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Automakers Unwilling To Share Driver Data (Yet)
An anonymous reader writes: With Apple and Google both vying for a place in your car's dashboard, you might start wondering to what extent the data you generate while driving might be analyzed or shared with advertisers. The good news is that car manufacturers are not keen to give this data away — some have specifically said they won't let Google or Apple get their hands on it. The bad news is that they feel this way because they see your data as a new source of profit — they're just deciding how best to harvest it. One executive at Ford said, "We need to control access to that data. We need to protect our ability to create value." According to the article, "Auto companies hope to profit from in-vehicle data in a variety of ways, including the provision of travel planning services and auto repair and service information they hope will bring drivers to dealerships. They also expect to work with insurance companies, providing information that would allow insurers to base their rates on a driver's behavior behind the wheel."
I really don't want any of this from them.
Just stop this "It's for your own good" crap.
The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination
- Douglas Adams
Step 1: Distract driver with advertisements Step 2: Collect revenue from auto repair shops and lawyers Step 3: Collect federal grant money to work with insurance companies to improve safety
He once inserted random mutations into his code, just so he could have the experience of debugging.
Since I created the data by driving, and it is unique to my driving, can I assert copyright over it?
Nobody gets any data. Nobody - no car manufacturer, no Apple/Google, no insurance companies, no NSA/FBI. I, the consumer, don't need it or want it. Why does a car have to collect any data in the first place?
Is that even going to be an option in any future new cars?
> The bad news is that they feel this way because they see your data as a new source of profit — they're just deciding how best to harvest it.
It's really great how car co's just assume they are entitled to have this data.
I do not want this in my car, at all, in any form. No "opt out" or "we take your privacy seriously", nothing. I want it physically impossible for them to collect data.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Can I pay full price and keep all my data to myself?
When did every waking moment of my life have to be a monetizeable asset? This all grinds to a halt with an informed consumer and the hacker is no different. We were the ones to create and install adblock, noscript, ssl everywhere, and refuse location data. We null-routed known advertisers IP ranges and took back our internet, and if the same dog-and-pony capitalism is coming to transportation, You can be damn sure we will hack it. And if it cant be hacked, I havent met a peripheral or device that cant be removed with the help of a solder rework station and a pair of needle nose pliers.
Good people go to bed earlier.
I generate this data. I own this car. This is my data, not the company who made my car. If it's a rental, sure, go ahead and do what you want with that. But if I own the car, that data is MINE to choose whom I give it to, or don't give it to, and use as I see fit.
This isn't any different than any other appliance or device. I own my computer, The manufacturers that made it don't own the data that's created by using it. Tired of companies thinking they own what I do with the stuff they sell me. It's getting ridiculous.
I'm still in a vehicle that is a relic of a bygone era - the era when connectivity was opt-in by making explicit purchases for that functionality. My next vehicle negotiation will involve bringing a Ziploc bag and saying, "please have the folks in the shop place *all* cellular and GPS connectivity equipment in this bag. My purchase of this vehicle is wholly contingent upon this bag being full, and visual confirmation that my in-car infotainment system shows error messages before I pull out of the lot."
I look forward to the funny faces I get from the salesmen at the dealership, but this is the world we live in today, and it is sad that such a notion is even necessary.
Apple, Google, Microsoft, and Amazon need to stay the HELL out of my dashboard.
it's also pretty ridiculous because the time window when they could have monetized that data at all ended a few years ago.
Google already knows everywhere I go and are already able to tell whether i'm in a car, bike, plane or on foot. They really don't need the automakers to get on board with that.
That's all we need, cars that come with yet another software EULA that says you don't actually own the software or communications systems in the car, and trying to customize it or removed unwanted "features" will violate the warranty and open me up to lawsuit liability. Not that that stopped many people from messing with software and/or communications before, but now it has the added fun of multi-ton machines hurtling down the road mixed in with it.
Same reason some people actually pay for shirts with "Abercrombie," "Old Navy," "Aeropostale," etc. on them. I could never figure it out - if you're advertising for them, the shirts should be free.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Fine if you don't want or need it, but recently Massachusetts law went into full effect that requires automakers to give owners access to that data. Hopefully more states will follow suit.
