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The LibreOffice Story

An anonymous reader writes: Jono Bacon in his latest column writes about the story of LibreOffice and how it rose out of the ashes of StarOffice and OpenOffice.org. Bacon also touches on why he feels LibreOffice is such a key piece of Open Source for communities across the world. Jono says: "To look at LibreOffice today and compare it to Microsoft Office can be tempting. Sure, LibreOffice does not provide the same level of features and finesse Microsoft's suite may boast, but when I think of the before and after vanity shots of the suite back in 1999 and today, what the community has accomplished is phenomenal. Developing LibreOffice has been hard, technically challenging, and at times demotivating work, and contributors' efforts can be seen by millions of users across the world."

14 of 254 comments (clear)

  1. SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by lesincompetent · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The FOSS movement should go all-in with LibreOffice in an effort to provide a perfect alternative to MS office.
    Reliance on MS office is the only thing that holds back many of my folks (familiy, friends) from a total FOSS conversion of their computing habits.
    Yes i said "perfect". It is feasible and there are no excuses.

    1. Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What you're missing is the fact that most normal users still get files from other people, and these still don't always render correctly. For example, my kids' teachers will send out documents in Word or Powerpoint; often the clipart they love so dearly is oddly reformatted and covers text. And when the teacher assigns a PowerPoint presentation to be created, and ends up grading on the prettiness of the template, and Libre Office has only bare-bones templates, it's a bummer. Little stuff like that can be a surprisingly big hurdle; I now have a laptop with Office loaded just for these types of cases.
      For document generation, Libre Office is awesome and does everything I need.

    2. Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by nine-times · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Creating a "perfect" alternative to MS Office is harder than just engineering an office suite. LibreOffice is great in many ways, but one of the things that keeps many people on MS Office is that they've built their workflows on Outlook. Those workflows don't only depend on Outlook, but through Outlook they depend on Exchange. So if you really want to displace Microsoft, you have to create a mail/groupware client to Outlook, either by creating one compatible with Exchange or creating groupware server to replace Exchange as well. Or you need to create an alternative to both of those things that won't screw up businesses' workflows. Or I guess you can convince businesses to overhaul their workflows.

      The issue of "workflow" is a huge issue that too many people ignore. Even if a different software solution provides all the same "functionality", if it requires people to change how they work, they aren't going to go for it. It's especially difficult if it changes the way people work by requiring frequent repetitive steps (e.g. if you can do all the same things, but if doing it in Microsoft Office requires 2 clicks and LibreOffice requires 5 clicks, then people are going to get frustrated).

    3. Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by FranTaylor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And when the teacher assigns a PowerPoint presentation to be created

      fuck me, the world really is coming to an end

    4. Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      The FOSS movement should go all-in with LibreOffice in an effort to provide a perfect alternative to MS office.

      NO.
      the FOSS community should go all-in with **apache foundation** and fully support the real openoffice, long since freed from the grubby claws of oracle and given to apache along with ibm's additional codebase. apache is a trusted pioneer of open source development, with libreoffice and document foundation looking like a shady fly-by-night operation by comparison run by people who have proven themselves to be unreliable and have 5 year old tantrums whenever they don't like something.

      libreoffice folding into apache's openoffice is long overdue, and very much needed.

    5. Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by jfengel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most of the people I encounter can barely use the basic functionality of Microsoft Office, which is something that LibreOffice has covered.

      There is one crucial feature that isn't covered perfectly: absolute compatibility with MS Office. For a large number of office workers, Office is a collaboration tool. A document saved by one user and emailed to another, then edited and returned, needs to be able to preserve all of the formatting. Users care a *lot* about formatting, and if it gets messed up, they lose confidence in the software.

      Office's formatting algorithms are abominable, and it's no surprise that LibreOffice can't mimic them perfectly. And users really, really need to apply a lot less formatting and focus instead on content.

      Still... for a lot of offices, that's going to be the one unbreakable rule. MS Office is the de facto standard, and anything else needs to comply with that, even if the standard is for something user's shouldn't really want and which is poorly implemented (perhaps specifically to make it impossible to switch).

      I'd love to see more offices switch to something like Google Docs or other systems with minimal formatting, so that they can stop tinkering with fonts and actually focus on the words. Sadly, users do love it.

    6. Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by techno-vampire · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is one crucial feature that isn't covered perfectly: absolute compatibility with MS Office.

      And it never will be. Ignoring the people who won't try LiberOffice because it can't duplicate MS Office's behavior in some obscure corner-case, there's the fact that compatibility with MS Office is a constantly-moving goal post. Every version does things differently and has its own, proprietary format so that no matter what happens, LibreOffice will always be trying to catch up with the latest and "greatest" version of MS Office. Of course, so will everybody using an older version of Office, but all the MicroSofties are going to pay attention to is how FOSS can't keep up with whatever MS is currently pushing.

      --
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    7. Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by RoccamOccam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It would be beyond nice if LibreOffice could eventually be ported to Qt.

