Slashdot Mirror


"Chaotic Architecture" At NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory

New submitter CarlaRudder writes: NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) is ditching old, rigid, legacy tools and adopting a much more flexible approach that allows people within the company to pick and choose the technologies that help them do their jobs better. CIO Jim Rinaldi and IT Chief Technology Officer Tom Soderstrom are calling it "chaotic architecture," and they are using it to better prepare for change and to attract the next generation of IT talent to JPL.

69 comments

  1. Moar Struts! by wikthemighty · · Score: 3, Funny

    They probably just signed a contract with Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co.

    --
    "There are people who do not love their fellow human being, and I _hate_ people like that!" - Tom Lehrer
  2. Open Parametric CAD Standard by trout007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What the Mechanical Engineering world badly needs is an open Parameteric CAD Standard. Right now it's horrible. Each company uses it's own proprietary file that cannot be easily shared with other software. There are some portable formats but you basically give up all of the engineering data. A CAD file should be an engineering document not just a model of what the perfect part should be. It should contain all of the important parametric data and the tolerances, GTOL's, surface finishes, fabrication notes, etc. It is amazing that this still doesn't exist and the costs of dealing with it are astronomical.

    --
    I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    1. Re:Open Parametric CAD Standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the Mechanical Engineering world badly needs is an open Parameteric CAD Standard. Right now it's horrible. Each company uses it's own proprietary file that cannot be easily shared with other software. There are some portable formats but you basically give up all of the engineering data. A CAD file should be an engineering document not just a model of what the perfect part should be. It should contain all of the important parametric data and the tolerances, GTOL's, surface finishes, fabrication notes, etc. It is amazing that this still doesn't exist and the costs of dealing with it are astronomical.

      I suspect this would not appear initially as an industry backed initiative. It would perhaps be better to make such an open format independently, including the conversion tools so that a central ecosystem is built which would allow all formats to be migrated between applications.

      Now, this would not be easy, but the moment one member of the industry natively supports the above open format is the moment you have won.

      Given the costs involved for everyone, I think companies might actually throw money at the group trying to simplify it.

    2. Re:Open Parametric CAD Standard by trout007 · · Score: 2

      The Military has been working on it. The most recent rev to Mil-Std-31000A in 2013 is getting closer. But it's more one way, along the lines of a .pdf where each software writes to a common format that can be read universally.

      --
      I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    3. Re:Open Parametric CAD Standard by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      It's really hard. You could take a look at adapting Collada.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    4. Re:Open Parametric CAD Standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is amazing that this still doesn't exist ...

      It's a matter of interoperability: Banks and hospitals need to access a common set of documents and even share those documents. So the protocols for doing so have slowly evolved. One CAD supplier has no incentive to make his equipment compatible with other CAD equipment. It's the automobile industry all over again.

    5. Re:Open Parametric CAD Standard by Morris+von+Habsburg · · Score: 1

      On a related note. Is it really true that even today you can find American engineers not using metric units? That must a royal pain for things such as collaboration, documentation, supply chain management, reducing cost, competition etc.

    6. Re:Open Parametric CAD Standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ISO 10303, commonly referred to as STEP, is the standard neutral format for CAD data. The latest version, 10303-242 supports the kind of Model Based Definition (MBD) data you describe including tolerances and notes associated to 3D geometry and part features.

    7. Re:Open Parametric CAD Standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The construction industry deals with these issues traditionally: the standard work and final drawings for the field and permission process and the work documents describing all the other information relevant to building the project, witch are also part of the permission process. Tolerances are market to the mechanical drawings, by the way, often along other information with notes on the side. The problem is that even text has to be exploded -- thus destroying the metadata -- when transferring the cad files to different platforms to get anything on the screen.

  3. Sounds scary, but it makes sense. by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A few things I have learned from 20 years in IT:
    1) On every project, (individual) people have been the critical success factor, not process.
    2) While you will always need process, process is not a replacement for good people. Most common IT processes attempt to ensure that errors made by poor performers are caught, but they also ensure that your best people will not be operating at peak performance. This is sometimes called "predictable mediocrity"

    This Chaotic Architecture thing sounds like a step in the right direction... putting trust (with oversight) in people rather than an ivory tower dictating company-wide policies. The real trick is how to organize that oversight without ending up with the same dictatorship by corporate architects. This requires effective management at all levels; daring to delegate and trust rather than dictate... but I've noticed a bad shortage of such Leaders in the places I've worked the last few years.

