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Lawsuit Over Two-Word Tweet Moves Forward

Posted by Soulskill on from the culmination-of-our-civilization dept.

An anonymous reader writes: A defamation suit filed by a former Minnesota high school student has gotten approval from a federal judge to proceed. The suit was filed in response to a suspension issued by the school after Reid Sagehorn published a two-word comment on Twitter. In 2014, there existed a Twitter ostensibly about confessions from students at Sagehorn's high school. That account asked if Sagehorn had made out with a particular female teacher, and Sagehorn jokingly replied, "Actually yes." Not long after, he was suspended for five days, and that suspension was later extended to the rest of the month. The school administration convinced his parents to withdraw him from the school and send him to a different one. The town's police chief even spoke about it to the media, saying the comment was likely a felony. Sagehorn filed the lawsuit seeking damages and an expungement of the disciplinary actions.

29 of 220 comments (clear)

  1. Headline is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Focusing on the idea that this lawsuit is about a "two word tweet" is ridiculous and dishonest. This lawsuit is about accusations of impropriety by a teacher (and whether it's okay to blithely accuse a teacher of something even if you think you're joking). The "two word tweet" focus is attempting to draw ridicule to the case before making the facts clear, which is somewhere between intensely stupid and intentionally misleading.

    Also, the meaning of the word "actually" in this context is the same as "literally", meaning that the tweet was not a joke no matter what the kid tweeting intended. Of course, people almost never spend half a second's thought on the things they tweet, so I guess it's not surprising.

    1. Re:Headline is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Flip the genders involved and you'll get a hundred reasons why it's not right. Fact is that the student is still under age and the teacher is suppose to be there to teach, not make out with the kids.

      If the two have a thing for each other that's strong enough to break this barrier of common sense, then the two should be willing to wait a couple of years for the student to graduate before persuing a serious relationship. (And I say a couple of years because if they're young enough to be 3+ years from graduation there's just no excuse for the teacher to be trying to get involved with the -child-.

    2. Re:Headline is stupid by zieroh · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, actually you're dead wrong. The lawsuit is about the suspension that resulted from the two-word tweet. It wasn't filed by the teacher, it wasn't filed by the school. It was filed by the student.

      Furthermore, the police chief's statement that this amounted to a felony is pure BS. At worst, it would be defamation, but that's not what this lawsuit is about.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    3. Re:Headline is stupid by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Insightful

      First, there's an issue of the age of the people involved, which can lead to statutory rape charges even if both parties clearly consented. The article doesn't list the age of the person at the time he made the comment, but this article indicates that he was 17 at the time. Even failing that, relationships between two people where one is in a position of authority relative to the other are still messy as far as sexual harassment suits go and would be enough to get a teacher fired.

      Also, you would care if you were the person about whom these rumors were being spread as that kind of allegation can be career ending on its own. The administration clearly went overboard, but there's a clear difference between insinuating that someone is having sexual relations with their students and jokes about a person being a closeted Jets fan.

      It's hardly surprising when kids in high school act immature. That's to be expected, but the administration taking such a disproportionate reaction to something, which is better sorted out with a simple discussion about the seriousness of making such claims and perhaps an apology, is rather disappointing.

    4. Re:Headline is stupid by skam240 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Also, the meaning of the word "actually" in this context is the same as "literally", meaning that the tweet was not a joke no matter what the kid tweeting intended.

      So it's not a joke if someone implies that what they're saying is true? Do you even know what a joke is?

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    5. Re:Headline is stupid by konohitowa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nonsense, it absolutely was a felony. If you don't understand why then please go away.

      Nonsense, it absolutely wasn't a felony. If you don't understand why then please go away.

      Cool. I'm going to have to remember that approach. This whole "debating" thing is way easier than I thought. I had assumed you had to support your statements with facts - reasoning - logic. When do we transition to the uh-huh/nun-uh phase?

    6. Re:Headline is stupid by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You still haven't gotten to the part where it's an actual crime.

      Some idealized notion of crime and punishment that only exists in your head does not count.

      What is the crime?