      I assume that a large part of the codebase is still responsible for the platform-independent UI that stated with StarOffice. Removing that responsibility from the LibreOffice team might eventually payoff in improving the look-and-feel and freeing resources for feature enhancements.

    8. Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by steelfood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      By imperfectly mimicking the old Office GUI, the LibreOffice GUI (and UI in general) ended up falling into the uncanny valley. It sort of looks like MS Office, but because it differs in subtle ways both visually and behaviorially, it's off-putting.

      If there's any OSS product that needs a UI redesign, it'd be LibreOffice. It'd be great if Mozilla could ship all their Firefox UI resources over, since it seems Firefox has so many choices they can't seem to decide which one to go with.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    9. Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      And when the teacher assigns a PowerPoint presentation to be created

      fuck me, the world really is coming to an end

      Well this is the simple shit that FOSS still can't get right and then excuses that incompetence by being dismissive of it. And you wonder why you're not making progress: you don't understand your target user.

      FOSS is made for developers, by developers. That is why FOSS developer/admin tools are so good but it is also why everything else FOSS sucks so much, it's why so many in the FOSS community are still scratching their heads wondering why nobody uses Linux on the desktop, why the FOSS community can't make a decent smartphone, tablet, wearable, VR or AR product and are just a slow follower to proprietary vendors. Shit even LibreOffice is an attempt to copy proprietary MS Office and is built from the (originally proprietary) StarOffice codebase. Start listening to what the users tell you they want You're not better than them, you don't know what they want and no, you're not Henry Ford.

  2. Re:LibreOffice didn't rise from the ashes by FranTaylor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I fail to see why fragmentation is a good thing.

    really? usually fragmentation is the result of two parties with irreconcilable differences. would you prefer that they spend time fighting with each other or would you rather let them duke it out in implementation land and see who can make a better mousetrap?

    let's look at some fragmentation over the years and see how it worked out:

    - Steve Jobs took his developers away with him when he could not reconcile his design decisions with apple. He made his own version of the mac os, called it "next step". eventually apple saw the error in their ways, brought back jobs, and now OSX is next step.

    - remember egcs versus gcc? gcc was getting old and stale and stagnant, new developers wanted new features on an expedited timeline and gcc said no. so egcs was forked, new features were implmented and tested and folded back into gcc. all around a good time

    - remember node.js versus io.js? again the same deal as egcs versus gcc.

    you can argue duplicated effort but in fact these forks allow new ideas to happen where they otherwise would not. can you argue with this?

  3. Re:False comparison by 0123456 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's presumably why Microsoft added the evil Ribbon, so Word users would have no idea how to find the features they use in a processor with a saner interface.

    Then again, those users probably have no idea how to find the features they use in the Ribbon, either.

  4. Re:Microsoft Office needs a competitor by Kobun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    LibreOffice (and any other Office Suite) doesn't need to compete feature-for-feature with MS Office. It needs to compete on the value proposition to users versus Office.

    In other words, performing (well) a subset of what Office 20xx does, for free, is likely good enough for a great many users.

  5. Re:The poor UI limits LIbreOffice. by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My first recommendation: The icon for Italics should be a capital letter I, not, as it is now, a lower-case italic A. (An I with a top and bottom line.)

    I never thought about that before, but you're right. That's one of the things that's just not a good UI decision. Because first of all, just as a matter of convention, most WYSIWYG editors will use an italic "I" for "Italic", and a bold "B" for "Bold". The fact that it's a convention should probably be enough reason to continue doing it.

    But beyond that, there's a good not-completely-obvious reason why that's been a convention for so long. If you're thinking about it on a technical level, LibreOffice's approach makes a lot of sense: have the formatting button icons all show the same character, but formatted based on what the button does. All of the icons have a lower-case "a", but for the "Bold" button, the "a" is bold. Makes sense, right? The button is showing exactly what it does.

    But if you think about it like a UI designer, there's a good reason why you shouldn't do things this way. By using the same basic character, you end up with a bunch of buttons that look pretty much the same. Look at the LibreOffice toolbar, and you see a bunch of "a" buttons in a row. At a glance, it's not so obvious which one does what. The "Bold" icon looks kind of just like a normal "a" unless you consider it with reference to the other "a" icons around it, and then you will probably notice that it's bolder. However, the "Bold" icon is separated from the rest of the icons by the "Italic" icon, which doesn't actually look like an italicized version of the "a" from all the other icons. Instead, it looks like an "a" printed from a different font, perhaps a script font. As a result, both the "Bold" and "Italic" icons are a bit unclear.

    Maybe that was too convoluted to follow. However, I can honestly say that this bothered me even before I could quite put my finger on what was bothering me. As soon as I read your post, I looked at the toolbar and thought, my first instinct at a glance would be to think the "Bold" icon was to make the font "normal", and the "Italic" icon would make turn the font to "script".

    I know there are people here who will say, "So what?! Just learn to use it. It's not hard to figure out or remember which button does what." Still, a good UI will be readily understandable at a glance. By having the LibreOffice toolbar filled with similar-looking buttons, it makes it just a little bit harder to quickly pick the one you want without really paying attention.