    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    1. Re:Sounds scary, but it makes sense. by vux984 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree with everything you said. However, there is the other side of it too:

      'chaotic architecture' could just as easily be the state where users are given control and IT has to support whatever nonsense users want. We've all seen it. Company goes "BYOD" and "chaotic architecture" follows... every piece of crap random consumer grade device gets brought in... half of it doesn't run the business critical apps properly, centrally managed A/V isn't possible, virus infections run rampant and IT finds itself working on some twits $300 Sony Vaio with 1GB RAM and Vista Home Basic... torrent software consumes all bandwidth. Some nimrod installs an inkjet color printer that's only compatible with XP, then buys a Windows 8 laptop and wants IT to make it work...

      IT needs to facilitate users getting the tools they need, WITHOUT letting it get TOO chaotic. :)

    2. Re: Sounds scary, but it makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is completely ignoring maintainability though. All those architecture choices bring about standardization of solutions and technologies which ensures your workforce can cover each other when people fall of the payroll.

    3. Re:Sounds scary, but it makes sense. by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From 20 years in aerospace:
      You need a good process if you having things break is unacceptable.

    4. Re:Sounds scary, but it makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      breaking news ... MH370

    5. Re:Sounds scary, but it makes sense. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Do you actually mean a good process, or rather a good metaprocess?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    6. Re:Sounds scary, but it makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, since you ask. The FAA defines the metaprocess, you pick your process, and then they audit your compliance to your process. However, if your process isn't compliant with industry standards, their auditing is going to take so damn long that you're going to run out of capital before they run out of lawyers.

      As for chaotic architecture, it's only implemented in 2 ways. IT says "fuck you, buy it with your own budget and we're not supporting it." or IT just got fired because BYOD comes with Chinese and more malicious hackers being invited in the front door.

    7. Re:Sounds scary, but it makes sense. by MobSwatter · · Score: 1

      From 20 years in aerospace:

      You need a good process if you having things break is unacceptable.

      Security of the CAD files and engineering the ability to take a lightning strike on the project would be a plus. From a grandkid of a generation that gave up on it 50 years ago.

    8. Re: Sounds scary, but it makes sense. by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It doesn't mean to just let everyone use whatever they want; you still need oversight, from your peers as well as your manager. And good individual choices can (and should) at some point be incorporated into company guidelines.

      I've worked with software that came from a "chaotic" environment. When it came to fixing bugs, there was a lot more moaning about "why the hell did he do that?!" compared to software developed against corporate standards, however the time and cost of fixing a bug were similar for both types of software. When it comes to adding enhancements, I found that the success factor was not having a company standard software architecture, but a good one. Software developed by a lone but clever developer entirely doing his own thing turned out to be easily enhanced due to outstanding software architecture. Software developed to company standards was equally maintainable if the standards were good enough, however in many cases one would find that the standards were applied poorly, or were themselves incomplete, leading to poorly structured and hard-to-maintain software. Again, in the end it comes down to people

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    9. Re:Sounds scary, but it makes sense. by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      That sounds a bit like the old "if architects designed houses like software engineers design programs..." trope. There is some truth to that, even if the fields of software design, architecture and aerospace engineering are vastly different. An important difference is that it is extremely unsafe to make assumptions in software engineering, yet we have no choice but to make them all the time. Our current world of software development is a minefield of bedrock turning to mud overnight, cable ducts that melt if they come in contact with a certain titanium alloy, doors that randomly explode if you put the doorknob on wrong, and turbine blades that come off if you happen to fly over the date line twice in one hour, to use a few crappy analogies. Some of this can be fixed, but until it is, it makes software development a complex affair, where perfection is attainably only at great cost; vastly more than consumers or producers are willing to pay.

      You do need a good process, but as I wrote before, it's not a substitute for good people. What I often see in IT is incredibly low standards. Sloppy work, sloppy decisions, sloppy designs, sloppy planning. And that has something to do with the quality of the people that we hire. Not just the developers, but the architects, testers and managers as well. Especially the managers. I can't imagine that airplane mechanics finding a leftover bolt after putting an engine back together will just shrug and say: "That was probably already here when we started" (I sure hope they don't...). In IT, such decisions are made on a daily basis just to meet the deadline for pushing out a product that sort of runs. And if you're going to change that culture, you need better people; just enforcing it through process is not going to cut it.

