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Switzerland Begins Trials of Expensive Postal Drones

An anonymous reader writes: Swiss Post has beat Amazon, Alibaba and other researchers into drone-based delivery by launching practical drops using a Matternet four-rotored drone this month. However the company says that five years of testing and negotiation with regulators lie ahead before it will be able to offer a commercial drone-based delivery service. Like Google's Project Wing, the Matternet drone in question is mooted as a potential lifeline in post-disaster situations, but from a business point of view the release notes its potential for 'express delivery of goods' — a further indicator that the future of postal drone delivery may be an exclusive and expensive one.

55 comments

  1. How is it cheaper? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All of the drone slobbering fails to answer how a system that's very complex and energy intensive will be cheaper than a simpler system.

    1. Re:How is it cheaper? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're also throwing away "traveling salesman" economies. Surely flying packages back and forth from the post office to people is less efficient than waiting for n packages to accumulate, and then delivering them by truck using an optimal route.

    2. Re:How is it cheaper? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      This is for express deliveries. The point is not to be "cheaper", but "faster".

    3. Re:How is it cheaper? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      faster than what? Hold for tonnage ocean shipping? bike courier? Most of the time lost in shipping is in waiting. This might make the last 20 yards faster than walking, it might not. It might make the last 3 miles faster than a delivery driver, but it's unlikely to be faster than a bike courier in dense areas or a motorcycle outside of Manhattan.

    4. Re:How is it cheaper? by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. On the upside, the drones only weigh a few kilograms, compared to a tonne or two for a truck, and the drones can fly as-the-crow-flies direct routes, and they are electric vehicles, so are actually potentially much *more* efficient, particularly in Switzerland, where they get a lot of their energy from hydroelectricity.

      I suspect in a lot of cases they will be faster and more efficient.

      --

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    5. Re:How is it cheaper? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think a drone (or drone fleet) is complicated, consider the complications of maintaining a truck! And you have to pay some truck drivers too. With drones, just load them up with packages and wait till they come back. You can buy lots of drones for the price of one truck.

    6. Re:How is it cheaper? by vux984 · · Score: 2

      Not necessarily. On the upside, the drones only weigh a few kilograms, compared to a tonne or two for a truck,

      For dispatching a single rush package sure, it could be faster. But what does it do when it arrives? drop it on my front step where anyone can get it, or does it ring my bell, and politely hover at my door? Will it ensure i sign for it (typically rush packages are traceable)...

      What if I'm in an office building? Does it drop it on the busy front steps, or does buzz in and drop it off at reception?... What if im a tenant in a skyrise the 30th floor?...does it take the elevator to the 35th floor?

      Just doesn't make a lot of sense.

      And for traditional daily bulk delivery; you are delivering along a street / superboxes etc... and the 1 ton truck probably carries half a ton of mail on its route, if not more.. how many drones will that take?

      What is the drone range relative to a truck? What does the drone do on rainy days or windy days? How does it cope with snow? sleet? hail?

      What happens when it malfunctions and has to land? (or crash)? Is my high priority rush delivery now sitting in someone's back yard or on their roof or in their swimming pool? Or up a tree? (that's what happens when you fly as the crow flies right? It may not be be next to a major road.) While a human postman is dispatched to find it..?

      I may be missing something, but i just don't see where this makes sense in general. Maybe extremely cherry picked niches... but that's it.

    7. Re:How is it cheaper? by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1

      In order for the package to be useful, you need to be where it arrives.

      Imagine if you received a notification saying it was at the post office and then you replied to it, and it arrived shortly afterwards, so you're always there to receive it.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

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    8. Re:How is it cheaper? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Imagine if you received a notification saying it was at the post office and then you replied to it, and it arrived shortly afterwards....

      Imagine all that happened, and then I wasn't there to receive it. Because: life.

      And it still doesn't address everything from bad weather to drone malfuntion...

  2. Round and round by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

    Can a 4 rotor continue flying, or at least make an emergency landing without flying wildly or crashing, if one rotor goes out?

    With a max load package?

    For that matter, can a 6?

