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Company Testing Standardized Salaries Is Struggling

jmcbain writes: In April 2015, Dan Price, the CEO of online payments company Gravity Payments based in Seattle, announced that all employees would have their salary bumped up to a minimum $70,000. Slashdot covered this news. Since that time, however, things have not gone well. Some employees quit because they felt it was unfair to double the pay of some new hires while the longest-serving staff members got small or no raises. Furthermore, after reducing his own salary from $1M to $70K, Mr. Price is now renting a house 'to make ends meet'. On an unrelated note, Mr. Price's brother, who is a co-founder of the company, is suing him.

27 of 480 comments (clear)

  1. Ha! by enigma32 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Imagine that.

    Differences in pay exist for a reason: Because different people perform functions of different value to the company.

    1. Re: Ha! by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just don't let anybody from the occupy movement hear that, or else they'll give you an earful about how they deserve both:

      1) A high paying job because dammit, they're human beings, and they deserve it!
      2) Low price rent in a high cost, high demand, area. Because again, being human and having feelings means they deserve it.

    2. Re:Ha! by khasim · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not really. In the military, for example, no matter what your speciality is, you are paid the same. Based upon rank, time in service and time in grade.

      I think that he went about it in the wrong way. Not that the core concept is flawed.

    3. Re:Ha! by 0123456 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not really. In the military, for example, no matter what your speciality is, you are paid the same. Based upon rank, time in service and time in grade.

      And this company is doing the equivalent of paying a private on his first day the same as a Colonel who's been in the army for ten years.

      Who could have guessed that would cause problems?

    4. Re: Ha! by Locando · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You seem to have lost track of the topic of the article, which was that a CEO himself raised the wages of his lowest-paid employees. Are you saying there's something entitled about his running a business according to his values? Or do you actually have a problem with his values but are too... something (insecure? incapable?) to actually mount a coherent moral argument against them?

      The housing price stuff is a related but separate issue. Lots of NIMBYs causing that issue are otherwise quite conservative. And there are at least a few on the left with supply solutions to the problem caused by demand. (Or we could of course go the route of public housing with standardized, non-market-based prices, but something tells me you wouldn't be a fan of that bit of hard-nosed realism.)

    5. Re:Ha! by waynemcdougall · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Imagine that.

      Differences in pay exist for a reason: Because different people perform functions of different value to the company.

      No. This is a common mistake. It is wrong.

      Differences in pay exist because of supply and demand. If there are many people willing to do your job, then pay for that job will be low, even if your job is valuable (see nursing, teaching, etc). Yes, many jobs we "value" are highly-paid (but not all). But that is because there is greater demand (or less supply) for people to fill those jobs.

      In short, do not confuse correlation (high value jobs have high pay) with causation (we do NOT give high pay to people with high value jobs because we value the jobs).

      We pay people what we need to pay in order to find someone to do the job. That is the "value" of the job - as an economic valuation. Do not confuse that with the moral worth of the job. Or its intrinsic value to the employer.

      --
      Recycle PCs and build a wireless community network www.hillsborough.org.nz
    6. Re: Ha! by goosesensor · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'm with you on #2. I'm tired of seeing whiny middle-age women complaining about not being able to live in one of the best cities in the world because "Google".

    7. Re:Ha! by geoskd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If i just spent 100 grand on a 4 year degree and gave 2 years to this company i wouldnt be as happy about it

      Why? Nobody except the CEO took a pay cut. In fact everyone got at least a small raise. These guys are actively unhappy because *someone else* got a fair shake for a change? Thats just retarded, mean and more than a little childish. I could see if they had been given a paycut, but they were in no way affected except that someone they work with got a windfall. If you weren't getting a fair wage, then why were you still working there? If you were getting a fair wage then GROW UP.

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    8. Re:Ha! by khallow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      how cute. someone who still thinks that capitalism WORKS.

      It's rather obvious that capitalism works.

      hint: we're melting down in the US, the middle class is being attacked and destroyed, the upper classes accumulate more and more of the world's wealth and most of us will NEVER be able to retire.

      I find it bizarre how people can intentionally break a capitalist system and then complain that capitalism isn't working for them. Don't break it, if you don't like the consequences.

