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Windows 10's Privacy Policy: the New Normal?
An anonymous reader writes: The launch of Windows 10 brought a lot of users kicking and screaming to the "connected desktop." Its benefits come with tradeoffs: "the online service providers can track which devices are making which requests, which devices are near which Wi-Fi networks, and feasibly might be able to track how devices move around. The service providers will all claim that the data is anonymized, and that no persistent tracking is performed... but it almost certainly could be." There are non-trivial privacy concerns, particularly for default settings.
According to Peter Bright, for better or worse this is the new normal for mainstream operating systems. We're going to have to either get used to it, or get used to fighting with settings to turn it all off. "The days of mainstream operating systems that don't integrate cloud services, that don't exploit machine learning and big data, that don't let developers know which features are used and what problems occur, are behind us, and they're not coming back. This may cost us some amount of privacy, but we'll tend to get something in return: software that can do more things and that works better."
According to Peter Bright, for better or worse this is the new normal for mainstream operating systems. We're going to have to either get used to it, or get used to fighting with settings to turn it all off. "The days of mainstream operating systems that don't integrate cloud services, that don't exploit machine learning and big data, that don't let developers know which features are used and what problems occur, are behind us, and they're not coming back. This may cost us some amount of privacy, but we'll tend to get something in return: software that can do more things and that works better."
"...software that can do more things and that works better..."
That's the funniest goddam thing I've read this week.
They already know that.
Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
Cortana cannot be disabled without breaking Windows. Yes, you can turn all of the settings off, but the process still runs in the background and auto restarts when killed. I even went into the windows group policy settings and forbade Cortana, and it still ran as a process in the background. So, I tried to use powershell to remove it since it was installed as a "modern app". I removed every trace of modern app, including the Windows store, rebooted, Cortana was still there, running the background, consuming 0%-0.1% cpu and using ~35MB of RAM. So, I found out where Cortana was on the file system, killed the process, and renamed the folder, so that it would not be found. And that did work, Cortana never restarted. The only problem was Windows Update stopped working! Yes, not being able to start Cortana prevents Windows 10 from installing updates. I had to run sfc (which fixed Cortana) to install updates, and now the Cortana process is back. Also, when I renamed the Cortana install folder, the search feature of the start menu stopped working completely (no type to search). Magically started working once Cortana was back. I can't believe how deep this thing has its tentacles into the OS, it really is disturbing.
More people will just move to Linux.
I wish. I've tried to switch to Linux on many occasions (at least 6 that come to mind). Every single time something breaks in a manner that requires a complete re-install of the entire thing, spending hours searching forums for possible causes/solutions, etc. The last attempt was thwarted by Microsoft and UEFI. One thing Microsoft does well is it makes sure that once something important breaks it has tools to recover, at least partially, so the user can continue. With Linux it's luck into a terminal fix or re-install and start over from scratch.
Then you're doing it wrong. With linux, all you have to do is stick the install cd into the drive and reboot, you'll get a brand new system. The beauty of Linux is that the system is designed to cleanly separate your files from the system files, and the system partitions can be completely overwritten with a brand new system to make it work again.
If You're Not Paying, You're The Product.
Except they will charge for it later, and you will still be the product buying another product.
If i can use all my Windows programs without having to use some convoluted whatever so i can run them sure i will switch. Nothing Linux makes comes close to what is available to windows users. I want my OS to do the work, i don't have the time nor want too nor should I. That,s what a stinking computer is saposta do right? Take all the hard stuff and make it easy. You want to fiddle with your OS? more power to you. But me and a few billion others just don't want too. That,s why Linix is not popular, that's why Linux lost the Desktop OS wars. Ya telling user don't like it??change it yourself looser is going to make a ton of converts right? I hate windows 8 and 10 but i will never switch to an OS that cant even run my programs kinda ok. Gold?silver?Bronze? lol
Jack of all trades,master of none
It's funny how /. folks still don't get it. Consumers/users don't know anything about their PCs or devices, and they don't care.
It's up to us tech folks to save the day....oh, shit, that's right, everyone here works for a company that profits from collecting data from end users.
