform them the average of $50k/year in rent is well more than half most engineers' post-tax income; and they still don't seem to understand.

    The culture of Silicon Valley and California in general is to sound positive all the time and avoid the negative -- people would much rather say nothing or offer platitudes than say "no". This forms part of the problem leading to depression -- everyone is "fake" and say things for political reasons, constantly on social networking talking up their accomplishments and that of their company. Of course, most of it is smoke and mirrors. Also the tech scene can be very pretentious and it takes a lot to "keep up with the Joneses" and stay in the social circles they prize. It becomes too much for many and they become depressed and fade away, replaced at their companies by the VC board. And some willing 20-something then comes and tries to fill their shoes and the cycle repeats.

    No one wants to hire a depressed person. No one wants to go on dates with a depressed person (well, at least not many people -- negative/depressed dating site profiles don't get many replies). So, they conceal it until they break with full knowledge that when they break, they'll simply be replaced or their company will simply fail.

  2. So what by Etherwalk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seriously, if you have enough cash and connections to even think about starting a company, or even doing one of these new-fangled "startups", then you're better off than 95% of the country and better of than 99% of the world.

    So what? You still have a problem to deal with. Doesn't matter if you're fortunate or driven or whatever to be in the position with the skill-set to drive a startup.

    In serious circles (C-level employees, attorneys, doctors, academic faculty, anyone with a security clearance) psychological treatment is still heavily stigmatized. That's dumb. Psychological treatment should just be a fact of life--someone's getting treatment, that should be fine. If it's not, you encourage them not to seek treatment, in which case you have people with *untreated* psychological problems in positions of power.

    If you have any pull in your org, you should be advocating for making these things okay. Not as a top priority, but as a significant one.

    1. Re:So what by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It isn't a psychological condition, but my son was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome/High Functioning Autism. Since the diagnosis (aka knowing what we're dealing with and not just taking random actions hoping something works), we've made a lot of progress dealing with my son's behaviors and helping him be a more effective student in school. (He's crazy smart so before supports he wound up "dropping down" to normal. Now he's getting high 90's in almost all his classes.)

      Despite all of this, my father keeps insisting that this is something he'll grow out of (you don't grow out of Autism), or that he doesn't really have it because he had a good accomplishment (no, going whitewater rafting doesn't mean you've been cured of Autism). My parents get even more defensive when I bring up that I think I'm an undiagnosed Aspie. (It wasn't diagnosed when I was young and all the signs fit how I've been for as long as I can remember.) They act as though my claiming that I am Autistic is an insult directed at them. (If anything, it's a testament to their parenting that I turned out well despite the lack of a proper diagnosis/supports.)

      I'm sure people who deal with depression or other psychological issues encounter similar people. There are just some folks who think that just because it's a psychological issue, it's "all in your mind" and you can just try harder and make it go away. Suffer from depression? Just be happy! Having an anxiety attack? Just be calm! Do you have OCD? Just let it go. And if you get treatment for any of this stuff, these people will act as though you're weak for seeking help and not just taking it on alone. In truth, though, trying to take it on alone can be the worst thing to do. Get help. Get as much help as you need. Get professional help and help from family and friends. Ignore those people who try to act like you're just making it all up and can overcome it by just deciding not to have that condition. Those people should be tuned out and interacted with as little as possible.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  3. Depression? by slashmydots · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Depression? Who has time for that?! I've got customers out the door, tax forms to do, end of month accounting, interviews. You'll have to schedule depression with my secretary. Mornings are kinda tight for me though.

  4. Quite understandable. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Interesting
    These people bet their lives on a very risky venture. They must have higher than normal anxiety. It is only natural. Most of the startups fail. A few succeed spectacularly and a few more give non trivial returns. But majority of them face the prospect of closing shop and getting into the daily grind, but five or ten years behind their batch mates. It would be depressing.

    Also 7% being depressed in general population is definitely an underestimate. Till Obamacare came along some 40 million Americans had no access to healthcare. (Now that number is believed to be 25 million). Among the rest mental health screening is not covered for most of the lower end plans. Further given the taboo associated with mental illness even those with access do not get checked for depression. It is possible I myself would be diagnosed with depression, if I give the shrinks half a chance. Tech founders typically have enough resources to make it to college. They would get tested more than general population.

    I think depression is more prevalent than assumed. And logically there are lots of reasons why most people, young ones more than others, should be depressed.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  5. Bad science? by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What percentage of people who begin startups have a history of depression?

    I know that some years ago a doctor quizzed me about depression.

    • GP "Do you ever get depressed?"
    • Me "Well... yes, sometimes" "Isn't that normal?"

      GP "It's not healthy" "Do you ever feel sad about events outside of your control?"