      Here, the problem is that the US has been aggressive interfering with business creation and employment while expending huge amounts of public resources on the largest businesses. Meanwhile, you and a lot of other people continue to ignore the elephant in the room - foreign labor competition that is a fraction of the US's labor cost. There needs to be something differentiating US labor as being more valuable than say, Chinese labor, or else businesses and economic power will shift elsewhere while US labor continues to decline in wages.

      Further, the same can't be said of the rest of the world which has been doing just fine with massive middle class creation and collecting more and more of the world's wealth in the hands of the majority of its citizens.

      so, telll me again how greed makes things all sunshine and rainbows?

      So tell me again, what works better? Or even works at all?

    9. Re:Ha! by khallow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      These guys are actively unhappy because *someone else* got a fair shake for a change?

      Here's a protip: when only some people get the "fair shake", then it's not a fair shake.

    10. Re: Ha! by epyT-R · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Socialism doesn't work because people are NOT equal in ability or utility to an organization. Equalizing the payoff for everyone just disenfranchises those who end up doing the majority of the work. The real question is how much more of society are we going to ruin in vain attempts to disprove that. Sure he can run his own company any way he likes (assuming no shareholders), but it sounds like his attempt at social 'justice' isn't going any better than others have. It just builds resentment and infighting.

      Too much price fixing ends up damaging other companies providing prereq goods and services. Then the state has to step in to 'save' them as well. Eventually the whole 'market' is centralized and dictated by politics and feelings of a ruling class rather than the realities of cost and consumer demand. Then it rots away eg: the Soviet Union.

    11. Re:Ha! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If i just spent 100 grand on a 4 year degree and gave 2 years to this company i wouldnt be as happy about it

      Why? Nobody except the CEO took a pay cut. In fact everyone got at least a small raise. These guys are actively unhappy because *someone else* got a fair shake for a change? Thats just retarded, mean and more than a little childish.

      What it is, is telling the more experienced and productive people that there s no need for them to be any more productive than the newest or lest productive people.

      You don't at all understand the drivers of productive people. Usually self driven, they are also perceptive. A situation where the biggest fuckoff who takes a dozen ciggy breaks a day, and takes off every sick day he earns and comes in late every day and leaves early, and for all that, is making the same as the guy who get's his work donnie, done well, and a high percentage of the time, picks up the slack for the slacker - well, we don't like that very much. We're driven, so we'll take up that slack. But if we're not compensated for our production, we'll likely go some other place.

      Myself and one coworker made a lot more than every other person in the department. There was a reason for that. The suits thought we were worth it. They wanted to keep us.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    12. Re: Ha! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Capitalism" isn't a system. It is freedom. A free market is a side-effect of a free people. Under a free society there may always be "better" ways of doing things, but that doesn't make them moral or even necessary.

  2. Details by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    LOL.

    What about the company's revenue? Employees can easily be replaced, but revenue is key.

    This guy sounds like a SJW which is a terrible CEO choice. You can't run a company on your feelings, and hope to remain successful.

  3. Life imitating art? by K.+S.+Van+Horn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This sounds like something out of an Ayn Rand novel. It's very similar to something that happens in Atlas Shrugged.

    1. Re:Life imitating art? by alvinrod · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're probably better off reading the Cliffs notes as it's rather dry. It could have made its point in far fewer pages and even for someone with political leanings towards those of the author, the portrayal of the antagonists (socialism) is so absurd that the book almost becomes a black comedy to me, although some would claim that is the style of the book and such is intentional.

      Either way, eventually you will make your way to the John Galt radio speech, which is where the book casts all pretenses of being a novel and spills its philosophical guts on the table, just in case you were functionally brain dead and couldn't deduce the message from the previous several hundred pages.

      Just save yourself the trouble and read a summary. The book doesn't work as either a work of fiction or as an ideological treatise. Even if you're the type of person to agree with every word of the book, it's still not worth your time.

    2. Re:Life imitating art? by dbIII · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Needless to say, it did not work out well.

      Of course it didn't, because it was a pre-determined strawman in a novel as a snarky complaint about Rand not being paid what she thought she deserved by Twentieth Century Fox in her entry level job.
      Rand was so fucked up that she was comparing Hollywood employment to Soviet Russia! Read a bit about Rand's life and you'll understand where she is coming from and that she knew almost nothing about the the west and did not wish to know much about the west. She hated Stalin, but if Stalin had wanted to plant the seeds of political discord in the USA with a political movement he couldn't have done better than Rand no matter who he paid to do it.