Never mind, we're all fucked.
Almost that. I'm a bit tired to hear my fellow /.ers collegues refraining the same thing over and over like it matters to anyone out there. It doesn't, be acquaint to it. The lambda user just don't care about the OS, the privacy and all this stuff. Even a lot of people working in IT don't care. I even have seen bankers who don't care. This is really astonishing given how Edward Snowden is glorified by people which on another hand just don't care about a company doing much more than what NSA did few years ago. People are happy idiots.
Achille Talon
Hop!
Blocking these domains will make your version of Windows 10 "Unconnected". To Microsoft at least.
dns.msftncsi.com
ipv6.msftncsi.com
win10.ipv6.microsoft.com
ipv6.msftncsi.com.edgesuite.net
a978.i6g1.akamai.net
win10.ipv6.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
en-us.appex-rf.msn.com
v10.vortex-win.data.microsoft.com
client.wns.windows.com
wildcard.appex-rf.msn.com.edgesuite.net
v10.vortex-win.data.metron.life.com.nsatc.net
wns.notify.windows.com.akadns.net
americas2.notify.windows.com.akadns.net
travel.tile.appex.bing.com
www.bing.com
any.edge.bing.com
fe3.delivery.mp.microsoft.com
fe3.delivery.dsp.mp.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
ssw.live.com
ssw.live.com.nsatc.net
login.live.com
login.live.com.nsatc.net
directory.services.live.com
directory.services.live.com.akadns.net
bl3302.storage.live.com
skyapi.live.net
bl3302geo.storage.dkyprod.akadns.net
skyapi.skyprod.akadns.net
skydrive.wns.windows.com
register.mesh.com
BN1WNS2011508.wns.windows.com
settings-win.data.microsoft.com
settings.data.glbdns2.microsoft.com
OneSettings-bn2.metron.live.com.nsatc.net
watson.telemetry.microsoft.com
watson.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
http://init.sh/?p=236
"Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
I'd usually boot a livecd, mount my partitions, and chroot into my install to fix whatever was broken. Usually, it's something that I did recently, and that I know how to undo. I've had to do that about as many times as I've had to boot from a Windows disk to restore corrupted files, fix the mbr, or some other such nonsense. That's not counting trouble with updates that won't install and can't tell me why or that put the computer into an unbootable state.
In Linux, I can usually trace problems to something that I did. In Windows, I can usually trace problems to something that the OS did. Each system has it's own philosophy of repair. For Windows: Use the Microsoft-supplied tools, and hope that you can get things working well enough. For Linux: Hope that your knowledge or search engine skills are enough to fix the problem. I like the second approach, because it feels like it relies on my own cleverness than it does the engineers that wrote the software.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Then you're doing it wrong. With linux, all you have to do is stick the install cd into the drive and reboot, you'll get a brand new system. The beauty of Linux is that the system is designed to cleanly separate your files from the system files, and the system partitions can be completely overwritten with a brand new system to make it work again.
You're missing the point, I don't want to waste my time re-installing my OS/reconfigure my preferences every couple weeks. When I was a kid and computers were new that was fun but I've got way too much on my plate to bother with re-installs now days. If something breaks, I want the OS to recognize it, fix it, and let me get on with my day without trashing my preferences.
Except it's not about making the software better. It's about making more money by selling the information you get from this 'feedback'.
This is happening everywhere you have software running connected to the internet. Vehicles, IoT, mobile apps, desktop software, web apps.