I hate to break it to you, but almost all modern cars have some form of communication equipment, and will upload driving data to the manufacturer in real time.
The problems with this include that is data collected without our consent, which we can't opt out of, which creates massive privacy implications, and which law enforcement will happily demand.
Once stuff like this is collected, the inevitable scope creep ensues.
As a general rule, people like you who say "well, I don't mind if it's for insurance" have spent zero thought on how much potential this has for abuse.
It's not like we can choose to not own cars to avoid this. But if car makers expect to treat this data as "theirs" to be monetized, there needs to be legal safeguards on it.
Not this horseshit notion that if you don't want to be tracked you should live in a cave.
This week it's monetization by assholes, then it's insurance, then it's law enforcement, then it's your wife's divorce lawyer.
This is just turning us unto the ever expanding surveillance society. Only instead of being exclusively in the hands of the thought police and big brother, this is now in partnership with private industry to make money and constantly spy on us.
Fuck that. This is a terrible idea, and there needs to be mechanisms by which people say "I don't want that", and not simply some EULA which says "by continuing to use your $30K car you consent to us having access to all your data".
Bunch of greedy bastards. I bought the car. It's mine. I should be the one deciding what of my information it's giving to you.
This is just more of a bullshit trend where "ownership" means we get fucked over by our possessions so some asshole can maximize executive bonuses.
This has to stop.
This isn't some technical wonderland, this is just more of the dystopin future where law enforcement and corporate profits touch on every single aspect of our lives.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
And nobody has been killed by falling out of an airplane either. Hitting the ground at 100+ mph is the problem. And as I said, you are not as good of a driver as you think you are.
I'm willing to "go nuclear" on any corporation. My give-a-shit is broken. I will reduce them all to bankrupt rubble long before I will have a moment of pity for them...
If you really have the wherewithal to reduce corporations to 'bankrupt rubble', for Christ's sake what are you waiting for? Tell the rest of us how to do it, then get your ass in gear and start destroying! After you're done with Apple/Google/BigAuto, you might have a look at Monsanto. Then after that, there are many others whose smoking ruins I'd love to toast marshmallows over.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
I generate this data. I own this car. This is my data, not the company who made my car. If it's a rental, sure, go ahead and do what you want with that. But if I own the car, that data is MINE to choose whom I give it to, or don't give it to, and use as I see fit.
That depends entirely upon the terms of the purchase agreement you made when you bought the car.
I own my computer, The manufacturers that made it don't own the data that's created by using it.
That doesn't mean you own the software that is on it necessarily unless you were the one that wrote it. You might have a license to use it but you don't own it. You might own the data or you might not. Depends on the license agreement and the applicable laws. Right or wrong it isn't so simple as you make it out to be. I don't disagree with your sentiments but I'm just pointing out that the reality of it isn't necessarily what we expect it should be.
I use Waze (a navigation app) for every trip I make. Google owns it. I don't know what there EULA says but I'm sure they don't just throw away my position reports. And yet.. I use it for every drive, even when I already know the way. Sometimes I think about the fact I'm basically submitting myself to monitoring. I've even considered piecing together some solution with open street map and my own server to avoid this. But... I get real time data. I get warnings about accidents, traffic jams and speed traps up ahead. Countless times it has saved me hours by routing me around accidents on the expressway. On my drive to work there are miles between some of the exits. Simply getting off if the traffic stops moving is not an option.
I grew up in a small midwestern town, technically a village. As a kid I resented the fact that everything I saw on TV or heard on the radio was directed towards places that were as far away and inaccessible to me as the moon. Now I live in a city where this is not such a problem although on the iternet it still feels like some sites I frequent often forget that silicon valley and NYC are not the entire world.
Similarly there is browser tracking. I do share the concern of many Slashdotters that marketing firms know too much about our personal lives. But.. then again.. I consider myself to be a geek and a maker. I love the fact that 'punch the monkey' and 'little blue pill' popups have for me been replaced with ads for Arduinos, components, oscilloscopes and such. I also enjoy obstacle courses and now I see Tough Mudder ads all over the web letting me know when and where to find the next event.
Sometimes I think that I want to start being more private with my data... but.. I kind of feel like I have moved into a different world that I find more interesting and can better relate to. I don't want to give that up.