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Mozilla CEO: Windows 10 Strips User Choice For Browsers and Other Software
puddingebola writes: Mozilla CEO Chris Beard has sent an open letter to Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella complaining about the default settings in Windows 10. Users who upgrade to 10 will have their default browser automatically changed to the new Edge browser. Beard said, "We appreciate that it’s still technically possible to preserve people’s previous settings and defaults, but the design of the whole upgrade experience and the default settings APIs have been changed to make this less obvious and more difficult. It now takes more than twice the number of mouse clicks, scrolling through content and some technical sophistication for people to reassert the choices they had previously made in earlier versions of Windows. It’s confusing, hard to navigate and easy to get lost. ... We strongly urge you to reconsider your business tactic here and again respect people’s right to choice and control of their online experience by making it easier, more obvious and intuitive for people to maintain the choices they have already made through the upgrade experience.
Try using a non-Safari-based browser in iOS
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Lemme repost directly from HN for convenience:
Ha, the EU will be all over this. Microsoft were supposedly turning themselves around, not opening themselves up for more fines from EU courts.
- Dan
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Microsoft has caught the smell of Firefox's current weakness and is exploiting it.
What to watch: will Firefox's marketshare drop to the point where Firefox no longer has any impetus in pushing for, or moving towards, new web standards? A browser's marketshare needs to be over 20% (some say, well over 20%) for the browser to have that amount of gravitas.
Perhaps this default settings quarrel is Microsoft trying to grab a lump of marketshare for Edge, giving Edge a big boost towards that 25% mark and cementing Edge as a replacement for Firefox in setting web standards.
I don't think anything's changed about the degree to which IE or NewIE is part of the OS since Windows 7. What's changed is that browsers can't set themselves to be the default any more - the user has to do it explicitly in the system settings.
Personally, I thought the Windows 8.1 way of doing it was better. But I don't think this is as terrible a change as being suggested.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Anybody else see a big fine for Microsoft on the horizon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
"fuck you, I'll stick with my Windows 8.1". ----- giahwaaaht?
I like MS but not their new stuff? I brain froze on the rest of what you had to say...
Just like how a semi-recent firefox update forced a new search engine on users by changing my long accepted default. The irony is delicious!
Microsoft's obligations in the US case ended in 2007, and they were willing to extend the terms of their settlement until 2012. They're not legally required to do anything anymore. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
I don't think so, browsers have always, until now, been able to set themselves as default, even back during the Netscape wars.
And they're not asserting ownership of your computer. What they've done is created a hamfisted (and biased towards Microsoft - yeah, I don't like it either) interface that replaces third parties modifying your computer with or without your consent. They had a better system in Windows 8.1, and should revert to that, but nonetheless, I don't actually like the idea of a browser being able to set itself up as default. I prefer myself to make that decision. Fortunately, the mainstream browsers have, until now, always at least asked for permission before changing the defaults, but that's not something they should have been allowed to do to begin with.
If we want this changed, we need to be a little less hyperbolic, because the issue here is that the new change isn't user friendly and is biased towards Microsoft, not ludicrous claims that Microsoft is taking control of your PC in some way it wasn't before. If you complain about the latter, expect your ticket to be closed with a "INVALID. Not actually a description of a real problem."
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
When I upgraded to Windows 10 yesterday, there was a screen that came up that asked me if I wanted to reset the default apps. I said no for my browser and media player, and when it completed, Chrome and VLC were still the default applications. I think it's a little underhanded, but not as underhanded as the article suggests.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
-5 troll article here.
I just installed Windows 10 last night. After the install was complete and you log in the first time, it asks you which of the installed browsers you would like to use. It still had Chrome, I selected it and it has since used it.
Does Mozilla want theirs to be at the top of the list? Do they expect that Windows 10 will carry over every setting from 7, 8, and 8.1?
Did the Mozilla CEO even try to install Windows 10 before firing off a message complaining?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Launching another browser presents the usual "do you want me to be default" dialog. It's completely trivial to change your browser preference. Yes, I would have preferred if Microsoft had left my browser preferences alone with the upgrade, but this is blown a bit out of proportion.