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    1. Re:Round and round by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      define "goes out" ... this is one of the questions that must be answered before these things should be allowed to fly commercially. Certified helicopters can autorotate from about 500' AGL. A 25 kg (55 lb) UAV falling100-200 feet will be lethal, even if you're in a car.

    2. Re:Round and round by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Can a 4 rotor continue flying, or at least make an emergency landing without flying wildly or crashing, if one rotor goes out?

      The rotors are driven by brushless DC motors, which are extremely reliable. The drone is far more likely to crash due to weather, collision, software bug, etc. Which is likely to do more harm: A crash of a 4kg drone, or a crash of a 4000kg delivery truck?

    3. Re:Round and round by sbrown7792 · · Score: 2

      Yes. Assuming it has the correct algorithm and the three remaining motors can thrust enough to compensate for the additional load. (if not, maybe the quad could at least slowly descend vs a total crash)
      Flying machines arena demonstrated this a while back, here's a video

      A six prop arranged coaxially (referred to as a Y6) can, so long as the failed motor doesn't take out the other motor attached to the same arm. And I'm sure the algorithm for the quad can be applied to a hexacopter, allowing autorotation for a controlled decent. The real question is how much power the remaining good motors can produce, and I suspect the answer to that is "not enough"

    4. Re:Round and round by gweihir · · Score: 1

      These are electrical motors. Unlike combustion engines, they very rarely fail catastrophically and without warning. If they do, the drone falls out of the sky, because it cannot balance anymore.

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    5. Re:Round and round by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Your numbers are complete bullshit. A drone is not a ball of lead.

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    6. Re:Round and round by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you compare a single drone to the crash of a single delivery truck? Nope.

      You'd have to compare the damage potential of a single drone times the potential rate of failure resulting in crash of drones times the number of drones required to deliver the same amount of goods as the 4000Kg delivery truck versus the damage potential of the delivery truck times potential rate of failure resulting in crash of a delivery truck.

      Still a good question though.

    7. Re:Round and round by CreatureComfort · · Score: 1

      These are ducted fans. A bird, bug, scrap of paper, floating plastic grocery bag, etc. can jam or wrap up a prop instantly.

      --
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    8. Re:Round and round by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      According to this video they are a lot mor resiliant that I thought.

    9. Re:Round and round by polymeris · · Score: 1

      The drone they are testing has a built-in chute. So even if, in the event of rotor failure, it fails to stay airborne it should not do much damage.

    10. Re:Round and round by polymeris · · Score: 1

      > A crash of a 4kg drone *slowed by its parachute*, or a crash of a 4000kg delivery truck?

      FTFY

    11. Re:Round and round by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's close; it's an lithium battery with slightly less density then lead, and some ancillary shit that just failed.

    12. Re:Round and round by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      > A crash of a 4kg drone *slowed by its parachute*, or a crash of a 4000kg delivery truck?

      FTFY

      These drones do not carry parachutes. That would make no sense. The parachute would add significant weight, and would do little good. The main structural material of these UAVs is Styrofoam, so they already have a low terminal velocity. Nearly all crashes occur during either takeoff or landing, and too close to the ground for a parachute to deploy.

    13. Re:Round and round by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. I'm not the least bit worried about drones taking my job as a letter carrier (I'd actually welcome them, especially dealing with expresses and during the holidays) but right now the odds of me doing any damage to people or property are nil.
      At the end of the day, though, I simply have to wonder what the point of drone delivery is. No one at the post office is so swamped with parcels they can't do their job (and we deliver the last mile of most FedEx* and over a third of UPS packages) so who besides Amazon even wants this?
      *Most first-call letter mail is flown in their planes, however.

    14. Re:Round and round by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      4 rotors won't fly with a broken motor - 6 rotors can. With a max load package? Depends on the definition of max load! But even if the drone can't carry with only 5 motors, it may be able to execute a controlled emergency landing instead of just falling. And it will obviously tell the control center its location.

      These won't be hobbyists drones. They will surely have a maintenance schedule, replacing parts before they wear out. Such "used pro parts" may then be recycled into the hobbyist market - where occational failure is more acceptable. And "max load" will be set so they don't overheat their motors. You get a lot of reliability by never pushing the equipment as hard as hobbyists do. Similiar to how taxis last much longer than racecars.

