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NYC Asks Google Maps For Fewer Left Turns

An anonymous reader writes: Members of the New York City Council have sent a letter to Google asking that its Maps navigation system provide users an option to "reduce left turns." Pedestrian safety is the issue they're trying to improve. In the U.S., a quarter of all accidents involving pedestrians happen while a vehicle is making a left turn. "The first cause of death for New York City children under 13 is not gangs, it's not poverty, not violence. It's being hit by cars and trucks. This is the time for the city to reach out to the private sector, so they can help us to provide information to drivers about where you should avoid making left turns." The council members are also asking for an option that would let truckers stay on known truck routes, hoping that would prevent the problems that arise when big-rigs wander onto streets not large enough to safely accommodate them.

35 of 363 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Waiting for that first "Nanny state" comment... by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is obviously a nanny state act by the same government that forced everyone to drink less soda and is run by the SJWs that are ruining video games like Ellen Pao and Obama.

    Holy crap, I just hit submit and it's already at +5 Insightful. And you've been modded to -1 Troll already. It's an AI! There are no moderators really modding these things!

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  2. Re:or... by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Insightful

    they could just put up "no left turn" signs

    It takes money to order and install such signs. Then those requirements impede profit later on, as well. That plan won't fly. Instead they spent a few days' worth of city council time writing a letter to ask someone else to provide an optional work-around.

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  3. Seems Reasonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Making a request like this seems very reasonable and hopefully Google will be able to improve their service in this regard.

    1. Re:Seems Reasonable by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Honestly this seems like perfectly reasonable user feedback concerning a use case that was not considered by the developers.

      Honestly it seems goddamned retarded that the software doesn't already try to optimize away left turns. Everyone and their mother knows, for example, that UPS does this. They do it to save fuel, but it also improves safety.

      --
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    2. Re:Seems Reasonable by gnasher719 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Since this isn't about absolutely avoiding left turns, but reducing the number, you could just count every right turn as a 10 second penalty, and every left turn as a 30 second penalty, and go on calculating the fastest route.

  4. if you ask a geek by eexaa · · Score: 3, Funny

    Left turn = three right turns. Three times safer, right?

    1. Re:if you ask a geek by bledri · · Score: 3, Informative

      Left turn = three right turns. Three times safer, right?

      If you ask a statistician you'll discover that it's not only safer, but it's also more efficient because less time is spend making complete stops and idling at lights. This is why UPS minimizes left turns.

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  5. Re:or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sometimes a left turn is necessary. Having Google maps put a higher cost in the algorithm for left turns, the system can then determine better if a left turn should be made or three rights. It isn't about eliminating them entirely (as it isn't practical to do so), it is about reducing.

  6. Fewer left turns? by xenog · · Score: 3, Funny

    I live in Ireland, you insensitive clod!

  7. It works for UPS. by RevWaldo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Apparently it also reduces fuel consumption and saves time

    http://compass.ups.com/UPS-dri...

    .

    1. Re:It works for UPS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      UPS has the advantage that they don't want to go to a specific target, but drive past multiple targets. It's quite likely that they don't substitude 3 right turns for each left turn they eliminate, but significantly less on average.

  8. "Truckers" should use commercial solutions by acoustix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Truckers shouldn't use google maps anyway - they don't provide legal truck routes. There are other applications out there like ALK PC Miler that provides truck routes based on verified truck routes, height and weight limits, etc.

    I'm not sure that Google wants to get into that game, at least not providing a free product.

    --
    "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
  9. Re:Waiting for that first "Nanny state" comment... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wait, Ellen Pao and Obama are video games?

  10. Why don't apps learn? by barlevg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There are certain roads I prefer to take and others I prefer to avoid, certain maneuvers I prefer to make and others I dislike. Example: especially if I'm navigating someplace unfamiliar, I'd much rather take the "least complicated" route that involves the fewest turns, especially if the time saving is less than 15 minutes.

    Google Maps tracks this, both if I'm putting together the route on the computer (for printing out and taking with me) or if I'm actually navigating. And yet its suggested directions never change. It seems like there'd be MORE than enough data accumulated in a relatively small number of drives for GMaps (or Waze, is after all owned by Google, or whatever) to notice "Ah, this person hates taking non-protected left turns," or, "this person will not take the beltway for any more than a half-hour's time savings," and to adjust the directions it gives accordingly. They personalize search results. Why not directions?