It's the idea that you didn't pay them enough up front, that they deserve an ongoing revenue stream at long as that license is being used and there are no limits as to what they can do to get that money.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
For a start, block these in your router, or hosts file:
http://pastebin.com/ULJjVM7w
vortex.data.microsoft.com
vortex-win.data.microsoft.com
telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com
telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
oca.telemetry.microsoft.com
oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com
sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
watson.telemetry.microsoft.com
watson.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
redir.metaservices.microsoft.com
choice.microsoft.com
choice.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
df.telemetry.microsoft.com
reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
services.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
sqm.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
telemetry.microsoft.com
watson.ppe.telemetry.microsoft.com
telemetry.appex.bing.net
telemetry.urs.microsoft.com
telemetry.appex.bing.net:443
settings-sandbox.data.microsoft.com
vortex-sandbox.data.microsoft.com
survey.watson.microsoft.com
watson.live.com
watson.microsoft.com
statsfe2.ws.microsoft.com
corpext.msitadfs.glbdns2.microsoft.com
compatexchange.cloudapp.net
cs1.wpc.v0cdn.net
a-0001.a-msedge.net
statsfe2.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
sls.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
fe2.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
diagnostics.support.microsoft.com
corp.sts.microsoft.com
statsfe1.ws.microsoft.com
pre.footprintpredict.com
i1.services.social.microsoft.com
i1.services.social.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
feedback.windows.com
feedback.microsoft-hohm.com
feedback.search.microsoft.com
rad.msn.com
preview.msn.com
ad.doubleclick.net
ads.msn.com
ads1.msads.net
ads1.msn.com
a.ads1.msn.com
a.ads2.msn.com
adnexus.net
adnxs.com
az361816.vo.msecnd.net
az512334.vo.msecnd.net
More people will just move to Linux.
That's what they said in 2001 when Windows XP came out. 14 years later, it still hasn't happened.
I want my OS to do the work
That's why I run Linux. For years and years it's enabled me to be productive.
I've heard the "LibreOffice is lacking x,y,z" and "I can't live without feature x,y,z in Photoshop" many, many times now. If you truly can't live without x,y,z then go ahead and use Windows. Even if it's a simple matter of you like Windows better, go ahead and use it. I don't care. But don't tell me Linux is inferior because it doesn't have some obscure feature not used by 99% of users.
I know Linux on the desktop will forever remain a small percentage of market share. It's simply never going to catch up with the big boys. I'm okay with that, too. The reason, though, is not inferiority. It's entrenchment and market muscle.
If Microsoft started pushing Linux as Windows 12, even if they made zero changes to it, it would take off quickly.
This is not about quality and merit. Not at all.
Windows software does not run on it
Legacy non-cloud applications do not run on it.
New web-based applications run on Linux just fine.
Every legacy application is slowly getting replaced with an "App" anyways, as Tablets more and more replace PCs for end users.
It's funny how /. folks still don't get it. Consumers/users don't know anything about their PCs or devices, and they don't care.
They care when it starts displaying a slideshow of their pr0n stash in the Start Menu.
The real problem is that operating systems pretty much reached the 'all done' point ten years ago, when they did everything that anyone could reasonably want them to do. Everything since has just been trying to find new things they could add to justify pushing a new version. Writing 'The Cloud' services is much more exciting for hipsters than fixing bugs.
I don't give a fuck if you have to hack the shit out of the Registry to do it, either.
That's a constant battle too. Automatic updates will be mandatory for Windows 10 users, except in Enterprise environments with Windows Enterprise edition and WSUS, etc. You used to be able to disable Google Chrome browser auto-updating with a registry tweak, then Google came back and started changing Chrome so Group Policy settings in the registry will not be honored unless your computer is actually joined to a domain, and even then the policy must be configured through a GPO that the group policy clients knows about, otherwise it will be ignored..
Same with other settings such as app-autoinstalls. Also, If you want to re-enable Java, it seems as if they intentionally made it difficult to automate such things.
"People are happy idiots."
Actually, people are unhappy "idiots". When abusers succeed, that causes others to choose to be abusive. When there are a huge number of people doing many kinds of abuses, people begin feeling that they can't protect themselves, and try to ignore the abuses.
The U.S. government in general, U.S. banks, and the many secret agencies of the U.S. government engage in many kinds of abuses. For example, a side-effect of NSA activities also has the initials NSA: No Sales for America. Companies don't want to buy complicated products from the U.S. because agencies of the U.S. government can go to any U.S. corporation and tell executives that they must accept the insertion of spy products, and keep that secret, or go to prison. Since any complicated U.S. product could have methods of control or spying or worse, it is better for foreign customers to avoid buying anything touched by U.S. companies.
