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Watching People Code Is Becoming an (Even Bigger) Thing

Posted by timothy on from the playing-to-the-camera dept.

itwbennett writes: Faithful Slashdot readers may recall the story of Adam Wulf, who spent two weeks live-streaming himself writing a mobile app. The phenomenon has quickly become thing, by which we mean a business. Twitch.TV, Watch People Code (which is an offshoot of the subreddit by the same name), Ludum Dare, and, of course, YouTube, are bursting with live or archived streams of lots of people writing lots of code for lots of different things. And just this week, Y Combinator-backed startup Livecoding.TV launched. The site has signed up 40,000 users since its beta went live in February, but unlike the other sites in this space what it doesn't have (and doesn't have plans for) is advertising. As co-founder Jamie Green told ITworld: 'We have some different ideas around monetisation in the pipeline, but for now we are just focussed on building a community around live education.'

22 of 135 comments (clear)

  1. Who watches this crap? by enigma32 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is even worse than a stream watching someone play a game. Who wastes their time with these things?

    If you want to improve your coding skill you're better off practicing and reviewing code written by those more experienced than you, not watching someone "in the act" of doing it.

    1. Re:Who watches this crap? by i.r.id10t · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Depends on how the streamer works. Just watching text appear in an editor with the sound of cheetos being munched? Not very helpful.

      But, if there is a running commentary about how they are thinking of solving a particular (sub?) problem, deciding what arguments a function needs, what it needs to return back to the calling location, etc. can certainly help with the "How do I solve a problem" type stuff.

       

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    2. Re:Who watches this crap? by hsa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have been coding commercial software since 2000. I worked as a teaching assistant for an introductory programming course in one of the top universities in my country.

      I think these videos are awesome. One 2 hour video should be mandatory part of high school IT classes.

      Every year, we used to get 2-5 people in our 700-800 people course, who do not belong. They are definately not becoming coders, they are in pain and shouting "IS THIS IT? IS THIS WHAT I HAVE CHOSEN? WHAT IS THIS SH*T?". Then they drop out or go on to pursue other study paths.

      If they had seen a video about a coder in action, they would have quickly grasped the work they would end up doing in their careers. Young people seem to think, there is some sort of glamour in writing mobile games that they are blind to the reality of coding.

    3. Re:Who watches this crap? by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 4, Funny

      I don't know who does this, but I'm waiting for the market of "watching paint dry" to start picking up, then I'm buying a can of paint and charging $300 for an hour of viewing.

    4. Re:Who watches this crap? by RabidReindeer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's nonsense. I do my coding in my head. You want to "watch me code", get an EEG or a CT scan.

      When I'm sitting at the keyboard, I'm not "coding", I'm typing. If I have coded correctly, then I'm typing fast. If I haven't, I either retire from the keyboard and revise my coding, sit and stare vacantly while I'm revising my coding, or cut-and-paste.

      Here's a clue, then. When I look my most "productive", I'm not. When I look the most busy then I'm not doing my most valuable work. In fact, like a lot of people, the really valuable work is done while I'm in the shower or in bed not-sleeping in the wee hours.

      And THAT, children, is why I get surly when you come and interrupt me while I'm "just sitting there". Because while it's irritating to be interrupted when I'm trying to get it all typed in, it's enraging to have someone push a cow in front of my train of thought.

    5. Re:Who watches this crap? by freeze128 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Are you new to coding? Have you ever wanted to write a program or app, but didn't know where to begin? You can read books about programming, but that only takes you so far. Sometimes, you just want to see how other (successful) people do it.

      Every single book I have read about C++ programming tells you how the language works, but suspiciously says something to the effect of "Using your compiler is beyond the scope of this book".

      Terrific!

      You can learn how to program, but you will never see the rewards of your effort because you don't know what linking/compiling is or what object/executable code is.

    6. Re:Who watches this crap? by ThatsDrDangerToYou · · Score: 2

      I don't know who does this, but I'm waiting for the market of "watching paint dry" to start picking up, then I'm buying a can of paint and charging $300 for an hour of viewing.

      Well, clearly, this is the introductory offer, right? I wouldn't expect such a good deal once this thing goes viral..

    7. Re:Who watches this crap? by CastrTroy · · Score: 2

      I kind of agree on this. Watching others code can really help you pick up on things you can't get from a book. For instance, VS.Net has a really nice feature where you can Type Ctrl+?, which focuses on the search field. Then you type ">of" followed by a file name. You can do this to open files and edit them. It also has autocomplete so you can find your files faster. I use this functionality for switching back and forth between files all the time. It's often a lot faster than going to the mouse to switch which file you're working on.

      I even see a lot of new coders who don't know how to do things like use the debugger. Watching actual coding could be boring, but you could probably pick up a lot of useful tips for how to actually use the tools. Over the years, veteran coders pick up a lot of shortcuts that might not be immediately obvious to many programmers, both old and new.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    8. Re:Who watches this crap? by Rasperin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is exactly what I was thinking, the best way I've found to help jr programmers is a kinda pair programming where I explain things while they watch. When I run into a fork, I talk out loud about which route (and obviously take any input if offered, which rarely is, sometimes I push them to think about a complex question too but the idea is to keep mobility). And then assign them the other half of the day with there own tasks.

      With modern languages there are just so many "you should use this over that" and pitfalls that you can run into sometimes having the fish can be more helpful. (I really want to explain why this metaphor works so please bear (pun caught, now intended) with me) You need energy to fish, also you have to learn how to clean and cook the fish which is best done by the experienced individual the first couple of times so you don't die or have the shits from a simple mistake.

