Ellen Pao Leaves Reddit; Site Founder Steve Huffman Makes a Triumphant Return

Deathspawner writes: To say that it's been a tumultuous month for reddit is an understatement. While multiple events have occurred in recent months that have caused an uproar, such as the banning of popular "hate" subreddits, nothing impacted the site quite like the out-of-nowhere firing of "Ask Me Anything" admin Victoria Taylor last week. Following that, other minor revelations surfaced, and finally, this past Monday, reddit CEO Ellen Pao came out from hiding to issue an apology. While her message instilled a bit more confidence in the future of the site, it wasn't enough. Today, it's been announced that Ellen Pao has left the company she joined last fall, and will be superseded by someone who knows what he's getting into: founder Steve Huffman.

Comments

Well, she was an interim.

[gcnaddict]

Ellen made all the hard changes, like clamping down on offensive speech. She was then canned as a scapegoat, the desired person was brought in for the long term role, and all of Ellen's changes stick.

All the while, Reddit looks like it acquiesced to the masses. Brilliantly played.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[msauve]

"Ellen made all the hard changes, like clamping down on politically incorrect speech."

FTFY.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[kuzb]

Ellen is a person who brazenly attempted to abuse the gender inequality debate in a high profile court case to make millions of dollars when she was fired for being abrasive, lazy and generally incompetent. Her husband is just as scummy a person, who participates in ponzi schemes and other less than above board activities. I'm frankly happy she's gone from Reddit. She is a horrible person.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Karmashock]

Censoring people undermine's reddit though.

Its like removing all the porn links from google. You only think you're doing something that won't horribly backfire if you don't understand the business you're in.

As the man said "The internet intepretes censorship as DAMAGE and routes around it." You can't censor people on the internet.

And if you turn your site into a corporate friendly disneyland then many of the content creators will leave, you'll give a niche for competitors to exploit, and the viewers that like that content will leave with them.

Think of Reddit like a bee hive. The content creators like bees. And the 99 percent of users that don't actually contribute anything as the Honey.

The problem with bees is that they sting. So somewhere along the way they said "wouldn't it be cool if we could get rid of the bees and just keep the hive and the honey!"... well... sure. But then you'd just have a box of honey. It doesn't work that way though.

The bees make the honey. And the hive is only as good as it makes the bees happy and productive. Fuck with the bees and you get no honey.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Type44Q]

Ellen made all the hard changes, like clamping down on offensive speech.

"Offense is never given, it's only ever taken."

-Unknown

"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool."

Brigham Young

WTF happened to the basic American principle of dying for the right of the offensive to be offensive... not just when we don't agree but especially when we don't agree??

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[samoanbiscuit]

Ellen is a person who brazenly attempted to abuse the gender inequality debate in a high profile court case to make millions of dollars when she was fired for being abrasive, lazy and generally incompetent.

Actually, it's not at all brazen. The facts of the case painted the firm as pretty sexist. What they could not prove to a reasonable standard was that this background sexism was directly responsible for her not getting promotions and bonuses. Her husband's legal problems also complicate the narrative, and cast doubt on her intentions

This is why the civil rights movement in the 60s waited for Rosa Parks, even though there had been several incidents of black women being mistreated on buses prior to Ms Parks' case. People are simple-minded, and confounding factors (like illegitimate children, alcohol/drug addictions, unsympathetic looks when it came to these many black women who went through what Rosa Parks went through) make your cause less likely to be successful, as unfair as that is.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[tsotha]

It's not about principle. It's about power. For an SJW, to take offense is to give yourself the power to close down the speech of others. That's why they take offense at everything.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, I recommend reading the Wikipedia articles on both of them. Quite a pair:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

They are Harvard educated elite grievance energizer bunnies, they just keep going!

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Snufu]

I find your comment insectist and demand a full retraction and apology.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[squiggleslash]

She didn't though, the clampdown was about using Reddit to organize harassment, not the viewpoints of the people concerned. And this wasn't even the first time a forum had been closed for significant off-Reddit behavior, from TheFappening to SonyGOP - the latter of which I'd be inclined to think should be more controversial than a sub dedicated to shaming people - specific people, in real life - with a particular medical condition.

I know it's unpopular to point it out, but honestly, if this were about views, don't you think rather a lot more subs would have been closed? Reddit's not exactly known for being dominated by left wing "politically correct" (urgh) subreddits, quite the opposite in fact...