    1. Re:Why don't apps learn? by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Funny

      They personalize search results. Why not directions?

      They're too busy figuring out the next way to shit up the maps interface with more idiotic changes.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  11. One seems reasonable by afidel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The request for right turn optimized routes seems reasonable, but the truck route seems stupid to me. If you're operating a large truck you should be using truck optimized commercial software, not freaking Google Maps. There are all sorts of things like bridge height, earlier lane alignment alerts (it takes a LOT longer to get an opening big enough for a big rig), hazmat restrictions, etc that the commercial packages take into account that google maps is unlikely to ever add so giving a truck route option seems like it would give drivers a false sense that google maps is an acceptable alternative to what they should really be using.

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  12. As a motorcyclist... by TFlan91 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a motorcyclist, I avoid left turns like the plague.

    Not for safety reasons, but because I don't want to sit there for 15 minutes waiting for a car that weighs enough to pull up behind me to trigger the lights to turn green.

    We waste so much of our lives waiting at red lights its baffling!

    </semi-tangent>

  13. The solution... by Krymzn · · Score: 4, Funny

    Switch to driving on the left.

  14. Better yet... by c · · Score: 4, Funny

    NYC should just ask Google to track children in real-time and let drivers know when one is nearby. And especially flag the ones who aren't being watched by an adult; they're way more likely to play in traffic.

    Pervasive surveillance... it's for the children!

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  15. numbers by corando · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1/4th of accidents occur when going in 1 of 4 directions.... imagine that :)

  16. Re:Waiting for that first "Nanny state" comment... by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's Political Correctness gone mad!

    BTW, did you notice this story is literally NYC asking Google Maps to have a leftward bias?

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  17. Re:Waiting for that first "Nanny state" comment... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I fail to see how anyone could construe offering an additional option, rather than constraining people to that option, is acting like a nanny state. Most especially since it's simply a friendly request, not a law, so it's up to google to decide if the feature offers value to their customers or not.

    Heck, I'd expect the right wing to be all over this as an example of how private companies and government can work together for mutual advancement.

  18. Re:Waiting for that first "Nanny state" comment... by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Funny

    BTW, did you notice this story is literally NYC asking Google Maps to have a leftward bias?

    No, but I did notice the exact opposite of that.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  19. Stop traffic when letting pedestrians cross by iTrawl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I live in the UK. Here, traffic is stopped entirely across the intersection and pedestrians are allowed to use all the crossings. There's no crossing when any side of the intersection has a green light for cars.

    After living in the UK for so long, I went to visit a friend in Germany and it took me by surprise when after making a left turn there was a pedestrian crossing the road... and he had a green light too.

    I find the idea of letting both traffic and pedestrians on the road at the same time stupid and irresponsible.

    --
    "Everybody's naked underneath" -- The Doctor
  20. Re:Waiting for that first "Nanny state" comment... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    In Germany to go left, you take the *Third Right*

  21. What happened to Common Sense? by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Hmm. How about teaching kids to do the simple, sane thing and Watch Where The Fuck they are going...??

    What happened to parents teaching their kids basic safety, and the old adage about "Looking both ways before crossing the street"?

    Seriously...do parents not teach kids the basic things about life? Don't talk to strangers, look both ways, cross street at intersections, etc.

    I guess I'm just puzzled why what used to be common sense has suddenly gone straight out the fucking window?

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    1. Re:What happened to Common Sense? by Ambassador+Kosh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sometimes you look both ways and it is clear and while crossing the street someone still zooms through on a left turn and nearly hits you.

      I have nearly been hit a few times while crossing the street by careless drivers that drove through an intersection FAR too fast. This is all while paying attention to my surroundings.

      For a child they are smaller and even more likely to get hit.

      I can't wait for the day when humans are no longer permitted to drive.

      --
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    2. Re:What happened to Common Sense? by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Do you walk much in big cities and use crosswalks?

      Because in all honesty, I see a tremendous amount of drivers who don't even look for pedestrians and just race through the intersection. I've been crossing on a light and had some asshole turn right on red practically run me over, and I know damned well people actually do get run over.