      Coming back to Chaotic Architecture: you need good people for that to work as well. If you just throw it out there without making some other changes, you're inviting disaster.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    10. Re:Sounds scary, but it makes sense. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Uh, that's not exactly what I meant. Given the common interpretation of what "process" means, what you're describing sounds like a meta-meta-process.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    11. Re:Sounds scary, but it makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The quality standard may be low, but all the higher ups care about is getting it out the door. Too many of them believe that Moore's Law is actually 'it'll be obsolete before anyone finds the bugs'.

      Remember the saying 'amateurs practice until they get it right, professionals practice until they can't get it wrong'? Well, currently we use amateurish standards, because it's quicker.

      And none of them acknowledge various C language programs that have been chugging along for decades.

    12. Re:Sounds scary, but it makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Costs will skyrocket. First will be the Fanboys. They will be split into the three camps and all of them will scream about how they are right. Windows fanboys will demand Win latest whatever and a full network server installation with an insane number of CALs and associated costs. Mac fanboys will want the most huge and insanely expensive computer they can find so they can be hip and run that one app they swear is better than any other out there while making tired old arguments about how much better the Mac is. Then the linux guys will want to monkey with their computers constantly by recompiling kernels and programs and trying out new GUIs in a never-ending search for the "ideal" computer. Next come the constant application and document incompatibilities which always seem to be "close" but never "the same". Then comes the need to keep everything updated and secure. After that comes demands to make it all work with their personal choice of cell phone and phablet and their latest operating systems and apps - oh, nevermind they already tied their rooted Android phone (done by their kid who "really knows this stuff") into the network so they can "work better" and it's all okay because "Android doesn't get viruses". Soon security issues start to get out of control and data magically appears in Bulgaria, China, and Wikileaks.

      Finally, somebody steps back, takes a look, and realizes that the organization is spending 300% more than before, they're not getting any more productivity (because everyone is still on Facebook and Twitter), their intellectual property is gone, and asks, "Why didn't we have some standards? This is freaking chaos!!!"

    13. Re:Sounds scary, but it makes sense. by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      'chaotic architecture' could just as easily be the state where users are given control and IT has to support whatever nonsense users want. We've all seen it. Company goes "BYOD" and "chaotic architecture" follows... every piece of crap random consumer grade device gets brought in... half of it doesn't run the business critical apps properly, centrally managed A/V isn't possible, virus infections run rampant and IT finds itself working on some twits $300 Sony Vaio with 1GB RAM and Vista Home Basic... torrent software consumes all bandwidth. Some nimrod installs an inkjet color printer that's only compatible with XP, then buys a Windows 8 laptop and wants IT to make it work...

      IT needs to facilitate users getting the tools they need, WITHOUT letting it get TOO chaotic. :)

      Easy, you let users dictate what they need. Perhaps they need a Linux box. Or a Windows box. Or a Mac. Instead of IT dictating what users use and users adapting to whatever (oh, the visualization program is only on Linux and I have Windows? Well, let's expense a new PC out of IT's purview...), users dictate their needs ("I need a Linux PC for this software").

      It doesn't have to be total chaos like BYOD - it just means IT has to be a bit more responsive to user requirements - if a user needs a machine running RHEL or something, they can go through IT to acquire it without all sorts of "Sorry, but we only support Ubuntu" BS. This is critical because a LOT of commercial software depends on things being as close as possible to the supported configuration (e.g., EDA tools). If the vendor only says they test on RHEL, you install RHEL to give least issues (sure, you probably CAN get it working on Ubuntu, but do you really want to risk the possibility of things not working without vendor support?).

      At the same time, IT can lock down the machine as necessary (did I mention EDA tools? Sometimes you can't update the machine). All the stuff is obtained through IT and nothing funny appears on the network.

      So true, it can't be too chaotic, but IT can and has to change to suit user's needs. At the same time, IT can easily say "No, I will not let you connect your personal phone to the network. If you need an iOS or Android device, we can supply you with one".