One effect of "upgrading" to Windows 10: Windows Media Center will be deleted.
Another loss in Windows 10: Windows Updates will be forced, in at least one version. Will there be other lost features, now or later? Will Microsoft extend its control over Windows in other hidden or complicated ways? The issue is not whether technically-knowledgeable users will be able to stop forced updates; the issue is that most people won't know how to regain control over their systems. That control is important because often Microsoft has given poorly designed updates that have caused problems on user's systems. See this Slashdot story, for example, Windows 10's Automatic Updates For NVidia Drivers Causing Trouble.
More about Microsoft releasing buggy software: The Slashdot story, Windows 10 Launches, says Windows 10 is "buggier than Windows 8.1, 8, 7, or Vista were on their respective launch days" and "During my testing on a variety of hardware, I've run into a lot of bugs and issues -- even with the version that will be released to consumers on launch day".
(At present, the best way to update Windows 7 is to use Autopatcher, because Microsoft's anti-customer "updates" are avoided.)
Online comments say that Microsoft will try to move Windows to a model that requires monthly payments.
Firefox: Embraced, "Extended", soon to be Extinguished? Mozilla Foundation now gets most of its money from Microsoft. Microsoft pays Yahoo. Yahoo pays Mozilla Foundation to make "Yahoo search" (actually Microsoft Bing search) the default search engine in Firefox. Most people don't have the technical knowledge to know how they've been manipulated, or how to restore the default search engine to Google search.
Thunderbird and SeaMonkey Composer GUIs: Damaged, apparently deliberately. Every time you do a file save, the newer versions of both ask for a new file name, and don't suggest the last one chosen. The damage was reported several months ago, but has not been fixed. Is that another example of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish? People who feel forced away from Thunderbird may choose Microsoft software to replace it. Is that what Microsoft is trying to accomplish?
One effect of abuse is that the abusers become VERY unhappy. For years, people called Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer "Monkey Boy". That reflected the results of Ballmer's constant involvement in Microsoft's abuse of its customers.
Microsoft is amazingly badly managed. The
Stick with 7
Not your home PC that came with Windows already on it. Cyberspace. The servers, search engines, websites, name it.
I am a Linux server admin by trade :). And yes, Linux is great for servers. With one exception - I have not seen a proper alternative to MS Exchange server. Exchange is great for when users have tons of rules and many gigabytes of emails. Also, the way Exchange handles sharing mailboxes between users is better than the standard IMAP setup.
If more games were compiled already to run on Linux, Microsoft would already be archive.org.
Yes, is most new games ran on Linux, Microsoft would have harder time selling Windows.
However, as it currently is, most new PCs come with Windows, so for a user, Windows is kinda-free - I mean he already paid for it and probably did not have the option of buying the same exact PC without Windows for $100 less. Also, stuff like compiling the kernel is way above the head of an average user, even installing drivers on Windows is above his head.
What you don't to is to say oh, since Microsoft had us in a proprietary headlock for decades that now we just have to buy proprietary headlock edition PC's.
A lot of times the choice is limited. I wanted a small UMPC that could fit in my pocket and yet have a relatively normal keyboard and x86 CPU (essentially a Psion Series 5 with modern hardware). There were two options at the time - Viliv N5 and Umid BZ. They both most likely have some hardware that is difficult to make work in Linux. Similar is buying a bigger laptop.
If this is ever a case for anybody, simply install it into a Virtual Machine.
Wouldn't installing Linux inside a VM inside Windows defeat the point of not having Windows? Also, good luck playing games or even HD video from inside the VM.
Windows has no sell points other than forced updates, get spied on, share your WiFi password with outlook contacts, then decide who hacked your shit.
Now, yes. However, old versions were good - XP and now 7, this is why people still use the old versions. XP because the hardware they have may not be fast enough for anything newer and 7 because the later versions are crap. After Windows 7 MS found out that it essentially was "good enough", could not find anything to improve and started to muck around with the interface and later spying.
