Google: Poor Kids Might Grasp Macbeth If They Code Like Kids At $43K/Yr School

theodp writes: While the CollegeBoard warned against drawing a causal link between learning computer science and improved learning in other subjects, Google has no such qualms. "CS is much more than computer programming and coding," writes the Google for Education blog in a post announcing a new gateway for Google's CS education opportunities. "It's a gateway to creativity and innovation not just in technology but in fields as diverse as music, sports, the arts, and health." Among the technology showcased at the gateway is Pencil Code, a programming tool for beginning coders that Google boasts is already helping kids attending the $43K-a-year Beaver Country Day School to brush up their Shakespeare by having students create interactive chatbots that play the part of characters like Lady Macbeth. "After completing this code I knew more and understood more of the play," begins one student's featured testimonial. "It allowed me to interpret Macbeth in a new way that I had never thought of before. I really enjoyed using Pencil Code because it made coding simpler for me and helped me try something new." Elsewhere on its CS gateway, Google laments that a new Google-Gallup Research Study shows that 'Blacks and low-income are less likely to have access' to such computer science opportunities.

Comments

Underestimating

[jblues]

I often find myself under-estimating children's abilities. In this case TFA child's programming, empathy and literature skills are impressive, but their ability to speak such fluent 'customer testimonial' at a young age is simply astounding.

Re:Underestimating

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, learning such a testimonial by heart is certainly less work than learning the part of Lady MacBeth for a class play, and the language is more akin to the sentence fragments school kids communicate with these days than Early Modern English, too.

At any rate: stereotypical behavior patterns/roles are only remotely connected to stereotypical speech patterns, so I don't really see how chat bots play into understanding MacBeth.

To me that seems like a lot of hogwash intended to impress computer illiterate people in order to make them less adverse to computer fadism in education.

Correlation != Cause

[msobkow]

All of these articles about CS lately confuse correlation with cause.

The simple fact of the matter is that kids who enjoy the "challenge" of programming are more likely to be logical, analytical thinkers than their peers, and are therefore likely to do better at all subjects that require those skills. Taking a CS course is not "causing" them to be better at those other subjects -- their ability is innate.

Forcing someone to take a class they neither enjoy nor are good at is not going to magically make them better students. It will expand their experience with different subjects, but it's not going to make them good at it.

Re:Correlation != Cause

[gstoddart]

You know, a good quality education, and engaged parents can probably go a long way to fostering both ability and aptitude.

From what I can see, kids are like sponges. All things being equal, give them opportunities and teach them, and they'll just get better.

But pretending like CS is some mag bullet which makes all kids smarter and excel at all things is just plain fantasy.

The one and only time in school I was sufficiently afraid of failing an exam than I intended to cheat, I spent a bunch of hours reviewing it, summarizing it, making tiny little notes I could use for cheating ... and found myself in the class realizing that, quite shockingly, I understood the material.

I don't think it's the magic of creating a chatbot which made these kids understand Macbeth. I think it's the fact that they spent time studying and interacting with it on a level other than simply reading through the play.

I'm all for giving kids access to computers and encouraging them. But I think it's a complete crock to claim that the act of learning to code improved their understanding of Macbeth. The act of studying Macbeth in a personal way improved their understanding of Macbeth.

Similar results are possible with any subject

[Required Snark]

It's not about teaching computer programming because software is "special". It's about coming in with extra resources and teaching anything with a high degree of rigor. This could be done with math, English, Latin, Biology, even gardening. (I worked people who were involved with what became the charter school movement, and they used a school yard garden to coordinate teaching biology, math and other subjects. Yes, grades went up in all subjects.)

So surprise, surprise, a company with a big stake in software finds the coding is the key subject. If this were being done in Nevada, the magic subject might be probability and statistics...

Oh bullshit

[argStyopa]

Just another example of the classically American naive conceit that "poverty happens" to people randomly, like a strike of lightning from the blue, and not (mostly) from a series of really bad life choices, something which is plausibly heritable.

My point isn't that poor people can't enjoy Macbeth, but teaching them to code isn't going to make a person like something they didn't enjoy before,, either.

Re:Oh bullshit

[asylumx]

What poor life choices do you suppose grade school students made that landed them in poverty?

Re:Oh bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, their parents are poor which means they obviously made poor life choices [citation needed]. And since poor choice making is clearly hereditary [citation needed], even if the kids haven't made poor choices YET they likely would have if the ball had been in their court [citation needed]. So it hardly matters from an ethical perspective.

Re:Oh bullshit

[hattig]

Those are an effect of being in poverty.

Sure, a few rich idiots fall down into poverty each year, but we're talking about multi-generational poverty here.

No "life choice" at all here.

Your parents are poor. You are born. You miss out of toys, learning, experience all through your young life. A parent becomes ill but without insurance or money you have to quit school to look after them. Or your dad is an alcoholic and you have to leave home... basically, you're fucked already and you aren't even an adult yet.

pay your f**king taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe if google paid their taxes you wouldnt have this problem, you have to admire their chutzpa though,
they want to get involved in public education but dont want to pay for it at all,
meantime your schools have to beg for pencils http://www.donorschoose.org/

you should be running them out of all education/government contracts

Re:This is just propaganda to get cheaper labour

[LaurenCates]

Yep. And how about things like:

"How to appreciate learning"
"How to think logically"
"How to negotiate a better salary"
"How to be self-reliant"
"How to deal with your emotions as a teenager when your hormones are running wild (aka: You're not the first one to ever have that problem)"

Seems like when there's a hot subject, we push for kids to learn that, when really, it should be more like things that kids can practically use and apply everywhere.

Re:This old geek could never grasp Macbeth

[Anonymous Coward]

So what the fuck is so hot about grasping that "to be or not tobe" thingy?

I'm pretty sure that's Hamlet.

Re:This old geek could never grasp Macbeth

[hawguy]

So what the fuck is so hot about grasping that "to be or not tobe" thingy?

2B | ~2B = FF is simple binary arithmetic, if you can't grasp that maybe you shouldn't be a developer.