  4. How do they defend against Ruby and NoSQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's one thing to allow IT and devs to choose their own tools, but how are they going to ensure that the chosen tools are actually any good? For example a few years back Ruby on Rails and NoSQL were all the rage. The hype was intense, and a lot of CIOs and managers bought into it without actually thinking it through. The problem is that Rails and NoSQL were pushed by many Rubyists who, well, didn't have a fucking clue as to what they were doing! If you thought Java software from the early 2000s was bad, the shit the Rubyists made was so much worse. A lot of the Rails and NoSQL projects from that era were total disasters, worse than anything we'd seen before. So how will JPL defend themselves from remarkably bad developers and the extraordinarily awful tools that these remarkably bad developers like to use?

    1. Re:How do they defend against Ruby and NoSQL? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Yes. One project I worked on around then included a large chunk written by a Ruby fan, who was sure it was the best possible tool for the job.

      It was only when their stuff was complete and took all the CPU and still ran like a slug that they finally admitted that they'd have to toss Ruby out and write it again in another language. For all I know, it might have been the best possible tool for the job on a desktop machine, but not a sub-200MHz ARM.

    2. Re: How do they defend against Ruby and NoSQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think java from 2000 was bad you must not have had this displeasure of seeing vb code from the same time period. Nothing like using a prototype language for production systems.

    3. Re:How do they defend against Ruby and NoSQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      JPL doesn't use a lot of Ruby and NoSQL.. most of what we develop for spacecraft is in plain old C and some C++. Science data processing is often FORTRAN, because there's an enormous legacy base of processing codes in FORTRAN.

      More python recently. Some LISP in days gone by. Some Java.. some enterprise apps (payroll, etc.) are Java against an Oracle back end.

    4. Re: How do they defend against Ruby and NoSQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ruby is worse than VB. I worked extensively with VB back in the 1990s, and while it wasn't pretty, at least the apps did tend to perform well enough. That's almost never the case with Ruby, and we're running these Ruby apps on hardware that's hundreds or even thousands of times more powerful than what the VB apps ran on in the 1990s.

  5. The real architecture is chaotic too by mbone · · Score: 2

    Anyone who has ever worked or spent much time at JPL knows that the real architecture is chaotic too - a maze of buildings built over decades, and (like MIT) described only by arbitrary numbers.

  6. terrifying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the thought that someone might be using grunt at NASA

  7. By "chaotic" they mean "modern" by pseudorand · · Score: 0

    Seriously? Because that's how the rest of us have been doing it for at least decade or so now. How does some dinosaur CIO thinking that our new-fanged "interpreted languages" and "distributed version control" are less organized than his precious mainframe programmed in assembly with a bit of C here and there make news? Oh ya, I forgot, this is slashdot.

    Disclaimer: No, of course I didn't RTFA.

    1. Re:By "chaotic" they mean "modern" by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

      Eh, you're in danger of being tarred with the dinosaur brush yourself unless you recognize that mainframes at JPL died 30 years ago and the systema being replaced are probably Oracle Applications and Microsoft Exchange.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    2. Re:By "chaotic" they mean "modern" by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      And I didn't mean to denigrate your main point, however your point would be stronger if stated accurately without hyperbole.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    3. Re:By "chaotic" they mean "modern" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the systema being replaced are probably Oracle Applications and Microsoft Exchange

      If only...

      Just checking... Nope, still Exchange, still f'd up IMAP for Macs. Sigh.

    4. Re:By "chaotic" they mean "modern" by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Maybe remind somebody of the new policy :)

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  8. If they want to attract talent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe they should stop demanding the medical records of all their employees for the witch hunt de jour.

  9. The IT Crowd Strike Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From TFA, 'Years ago we tried "enterprise architecture" here at JPL, and no one was really resonating with that.'

    Sounds like they had the typical thing happen: an IT architect pretended to be an enterprise architect and screwed everything up. Something like 2/3 of EA practices fail for that reason. Some IT architect oversees a project for a big server application that talks to a few other systems then starts trying to claim the title Enterprise Architect. But it's like somebody claiming to be building architect because they put in the plumbing and air con.

    I really wish IT people would stop trying to steal the job title of Enterprise Architect. All it leads to is people thinking that EA is shit because a bunch of fucktards from IT haven't a clue what EA involves. They've screwed things up badly for real EAs.

    Frankly, if IT people want to steal job titles, they can fuck off, build a web server and start claiming to be from Marketing.

    1. Re:The IT Crowd Strike Again by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      For that matter, sysops should not call themselves engineers unless they actually are.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    2. Re:The IT Crowd Strike Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some department has a job to do. So they buy a machine and some software to get it done. All is well until the IT people are directed to support them and they come unglued because here is yet another oddball system for which they have no resources or expertise to support. To a point, I can sympathize with them. It's not always their decision to tell non conforming customers to take a hike and fix their own shit.