      Her fantasies are Twilight for people in a democracy that wish they could be Royalty instead, and they fuck up anyone that takes them at more than face value. The message that you could be special if it wasn't for all of those Serfs having a say in how the country is run is utterly fucked. You should have to earn the right to rule instead of being born to it like Digby.

  4. Just Like Walmart by onkelonkel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Same thing happened at walmart when they bumped their lowest paid workers up to the minimum wage.
     
    http://business.financialpost.com/news/retail-marketing/wal-marts-pay-raise-creates-thousands-of-unhappy-workers-its-pitting-people-against-each-other
     
    Senior workers got no raise and feel disrespected.

    --
    None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  5. Re:Those making more than new minimum salary by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've seen minimum wage go up by 40% since I entered the work force, but my own salary has only gone up by 25% in that same period.

    You know that the minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation in over two decades, right? So if your wages are doing even more poorly than the minimum wage, you're getting fucked and hard. But you're complaining about the people who are getting fucked way harder than you, because them getting fucked slightly less hard means you get fucked slightly harder. What about the people doing the fucking? Maybe you should stop attacking your natural allies.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  6. wtf by rogoshen1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    whenever CEO pay comes up on this site, people bitch about how much more the CEO makes vs rank and file. Okay, valid complaint.

    Here a CEO bucks that trend, nukes his own salary and gives everyone a *minimum* 70k salary -- which is different from everyone getting 70k. He not only does a commendable thing: paying employees more than necessary; but walks the walk and takes a massive paycut himself.

    The real story here is the crab-pot mentality. If I'm making 100k, and my cubicle neighbor goes from 35k to 70k, that doesn't have any impact on me whatsoever*. Why complain?

    *small scale, intra-company comparison here, yes I know if the minimum wage was suddenly 70k, that's a different beast.

  7. Re:Those making more than new minimum salary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But you don't understand! it's absolutely unfair that Timmy had 3 marbles and got 3 more, and he had 10 marbles and only got 2 more! ITS NOT FAIR!!1! He demands at least 4 marbles or he's going to flip his shit and go full on ballistic temper tantrum followed by pouting for the rest of the afternoon!

  8. Re:Those making more than new minimum salary by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    With the only problem that things ain't the way they were. What was supposedly a temporary job to make ends meet while you study for your "real" job more and more becomes the real job for many people.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  9. Re:What an Idiot by kuzb · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Yeah, how dare he try to put his employees first - even ahead of himself. What an asshole!

    --
    BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
  10. Re:That NYT article in full by laird · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't leave out that the business is booming, doing much more business than before, and getting tons of applications from high quality candidates attracted by the higher wages.

    So yes, the transition might be bumpy. But nobody's salary went down, so they're all making at least what they agreed to for their job. It seems weird to me that people are angry that while they got a raise, but so did lower paid workers, so they aren't making as much more than the other guy as they used to.

    A good writeup is at http://www.forbes.com/sites/mi... .

  11. Re:That NYT article in full by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And in the meantime those two selfish assholes who quit solely because they couldn't stand to see other people not treated worse than them have made themselves radioactive. Why would I ever want to hire people who might throw a huge public tantrum and quit because I don't treat other people badly enough to soothe their ego?

    --
    A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
  12. Another Utopian Socialist by p51d007 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Gee, who didn't see THAT coming! Socialism does not breed happiness. Paying EVERYONE the same breeds resentment. Those that worked HARD, and worked their way up the ladder, are now ticked off, because all of their hard work was for nothing, because now the new hire, off the street that knows NOTHING, gets paid the same. Those that goof off, don't work hard, get paid the same as the person that will bust their butt. Customers, some of which already left, are worried that paying everyone the same, will result in the fees going up. Great job! You backhandedly once again showed that socialism DOES NOT WORK, never will work!

  13. Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Those who can contribute significant, above-and-beyond value naturally feel that people should be rewarded in proportion to their contributions.

    Those who cannot contribute significant, above-and-beyond value naturally feel that everyone should receive equal rewards, regardless of their contributions.

    By setting policies that pander to the second group, you wind up losing members of the first group, resulting in a company full of under-performing slackers. No surprise such a company doesn't do well.