    15. Re:Round and round by gweihir · · Score: 1

      You obviously never held a drone or a lithium battery.

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    16. Re:Round and round by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Bug: no, bird: no, scrap of paper: no. And how many plastic bags do you see "floating" around at altitude? Seriously, you have no clue.

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    17. Re:Round and round by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how many ducted fans have you flown in the 100' - 500' realm?

      I spent a decade playing with R/C versions. Trust me, you'd be amazed at the number of things that can and will go wrong. Especially over a 20km round trip out of line of sight.

  3. I can see it now... by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 3, Funny

    Somewhere in the Swiss Alps, a poor delivery drone lies buried in an avalanche, only to be rescued by a Saint Bernard trained how to change drone batteries.

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    1. Re:I can see it now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually they'll just use a new drone that is powered by brandy, thus utilizing existing St. Bernard technology.

    2. Re:I can see it now... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Actually they'll just use a new drone that is powered by brandy, thus utilizing existing St. Bernard technology.

      s/brandy/drool/

      --
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  4. Drones on the ground by jmcwork · · Score: 2

    Some people seem eager for self driving cars but an autonomous vehicle carrying passengers seems to raise a lot of flags. Why not put them into service, initially, as delivery vehicles. Would that be easier to get through regulators than the airborne option?

    1. Re:Drones on the ground by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe. How about we use them to deliver people?

    2. Re:Drones on the ground by CreatureComfort · · Score: 1

      Airliners, especially Fedex and UPS, are already almost drones. Pilots rarely need to touch the controls, even for take-off and landing. They are mostly there for FAA reasons.

      The first ground autonomous vehicles you are likely to actually see on the road will probably be either taxi cabs or big rig trucks. Both have economics that make absolute sense for autonomous vehicles, even at relatively expensive "first adopter" prices.

      --
      "Unheard of means only it's undreamed of yet,
      Impossible means not yet done." ~~ Julia Ecklar
    3. Re:Drones on the ground by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      I'm waiting for an autonomous RV. Visit NYC, the Florida Keys and Alaska in 2 weeks from the comfort of my extended luxury living room. No driving or motels involved. My own private kitchen and bath. I could visit the whole continent in a year or two.

    4. Re:Drones on the ground by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Have they perfected the automatic big rig transmission yet?

      It would have to be a computer controlled sychro-less manual. Sychros can't last the 250kMiles required for economic truck transmissions.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  5. Did they break the law? by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    Why are they on trial?

  6. Misread that as "explosive postal drones" by porges · · Score: 4, Funny

    Was disappointed.

    1. Re:Misread that as "explosive postal drones" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Send the right package contents and disappointment solved.

    2. Re:Misread that as "explosive postal drones" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sure you did.

  7. Bike Messengers by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    They better learn to peddle even faster.

  8. How to make drone-based delivery cheap by swillden · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In sub-urban and rural areas I think drone-based delivery can be cost-effective. I think the key is to use a hybrid model with a "drone carrier" truck which serves as a mobile base station so the drones are only making relatively short flights. Imagine a truck that pulls into a sub-urban neighborhood, stops in one central location and then launches a dozen drones to deliver packages to all of the homes within a half mile or so. Or perhaps the truck might not even have to stop, but just drive along launching drones which deliver along its path and then return to it, still in motion.

    The advantage to the delivery service is that they could deliver to many nearby locations simultaneously, and trucks wouldn't have to be able to enter difficult locations (which currently constrains the design of package cars). This means the trucks could be larger, carrying more packages, and would deliver much faster, requiring fewer trucks and drivers. Given a self-driving truck, the "drivers" might end up being drone tenders/troubleshooters, rather than drivers. They could remotely designate appropriate drop-off locations when the drones can't find a good locations themselves, as well as handle any problems that arise with the equipment, and maybe still do package handling, to retrieve packages from storage in the truck and move them to where the drones can pick them up, at least until that can be adequately automated.

    I think it makes a lot of sense. The technology isn't there yet, but I don't think it's far away.

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    1. Re:How to make drone-based delivery cheap by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      The technology isn't there yet

      The tech is definitely there.

