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Obama Unveils Major Climate Change Proposal
An anonymous reader writes: Two years in the making, President Obama formally unveiled his plan to cut power plant emissions today, calling it the "single most important step that America has ever made in the fight against global climate change." The "Clean Power Plan" includes the first ever EPA standards on carbon pollution from power plants. CNN reports: "Under the plan, the administration will require states to meet specific carbon emission reduction standards, based on their individual energy consumption. The plan also includes an incentive program for states to get a head start on meeting standards on early deployment of renewable energy and low-income energy efficiency."
Expect the first half of the posts from the, "the world is ending, fix global warming/climate change/AGW down!" crowd.
Expect the second half of the posts from the, "drill, baby drill, economy and jobs, save the middle class, solar is too expensive, burn more coal" crowd.
And nothing will be changed, resolved, or decided.
I've been waiting for deniers to move from
1) Global warming doesnt exist
2) Global warming may exist but its not manmade
to
3) Global warming does exit but there is nothing we can do about it.
Too bad there werent some enlightened people who warned about this early enough to do something about it. oh wait...
As for wealth transfer, you are deluded if you dont think the current state, of wealthy "deniers" stoking denial, clamoring for tax cuts are not doing their own wealth transfer, only in the opposite direction. They probably correctly deduce that the wealthier they are the easier it will be for them to withstand the effects of climate change, while the poor saps they convince to deny science will be the ones that will be hurt the most.
First, we aren't feeling the impact of climate change. For all the fear mongering, the oceans haven't risen, the weather is fine, and life has been carrying on.
first- we are feeling the impact of climate change. oh i'm sorry, have i interfered with your unsupported assertion by making my own unsupported assertion ?
the oceans have risen:
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/f...
Sea levels have been rising over the 20th century. This, and a host of other evidence say we _are_ experiencing the effects of climate change.
yes, life is carrying on. and it will continue to carry on even at such time as that carrying on becomes very, very difficult. so what the hell is your point ?
At this point, we're just moving the deck chairs around the Titanic, or perhaps put another way, we using a bucket brigade to try and get the water out of the ship. Nice idea, but pointless when the ship is still going to sink.
The standard denier bullshit. We can't do anything , we should just get over it. Except that the standard denier bullshit used to be "there is no climate change". Now, it's "oh yeah, maybe there is, but we should just get used to it".
By doing something NOW, we can make future impact less. BTW, what exactly do you have against dumping more shit into the air ? remember when they put lead in gasoline ? Should we have just left it in , because we had already dumped so much into the environment that it was "too late" to do anything about it ?
If the AGW people are wrong, then this is just a wealth transfer and overreaching power grab from big government.
your true slashdot, libertarian colors revealed.
Absolute statements are never true
Do you seriously believe that switching to LED bulbs and driving a car that gets only 29mpg (which is terrible gas mileage in reality, only relative to your other gas guzzler does it seem reasonable) will achieve anything? Even if every single person in the world did this, it would make no effective difference.
The real waste is at the front end, where power is generated, and the only fix for that is "top down" legislation to force the providers to do something about the emissions and inefficiency. And that pretty much has to be dictated because industry has shown time and time and time again that it won't regulate itself if left to its own devices.
Some things simply cannot be solved by laissez faire capitalism. In fact it creates many problems, which is obvious to anyone willing to open their eyes for two seconds. That does not mean that the solution is the opposite, a totally planned central economy, but a sensible mix of the two. The knee-jerk reactionary repugnance to anything with even the mildest whiff of small-s 'socialism' is seriously damaging. It damages the health and happiness of every person, and now it is seriously damaging the planet. Nothing is black or white, perhaps a little subtlety should be given its chance. People have been sold the right-wing view for so long now they've forgotten what the middle ground even is. Centre-right policies are seen as far left, which is ridiculous.
"First, we aren't feeling the impact of climate change. For all the fear mongering, the oceans haven't risen, the weather is fine, and life has been carrying on."
Errrr, what? The oceans have definitely been measurably rising.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Just because Manhattan isn't underwater doesn't mean we don't measure and observe it.
"Second, we aren't the last generation who can do something about it. Depending on who you listen to, either we have already passed the point of no return, or we have a long time to worry about it."
We've definitely already passed the point of return for no changes. The question from here on out is how much damage we want to do in addition to what's already been done. There isn't an upper limit to the damage due to global warming. That's like saying "Oh gosh, I'm in debt. Whelp, guess I'll just spend whatever I want because I'm already in debt!" It's nonsensical double talk from someone who's claiming that global warming is both not a thing, and it's too late to do anything about it anyway.
I think capitalism could solve it, it's just that by the time AGW began kicking the living shit out of the economy and causing widespread ecological damage, much of it would be irreversible.
But guys like the Koch's want it that way. They'll walk away with vast amounts of money and insulate themselves from the woes being suffered by everyone else. We are literally allowing our economic and political systems be completely co-opted to serve a tiny fraction of the population. And worse, many of us actually think that the Heartland Institute and the Wall Street Journal are some sort of purveyors of truth.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The US power industry puts out 5% of the worlds carbon and this plan will cut it by 1.5% over how many years? China on average is bringing on a new power plant every 10 days. Please explain how this insignificant but costly plan is going to affect climate change?
