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Currently Quantum Computers Might Be Where Rockets Were At the Time of Goddard

schwit1 writes: If quantum computing is at the Goddard level that would be a good thing for quantum computing. This means that the major fundamental breakthrough that would put them over the top was in hand and merely a lot of investment, engineering and scaling was needed. The goal of being able to solve NP-hard or NP-Complete problems with quantum computers is similar to being able to travel to the moon, mars or deeper into space with rockets. Conventional flight could not achieve those goals because of the lack of atmosphere in space. Current computing seems like they are very limited in being able to tackle NP-hard and NP Complete problems. Although clever work in advanced mathematics and approximations can give answers that are close on a case by case basis.

23 of 112 comments (clear)

  1. Na, it's marketing hype. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Give something a fancy name and by-God it has to be a world-changing technology, right? I just don't see it. The hardware is difficult to build / maintain, doesn't scale, and so far nobody is quite sure what to even do with it.

    It's just a way to suck money out of venture capitalists and keep people busy in ivory towers. There's a reason that so many companies have the word 'quantum' in their name. It's all marketing hype.

    1. Re:Na, it's marketing hype. by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      I for one can't wait to play video games on my new Quantum computer.

      Bring it on, the graphics will be awesome!

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    2. Re:Na, it's marketing hype. by bistromath007 · · Score: 2

      You're aware that's how it works, right?

      When trains were a big deal, everything was "express." It's the whole reason we even use "express" to mean what it does today. When we first harnessed the atom, everything had to have something to do with radioactive junk, until such time as we figured out that was a bad idea. There's a reason the Fallout series is full of that stuff: the period it is supposed to be imitating did the same thing. In the jet age, we had the same deal as with trains, and that's also when various plastics got big. Plastic completely transformed our approach to industry. The weird, round, bubbly look things were given in the late 70s and early 80s was intentional, as it could only be economically done with plastic; we think of it as tacky today, but they actually wanted to show off that their stuff was made with plastic, or just invoke a "plastic" design aesthetic to give an impression of modernity.

      Society in general spends lots of time only spending money on things that are safe. This itself makes innovation less safe than it already is It's why "venture capitalist" sounds boring at best, and it's why "ivory tower" is a pejorative. Of course they're not doing anything useful. Nobody's giving them any money, so all they can do is think about all the cool shit they'd do if they had any. When those two groups start having the same goal for a little while, that's usually the prelude to a great historical leap. Because we recognize this, it can be, and often is, exploited by hucksters, obviously. But there's a reason it works: when you look at the pace things are moving, it feels like we're due.

  2. Or not by BitZtream · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because rockets were actually working at that point, maybe not refined, but still useful. Quantum computer is not useful in any way at this time.

    Quantum computing is still at the mumbo jumbo stage where they make really bold claims about what it can do in 1 or 2 really specific instances that all of 8 people on the planet care about, but then never follow through with a quantum machine that out performs a classical one in any way.

    Oh, and the answer(s) may not even be right and has to be checked using classical methods anyway.

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    1. Re:Or not by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Oh, and the answer(s) may not even be right and has to be checked using classical methods anyway.

      One of the primary characteristics of NP problems is that solutions are hard to find but easy to verify. It will take longer than the lifetime of the universe to find the best solution to a thousand city travelling salesman problem. But it takes less than a millisecond to verify that it is better than the previous best known path.

  3. Not to be taken seriously by rjh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Quantum computers cannot solve NP-Hard or NP-Complete problems -- at least, no faster than a classical computer. This is one of the most basic results in the field, and the author keeps on making hash of it. This article should not be taken seriously if it's rife with such basic errors.

    1. Re:Not to be taken seriously by csrster · · Score: 2

      Odd indeed, as this is stated quite explicitly at the bottom of the first slide-image he reproduces (which, incidentally, _assumes_ P != NP).

    2. Re:Not to be taken seriously by delt0r · · Score: 2

      I was about to post exactly that. In fact we have a small handful of algorithms where QC *may* be faster in practice, but none of these problems have been shown to be NP-hard/complete. And well i just don't see it really. Factorization takes a huge number of operations on the n-qbit register to factor a nbit number. Nosie etc is not a mear engineering problem. Its a fundamental problem. And even then such a computer can't help at all for a n+1 bit number.

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    3. Re:Not to be taken seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Quantum computers cannot solve NP-Hard or NP-Complete problems -- at least, no faster than a classical computer. This is one of the most basic results in the field, and the author keeps on making hash of it.

      No, in fact the basic result in the field is that it isn't known if quantum computers can solve NP-Hard or NP-Complete problems more efficiently than a classical computer.

      From a accessible article (http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/The_Limits_of_Quantum_Computers.pdf):

      "The question thus remains unanswered: Is there an efficient quantum algorithm to solve NP-complete problems? Despite much trying, no such algorithm has been found—though not surprisingly, computer scientists cannot prove that it does not exist."

    4. Re:Not to be taken seriously by K.+S.+Van+Horn · · Score: 2

      No, it has not yet been proven that quantum computers cannot efficiently solve NP-complete problems (i.e., that BQP does not contain NP). That would be a major breakthrough. It's strongly suspected that BQP does not contain NP, but so far we seem to lack the mathematical tools that would be required to prove such a thing.

    5. Re:Not to be taken seriously by delt0r · · Score: 2

      You also can't prove P!=NP........

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    6. Re:Not to be taken seriously by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      (which, incidentally, _assumes_ P != NP).

      That is actually a pretty good assumption, which millions of people implicitly make every day, by say, using cryptography that is only secure if P!=NP.