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    7. Re:Headline is stupid by blue+trane · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So we should prosecute jokes as lies now? And there's a new rule: if you include "actually" in your joke, then it can't be a joke?

      Fuck the politically correct grammar nazi police. Fuck em if they can't take a joke. Joke 'em if they can't take a fuck. Fuck that teacher, he's way too thin-skinned and is probably guilty as fuck that's why he's overreacting so strongly.

    8. Re:Headline is stupid by zieroh · · Score: 2

      It was a false claim that the teacher had committed a sex offense. Such a claim would be enough to prevent the teacher from getting another teaching job.

      That's still not a felony.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    9. Re:Headline is stupid by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 2

      So we should prosecute jokes as lies now? And there's a new rule: if you include "actually" in your joke, then it can't be a joke?

      Granted, it's been a very long time since I was in high-school, but as far as I know there's still a big damn difference between being suspended and being charged with a crime, let along being prosecuted for one.

      You can be suspended in some high-schools for violating the dress code. It doesn't make it a crime, but it's also permissible (even if you or I don't agree with it). As I child/minor you have considerably less rights than an adult.

      I can't say I'm familiar with the story, or that I even RTFA. But it sounds like this kid did something he really shouldn't have, to begin with. Then the adults over reacted and it escalated into a whole lot of fucking stupid from there.

      If nothing else, I hope he learns that making defamatory statements as an adult can get you sued for libel.

      Fuck the politically correct grammar nazi police. Fuck em if they can't take a joke. Joke 'em if they can't take a fuck.

      Well put.

      Fuck that teacher, he's way too thin-skinned and is probably guilty as fuck that's why he's overreacting so strongly.

      I surmised from TFS that the student was male, and assumed the teacher was female. But I could be completely wrong. Even so, making false claims could cost this teacher their career. So if it's not true, then I doubt the teacher is being too thin skinned. Administration may be though.

    10. Re:Headline is stupid by Trepidity · · Score: 2

      And specifically in Minnesota, the state's criminal libel statute was recently struck down. Previously, certain kinds of libel in MN were criminal rather than only civil offenses, though still misdemeanors, not felonies.

      --
      10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
    11. Re:Headline is stupid by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Informative

      No they don't. They don't even come from the same language.

      See here and here for their respective etymologies.

    12. Re: Headline is stupid by alvinrod · · Score: 2

      Only because the response from the school was wholly inappropriate. Imagine if I borrowed your lawnmower and left it outside so it rusted it a bit and you shoot me in response. Just because I did something wrong doesn't mean that your response is reasonable or lawful.

      If they had just given him a lecture and explained why his behavior was inappropriate and asked him to apologize to the teacher that would have been sufficient, but the standard school administrator response these days seems to one of not only throwing common sense out along with the baby and the bathwater, but also hitting the baby with an ax on its way out the window.

    13. Re:Headline is stupid by dunkindave · · Score: 2

      It's not a false claim, it's a joke. Laugh. Relax.

      So someone takes a swing at me and I say WTF? and they say it was just a joke, then swing again and say it is still a joke. I can still hit him and call it self defense, joke or not, and he would deserve it. People will often call their bad acts a joke after the fact to avoid responsibility. It's like in this video where a guy tries to steal a purse, then laughs as if a prank, then tries to steal it again (only to get beat by the bus driver).

      Did the student mean for his tweet to be a joke when he did it? I don't know, but based on what little I have read, which I admit isn't enough to ACTUALLY know the truth, it at least seems it wasn't and he is now in delf-defense mode.

    14. Re:Headline is stupid by Technician · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's not any crime if it is true. Slander only happens when the statement is false. Has an investigation been completed? or is this a pre-emptive strike against the student to suppress a possible truth?

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    15. Re:Headline is stupid by reve_etrange · · Score: 2

      there's still a big damn difference between being suspended and being charged with a crime

      Of course, but right in TFS the police chief of that town is quoted as making the (legally ignorant and unamerican) claim that the tweet was a felony, and thus implicitly threatening prosecution.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    16. Re:Headline is stupid by Dahamma · · Score: 2

      And even in that case, with slander you have to prove the point of the comment was to defame, not to satirize or make a joke.