      Me "For instance?"

      GP. "Do events in other countries ever make you feel sad?"

      Me "Yes" "Seems normal to me that knowing other people are suffering doesn't make me happy"

    The GP then tried to prescribe me Xanax - which just made me feel depressed (no - I never took Xanax). So I have a history of depression (there's more than that incident - I do have "black days" where I want to stay in bed and avoid the world). Whether that's serious or normal doesn't change the fact that I've started a number of successful new businesses, and as part of the process I've often neglected my diet, been extremely stressed, and suffered from extreme lack of sleep. Others with similar business history report the same thing - periods of optimism, energy and the feeling that the brain (and the mouth) are at their optimum, followed by periods when I get words wrong, struggle to get out of bed, feel mentally sluggish, and have difficulty believing things will "go well".
    Clearly I haven't committed suicide, but was it the startups that caused the "depression" - or the "side-effects" of "depression" ("extreme" optimism and "energy") that "impelled" the desire to startup a new business venture?

    My "suspicion" is that starting any new business involves mixed emotions. Losses loom larger than gains - and despite initial optimism there will always be periods of doubt. It kind of balances out, no ups without downs.

    Anything new involves risks - and to many the risks appear larger as the involvement shifts from dipping your toes to taking a plunge. Terms like "bi-polar" and "manic" get bandied about when describing people who are successful at taking risks but I've seen little to show that's a result of starting a new/novel venture. Perhaps I'm too depressed to look in the right places?

    Note: after the first couple of experiences the process is much easier to deal with as you can look back on previous occasions when it felt like the sun would never shine again - and know that good things, while often hard to imagine - are just as likely outcomes as the bad things that are much easier to imagine. That seems normal to me.

  6. Depression is not self pity by TapeCutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Would you say a financially comfortable american with terminal cancer is 'better off' than 99% of the world? - Of course not. Same thing with depression, depression is not self pity, it is a mental illness that has fuck all to do with the size of your wallet. As Robin Williams demonstrated, sufferers are unable to endure living even when swimming in money.

    I'm not having a go at you personally, most people who don't understand depression have your dismissive attitude. I suggest you try educating yourself on the subject because odds are you will encounter a loved one with depression at some point in your life and it's handy to know what to do after telling them to "cheer up" doesn't work.

    As for TFA, I don't find it surprising that "start up" people have a high proportion of manic-depressives, the manic phase of the illness is characterized by extreme optimism.

    Shameless plug for a good cause

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  7. Unhealthy society. Not just in business or tech. by aussersterne · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This isn't just about startups, this is across U.S. society—there is zero work-life balance.

    Sure, every other company proclaims how great they are WRT work-life balance, but it's pure bullshit.

    During hiring (for employees) and/or funding (for startups), if you give any evidence that you will ever put anything before the company (family, health, whatever, it doesn't matter) in ANY way, or ever draw a line in the sand about hours/commitment at ANY number, you are totally noncompetitive/nonfundable (they won't use these words) and won't be hired/be funded. If there is any evidence in your CV, online persona, or history that you have ever done any of these things, you won't be hired/funded.

    Even after employment/funding, you have to keep this up. Sure, you may be asked (or even pressed) to "slow down," but it's superficial. The moment you do, positive evaluations/promotions/funding dries up; there is a perception that you're "not serious," "not committed," "not a good risk," or simply "not as capable/investment-worthy" as those *other* supermen/women that work 100+ hours a week (at least) and always put work first.

    Yes, they want you to take a break, take care of yourself, and balance your life. But hey, if someone else delivers more value or growth more quickly... Well, they'd be nuts not to go with them instead, and hope you stay healthy in the meantime, all the best.

    So, in the interest of your self/family/relationships you try to build a career that precisely demands that in order to keep it, you destroy your self/family/relationships. Depression is easy to fall into when your life will fall apart no matter what you do.

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
  8. Re:Don't forget about burnout! by tnk1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    His mistake was simple. He decided to be irreplaceable because he didn't think anyone could do as good a job as he could. You can't do that. That never, ever works out well for you.

    Now, a startup founder is a really important person for their company, of course. However, even they need to work towards limiting their workload, at least eventually.

    There's no point to building a startup if you end up dead or broken at the end of it. If you see it coming, then you need to act to fix it. If you go with the idea that you work or your startup fails, then when you break down, your startup will fail anyway. That or if you do make a successful startup, but break down because of making it successful, congratulations, you've just defined Pyrrhic victory for the startup scene. You'd probably have been better off as a wage slave at the end of it.

    Some people are driven to try and succeed, and the journey can be as rewarding all by itself, even with failure at the end. But if you aren't someone who can enjoy, or at least regard the journey as a rewarding learning experience, you should not be founding a startup.