      But EA is just some Soviet Central Planning Committee's wet dream of managing everything from the top down in a corporate setting. There is something to be said for peer to peer planning between departments to establish formats, processes and tools. It's how our economy works and it beat central planning hands down.

    3. Re:The IT Crowd Strike Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some department has a job to do. So they buy a machine and some software to get it done. All is well until the IT people are directed to support them and they come unglued because here is yet another oddball system for which they have no resources or expertise to support.

      There is something to be said for peer to peer planning between departments to establish formats, processes and tools. It's how our economy works and it beat central planning hands down.

      Those two cancel each other out. And you're missing the central point that EA is about taking advantage of IT not being part of it. It is about central planning but only in the same sense that program/project management is about central planning. Where a project manager co-ordinates who and when, an EA co-ordinates EA the what, why and where.

      In your example, a department and IT are working at odds; one of the key points of EA is making sure that doesn't happen. If (and it's a big if) the project involves IT, you can still have some department buying the oddball system they need but it will be an oddball system that IT can support, gets training to support or there's a contract for external support.

      EA is about helping the business achieve its strategic objectives. A good EA is just as likely to be involved in the planning for a new fleet of delivery vans as an IT project.

    4. Re:The IT Crowd Strike Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A good EA is just as likely to be involved in the planning for a new fleet of delivery vans as an IT project.

      Nope. Just nope.

      This is the EA saying, "Everything has to go across my desk for approval." The CEO shouldn't even get involved to this degree. It's the job of fleet management and it's up to them to seek support when they need it. From facilities, logistics, compliance, etc. And maybe IT, if they need to put a terminal in it. But this is just the fleet management knowing its job. If they don't, they need to be shown the door, not reporting to one more drone.

    5. Re:The IT Crowd Strike Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're categorically ruling out a new fleet of delivery vehicles having any impact on the rest of the business. And categorically proving you know fuck all about EA.

  10. JPL Isn't a Company by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 1

    > that allows people within the company

    JPL is a NASA center managed by CalTech. Neither is a company.

  11. Article Summary by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    Quick summary: we stay the fuck out of the way of the engineers so they can install and use the tools they prefer in the way they want.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  12. Kerbal Space Program by PPH · · Score: 1

    n/t

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  13. Remember the Mars Climate Orbiter loss? by PNutts · · Score: 1

    Chaotic Architecture, brought to you by NASA. The organization where one team uses metric and the other English units of measure.

    1. Re:Remember the Mars Climate Orbiter loss? by queBurro · · Score: 1

      ironic how that article itself gives measurements in both km and miles

      --
      sag
  14. Re:The real architecture is chaotic too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's because the Republicans that rule us are so stupid.

    Funny you should say that since all the JPL buildings were designed by Hillary as a last-ditch fortress for her and Bill to hold of the feds in the case that anyone actually figured out what they have done.

  15. They're ditching telemetry data as well by Thing+1 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Apparently they are also ditching old, rigid, legacy telemetry data from the Apollo missions. They "lost" the tapes. All 14,000 of them!

    NASA is a bunch of liars. Slashdot's fortune is apt: "The trouble with a lot of self-made men is that they worship their creator."

    Certainly, not the creator of the firmament that the shuttle is (possibly) designed to penetrate.

    --
    I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    1. Re: They're ditching telemetry data as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah yeah, earth is flat, rides on turtles, and you make even less sense than the timecube guy. Go smoke another one and play with your firmament.

  16. Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jet Propulsion Laboratory is administered and property of the California Institute of Technology.

    NASA is a customer of CIT and JPL!

    Butt Fuckers

  17. Re:The real architecture is chaotic too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those arbitrary numbers were assigned in the order that Congress approved the construction of the buildings (allocated across all NASA centers, intermittently). So buildings with close numbers (e.g. 300,301, 303) were all built about the same time and show it . Higher numbers are always newer than older numbers. Bldg 103 is slightly newer than bldg 67 (that's one of the original bldgs at the lab, although it had a second floor added at some point).

    But, as you say, totally haphazard arrangement. Hey, it's on the side of a hill, so that drives things too. You have to fit new buildings in where there's a hole.

