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Senate Passes 'No Microsoft National Talent Strategy Goal Left Behind Act'
theodp writes: Microsoft is applauding the Senate's passage of the Every Child Achieves Act, a rewrite of the No Child Left Behind Act, saying the move will improve access to K-12 STEM learning nationwide. The legislation elevates Computer Science to a "core academic subject", opening the door to a number of funding opportunities. The major overhaul of the U.S. K-12 education system, adds Microsoft on the Issues, also "advances some of the goals outlined in Microsoft's National Talent Strategy," its "two-pronged" plan to increase K-12 CS education and tech immigration. Perhaps Microsoft is tackling the latter goal in under-the-radar White House visits with the leaders of Mark Zuckerberg's FWD.us PAC, like this one, attended by Microsoft's William "It's Our Way Or the Canadian Highway" Kamela and FWD.us President Joe "Save Us From Just-Sort-of-OK US Workers" Green.
Although I believe kids should be exposed to STEM courses, forcing them into STEM fields where there is no interest is a recipe for disaster. Better to let kids dictate where their interest lies.
Also, this is more of the corporate drive to lower wages in STEM fields no different than them wanting more H1B slave labor. More people in a field than there are available jobs means the corporation can dictate wages and get concessions on benefits that they would not otherwise be able to command.
This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
Wow, the MS hate is strong here (yes, yes, I know, Slashdot). While yes MS benefits, bringing CS to an earlier stage of development in education is beneficial to society as well, so in many ways it's a win-win. Is the only laws that pass good if it's a win (society) - loss (some corporation)?
This summary and header is really making a concerted effort to make it appear that adding CS to K-12 is somehow a bad thing.
They can't claim that they're starved for labor when they're terminating it left right and center... then importing labor that has to be trained by the people they're firing.
My attitude on the whole H1B visa thing is that you need to require that they pay them... lets say 20 percent more than the going rate for domestic labor of the same kind.
If they NEED the labor then they'll pay the 20 percent. If this is just about money then suddenly their insatiable interest in H1B will vanish.
Highly skilled and high demand labor will still get imported and that's good. That's great. And the 20 percent in that context won't matter.
But the importing of entry level techs?... that should stop.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
As long as they don't equate programming/coding with computer science. Coding is likely to be obsolete in a few years - replaced by deep learning systems as those systems increase in capability, and so the last thing we should do is steer kids away from math and toward coding. Computer science - as opposed to coding - is timeless and will continue to evolve - and dramatically change, with a greater emphasis on how to create and use machine learning systems. But somehow I doubt that public schools will understand these issues.
Apparently they will be teaching children about Linux and the virtues of open source.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
I just hope they keep that hippy linux and open source indoctrination away from the children. That propaganda is almost worst than the creationism crap they keep trying to sneak in.
Flooding the market with scores of high school kids who are forced to learn computer science is a great way to drop the average wages across the board. There isn't a shortage of coders. There's a shortage of coders who are willing to work for less.
The first goal of K-12 education should be to teach critical thinking skills. Kids need to learn to think logically and to understand the meaning of a critical path. The second goal should be to teach English and communication skills. Third comes history and civics, the knowledge to become a functioning citizen. Fourth would be a basic grounding in math and science.
IF
the schools manage to do all those things and still have money and class time left over.... fine....
THEN
it makes sense to focus on computer science as a "core academic subject".
"He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
Slashdot's motto should now be "Theodp's Fair and Balanced Blog on US Tech Employment"
Sadly, Microsoft is digging their own grave by these efforts. Microsoft doesn't need more crappy coders making more crappy code. They need fewer crappy coders making their code less crappy. Microsoft desperately needs to throw out 90% of the code they've written and replace it with high quality code. To do that, they probably need to fire at least the bottom 90% of their coders and retrain them in another line of work, so their crap doesn't just spread to the rest of the industry.
as though ten million IQ scores suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly zeroed.
I fear something terrible has happened.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
The way the title is worded, reminds me of the Onion.
Funny how Americans have to train their "best and brightest" replacements. Americans are too stupid for tech work, but not too stupid to train the people who do the tech work.
Also funny that those "best and brightest" nations are technologically backwards, and do not have much to show for nations of tech geniuses.
You are all cows. Cows say moo. MOOOOOOOO! MOOOOOOOOO! Moo cows MOOOOOOO! Moo say the cows. YOU COWS!!
I say we rename it.
I vote for "The Ralph Wiggum Is Really A Genius He Just Has Not Been Educated Forcefully Enough Act".
Because, as we all know, everyone is educable; you're just not trying hard enough if they fail,because all failure is the fault of society, and no blame rests with the child.