      And some of these drivers are then yelling at the pedestrian for being in the way, because they're too stupid to realize just who is in whose way.

      Maybe the problem isn't about teaching children common sense, but in realizing that many drivers are practically homicidal in the way they drive a car.

      Because, I'm sorry ... but if I'm crossing a cross-walk on a walk signal, and you're turning right on red through the crosswalk, it's not ME who is at fault.

      You can look all you want, but when drivers don't seem to be aware of (or care about) pedestrians, that's the real damned problem.

      A tremendous amount of people turn into assholes and morons when they get behind the wheel.

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    3. Re:What happened to Common Sense? by beanpoppa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Have you ever crossed the street in a large city? When you have the walk signal, cars also have a green light in your direction of travel. A car would likely be waiting until opposing traffic clears to make a left turn onto the street that you are crossing. Very often, cars will hit the gas as soon as traffic passes, not paying attention to the pedestrians crossing the street. The pedestrians did nothing wrong. There were no cars coming when they crossed.

    4. Re:What happened to Common Sense? by bledri · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hmm. How about teaching kids to do the simple, sane thing and Watch Where The Fuck they are going...??

      What happened to parents teaching their kids basic safety, and the old adage about "Looking both ways before crossing the street"?

      Seriously...do parents not teach kids the basic things about life? Don't talk to strangers, look both ways, cross street at intersections, etc.

      I guess I'm just puzzled why what used to be common sense has suddenly gone straight out the fucking window?

      Seriously? Pedestrians crossing the street with a walk sign get hit by someone making a left hand turn and you blame the pedestrian? The issue is the driver making the left is mostly focussed on oncoming traffic. As soon as they see an opening in oncoming traffic, they gun it with out checking if the crosswalk is clear. We can "blame" the victim like you are. We can blame and punish the driver. Or we can admit there are limits to human focus and do something to improve the situation.

      Clearly you don't walk, ride a bicycle, or a motorcycle on a regular basis or you would be aware that people in cars regularly change lanes, run red lights and make turns without noticing anything smaller than a passenger car.

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    5. Re:What happened to Common Sense? by bledri · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Pedestrians have the right of way, which is true. But that doesn't mean they can slip into blissful ignorance, step off the curb into traffic and have a reasonable expectation that the car that is turning left will see them in time to stop. With your right comes some responsibility. Far too often I see pedestrians step into the crosswalk in such a way as to make it all but impossible for the left turning car to safely stop. Whereupon, they flip the driver a bird. That is assuming they even bother to acknowledge the herculean effort the driver put in to avoid their dumb ass.

      Asking Google to modify the code to reduce the number of suggested left turns is one way to MAYBE alter the outcome. An additional step would be to put some effort into a PSA campaign that tells pedestrians to watch where the hell they are going and stop behaving like they are entitled before they even step into the street.

      The fact that some pedestrians act "entitled" does not change the fact that cars regularly hit pedestrians that are following the law and are crossing with a walk sign. Why is this so hard to understand? Cars in many cities can turn left at a green light where pedestrians are crossing. The car, waiting for oncoming traffic to clear, sees an opening in oncoming traffic and punches it without looking for pedestrians. This happens all the time. I saw it happen this weekend.

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    6. Re:What happened to Common Sense? by thsths · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > Pedestrians have the right of way, which is true.

      > Far too often I see pedestrians step into the crosswalk in such a way as to make it all but impossible for the left turning car to safely stop.

      I think you fail to understand the concept of right of way. If you are going too fast to safely stop, you are going too fast.

    7. Re:What happened to Common Sense? by porges · · Score: 3, Informative

      As an NYC-specific fact: right turn on red is explicitly illegal within city limits.

    8. Re:What happened to Common Sense? by mjm1231 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're supposed to cross at an intersection if possible, and if not, at least where you have a clear line of sight in both directions. You're also supposed to wait until it's safe to cross. If you can't see if it's safe to cross, you're doing it wrong.

      Translation: Never ever cross the street in New York City.

      --
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  22. Re:or... by bondsbw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Of course, that's not the fundamental issue... which is:

    The turning driver has a green light right when pedestrians have the walk light

    When your city can reasonably be ranked as the top pedestrian city in the world, it might behoove you to plan accordingly by not putting your pedestrians directly into oncoming traffic.

    --
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