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Giving Doctors Grades Has Backfired

HughPickens.com writes: Beginning in the early 1990s a quality-improvement program began in New York State and has since spread to many other states where report cards were issued to improve cardiac surgery by tracking surgical outcomes, sharing the results with hospitals and the public, and when necessary, placing surgeons or surgical programs on probation. But Sandeep Jauhar writes in the NYT that the report cards have backfired. "They often penalized surgeons, like the senior surgeon at my hospital, who were aggressive about treating very sick patients and thus incurred higher mortality rates," says Jauhar. "When the statistics were publicized, some talented surgeons with higher-than-expected mortality statistics lost their operating privileges, while others, whose risk aversion had earned them lower-than-predicted rates, used the report cards to promote their services in advertisements."

Surveys of cardiac surgeons in The New England Journal of Medicine have confirmed that reports like the Consumer Guide to Coronary Artery Bypass Graft Surgery have limited credibility among cardiovascular specialists, little influence on referral recommendations and may introduce a barrier to care for severely ill patients. According to Jauhar, there is little evidence that the public — as opposed to state agencies and hospitals — pays much attention to surgical report cards anyway. A recent survey found that only 6 percent of patients used such information in making medical decisions. "Surgical report cards are a classic example of how a well-meaning program in medicine can have unintended consequences," concludes Jauhar. "It would appear that doctors, not patients, are the ones focused on doctors' grades — and their focus is distorted and blurry at best."

44 of 245 comments (clear)

  1. Seriously... by Last_Available_Usern · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How could no one have foreseen the potential abuse and pitfalls of a system like this? Without even reading any further than "Giving Doctors Grades..." I immediately conjured images of a bunch of doctors huddled around each other saying, "I don't want that one." "Well I don't want that one either. My feedback is back at 85% and I can't risk another death screwing me over."

    1. Re:Seriously... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You attribute far too much planning and foresight to the people who implemented it.

      Pretty much every metric I've seen like this leads to people trying to maximize their score instead of doing the things being measured in the score.

      Think standardized testing, where suddenly teachers are only teaching what you need to pass the standardized test.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Seriously... by RCCrash · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Govt is exceptionally good a proving the 'theory' of unintended consequences. n-level thinking requires more cynicism than most politicians can muster.

    3. Re:Seriously... by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Simplistic solutions are attractive to bean counters, politicians, and even voters. All three groups are frequently unoccupied by unsophisticated people who may have certain degrees of tactical intelligence, but tend not be able to think through a given proposal, but rather look for things that are somehow emotionally or ideologically pleasing.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re:Seriously... by Ichijo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Could you provide an example of something that teachers should teach but that cannot be tested?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    5. Re:Seriously... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      Same thing happens in business and government. That's what you get if you let MBAs run things: management by the numbers. Insight is replaced by spreadsheets, performance is measured on pretty dashboards and delimited by SLAs... and the funny things is: in the end, those managers / politicians get exactly what they asked for. Too bad it's not what they wanted though.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    6. Re:Seriously... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Think standardized testing, where suddenly teachers are only teaching what you need to pass the standardized test.

      Poor analogy. Doctors can choose their patients. Teachers can rarely choose their students.

      If what is on the test is not what you want the students to be learning, then the problem is with the design of that test, not with standardized testing in principle. Most people that object to our current system of testing, have no interest in improving it, but rather prefer no accountability at all.

    7. Re:Seriously... by Sowelu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The argument isn't against testing, it's against standardized testing, and over-reliance on testing. If the standardized tests for history are based on a specific curriculum, that means everyone has to teach the same parts of history, with the same emphasis (which is a great way to indoctrinate people). It also means you can't focus on assignments and on general knowledge; a kid who has a broad understanding of world history and why things happened, but who doesn't have dates memorized, could get high grades in essay assignments but tank on standardized tests. Someone who's objectively better educated can still be rated very low by tests administered by someone who doesn't know their curriculum.

    8. Re:Seriously... by firewrought · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The argument isn't against testing, it's against standardized testing, and over-reliance on testing.

      I like the term high-stakes testing, because issuing a standardized test once a year is a fine to gain visibility into trends and patterns (and maybe figure out where extra help is needed), but once you start tying compensation and school budgets directly to the score, it's over. People are going to game the system.

