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Taking the Lawyers Out of the Loop

An Associated Press story carried by the Christian Science Monitor suggests that expert systems can already replace lawyers in a great many disputes (especially low-level ones, where the disputants don't need or don't want to see each other), and the realm of legal expertise that can be embodied in silicon will only grow. The article spends most of its time on Modria, a company whose software is being used in Ohio to "resolve disputes over tax assessments and keep them out of court, and a New York-based arbitration association has deployed it to settle medical claims arising from certain types of car crashes," but mentions a few others as well. Modria's software has also been used to negotiate hundreds of divorces in the Netherlands, including ones with areas of dispute: "If they reach a resolution, they can print up divorce papers that are then reviewed by an attorney to make sure neither side is giving away too much before they are filed in court."

7 of 116 comments (clear)

  1. Pharma pricing incoming in 3...2...1... by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So if it would have cost $120,000 to litigate, the software company will lease you the code for an $80,000 per-dispute fee.

    Somehow, I think the bloodsucking will simply change parasites.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  2. Hard to believe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I find that hard to believe. I have had 4 legal experiences in my time.

    1) a divorce - (family law)
    2) a labor dispute over a layoff - (labor law)
    3) a private investment - (securities law)
    4) A copyright filing - (intellectual property law)

    In every case, there were some areas that could have been algorithmic, but in many dimensions on each one there were things that came about from advice from the attorney on how to position myself and under what laws I could make a case, which has a lot to do with language parsing and the definitions of the words used and their context. Unless this was paired with something like Watson which can determine meaning from context, I don't see this as being anything more than a paralegal replacement, but not a lawyer replacement.

    1. Re:Hard to believe by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Note that the laws are made in the most complicated and absurd ways on purpose . There is no money for lawyers where one person can interpret a law by herself.

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    2. Re:Hard to believe by monkeyxpress · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Note that the laws are made in the most complicated and absurd ways on purpose . There is no money for lawyers where one person can interpret a law by herself.

      The other thing is that people miss one of the main roles of lawyers - emotional therapy. It works because normally both parties to the dispute, (especially when it does not involve experienced business people who can see the bigger picture) are typically trying to find someone to be on their 'side'. A lawyer will happily take this role for you. They will listen to you moan about how mean or nasty the other party is, and colour the legal advice they give you so that you feel justified that your position is 'right'. They will then go 'into bat' for you against your opponent by talking to the other lawyer. I once had a business dispute where the other guy couldn't see this. After getting endless letters telling me how hurt his feelings were while dancing around the real issues that need to be resolved, I ended up having to tell the idiot that his lawyer really doesn't actually care about his plight, but is just pretending to care because he was being paid $200/hr to do so. I also explained to him that when his lawyer goes and has a petty argument with my one over some point that is not significant to the dispute, they don't actually have a shouting match down the phone. They are on the same team - which is team billable hours.

      Anyway it ended up making him so paranoid I was able to scare him into a settlement. My point is that lawyers are not going to go away because very little of how they make money is from solving logical legal problems.

  3. Take The Right Wing Out Of The Loop by JimSadler · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The right wing loonies in Florida have pushed through a law that causes all kinds of nightmares for everyone involved. If you have a wreck you must ask for transport to a hospital claiming that you are hurt. If you do not leave the scene in an ambulance your lifetime limit on all injuries from that wreck is $600. That means if you bump you head just a bit and do not go by ambulance and go blind or become wheelchair bound for life due to brain swelling you still can not collect one red cent over $600. So victims, hospitals, tax payers and lawyers all get into the fray and everyone looses except the bad driver who caused the wreck in the first place. And he may never even get a traffic ticket. For decades we have had auto insurance medical policies that offer ten or twenty thousand maximum for bodily injury. Obviously that is absurd. We do see people who will face better than thirty million dollars in medical losses alone not to mention loss of earnings and being in pain in intensive care nursing homes for life. Yet real medical liability insurance is considered too expensive and in fact would take 99% of people off the roads as drivers.

  4. Computers as lawyers by reebmmm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    IAAL and a programmer. Let me start by saying: people have been promising expert systems to resolve a "great many disputes" for almost as long as there's been personal computers. And in some cases, those systems exist, but not in the form of legal expert systems, but negotiated transaction expert systems like you see in financial trading and the like. If the goal is always an equitable resolution of shared information, then computers can do it. Divorce between amicable partners would seem to be a prime example.

    But that's not the reason people usually use lawyers in transactions. It's for all the other things that can possibly go wrong, including failure to share all the information (e.g., untrusted parties), not wanting "equitable" divisions, interpretation, etc.

    If all the world just did the right thing, there'd be no need for lawyers.

    1. Re:Computers as lawyers by hab136 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >Hmm, do "amicable partners" actually get divorced?

      Sometimes you don't hate the other person, you just realize that they aren't who you want to spend the rest of your life with. Lots of reasons for that - misjudging the other person from the start, you misjudging yourself, or one or both of you changed significantly during the relationship.

      Even if you are angry, that doesn't mean you're also spiteful and greedy; you may hate the other partner but aren't trying to screw him/her over.

      Of course, those types of divorces don't make the news; they just quietly happen.