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[RedK]

Nope, SRS and SRD are still there and engaging in harassement as they usually do. So she didn't even manage to clamp down on harassing subreddits.

Don't mistake what the FPH ban was : a political move to gain mainstream political correctness point in the eyes of the HAES and FA movements. Remember : 70% of americans are now overweight (source : http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statistics/Pages/overweight-obesity-statistics.aspx). It pays to cater to the majority.

If the goal was banning harassment, FPH was not the subreddit to ban. For the most part, they were simply keeping to their own dark corner and doing their thing amongst themselves. You had to go out of your way to "get harassed", by visiting the subreddit while fat and looking for pictures of yourself. Or worse: submitting your pictures in an attempt to get attention.

You just bought the media narrative hook, line and sinker.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[mattack2]

This is why the civil rights movement in the 60s waited for Rosa Parks,

Wait, the infamous bus incident happened in 1955.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[twistedcubic]

It's OK. Everyone knows he's just making up a random cause-effect scenario to support his argument. He thinks the number of black women with illegitimate children or alcohol/drug addiction in 1950s was so high that we had to "wait" for someone with a clean record. I know this offends the average Slashdot reader, but it's amazing how racial stereotypes cloud this guy's judgement. Drug addiction among black women in Alabama in the 1950s was practically nonexistent, while alcoholism was extremely rare for black women. And if you doubt this, you might at least agree that drug addiction/alcoholism/unwed children are much more common today than decades ago. The guy is projecting 1980s racial stereotypes decades into the past.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Funksaw]

If I say something that's considered to be insensitive in certain contexts, or a word that has been associated with hate and bigotry, that's political incorrect. It is "politically incorrect" to call black people "colored," even though the octogenerian users of that term may not have even seen anything wrong with it's use, it wasn't always seen as an offensive word, and in fact, is part of the name of the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People). That's political incorrectness. And you treat political incorrectness with stern correction that the behavior is "not appropriate," and you try to educate, if possible. Hate speech is when you *know* how hurtful your words are **and that's the entire point of why you say them.** The stuff Reddit banned during Pao's tenure absolutely, positively qualified as "hate speech."

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Fire_Wraith]

The notion of having a 'perfect plaintiff' is entirely well established in legal theory. Part of the reason is precedent - if you lose a case, especially the sort of case that goes all the way to the Supreme Court, getting a resounding judgment against your side is a pretty big blow, because it means future attempts will have a much harder time getting past the established doctrine.

So, you want a client who's squeaky clean, that doesn't have any character flaws or potentially shady past that the opposition can point to. You want someone that is more likely to evoke sympathy, because even though it shouldn't matter in the eyes of the law, judges (and juries) are human, and prone to human inclination of liking or disliking someone.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Sardaukar86]

For a Slashdot analogy that wasn't based on comparisons to cars, that was a damn good metaphor for the Reddit situation.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[onthemightofprinces]

You mean something able to withstand enormous amounts of exterior and interior trauma and worshipped by 50% of the population?

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[niftydude]

Republican presidential candidates: George Bush, George W. Bush, and now likely Jeb Bush.

Nope, no nepotism here, I am sure that they were each the best man for the job out of a population of 200+ million.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[sabri]

Personally I just hope she gets what her positive contribution to society warrants.

Positive contributions? If anything, this woman provides fuel to businesses and corporations that are hesitant to have women climb the corporate ladder.

First she sues her former employer, and loses on all counts.

Then she implements the most stupid HR policy I have ever seen: "we don't negotiate with job candidates because men negotiate better than women".

And the final straw was her not-so-brilliant PR move in upsetting her user base.

Not exactly the strong female CEO that Reddit needs. In fact, Ellen Pao is exactly the opposite of Marissa Mayer. Marissa is, so far, pretty successful in leading Yahoo. I don't work for Yahoo or ever have, but I'm a fan of Marissa Mayer. Silicon Valley needs more women like Marissa, and less like Ellen.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[rogoshen1]

In one of Malcolm Gladwell's books (forget which one, also take with a grain of salt) The reason that Rosa Parks set things off the way she did wasn't so much about her, but who she knew.