Microsoft PC systems only? What about Macs, Linux, Android, other systems??? I fear MS has are more concerned about their own agendas, then they are about giving students a proper CS education!
I believe that Microsoft has contracts with some states that ONLY allow Microsoft based PC's to be used in schools.
For those confused by Theodp's typical rant on K-12 CS, FWD.us, Code.org, Microsoft, Bill and Melinda Gates, Zuckerburg, which the Slashdot editors have the poor judgement of posting, this link provides a summary of the new public school education bill that is set to replace the unpopular "No Child Left Behind" bill from the Bush administration.
Note that TFS self-referentially links to previous Theodp rants on Slashdot for reference (!) C'mon, Samzenpus.
Here is the relevant section about CS:
Redefining Core Subjects
One note of interest, is that the ECAA expands the definition of 'core academic subjects' which has historically included English, reading or language arts, mathematics, science, foreign languages, civics and government, economics, arts, history, and geography. The updated definition now includes computer science, music, and physical education, and any other subject as determined by the state or local educational agency. This can be interpreted as a victory by those who have claimed that NCLB has precipitated the narrowing of curriculum leading to the elimination of the arts in some schools.
Note that music and phys ed were also added as "core academic subjects", along with computer science. States are also given the option of adding to the list of core subjects. Somehow I didn't see that in Theodp's summary, but he probably left it out so he'd have more room to add some more acronyms of organizations that vigilent Slashdotters need to oppose.
The lesson here: If you take Theodp's summary at face value and don't bother to do your own googling/ducking for the facts, Theodp will take you for a ride.
Unless the universities care about CS in K12, then it is all a monumental waste of time. I am presuming here that people do not hire folk for CS jobs straight out of high school, but rather look for them to have trotted off to university.
Now, by the word care, I mean have K12 CS as a prerequisite for a program of study with a CS major or minor. At the moment, the requirements are Calculus plus Physics. So, good luck to them with this ill thought out giant cesspit of an "initiative."
"Every Child Achieves" is an even WORSE name for an education bill than "no child left behind". Please tell me it's just a name. Please tell me it's not some sort of "everyone's a winner" bullshit that undermines education even more than it already is.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Gates has to be smart enough to realize that for Every Child to Achieves the "achievements" must be meaningless.
My attitude on the whole H1B visa thing is that you need to require that they pay them... lets say 20 percent more than the going rate for domestic labor of the same kind.
In particular, employers of H1Bs are not required to contribute to SOME of the social programs they aren't eleigble for. Part of any H1B reform should be a requirement that they pay them at LEAST as much more as the difference in government fees saves them. Otherwise there is a strong financial incentive to use H1Bs in preference to citizens.
(An additional complication is that the employers often put the H1Bs to work on things above their official job title and its resulting pay scale.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Just wait until they figure out they can spin a "harrassment" narrative painting all H-1B skeptics as "hold-out racists defending a white boys' club." From what we've seen over the last year, we damn well know a huge chunk of tech news media would fall right in line to parrot that propaganda (even if that means pulling a complete 180 on their previous position, and even if it means abandoning their core readership).
As long as they don't equate programming/coding with computer science.
That's what industry does. BSCS == coder/programmer. I see all the time coding jobs - and they're JUST coding jobs - requiring degrees in computer science or engineering.
'Too stupid' and 'too distracted and entitled-feeling' are different things. Many Americans lack the self-discipline to be good workers. This is particularly true of younger Americans. It's fun to stay up until 3am on working nights playing WoW, and as long as you're meeting the bosses' requirements you're entitled to do so.
For goodness sake, not another of theodp's anti-CS education posts! Please Slashdot, end the madness and stop posting this drivel. We seem to be getting a few of them per week, and most of them are nothing but snide insinuations and misrepresentations.
"I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
School districts are run by the local school board, with oversight by the state. The Federal government has no role to play here.
"Senate Passes 'No Microsoft National Talent Strategy Goal Left Behind Act'" sounds like students will be taught Microsoft specific skills. A cursory reading of the summary mentions only CS as being a requirement.
So, I am all set to continue teaching my students Linux System Administration (where the high paying, stable jobs are).
Wow, Congress is making actual changes to No Child Left Behind? That sounds important. I don't know if it is nerdy enough to appear on /. , but I would like to read about those changes, instead of just the small section that microsoft lobbied for.
that ten times real fast
My boss is the guild leader, you insensitive clod.
-]Phreak Out[-
I really don't want to sound like an H-1B apologist, but I do understand at least partially where companies are coming from. This comes from being on both the worker side of the fence and the "influencing hiring decisions" side, as well as about 20 years' experience in IT. Some people end up doing incredibly well at a job despite the first impression they give, and others really disappoint after a great first impression.