      Anyways, food for though. :D

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      WTF Slashdot, why do I have to login 50 times to post?
    9. Re:Who watches this crap? by enigma32 · · Score: 2

      This type of thinking is exactly the same as the folks pushing the "everyone can/should learn how to program" idiocy.
      Programming is not easy. Watching a video of someone coding some random thing will not make it easier. Ease comes with practice and reading a *lot* of code, both good and bad.

      Do you honestly think it is possible to show anything but the most facile examples in a video that someone will actually be able to follow?

    10. Re:Who watches this crap? by Your.Master · · Score: 2

      Watching somebody type is worthless.

      Watching somebody's thought process as they write code is maybe helpful, maybe worthless.

      Watching somebody code while they natter about random things could be entertaining, depending on how entertaining the coder is.

      Watching somebody debug their code is by far the best way to learn advanced debugging techniques that I've ever seen. That goes way beyond facile examples.

      I haven't watched any of these streams. I don't know what they do. But I can't discard it as idiocy without thinking it through.

  2. Translation by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >> We have some different ideas around monetisation in the pipeline, but for now we are just focussed on building a community around live education

    Translation: we are going to be ad-free to grab as many users as possible until we finalize the sale of the company to an appropriate advertiser. (That's pretty much how these start-ups work.)

  3. People who really have no life by Viol8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As the OP said - if you want to learn to code then review and practice. Watching is pointless.

  4. It's not about passively watching by mtippett · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a viewer, it's about learning technique and thought processes. Identifying issues, attempting a particular thought process, only those that provide a strong narrative to the work they are doing will be likely "stars". Watching how good programmers (assumption) deal with their environment and the typical problems they face. Seeing how people top down or bottom up write code is very interesting (within limits).

    As a broadcasting coder, it takes a fair amount of personal confidence to do it, particular in this field. Having to verbalize what you are thinking and how you are considering the problems in front of you is actually quite challenging. Those that do well in the broadcasting scene will most likely be strong professionally as well.

    That said, I personally don't understand the fandom about broadcast games to the level that it has taken. I get the benefits, but I don't get the market.

    1. Re:It's not about passively watching by phaggood · · Score: 2

      Tho i haven't (yet) watched, I can see two things I'd get out of it 1) I've been doing AngularJS for a while so I know the syntax very well, but it'd be useful to see how someone might use it in a more productive manner; i.e. i start with services and tests, maybe someone else writes controllers and dummy views first. If there was another Angular person in my office maybe I'd get some of that at work, otherwise I'm must out in the woods by myself. 2) I've got to pick up Swift fairly quickly; I've signed up for a course on UDemy but knowing how I absorb and retain info it'd be very usefuil for me to see how it's used first, then take the course and get some 'aha, so *that's* why he did that' or 'oh, i see why he didn't do *that*' moments that could augment the course content.

    2. Re:It's not about passively watching by mtippett · · Score: 2

      I agree fully. Having tried to get my mind around d3.js, there are *a lot* of leaps of understanding in coming to up to speed. Watching someone who provides a narrative how they get from a to d by verbalizing b and c will help immensely. The docs really go just from a to g.

  5. This should be entertaining by Snotnose · · Score: 4, Funny

    Arrive at office. Read email. Get coffee. Figure out what I need to code today. Start a for loop. Change CDs. More coffee. Flesh out for loop. Look up String API, find a method better than what I was after. Scrap everything. Lunchtime!

    Collaborate with a colleague. Get a Mountain Dew. Change CDs. Write glue code to make shiney new String API do what's required. Waste an hour explaining something basic to some marketing dude in a different state. Get code to compile. Scratch butt. Test/debug. Change CDs. Check working code into git. Figure out what needs to be coded next. Manager enters office, informs me requirements have changed and what I just checked into git is now wrong. Read /.. Go home.

    1. Re:This should be entertaining by ZecretZquirrel · · Score: 4, Funny

      No bodily functions? Iron man.

  6. It's not such a bad idea by asylumx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've actually done something similar to this in the workplace before and found it to be very effective. Basically I scheduled a meeting for the last hour or so of the workday Friday and invited the other developers to come jump on with me. I shared my screen, we had an open mic, but basically I talked through what I was doing and they had a chance to see how my thought process works and also to make suggestions or ask questions. It turned out to be a good chance for the more junior folks to learn from me and some of the other experienced developers and at the same time it made us think about what we were doing at a deeper level, which is something you can get complacent in after you've been doing it a while.

    This is something I did for several weeks in a row, but the last time was at least two years ago -- and yet as recently as last month I've had some of the folks that participated bring it up and comment how much they learned from it. If you think about it, it's basically pair programming on steroids.

    1. Re:It's not such a bad idea by SillyHamster · · Score: 2

      If you think about it, it's basically pair programming on steroids.

      You reminded me of the last time I did pair programming. It was in college, and I recall thinking, "This is an awesome way to code!"

      I can see it becoming tedious when it's forced upon you all the time; but I remember liking the second pair of eyes to notice typos and other bugs, and having a second brain to double check the logic of what I was doing.

  7. FWIW: I do the same thing. by tlambert · · Score: 2

    I spent 4 weeks thinking, and then I coded 22,000 lines of C++ in about two weeks.

    Ended up in wrist braces.

    The code was worth it.

  8. Solving the wrong problem by tlambert · · Score: 2

    Side Comment: why slashdot.org is the only site not allowing to edit your posts?

    Errors are less of a problem than revisionist history.