    2. Re:How to make drone-based delivery cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might want to patent that delivery service business model.

    3. Re:How to make drone-based delivery cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would still want a pilot controlling these. I would want someone monitoring an individual screen to make sure nothing bad happens.

      I'd also not want to have drones flying over private property even if it's just for a delivery. Have it follow the road path.

    4. Re:How to make drone-based delivery cheap by swillden · · Score: 1

      The technology isn't there yet

      The tech is definitely there.

      For fully-autonomous drones finding and delivering to appropriate spots at random addresses? I don't think so. I also think there would be a lot of engineering challenges in building a sufficiently-bulletproof system. As I said, I don't think we're there yet, but close.

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    5. Re:How to make drone-based delivery cheap by Chozabu · · Score: 1

      The "appropriate spots" could be determined by the person ordering the package?
      a few ideas:
      -GPS on smartphone
      -Mark position on map
      -other methods combined with asking them to hold up smartphone, which flashes code to drone when it gets close
      -manual survey beforehand (could be done on first delivery, after that drones can deliver)

      I'm not saying its easy - just that I think we can do it ;)

    6. Re:How to make drone-based delivery cheap by swillden · · Score: 1

      Sure, that could be done. I don't think the approach will be practical until the drones can find the delivery point on their own most of the time, though. GPS isn't sufficiently precise, and maps may or may not be, depending. I have some friends on the Google Maps teams and it's surprising how much effort goes into trying to align maps with reality -- and how often they still don't line up. Manual survey could work, but things change.

      Getting to the right address isn't too hard, but beyond that I think we're going to need visual processing to analyze the area and shape of the structure to find delivery points which are accessible to the drone, protected from the weather, don't bring the drone too close to people, etc.

      Without that, perhaps a better approach is a designated drone delivery box with a beacon. The drone would still need to examine the area to determine if it can approach safely, but that would solve many of the problems, including sheltering the package from weather (I'm assuming the box would close).

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  9. Not expensive by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

    a further indicator that the future of postal drone delivery may be an exclusive and expensive one.

    Rubbish, are these postal drones going to be paid? Healthcare? Holidays?

    Once they've got it worked out and the local sorting offices fully automated then a lot of postal people could easily lose their jobs. That doesn't sound like more expensive mail to me.

    If you're a delivery driver then you should definitely be looking to change your career before drones and autonomous vehicles make you redundant.

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  10. Moot. by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    "...the Matternet drone in question is mooted as a potential lifeline in post-disaster situations,..."

    In post disaster situations, we need no post, keep the invoices until the disaster is over.

  11. power cables, phone lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And how does it avoid thin cables strung across streets ?
    it will be hundreds of years (if ever in some places) where cables are buried, 220V power, telephone cables and high speed rotating blades ? whatever could go wrong ?

  12. Going postal by penguinoid · · Score: 1

    I know a lot of people who were afraid of drones going postal.

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  13. Constant buzzing over my backyard? No thankyou! by srodden · · Score: 1

    As much as efficiency and all that is wonderful, I see a problem of noisy drones buzzing overhead day in, day out. Another source of irritation in an increasingly stressful civilization. Would completely destroy a relaxing day in the park and it'd be hell in the city. If they started flying over my back yard, you can bet I'll be erecting nets, or possibly installing a CIWS.

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  14. Replace post system by sd4f · · Score: 1

    Not yet. They're going after the most complex problem now. What they could really look at is using large UAV's for air shipped goods in large quantities. The problem is again, reliability in making sure they don't crash and kill people on the ground.

    The big advantage of using UAV's in flying is that the can exploit the efficiencies of balancing flight time, altitude and velocity while removing the human constraints. I'm not entirely sure what the optimum can be, but I'm hazarding a guess that flying higher and slower will require less energy to complete the trip. In ordinary piloted flying, well this creates the problem that the altitude means less oxygen, longer flying hours means additional crew for shift rotation which all preclude commercial flights from necessarily doing it. They might not even have to be planes, could very easily be solved with UAV blimps, although I think it's safe to assume that they still won't use hydrogen...

  15. Drone use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Drones have non-military and big-business use, you know. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPt3VBftIJE