  18. Re:More balance is needed by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    The push to open source to lower costs really threw productivity down the cliff...

    That theory would seem to conflict with what the JPL guys said, but don't let me stop your frothing, Coward.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  19. Strange Attractors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fractal architectures are born simply by repeating the small set of principles at different scales. So a chaotic architecture must be a system in a plane of complex acquisition rules, pushed one bipartisan rule beyond repair and salvation.

  20. Oh please by Viol8 · · Score: 1

    "Enterprise Architect". Just another feel good title for some idiot who wouldn't feel so important if he was called Facilities Manager. And what the fuck exactly do those people know about computer system architecture? Answer: Nothing. Stay out of IT decisions and stick to signing the cheques.

    1. Re:Oh please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stay out of IT decisions? Definitely. IT is the Solution Architect's job. Signing cheques? That's the sponsors' job.

      You've obviously only dealt with fake ones. It takes years of training to become an EA and requires a vast skill set. Want to check if you've got a real EA at your place of work? Ask them for a summary of the current strategic objectives. If they start talking about IT stuff, they're probably a fake. If they start talking about a roadmap for moving into a new market segment or optimising capabilites, they're probably the real thing.

    2. Re:Oh please by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      Aaah, of course, the "Solution Architect". Silly me.

      Since we're playing buzzword bingo, presumably you'll be able to tell me if he leverages enterprise vision milestones in a collaborative centralised framework with a total quality cross sector commitment to excellence while delivering win-win best of breed paradigms?

    3. Re:Oh please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An EA works to design an enterprise. That's enterprise as in venture.
      A business architect works to design the operations of that venture, i.e. what gets done, who is responsible and how it is governed.
      A solution architect heads the work to design the IT that will support the operations.

      When the venture involves 1000+ employees doing something new, those designs are fucking complicated. When you're in a regulated industry, even more so.

      Your attitude is a perfect example of why senior management are happy to outsource IT. It never occurs to supposedly smart people like you that complicated stuff also happens outside of IT, does it? Or that your view of the business is limited.

    4. Re:Oh please by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      "Your attitude is a perfect example of why senior management are happy to outsource IT"

      And your obsession will stupid terminology for age old jobs is why no one takes people in management seriously. "Solutions architect". Stupid bloody name. As if no one else in the company comes up with solutions to problems in their particular area. Try "Operations manager". Or doesn't that come with such a highbrow sound? Whats your cleaner called, "Detritus removal architect"?

      "Or that your view of the business is limited."

      My view of IT at all levels is pretty damn clear thanks given I've run my own business in the past.

    5. Re:Oh please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know what? You're right. Secretly it's all a big con and IT people should be put in charge. Why don't you pop along to the next board meeting and explain it to them? You can show them this thread as proof that it's all just stupid terminology and that you know best.

    6. Re:Oh please by Viol8 · · Score: 2

      Put IT people in charge? Oh , you mean like at Google for example? Or Microsoft?

      Plenty of IT people become businessmen, but you never hear of an MBA graduate becoming a master programmer.

    7. Re:Oh please by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      Look up who started the 2 companies. It wasn't MBAs. They just get hired when some unimaginative grunt is needed to do the day to day running of the company.

      And why would IT people take the lead in non tech firms? Its well known that business types are afraid of IT because they don't understand it and so just promote their own, the CTO never stands a chance. Hence all the accountants in charge in the UK and marketing types in the USA.

      Oh btw, erlang is a programming language, not a filesystem. HTH.

  21. Game Over by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe if you read this cartoon you'll understand my previous post a bit better. And maybe you should have a think about who Brin and Gates are. Thanks for proving my original point so well. This thread is one for the wall.

    1. Re:Game Over by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      Heres one for you pal:

      http://professionalsuperhero.c...

      Who's Brin and Gates? Well since you apparently can't use Wikipedia Brin studied comp sci and maths.

      Gates spent most of his formative years coding and devising algorithms.

      "This thread is one for the wall."

      If thats the idiot A/C wall then yeah, you're right up there with the best my friend. Its rather tell you posted entirely as A/C so no one can look up your moronic drivel in years to come.

  22. Re:The real architecture is chaotic too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here on campus we have a building the architect designed such that, to get to any particular room (the building is like three separate buildings with ramps and skyways and basements), you'll need to talk to three different people. It was to facilitate community. We call it the Death Star and it indeed would be much more navigable with a grappling hook and light saber.