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    9. Re:Seriously... by Ichijo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      critical thinking

      Why can't the student's knowledge of logical fallacies be tested?

      creativity

      Some say creativity can in fact be tested.

      or learning skills.

      Learning skills such as critical thinking and creativity? (See above.)

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    10. Re:Seriously... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Metrics are amazingly important. However what is being measured and why are vital components of any metric and determine if the metric is useful or not. The problem with standardized testing in schools is that the purpose of the metric is ill conceived. We are testing the students to determine the quality of the teachers. Since the tests are not normalized to include the quality of the students the metrics are meaningless. Likewise unless the metric for doctors takes into account the survival risks of the patients the metrics are meaningless.
      Anyone who understands how metrics work knows that. So in a real sense none of these consequences are unforeseeable, even if they are unintended from the point of view of the clueless incompetent bureaucrats who created the system.

    11. Re:Seriously... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I could have had coffee in my mouth when I read that the problem with politicians is that they aren't cynical enough, you insensitive clod!

    12. Re:Seriously... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thinking outside the box ?

      That can be taught and tested. I have a meter long shelf with books full of puzzles that require "out of the box thinking" rather than conventional approaches, written by Martin Gardner, and other puzzle masters. I use problems from these books when I volunteer for after school enrichment programs. The kids love them, and they definitely get better at them with practice. The creative thinking exercises help them quickly come up with solutions in robotics and programming competitions.

    13. Re:Seriously... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      Most Standardized testing fails at the student's level. They are great for people who have no contact with students (Politicians, High Level Administrators etc), but they do NOTHING to help the kids learn anything. And because of that, they are more or less worthless for students, and everything for people getting paid stupid amounts of money to generate standards based testing.

      And standards based testing is EXPENSIVE, and negatively impacts seat time in classrooms. And my experience is that by the time the results are back, it is too late to help anyone on anything, except those that don't have any contact with student.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    14. Re:Seriously... by bondsbw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not always that they cannot be tested, just that they are not tested.

      One reason is because using a Scantron to grade multiple choice answers costs much less than paying graders to read free-form answers.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    15. Re:Seriously... by sjames · · Score: 2

      Yes. Failure to take the patient's condition into account makes the grading useless. A doctor who loses a patient who was circling the drain on presentation should not be faulted. OTOH, losing a patient who was just in for a check-up should count HUGE.

    16. Re:Seriously... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The argument isn't against testing, it's against standardized testing

      If the tests are not standardized, then there is no way to compare results, which makes them meaningless for improving the schools through accountability.

      If the standardized tests for history are based on a specific curriculum ...

      They are not. So that is a phoney objection. However, the standardized test for reading and math ARE based on specific knowledge, like being about to add, subtract, multiply, and recognize and know the meaning of specific words. Do you also object to that as "indoctrination"?

    17. Re:Seriously... by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 2

      Poor rebuttal. Not only can teachers not choose their students, but teachers can rarely choose how they teach, as well.

      The move toward standardization is not simply toward testing, but also toward scripted lessons, highly stringent time-tables, and an artificially imposed metric of "success" that leaves no room for innovating a solution. While standardized tests are performed disgustingly often in our schools, the results are so inconsistent and delivered so late that there is no opportunity for teachers to craft an effective intervention strategy.

      "Most people that object to our current system of testing, have no interest in improving it, but rather prefer no accountability at all."

      Unsupported, unadulterated, reactionary bullshit. Find a teacher and talk to them instead of pulling out rhetoric like this, please.

    18. Re:Seriously... by alannon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem, as I understand it, in standardized (CORE) testing in mathematics is not that ALL the students are made to learn how to add, subtract and multiply, but that the test makes extremely specific assumptions about PRECISELY what method that the student was taught in order to make use of those operations. For example, I believe it is common for the standardized tests to assume that students do all of their basic arithmetic by using number-lines in a very specific way. If, instead, the student was taught to do arithmetic using any of the MANY, MANY other methods out there instead of the number-line method (which I personally think is slow and stupid) they will flunk because they must show every step of the problem on a number-line, regardless of the resulting answer the student supplies.
      I can't imagine a more soul-sucking task for a teacher then to have to re-teach their students how to do their math problems in an objectively WORSE manner than the one that the teacher had been, JUST so that the class doesn't fail their standardized tests and the teacher/school isn't penalized. This is exactly how you discourage passionate individuals from becoming teachers.

