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Obama Unveils Major Climate Change Proposal

Posted by samzenpus on from the it's-getting-hot-in-here dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Two years in the making, President Obama formally unveiled his plan to cut power plant emissions today, calling it the "single most important step that America has ever made in the fight against global climate change." The "Clean Power Plan" includes the first ever EPA standards on carbon pollution from power plants. CNN reports: "Under the plan, the administration will require states to meet specific carbon emission reduction standards, based on their individual energy consumption. The plan also includes an incentive program for states to get a head start on meeting standards on early deployment of renewable energy and low-income energy efficiency."

6 of 413 comments (clear)

  1. Obama should do a fact check... by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ""We're the first generation to feel the impact of climate change and the last generation that can do something about it," Obama said on Monday."

    ---

    While that sounds nice when he is giving a speech, there are two problems with the above sentence.

    First, we aren't feeling the impact of climate change. For all the fear mongering, the oceans haven't risen, the weather is fine, and life has been carrying on.

    Second, we aren't the last generation who can do something about it. Depending on who you listen to, either we have already passed the point of no return, or we have a long time to worry about it.

    If AGW supporters are correct, then the changes being proposed won't change the outcome by enough to matter. We had to do all this 30+ years ago and get the world on board as well. A few cuts here and there will be swamped by the growth in the global economy and the number of new power plants being built every year. China alone is building a new coal plant every month.

    At this point, we're just moving the deck chairs around the Titanic, or perhaps put another way, we using a bucket brigade to try and get the water out of the ship. Nice idea, but pointless when the ship is still going to sink.

    So if the AGW people are right (and they might be, I wouldn't discount smart people so easily), then we need to start adapting to the change that is coming regardless of what we do.

    If the AGW people are wrong, then this is just a wealth transfer and overreaching power grab from big government.

    1. Re:Obama should do a fact check... by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sea levels have been rising over the 20th century. This, and a host of other evidence say we _are_ experiencing the effects of climate change.

      You feel a rise of 0.12 inches a year? So in 10 years, oceans should be 1.2 inches higher?

      I don't know about you, but that doesn't strike me as something that 99.9% of anyone would notice, unless told about.

      You must have a different definition of "experiencing the effects" than everyone else does.

      Sea levels have been rising over the 20th century.

      Ok, so you're saying that global warming started 115 years ago? So that MUST make it all man-made, no chance that it could be anything else, right?

      yes, life is carrying on. and it will continue to carry on even at such time as that carrying on becomes very, very difficult. so what the hell is your point ?

      I'm sorry that your mind is so closed as to have missed the point. First, you make the assumption that life will become very, very difficult. You don't know that.

      Second, you don't know that any climate change can be avoided anyway, so all your efforts might amount to a fly trying to move an elephant.

      The standard denier bullshit. We can't do anything , we should just get over it. Except that the standard denier bullshit used to be "there is no climate change". Now, it's "oh yeah, maybe there is, but we should just get used to it".

      When you use words like denier, you show yourself to be closed as well. You assume AGW is proven fact and that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. Except, it isn't proven, many disagree, and you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are.

      By doing something NOW, we can make future impact less.

      You don't know that... actually, I think you're wrong. The "doing something" part has to be enough to make a change, and from what I've read, the changes proposed wouldn't do that.

      But you're ignoring that part. Bailing water out of the Titanic is in fact "doing something NOW", but it doesn't change the outcome of the ship sinking.

      But you aren't open and honest enough to accept that possibility, you assume that if you DO SOMETHING NOW, then all will be right. In the process you want to create a mess of another kind, without any assurance that your actions change anything.

    2. Re:Obama should do a fact check... by Rockoon · · Score: 1, Interesting

      When the water comes up and stays there, where exactly will you move 120 million people, Antartica?

      You are proving the god damned point I made in spades. You clearly have no sense in scale, at all. Lets put the situation on the table:

      Bangladesh has one of the highest child malnutrition rates in the world, with almost 40% of its children being malnourished. 40% of all births in the country are by girls age 18 or less. 127,000 children under the age of 5 die each and every year. 38 out of every 1000 children never even see their first god damned birthday. Only 43% of the population is fucking literate. 43% of the people live below the international poverty line. A massive 77% of the people have suffered severe dehydration requiring oral re-hydration salts.

      These people do not need solar panels, or god damned wind farms. What these people need is cheap energy, a stable government, economic freedom, and maybe some fucking help before that meaningful shit happens.

      Yet you are here feeling their plight.... about sea level rise. You proved the fucking point you selfish evil prick. You have no fucking sense at all of scale. Typical western liberal statist ignorant asshole. Selfishly doesnt give a fuck about things that really matter today.

      If you really cared about the people of Bangladesh you would get a fucking sense of scale, put some cash in an envelope, address it to one of the major charity organizations operating there, and ask others to do the same. But instead we see you justifying your feelings about sea level rise/global warming and quite despicably trying to use the people of Bangladesh as an excuse to push the solution that you feel.

      Go fuck yourself you selfish evil prick.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  2. Re:Oh Great! More Central Planning! Just what we n by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ....because you've already taken the problem into your hands and reduced your carbon output.

    I have actually... and more people do every day...

    I spent a few hundred dollars to replace all my incandescent bulbs in my home with LED bulbs. And I was ranting a few years ago against government over reach when they wanted to ban incandescent bulbs. I still am, it isn't their job to pick winners.

    LED bulbs did get down to a price point where they make sense, now it comes down to education to make people aware of how much money they save. My payback period on those bulbs is just over a year, maybe 15 months. That is a no-brainer if there ever was one. People talk about solar systems having 7 to 10 year paybacks, yet ignore the one that has less than 2 years of payback.

    I also recently purchased a car for the first time in almost 20 years. My primary vehicle is a 2015 Yukon XL Denali, a wonderful vehicle that burns crap loads of gas, but is very useful for moving my family, their friends, and stuff. However, if it is just me, or just me and my wife, it is overkill... So now I also own a 2014 Ford Taurus that gets 29 MPH on the highway. It is still comfortable and filled with nice stuff, but it burns almost half the fuel of my big truck and I make a point to drive it instead of the truck when I don't need the truck.

    Now I'm thankfully in the position that I can afford to buy another vehicle, not everyone is. I figure that the gas savings pays for the insurance on it, so it isn't "free" or even "cheap", but it does reduce my carbon and pollution footprint.

    And I'm a Republican! So not all of us want to just "drill, baby drill" until it is all gone. But the solutions should be reasonable and take into account everyone, not just top down central planning.

  3. Re:Oh boy, here we go... by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm not saying that solar and wind are pie-in-the-sky.

    Neither am I... I live in Texas and we're now one of the largest wind producers in the US, making some 9% of our power from wind last time I looked.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Now... Wind DOES cost more than coal and natural gas, no matter what the AGW people want to say. I buy my power from a competitive marketplace, I can pick from dozens of different power suppliers, and wind costs more than coal does.

    To be specific, I just signed a new contract for power for my business, I'm paying 6.2 cents per kWh for the first 2,000 kWh and 6.8 cents after that. That is the total delivered price and it is a fairly even mix of coal, natural gas, and nuclear, with about 6% of the total being "renewable".

    If I wanted all wind power, then the price goes to 9.1 cents per kWh for the first 2,000 kWh and 9.6 cents after that.

    Of course, a nice carbon tax could fix that in a hurry, if that is what we as a country wanted to do.

  4. Re:Oh boy, here we go... by Daemonik · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I've always wondered, if you hate Social Justice Warriors, does that make you a Social Injustice Warrior? I mean, that's a weird thing to stand proudly behind, social injustice.