Namely, she had a rather large network of social contacts that could be used to rally to her cause. Had she been the exact same person, but a shut in -- it wouldn't have happened the same way.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[DarkTempes]

You just used a lot of acronyms and I have no idea what any of them stand for.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[samoanbiscuit]

Agreed, she had a lot of contacts within the civil rights movement, both political and ecclesiastical. What's also true is that she was a light skinned, chaste (at least apparently so) sober, respectable middle class black woman. Has she been the same person, but darker skinned, poorer, or with an illegitimate child or other non-ideal domestic situation, she might not have been able to make the impact she did.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[sound vision]

Ever heard of the Clintons? Better yet, the Kennedys?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[argStyopa]

100% bullshit.
The very idea that others have to tiptoe around your personal sensitivities is anathema to the very concept of free speech (and, frankly, being an adult).
In particular, the idea that certain groups can assert that other groups are entitled to social protection because of some historical or perceived grievance is not only particularist (and in that sense astonishingly narcissistic) but patronizing as well.
It's really nothing more than oversensitivity, displaced so one doesn't even have to take ownership: "it's not that I'm being hypersensitive, because I'm feeling this way on BEHALF of that person over there."
A very later-20th-century form of nonsense.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

Your complete ignorance of history, especially the history of white supremacy, is laughable. Black people weren't allowed to use the same seats, toilets, pools and rooms as black people.

No, you simply are not listening to what I'm saying.

You are absolutely correct that African Americans faced horrible discrimination and were still dealing with a legacy of slavery of only half a century earlier.

Despite the horrible discrimination African Americans faced then, social indicators like drug addiction, illegitimacy, unemployment rates, wage gap, were a lot better than after another half century of government dependency and handouts.

The civil rights movement demanded the end of government-mandated discrimination, and it ended. That was a necessary and good thing. But then it went on to demand government aid and compensation, and well-intentioned as those programs were, they have turned out to cause enormous harm.

You also need to realize that racist policies like eugenics, segregation, and forced sterilizations were policies advocated by progressives, as the application of science to improving society. These are the same progressives that then adopted new policies after the civil rights movement to discriminate based on race in different ways.

Meet new boss, same as old boss

[Anonymous Coward]

It's pretty clear Pao was just a scapegoat to take care of unpleasant business. It could be she turned out worse than the board expected, but make no mistake: she wasn't alone in driving the New Reddit policies they want, and had the board's full support. Her resigning will change nothing.

In other news: There's voat.co that's turning into a pretty nice community to replace Reddit. It's more like the original and the userbase is pretty big now.

What a good day today is!

[Kentokae]

First the racist conservative battle flag is removed and now Pao is removed! Whats next? Removal of citizen spying?

Re:What a good day today is!

[amicusNYCL]

the racist conservative battle flag

You mean the one that Fritz Hollings, the Democrat, fought to install, in the 1960s?
The one that the S.C Legislature, under the control of Democrats for most of the last 50 years, kept up?

Yes, fuckface, that's the one. Did you have another one in mind? The Democratic party is the oldest political party in the world still in existence, and for much of its history it has had conservative factions. Even up until the 1980s Southern populists were Democrats until moving to the Republican party. If you think "conservative" is a synonym for "Republican" then you're an idiot. Conservative Democrats created that flag, and were instrumental in keeping it there (I'll ignore the fact that conservative Republicans in the SC legislature are the only ones against the flag's removal, because if it was another time they might have been conservative Democrats; either way they would still be conservative).

Reddit

[ichthus]

What's Reddit? Is it like Digg?

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

Strangely, even us SJW's recognize that not every firing of a woman is discriminatory. It's almost as if you've scarecrowed yourself up an enemy who doesn't exist.

I think firing Taylor was a terrible decision. But we have no evidence - or even allegations - that it was motivated by gender bias. Men and women get fired all the time - and contrary to what your bubble has told you, very few of those firings ever end up in lawsuits.

SJW

[Kunedog]

By using the term "SJW", you have outed yourself as someone who has had to deal with annoying, dishonest, power hungry, attention-seeking, hypocritical SJWs.

Re:A triumphant return deserves ...

[PapayaSF]

I think Benny Hill might be appropriate, for the whole affair.

As usual, Iowahawk nails it

[PapayaSF]

Thanks to Ellen Pao, Asian-Americans will no longer be saddled with the insidious stereotype of being bright, hardworking and competent.

Anybody know of $500k+ tech industry job openings for a lawsuit-happy SJW with no technical experience? Asking for a friend.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Noah Haders]

The headline is a little clickbait-y, but the article is neutral. how do you associate one headline with the "SJW-side"? Do they have a parliament where they vote on which position to support? Its a bogeyman that doesn't exist.

good for her

[Goldsmith]

Whatever you think about Pao, she was in a very tough position. Reddit was in full on shit hitting the fan mode when she took over.