It's also a bit disingenuous to compare today's situation to the Internet Explorer case that's literally 20 years old. I find it improbable to believe that anyone using Windows 10 is unaware of alternative browsers availability.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
When I upgraded to Windows 10 yesterday, there was a screen that came up that asked me if I wanted to reset the default apps. I said no for my browser and media player, and when it completed, Chrome and VLC were still the default applications. I think it's a little underhanded, but not as underhanded as the article suggests.
Mozilla is whining anyway; when they switched search providers from Google to Yahoo I had to go through and specify it on EVERY INSTANCE of Firefox I have. Since I use --no-remote and segment my web browsing this was actually a royal pain in the ass. Granted, Google was the old "default," so I had never changed it, but it was still an undesired change in behavior. If they're going to whine about Microsoft doing the same thing then they ought to look at their own behavior.
Firefox is still my browser of choice for personal use but for others I've started to recommend Chrome. It's just less hassle to support it for your luser friends. The future of Firefox and Mozilla is not an encouraging one, which is a pity.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Nope.
Apparently it's too hard for a CEO to parse the upgrade page where it asks "Do you want to use the windows defaults or your old defaults for opening programs?". I wasn't paying the most attention to the part after, but I vaguely recall maybe even a mini tutorial on rightclick > open with > set as default from the list after clicking OK from the keep my default settings page.
Not saying there is nothing wrong with Windows 10, the start menu for instance is NOT worth a shit.... it is just a list in alphabetical order of programs with no sane grouping. Thankfully classic shell has a build that works with 10. Other than the one 8.1 laptop I upgraded I think I will keep my win7 machines for a while.
To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
I actually really like the way they implemented it in Window 10. As far as I can tell, It's no longer possible for the browser to change the default browser for you. They can bring up the screen to change the option, but the user has to change the option themselves. This is much better than the old functionality where applications would constantly be setting themselves as the default application either with no warning or with a simple yes/no dialog. Making it take more clicks is a good thing.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Yeah, I agree. I think this issue is a little overrated.
When I installed FF on Windows 10, it was slightly more difficult to make it my default browser, in that I had to click maybe 3 times instead of only 1 or 2 times as I would have on Windows 7.
The way it looks to me, MS is trying to make it harder for hijackers to silently take your defaults.
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
Here's the problem - Firefox/Chrome/etc ask you if you want them to be the default browser. The ability for the program to set the preference is the problem.
If you don't see the problem, let me rephrase it. I create SuperWebBrowser. I think it's so super, I will make it the default browser on everyone's machine. So I do that. Why should I ask the user? It's so super they'll want it.
If you still don't get it, then how about, I create WebBrowserSpy and set it as default. It launches an instance of your normal web browser but hooked so it can spy at your traffic and even get at HTTPS data after it's been decrypted.
Just because the good guys ask, doesn't mean everyone else has to. In fact, if you're particularly nasty, if that setting is changed, you can always reset it back.
And you'll be surprised, but both scenarios are common - many management types can't understand that people might just want to use your software as necessary, and they don't need or want it to be the default shell, the default web browser, to pin itself to the task bar and start menu and all sorts of other things. After all, after buying a copy of SuperApplication, why wouldn't you want it in your face everywhere you look? I mean, it's a great application.
It's why Microsoft doesn't provide APIs to pin applications to the task bar, start menu and a few other things. Heck, I'm surprised no installer decides to go change your desktop wallpaper on you after you install an app. After all, it's super, and you'll not want to live without it...
I'm pretty sure this was arrogance, but not malice, on MS's part: they really want to shift the IE userbase to Edge and drop IE support in some future release. Can you blame them? But in their arrogance they didn't remember (or didn't care) that quite a large portion of Windows users don't run IE in the first place.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
FTS: "We strongly urge you to reconsider your business tactic here and again respect people’s right to choice and control of their online experience by making it easier, more obvious and intuitive for people to maintain the choices they have already made through the upgrade experience.
Oh... you mean the way you guys did when you both inflicted Australis on the world and changed the default search engine to Yahoo?
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
Users who upgrade to 10 will have their default browser automatically changed to the new Edge browser
No they won't. It popped up a screen that asked me if I wanted to change my defaults for four common tasks to the new Win10 apps for those tasks. Photos, videos, music, and browser. I clicked no on each, and my old defaults carried over.