      Given that the forum was Twitter and the comment was a trite, two word reply to a silly topic, proving the intent was to spread a lie about someone instead of make fun of them (or make fun of the question) would be pretty difficult unless the author of the comment admitted it.

  2. Police chief should be fired by damicatz · · Score: 4, Informative

    As should the entire school district.

    Defamation is never a felony. In a handful of states, it *might* be a misdemeanor under very specific circumstances.

    In the US, in order to win a defamation case, with the exception of defamation per se (allegations of unchastity, allegations of a loathsome disease, allegations of a crime of moral turpitude, allegations injurious to trade, profession, or business), one has to prove actual damages. Even under the most strict of interpretations, the comment that Reid Sagehorn made could not be construed as defamation.

    1. Re:Police chief should be fired by Ultra64 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Are you retarded?

      He never said anything about what he thought should be legal or illegal.

      He simply stated the law as it currently is.

    2. Re:Police chief should be fired by westlake · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the US, in order to win a defamation case, with the exception of defamation per se (allegations of unchastity, allegations of a loathsome disease, allegations of a crime of moral turpitude, allegations injurious to trade, profession, or business), one has to prove actual damages. Even under the most strict of interpretations, the comment that Reid Sagehorn made could not be construed as defamation.

      Expand the tweet to say "Well, yes, I did have sex with my high school teacher."

      Tell me why this isn't defamation per se. There is nothing in the world he could possibly have said that was more likely to destroy the teacher's career and reputation.

      ---- and, no, it isn't enough to claim afterwards that it was all in fun.

    3. Re:Police chief should be fired by Fnord666 · · Score: 2

      The local prosecuting attorney later confirmed that Sagehorn had committed no crime and the police chief apologized. Sagehorn, for his part, also said he had written an apology to the teacher in question: "I never meant to hurt anybody."

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
  3. The death of common sense by Crashmarik · · Score: 2

    Can't imagine how any with a brain in their head could let this go so far. Simply having the student apologize and take a little detention should have been more than enough.

    1. Re:The death of common sense by Loki_1929 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Having the student issue a written apology to the teacher and having him post a simple "obviously this was a joke" tweet seems like it should have handled the situation quite well and made it a learning experience for the student. Engaging the parents early would help ensure it's taken seriously and reinforced at home. No damage done, no lawsuits, no absurdly ignorant police chiefs.

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    2. Re: The death of common sense by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Interesting
      He knowingly falsely accused a teacher of having sex with a minor. Tweets live forever. A suspension is more than appropriate, as is transfer to another school so the victim (the teacher) doesn't have to run into him at her job

      If the school hadn't taken this action they would have been liable for the unhealthy work environment for not removing someone who has basically admitted to the school that he sexually harassed her.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    3. Re: The death of common sense by Entrope · · Score: 2

      Does "make out with" mean sexual intercourse where you come from? I understand it to mean kissing and perhaps groping. Still not something you should falsely accuse a teacher of doing with a minor, but kissing is not as serious a violation as full on intercourse.

  4. Re:Dickheads by Goose+In+Orbit · · Score: 2

    "Is Sagehorn a total ****?"

    Actually, yes.

  5. Disgusting. by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    1 the chief of police needs to be fired for being a dimwit.
    2 the school needs to focus on education and not being fuck-knobs.
    3 everyone involved needs to get a life.

    It is two words from a juvenile that were inappropriate, The kid is far too immature to know anything about legality of statements. Honestly it is the adults and so called "leaders" of the community are so full of themselves and controlling others that they all need to be forced to sit in a corner for a few days to think about how they are acting.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  6. Actually... by Andy+Smith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If he did make out with the teacher then I'm on his side because he should be free to tell the truth. If he didn't make out with the teacher then I'm on everyone else's side because he lied in a way that could ruin her career.

  7. Just a boast by a teenage kid. Nothing to see here by lucien86 · · Score: 2

    Just a boast by a teenage kid... Someone needs to question the basic intelligence of these people over-reacting so hugely in this way... Maybe if they cant react more sensibly school personnel should simply be banned completely from reading their pupils tweets..

    --
    Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..