    19. Re:Seriously... by david_thornley · · Score: 2

      Except that teachers are often evaluated by the test scores of their students. Naturally, since they're rewarded by the metric, many of them do their best to game the metric.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    20. Re:Seriously... by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why can't the student's knowledge of logical fallacies be tested?

      Because knowledge of rhetoical games is not a good measure of thinking. It'd be like a test of the rules of football and claiming it measures the ability to play the game.

    21. Re:Seriously... by Bengie · · Score: 2

      Being able to be able to condense data down into abstract ideas that can be analogized to other things more familiar is many times more important than the exact details. That is probably a more important skill that knowing exact details because facts can be googled, understanding of a subject cannot.

  2. bad metrics by danlip · · Score: 4, Funny

    bad metrics lead to bad results. Who would've guessed?

    Gotta go, must write a million lines of code so I am "productive".

    1. Re:bad metrics by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      I can usually tell the worth of a Educator (teacher) by their desire to learn. I work in a school district, and the better teachers tend to want to learn new stuff. The lessor teachers figure they are done "learning" because they finished college or similar attitude. Everything being equal, those teachers that still love to learn are better teachers, than those that don't want to learn anything else.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    2. Re:bad metrics by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      Not necessarily. Bad Metrics can cause problems in situations where no metrics wouldn't. As in unintended consequences. In this case, this is exactly what happened, bad metrics results in worse performance, not better.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  3. Be careful with metrics by alvinrod · · Score: 2

    That's the problem with using metrics as incentive. You'll find people caring more about the metrics rather than the outcomes that are actually important.

    I think that this Dilbert comic captures the idea quite well.

    1. Re:Be careful with metrics by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2

      Gamers gonna game.

    2. Re:Be careful with metrics by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      What I find works is to have 10,000 metrics, with each worth a varying value. Fatality rate? 5% of the total. Time from first visit to last visit? 1% Difficulty of case? 3%

      Repeat until the equation is too complex to be optimized for. The metric should reflect "do the most good" in the best way possible. A simple single KPI almost never gets the desired result.

  4. Just like Teacher "Grades" by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In NY, where I live, we're now "grading" teachers based on how well their students do on standardized tests. Any teacher who strays from the "prep for the test" subject matter and uses inventive ways of helping their students learn is going to have students who might know more, but who will perform worse on the tests. Teachers who stick to the script and drill test preparation into their students will wind up with better scores even though their students will know less (except how to fill in bubbles).

    Just like the Doctors example in the article, the "teacher grading" system is going to backfire. Talented teachers will be kicked out (test scores are tied to their jobs now, your students get low scores and you're out) and mediocre teachers will remain. It's almost like trying to take the jobs that teachers and doctors do and standardize their job functions across every student/patient they see doesn't work. Maybe because their jobs require using their brains and trying different techniques as opposed to an assembly line worker who just needs to perform the same task every time with no variation.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    1. Re:Just like Teacher "Grades" by shankarunni · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's actually much worse. Teachers who toil away in schools where the students get little or no parental or peer support for learning, get hurt very badly by these grades, because regardless of how hard they work on the students, they do less well on standardized tests (and improve less) than students who grow up in suburban environments that encourage learning.

      So it becomes a terribly dis-incentive for the best teachers to go to the schools that need them the most - they'll grab all the plum assignments in the nice, rich, suburban schools, while fresh teachers get sent to the inner-city schools (perpetuating this situation).

    2. Re:Just like Teacher "Grades" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe some of the administrators whose job it actually is to evaluate their teachers should have their feet held to the fire. The city I live in, every principal in every school must spend two hours a year in each teacher's classroom evaluating their teaching methods and performance.

      Two. Hours. A year.

      Since they won't do their jobs, they're falling back on ridiculous metrics to do it for them. They get paid 2-3x as much as the teachers they're supposed to be evaluating too. Seems that all of these new programs are meant to support the administrative jobs much more than the learning the students receives.

    3. Re:Just like Teacher "Grades" by myrdos2 · · Score: 2

      It seems like standardized testing is the sort of thing you'd resort to in desperation, say in schools where students aren't learning much of anything. Then at least you can increase the performance from 'abysmal' to 'mediocre'.