I still am, it isn't their job to pick winners.
No but their job is to serve the greater good and legislating on energy efficiency in that regard is no different from mandating health and safety standards, or telling the local coal plant that they can't simply produce cheaper energy by dumping sludge into the river rather than disposing of it correctly.
Every single decision ever made by a government results in picking winners, whether specifically by technology as in this case, or by trade agreements, setting minimum standards, or in some cases even granting specific monopoly by flat out funding a project using tax payers money.
You must have a different definition of "experiencing the effects" than everyone else does.
They do have a different definition. They feel problems. They feel solutions.
If they can't feel the problem (such as the problem that the solution they feel increases the poverty of people other than them) then its not a problem.
These are a shitbags that dont understand that the number one killer in the world is poverty, that more than twice the population of the United States is way below the international poverty line in India alone. They are selfish self-centered coastal living fucks that have no sense of scale. They are extremely concerned that some people (such as themselves) might eventually be displaced by the extremely slow rise of the ocean, but are amazingly not outraged at all that the policies that they have pushed for cause people to die now.
You've heard of 1st world problems? This worry about sea level rise is the extreme form of that. They already feel it, even though they havent been displaced and need to be told by someone else that its even happening. And its more important that what we do about it feels like a solution rather than is a solution.
"His name was James Damore."
Some things simply cannot be solved by laissez faire capitalism. In fact it creates many problems, which is obvious to anyone willing to open their eyes for two seconds. That does not mean that the solution is the opposite, a totally planned central economy, but a sensible mix of the two. The knee-jerk reactionary repugnance to anything with even the mildest whiff of small-s 'socialism' is seriously damaging. It damages the health and happiness of every person, and now it is seriously damaging the planet. Nothing is black or white, perhaps a little subtlety should be given its chance. People have been sold the right-wing view for so long now they've forgotten what the middle ground even is. Centre-right policies are seen as far left, which is ridiculous.
It's not a mild whiff of "socialism". It's a massive restructuring of our society and economy on shaky grounds. What happens when the next imaginary ecothreat comes through? If we continue to use the same decision-making process as we're doing here, then it's going to be a long stream of poor decisions and a descent either into regional dissolution or even a new dark age, if the whole world should buy in for the duration.
Imaginary threats don't harm us. Real threats do. We're facing the real threat of global warming. Instead of taking an honest look at the science and possible solutions, you look the potential bill and say any solution is impossible. Nevermind if the bill would include the price to get the world off fossil fuels and eliminate our gas payments forever. Nevermind if the bill would remove the motivation behind wars for oil and the trillions we've spent for those. Nevermind if the bill would clean up our air and eliminate smog and cut our medical payments for lung conditions. So, we live with your shortsightedness in a worse world where we constantly pay for gas with our money and lives.
Basically, it is the extremists that are killing America, and even the west.
Many ppl note the fact that the far right HATES science and pick and choose what they want to. And they are correct.
However few ppl have noticed the fact that the far left HATES science and pick and choose what they want to.
Take the case of AGW. A rational person says that the science is overwhelming in favor of AGW. Therefore the smart thing is to drop our CO2 and relatively soon.
BUT, if you run the numbers, you will see that we NEED nukes. In particular, we need gen IV nukes since they can not meltdown. In addition, these can make use of the nuke waste/ aboveground thorium, rather than mining for U.
Yet, the far left fights it. And the far right, really has not done SQUAT for the nuke industry.
Then you have the fact that the far left screams about America's emissions. Yet, current calculated numbers from 2013 show that China accounts for more than 30% of CO2, while the entire west accounts for less than 28%. In addition, China's emission far outweigh even America's emissions. Both in current, as well as total since 150 years ago, or even 1000 years ago.
And that does not include what OCO2 is showing. OCO2's numbers are showing that CHina's emission is well over 40%, and probably closer to 45%. That is HUGE. Absolutely fucking HUGE.
BUT, what does the far left do? They scream that America needs to buy wind/solar from China and continue to drop our emissions. At the same time, they claim that China's growing their Wind/solar faster than America, while ignoring the fact that China's % of electricity from Coal grows EVERY YEAR, and is now in the high 80s.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Sorry, your heroes are shit and I'm not sure why I should listen to them or anyone who claims I need to listen to them.
You've conveniently listed all examples of politicians instead of PhD scientists (3 of them, in fact, and 0 scientists). The GP said "PhD scientists". How exactly are the two anything alike?
The function of one is to lie through their teeth and the function of the other is to perform fundamental research. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader which one is which.
You mean, like the people in Bangkok who are feeling the problem of sea level rise every day (of course, they're also doing it to themselves due to over pumping of ground water)? Even if they stopped pumping water, that 2.5mm/year is still going to drown them very soon. Then again, I'm guessing they're all just "selfish self-centered coastal living fucks that have no sense of scale", and are all above the poverty line...oh wait....