Until it really is "insert CD and go" for ALL computers (is an HP laptop so weird??) then Linux will never be mainstream. Sorry.
A lot of laptops aren't "insert CD and go" for Windows. If you don't have the official disc which re-images your system, you can't even install them without slipstreaming drivers into the Windows CD. Sorry.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
I've migrated myself back in 98. I've migrated other people. It's been getting easier to migrate people since Ubuntu Dapper which came out 9 years ago.
I'm going to migrate my wife to it, probably this week. She's fed up with 7, hates 8.x and read about the privacy stuff for 10. As a social activist, she wants no part of the "give everything to the cloud" stupidity.
Speaking of which, after analyzing what passes for a privacy policy for 10, it is completely HIPAA non-compliant. It basically says "we don't guarantee that your data won't leak from our servers, so enjoy your $50K fines and lawsuits." HIPAA covers not only hospitals and doctors, but other health care workers as well, including private contractors that do hospice and elderly care at the huge wage of $15-$17/hr, who simply /cannot afford/ to hire someone to harden their Windows laptops. 10 is a fucking nightmare for HIPAA - unsafe at any speed. Windows is the Corvair of OSes.
--
BMO
That's not true. Some of us here work for a company that is losing money collecting data from end users.
Stick with Win 7 until the pirate version comes out. Its the same thing we saw with games overflowing with DRM, the pirates end up releasing a better version with all that shit stripped out.
Just as we had "WinXP Micro" and "Win 7 Tiny" there will be a "Gamer Edition" or "Tiny edition" released by the hackers that will have all that shit ripped out so its just an OS that can play games. You of course won't be able to use the updates because they require all that phone home bullshit, but a good AV and a sandboxed browser fixes that problem pretty well.
But the only way we can get rid of Win 10 is if we all shit all over it just as we did with windows 8 and 8.1. If all the regular users hear is how much of a POS it is? They will stay away. If we tell them they are broadcasting their porn habits to a company that is gonna share it with anybody that offers them a buck? they will treat the "free" upgrade like plague blankets. We already have a HUGE head start as all I've been hearing is how "slow and jerky" Windows 10 is thanks to MSFT's bineheaded P2Ping Windows Updates, so if we all spread the word, get the bloggers writing about it (which we are seeing already) that Windows 10 is no different than the spyware that comes with some "free" program? Then we CAN change the narrative.
But until we get Win 10 thrown in the same shit bucket as 8 and 8.1 just avoid it and wait for a pirate version if there is some DX12 game you want to play.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Or have it turned off for you.
Seriously. The fact that this *can* be turned off in the enterprise version shows that there is nothing in Windows' archictecture that requires it.
As long as each and every MS Windows installation makes one administrator when one installs it, one can turn all those things off (or de-install them).
When I say "one", I don't mean the "average user" of course. It would take 'em (myself included) months of intense study to figure out how to do that (and they won't have the time, the interest, the aptitude, or the stamina for that). The good news is that they probably won't have to.
For computer-literate people there will probably be utilities / batch files to take care of Microsoft's pre-installed "tattleware" for you.
For complete end-users I also foresee a market for something like an "add-on control panel" that shows every (known) piece of "tattleware" on MS Windows and allows you to switch it off (or even de-install it). A seperate piece of software that works as a Windows "service" can ensure that this user "policy" is enforced every time Windows boots plus, say, at 2-hr intervals.
There is a serious problem. What is one of your contacts has a seriously malicious intent? They can park a car with tinted windows across street, and then access your LAN, which is a huge privacy AND security issue. At once, this feature of Windows 10 not only compromised privacy, but also the security of your entire home LAN. There will be a million interesting ways to exploit it. In fact, you don't even need to be a friend with the target. You simply need to be friend of his friend, and all will be good as long as the friend of the target has once visited targets home and cached his wifi network password. The possibilities are limitless. Would you like to snoop around on your boss or do you want to stalk your ex? Want to snoop around on their LAN? Find unsecured PC, SMB shares, or media servers? Well now you can, thanks to Microsoft.
I think MS will be eventually sued for that.