I do think they're going about this "fix" the wrong way, but I can understand why a company would be reluctant to pull someone off the street that they didn't know already in today's hiring environment and just sort of hope they work out. In my experience, the problem is that there are lots of domestic talented people out there who just can't sell themselves to hiring managers. Either they can't write a resume to save their lives, or they interview very poorly. Conversely, the extroverted schmoozers and posers interview incredibly well, especially in front of the management making the hiring decisions. These guys end up getting the jobs, not performing as expected, and we get the "we can't find any domestic talent" meme. The other two strikes against domestic hires are the perceived wage premium, although it usually takes way more in consulting dollars to clean up offshored or H-1B messes, and the fact that there is the offshoring/outsourcing safety valve that allows companies to ignore the first problem (inability to identify and keep talented people.) Bring the wild west of "expert IT recruiters" in and it's a huge mess.
Techies would never even consider unionizing, but I think a professional guild is a way to combat this. Standardize training, and find a way to equitably weed out the empty suits from the really talented who just don't interview well. The problem is that the H-1B or outsourcing route has to be closed off enough to give domestic hiring a shot at working.
"Most of you who read this blog know this but it bears repeating for others who might not know, Bill Gates is big on charter schools and charter schools are staffed by non-union teachers, basically cheap labor to keep cost down. The corporate reformers have figured that the most expensive item on their tally sheet are teachers so to make a profit they hire non-union labor in the form of Teach for America recruits. TFA, Inc. recruits, most of them straight out of college, receive 5 weeks of training, sign a contract to teach for two years and then they are off and running in mostly low-income communities where the last thing needed is more churn." ref
The possibility of a well-rounded education for middle- and lower-class citizens is dead - long live job training for the masses! Henceforth public schools will be mass-producing pliant and compliant workers-to-order for a private sector that is clearly salivating at the prospect of a cheap and almost limitless local pool of labour. After all, why go to the expense of bringing H1-B workers into the country when they can simply whore the existing US labour market? Making use of desperate people with few options who are within easy reach, are in tune with the local culture, and speak English natively, is just good business sense. And if there aren't enough such people to fill our needs, the government and its agencies will be only too happy to create more of them!
I really didn't write this with the intention of flamebaiting or trolling - I'm just thoroughly pissed off at corporate greed, arrogance, and callousness.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
I have very limited experience with the local public schools in upstate New York, but I get the distinct impression that teachers mostly operate under the assumption that all kids are as dumb as the dumbest kids. I have a PhD in computer engineering, and my wife has two graduate degrees herself (law, information science). We were also in gifted classes in high school, and she was the valedictorian of her school. We're told we're smart, and it seems likely that our kids are pretty smart too. But it's hard for me to see where the curricula here accomodate any kind of range of intelligence among the students. When I try to ask about this sort of thing, there's this subtle resistance where you can tell they're thinking that all parents think their kids are the smartest, but really they're all just dumb as rocks, so the idea of anyone getting ahead makes no sense.
I hope I'm misinterpreting all of this.
Sorry, but it won't. They'll just fudge the numbers. The trouble your having here is your blind faith in the free market taking care of you. The solution is 20% more pay, it's protectionism. You can't possibly compete with foreign labor. Weight of numbers alone gives them an advantage. Some people don't need sleep. Some people can push themselves harder than others. There's 3 billion of them. The odds are in their favor. On top of that their economy means they can be trained for a fraction of the cost of you, and you can treat them as completely disposable. This isn't a fight you're going to win. It's like that old quote from Wargames (you old enough to remember that?): "The only way to win is not to play"...
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just lobby for "Leave No American Programmers Behind".
This is all part of tech's desire to drive tech wages down. Lets assume that in 15 years that 90% of high school graduates know how to code. What will that do to the tech labor pool? It will drive wages down. In the meantime, MSFT (founded by Bill Gates, who stole tech) and Mark Zuckerberg (who has been prolific as a liar) use FWD.US and lobby money to increase the H1B labor pool. Bottom line: this is all about driving business costs DOWN!
Meth?
The "Fascist Indoctrination Act" of 2015...
When we have a healthcare system that is massively overpriced, doctor shortages everywhere, and the only way to justify the extreme length of medical education is by paying out big salaries, I can't help but think this would be better served if applied to medicine. Additionally, many kids who would be doctors shy away because of the extreme investment which they can't afford. How much better would it be if we implemented some basic healthcare education into K-12 that would partially prepare the students for a range of healthcare fields, allowing us to cut down training times and increase our supply?