  5. Did TV beat this article to the punch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wasn't this addressed by the Scrubs TV show years ago?

  6. its a scale of morality, not function. by nimbius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    competence isnt being measured here. the altruistic goals, "live" or "dead" instead are supplanting good science to determine which doctors are and are not performing well. Death is not objectively bad in cases where it is an unavoidable consequence of environment or genetics. Quality of care and quality of life, the two metrics doctors have always used, is a far better judge of performance. If a 78 year old chronic smoker dies from emphysema then it is of little use to chastise a surgical team or doctor for the death.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  7. Still A Good Idea by maz2331 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's still a good idea, but the metrics need to be better thought-out to account for the patients that are being seen. A proper system will also "grade" each patient based on how bad their condition is, and then combine the mortality rates to come up with a metric that reflects how well the doctor is doing at improving outcomes where it is possible to do so.

    1. Re:Still A Good Idea by codeButcher · · Score: 2

      In other words, one now needs two doctors treating each patient, one that knows enough to "grade" the patient, and another one to do the actual treatment.

      --
      Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
  8. High Risk + Low Success = High Cost by kenj123 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This sounds tough, but how much of the high risk- low success operations being done contribute to the high cost of health care in the US? maybe in some of the high risk situations somebody needs to say no. sorry, but costs are out of control and we need some realistic assessments. On a similar note, its been some years since I've heard people say ' I don't care how much it costs, if it just saved one life it was worth it.'

    1. Re:High Risk + Low Success = High Cost by swb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think there's a ton of money being dumped into the walking dead.

      When my mom was at stage 4 of metastasized breast cancer, we had a family meeting with the oncologist to discuss my mom's situation. When asked what -- if any -- chances she had for life extension (not a cure, but more than 12 months) he was totally equivocal about it and was basically looking to start another round of chemotherapy. I felt like he was just looking for another round of payments before she died. They give you the thinnest hope to try to get you to keep using their services.

      I've heard similar stories before from other people with older relatives, very sick and unlikely to every recover in any meaningful sense of the word yet the doctors insist on expensive and invasive treatments. The only explanation I can think of is that it's good business for them.

    2. Re:High Risk + Low Success = High Cost by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 2

      The result of "Payment for each Service" rather than "Payment for Outcomes". Standardize on what level of hopelessness the insurance company aren't required to pay, and doctors will cease to prescribe "Hail Mary's".

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
  9. Better model? by bwwatr · · Score: 2

    Painfully obvious that a single metric like this would backfire. A better model is one where we assume (unless demonstrated otherwise) that everyone in the profession at hand is striving in good faith for excellence, then provide mechanisms to self-report errors and close calls without fear of punishment. The body handling this then uses the lessons learned to continually improve the systems and processes that the professionals interact with to lessen the likelihood of impact due to human factor errors in the future. Everyone's weaknesses and experiences in aggregate paint a much better picture of what the ultimate risk mitigation strategy looks like. Check out the airline industry. It works extremely well, and I'm underselling this.

  10. Any system that can be gamed, will by buk110 · · Score: 2

    Any system that people can game, will be gamed.

  11. Is it really bad to reduce aggressive treatment? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "They often penalized surgeons, like the senior surgeon at my hospital, who were aggressive about treating very sick patients and thus incurred higher mortality rates," says Jauhar.

    It is true, some surgeons who are willing to treat very difficult cases would be adversely graded. But shouldn't there be some mechanism to apply brakes to the aggressive treatment? Some patients, and some of the relatives will be seeking treatment even when the situation is utterly hopeless. There are incentives for the doctors and the hospitals to pursue aggressive treatment. So, under these circs, is it really bad these grades are making them reevaluate the cases and be more realistic about the prognosis?

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  12. Re:Game the system game the metrics by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 2

    Yeah, because Bill Gates is THE go-to guy for opinions on software quality.

  13. You missed a spot by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 2

    Suppose a patient comes in for a routine checkup and the doctor finds an advanced cancer and the patient dies. The primary care doctor who had the patient "in for a routine checkup" should not be punished for the poor outcome.

    I get the feeling that is not what you meant to happen when you said "losing a patient who was just in for a check-up should count HUGE", but that is what you said. It highlights the difficulty of doing this kind of thing correctly.

    --PM