The company had just raised $50M they didn't actually need, with no real plan of what to do next. The new board was micromanaging and not looking out for the good of the company. The corporate culture was self serving and tone deaf. The prior CEO couldn't get a simple office location change through the board and quit. Pao is promoted to interim CEO. The title of "interim" CEO should NEVER have been used publicly. That it was shows the stance of the board towards management. She got some control of the company back from the board, was able to institute some changes and show that the position of Reddit CEO was still meaningful in the company. Think about that transition from when she started and the CEO couldn't change the office space without board approval (that he couldn't get!) to today when everyone can agree that the CEO runs Reddit. She realized when it was time (ish) to go and (presumably) helped get a very good replacement that the board actually likes.

I don't think I would actually like working with her, but I do think she did a good job there.

Re:good for her

[Anonymous Coward]

> The prior CEO couldn't get a simple office location change through the board and quit.

They tried to force a large part of the workforce to move from NYC to SF, or they'd get fired. That's hardly a "simply office location change", that's forcing people to move across the whole country. The reason wasn't even logical, it's his feelings that "all successful startups are in SF".

> I don't think I would actually like working with her, but I do think she did a good job there.

If by "good job" you mean "alienating a large part of the contributing user base, and making sure the competition become serious alternatives", and "causing so much controversy that mainstream media ran articles about a user revolt for a week", then yes. In my eyes that's pretty much the definition of a "bad job", though. Pretty much anyone could have handled those changes better. Hell they could have hired me and I would have done a better job that she did.

"Hate Speech" has no definition

[Chibi Merrow]

Hate speech is when you *know* how hurtful your words are **and that's the entire point of why you say them.**

By your definition, insults are hate speech.

Hate speech is like pornography/obscenity: No one can define it, and it's usually strangely close to "Stuff I don't like."

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[ultranova]

By your definition, insults are hate speech.

Which, of course, they are. People tell insults to work themselves up. They're psychological preparation to overcome the inhibitions against harming others. Since humans are pack animals, this preparation needs to take such highly visible form so either the victim or other members of the pack have a chance to interfere.

Look at every genocide in history. They all have a campaign of escalating slander preceding them.

Hate speech is like pornography/obscenity: No one can define it, and it's usually strangely close to "Stuff I don't like."

Pornography is speech aimed at causing sexual excitement, and hate speech is speech aimed at establishing it as acceptable to harm someone. Don't confuse people making excuses for themselves either way for the actual concepts being vague.

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[Ol Olsoc]

For example:

1. "You're an idiot." Not hate speech, just an insult.

Which is odd, because the pejoratives idiot, moron, imbecile refer specifically to people of a range of intelligences.

IQ

50-69 Moron

20-49 Imbecile

below 20 Idiot

source: http://www.iqcomparisonsite.co... If calling someone a faggot is hate speech, then calling someone an idiot is likewise hate speech against people with an IQ of less than 20.

Just a matter of time before that becomes a banned word.

note: I'm merely noting it isn't easy to make simple statements of what is or isn't hate speech. I have a gay friend who often refers to himself as a faggot, or even "worse. If I do something stupid, I'll sometimes call myself a "dumb fucking hunky". And neither of us hate ourselves.

I tend to apply it to when threats of violence are made, along with whatever group the perp is encouraging violence against.

Re:Mayer dishonesty: Firefox switched to Bing sear

[kuzb]

Not that I agree with those business tactics, but I think your dishonest = incompetent equation doesn't make much sense. If a con artist manages to con people out of a lot of money, he's definitely dishonest. However you can't really call him incompetent.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[PapayaSF]

The headline is a little clickbait-y, but the article is neutral. how do you associate one headline with the "SJW-side"?

I find your sneer about a "parliament" rather odd. It's not a "bogeyman" to note that people who generally take one side of an ideological issue will... generally take one side of an ideological issue. Yes, there are disagreements within teams, but it's not unfair to make general statements about ideological teams when those teams usually act like teams.

How many do I need to post to prove my point? Here's Arthur Chu, the self-described "social justice stormtrooper," again expressing the "SJW side": Reddit’s Terrorists Have Won: Ellen Pao and the Failure to Rebrand Web 2.0. A big feminist blog: Pao! Right in the Kisser: Reddit assholes celebrate CEO’s resignation after a week of abuse. SJWs Brianna Wu and Randi Harper are lining up just as one would expect. The NY Times puts their editorial view directly into the news. I'm sure there will be more in the coming days.