  4. Re:guys come on. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Quantum computing is like having an old Ford that's broken down, and you would like to fix it. With classical computing, you spend time troubleshooting, eventually identify the problem, order parts, install them, road test it, and you eventually have a working classic Ford again.

    With quantum computing, you have an old Ford that's broken down but not broken down at the same time. You simply ignore the broken down state and choose to use the working one. Problem solved.

  5. Dumbed down explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Stripping off the D-Wave Quantum nonsense:

    http://phys.org/news/2014-06-independent-group-d-wave-quantum-speedup.html

    "(Phys.org) —An independent research team with members affiliated with several universities in the U.S. and Switzerland has concluded that the D-Wave Two computer shows no signs of quantum speedup"

    -----

    It does a calculation known as 'constrained minimization'. so for a function f(x1,x2,x3....) where x1 has limits on acceptable values (constraints), x2 has limits, x2,...and so on, calculate a minimum value of f(x1,x2,x3...) and say at what x1,x2,x3,.... those values occur.

    In theory you could brute force this with noise (which would randomly change x1, x2 and x3, x4..., trying all possible values and filtering for ones that are within the constraints. D Wave claim to do it in quantum way, i.e. all possible values simultaneously being tested by the magic of Quantum Annealing. However their kit doesn't show that, and the results it generates under tests are often wrong, indicating all possible values have not been tested.

    So we have a problem here. It behaves like a noisy system being used to brute force a calculation, and like that system it generates wrong results because noise is random and spread across time, and you cannot know if you've given it enough time to get the optimal solution. And since we can run classical techniques for constrained minimization, we can find *better* solutions, and this prove it has not actually done the task!

    It also means it cannot possibly be doing Quantum Annealing because it has not tested all solutions. No amount of money will turn a brute force noise machine into a Quantum computer.

  6. Goddard? Not so fast... by goodmanj · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Currently Quantum Computers Might Be Where Rockets Were At the Time of Goddard"

    Designed on totally incorrect physics?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    The true revolutionaries of rocket propulsion all have German last names.

  7. Yeah, but... by Viol8 · · Score: 2

    To be fair, no one apart from a few vested interests are claiming that quantum computers are some sort of magical panacea. But just like modern graphics GPUs, they could be built into ordinary computers and used when the problem domain suits their capabilities.

  8. Every new technology... by sjbe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Give something a fancy name and by-God it has to be a world-changing technology, right? I just don't see it.

    So because you can't understand it, it must not be of any consequence? I think that says more about you than it does about the technology.

    The hardware is difficult to build / maintain, doesn't scale, and so far nobody is quite sure what to even do with it.

    That sounds like pretty much every new technology ever. The first computers were difficult to build and maintain, didn't scale well and people weren't entirely sure what to do with them outside of a few narrow use cases. The first airplanes were difficult to build and maintain, didn't scale well, and... etc. We figured it out eventually. Probably will with quantum computing too in due time.

  9. Not an advertisement either... by dfm3 · · Score: 2

    ...but a research paper. And a BADLY written one at that. One that, if submitted by one of my freshmen students, I'd probably assign a D+ if I was feeling generous.

    Even after parsing the confusing sentence structure in the first couple paragraphs, I gave up before figuring out exactly how the figures (which look like snapshots of some PowerPoint lecture or presentation? What's the source??) tie in with their overall thesis - which seems to be some poorly formed analogy between the history of flight and quantum computing.

    And they cited Wikipedia... ugh.

  10. Yeah sure, this and nuclear fusion, right? by NotDrWho · · Score: 2

    Big breakthrough just around the corner!

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  11. Re:Goddard? Not so fast... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

    I think that comparing "being able to solve NP-hard or NP-Complete problems" to "travel to the moon, mars or deeper into space with rockets" is a much worse offender, since the latter clearly doesn't violate the laws of physics whereas the former probably might.

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  12. Re:Goddard? Not so fast... by quanminoan · · Score: 2

    Eh, Goddard quickly learned that didn't work and went on to make this:

    http://i.space.com/images/i/00...

    Where Goddard failed apparently was in his paranoid insistence on secrecy.

  13. Re:Goddard? Not so fast... by thrich81 · · Score: 2

    Well, that's an ignorant comment of yours. The mods need to do a little checking before modding up.
    Here (http://airandspace.si.edu/explore-and-learn/multimedia/detail.cfm?id=2888) is a picture from the mid-30's of Goddard with one of his rockets which was equivalent or better than the Germans' at the time.
    Here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_H._Goddard) is a statement by von Braun himself about Goddard's work:
    "Nevertheless, in 1963, von Braun, reflecting on the history of rocketry, said of Goddard: "His rockets ... may have been rather crude by present-day standards, but they blazed the trail and incorporated many features used in our most modern rockets and space vehicles". He once recalled that "Goddard's experiments in liquid fuel saved us years of work, and enabled us to perfect the V-2 years before it would have been possible."
    And from the same wiki article:
    Three features developed by Goddard appeared in the V-2: (1) turbopumps were used to inject fuel into the combustion chamber; (2) gyroscopically controlled vanes in the nozzle stabilized the rocket until external vanes in the air could do so; and (3) excess alcohol was fed in around the combustion chamber walls, so that a blanket of evaporating gas protected the engine walls from the combustion heat."

  14. Unfortunately, it is not by gweihir · · Score: 2

    Quantum computing is about where teleportation, strong AI, a perfect cure for cancer, etc. is, namely it is completely unclear whether it will ever work. All this bullshit about Quantum Computing is just that: Bullshit. We do not even know whether the physics allows it, all we know is that the current theory (which we know is incomplete and inaccurate) would allow it if it was accurate.

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