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The Network Is Hostile

An anonymous reader writes: Following this weekend's news that AT&T was as friendly with the NSA as we've suspected all along, cryptographer Matthew Green takes a step back to look at the broad lessons we've learned from the NSA leaks. He puts it simply: the network is hostile — and we really understand that now. "My take from the NSA revelations is that even though this point was 'obvious' and well-known, we've always felt it more intellectually than in our hearts. Even knowing the worst was possible, we still chose to believe that direct peering connections and leased lines from reputable providers like AT&T would make us safe. If nothing else, the NSA leaks have convincingly refuted this assumption." Green also points out that the limitations on law enforcement's data collection are technical in nature — their appetite for surveillance would be even larger if they had the means to manage it. "...it's significant that someday a large portion of the world's traffic will flow through networks controlled by governments that are, at least to some extent, hostile to the core values of Western democracies."

9 of 124 comments (clear)

  1. Hostile governments... by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 5, Informative

    "...it's significant that someday a large portion of the world's traffic will flow through networks controlled by governments that are, at least to some extent, hostile to the core values of Western democracies."

    And some of those will be the governments of Western democracies. That's the truly maddening part.

    1. Re:Hostile governments... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "free" health care for just one example

      Yes. And "free" fire prevention, and "free" roads, and a "free" military, and "free" education.

      Gosh, we'd all be SO much better without this "free" stuff.

      Healthcare for everyone: YOU may want your fellow citizens to have access to healthcare based upon individual levels of wealth, but me, I'd just as soon the person walking down the street (a) doesn't have their effectiveness at their job reduced by disease or injury any more than is absolutely necessary, (b) is as little likely as possible to be passing along some communicable disease, (c) is available for work as much as possible. Because that's best for everyone. Including your selfish person. So I want them to have access to healthcare based upon the single issue of need.

      The current welfare system for the insurance companies isn't optimum by any means. But it's a damn sight better than what we had before.

  2. Someday? by argStyopa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "..someday a large portion of the world's traffic will flow through networks controlled by governments that are, at least to some extent, hostile to the core values of Western democracies.."

    You mean, like the US government? /That was way too easy.

    I'm not one of the many self-loathing Americans, but it's pretty irrefutable that the US government is "at least to some extent" hostile to the core Western, humanist values that are even laid out in its own Constitution.

    --
    -Styopa
  3. Enough with the "democracy=freedom" tripe by MikeRT · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "...it's significant that someday a large portion of the world's traffic will flow through networks controlled by governments that are, at least to some extent, hostile to the core values of Western democracies."

    Some of the very worst offenders on surveillance are "democracies." It's time for us to stop living cliche to cliche and start realizing that things like personal freedom are correlated with, not caused by, particular structural forms of government. Ask a Jew in 1940 if they missed the Kaiser, who was a strong monarch, not a figurehead. Ask the average Russian pleb under Stalin if they'd not have given a small body part to be back under the Tsar.

    Some of the worst governments in the modern age were ones built on being "for the people." Let's start judging governments based on what they do, not their structure.

    1. Re:Enough with the "democracy=freedom" tripe by Daetrin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Some of the worst governments in the modern age were ones built on being "for the people." Let's start judging governments based on what they do, not their structure.

      "Democracy is the worst form of government, except all those others that have been tried from time to time."

      You're cherry-picking two cases of worst-case scenarios, one of which wasn't even really a democracy. (Stalin was appointed to power long before there were any "democratic" elections.) There have been plenty of monarchies that have done things just as bad.

      That said, democracy is "least bad" when:

      1: Everyone can vote
      2: Everyone is educated
      3: Most people _do_ vote
      4: People feel like their vote actually matters
      5: The government is responsive to the will of the voters

      The sum combination of all those is that it is impossible to have a (successful) revolution (other than in the sense of voting out the current party) because in order to have enough people to violently overthrow the government, you'd already have enough people to vote someone else in.

      Unfortunately many modern democracies screw up one or more of those. The US is screwing up almost all of them:

      1: There continue to be many attempts to disenfranchise voters in many states through various means. Statistically the number of attempts at voter fraud are non-existent compared to the number of people whose legal votes are denied, but it makes better show to pretend otherwise.

      2: The US tends to fail on both the systemic and systematic levels. As a society we're not providing enough support for the education system, and when it comes to elections allow ourselves to fall prey to the spectacle of network news soundbites and commercial advertising too easily, rather than really educating ourselves about the people and issues involved.

      3: The US passes this one. Barely. On years with presidential elections. But barely passing on a technicality but only some of the time is rather damning with faint praise.

      4 & 5: These two are rather tied up together, and contribute greatly to the issues with #3. A first past the goalposts election system almost inevitable leads to a two party system, in which the voters grudgingly and unenthusiastically vote for the (perceived) lesser of two evils and in which the winner feels only a vague sense of responsibility to those who elected them. (If you piss off your constituents what are they going to do? Vote for the greater evil instead of the lesser one? Not likely!)

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      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    2. Re:Enough with the "democracy=freedom" tripe by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 4, Informative
      The US has officially been proven to be an oligarchy as described here:

      http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

      The actual paper if here:

      http://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf

  4. Of course it is by i.r.id10t · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you are truly paranoid about security - or these days, at least overly aware of security issues - any network where you are not 100% in control of everything from source to destination and all spots in between should be considered as possibly hostile.

    That said, how many people/groups/organizations/businesses really care about this?

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
  5. Not cherry-picking by MikeRT · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You're cherry-picking two cases of worst-case scenarios, one of which wasn't even really a democracy.

    The Soviet vs. Imperial Russia example was to show that the general argument applies across all forms of government.

    1: There continue to be many attempts to disenfranchise voters in many states through various means. Statistically the number of attempts at voter fraud are non-existent compared to the number of people whose legal votes are denied, but it makes better show to pretend otherwise.

    Most of those efforts are simply symptoms of our use of districts. A simple shift to a proportional representation system chosen across the entire polity would eliminate the most pernicious form which is gerrymandering.

    In actuality, most of what is called efforts to disenfranchise are actually efforts to add integrity to the system such as voter ID laws. The idea that you should be allowed to wield any political power without being positively identified as a citizen eligible to wield it is utterly insane, but par for the course for certain types of ideologues (don't know if that applies to you personally)

    2: The US tends to fail on both the systemic and systematic levels. As a society we're not providing enough support for the education system, and when it comes to elections allow ourselves to fall prey to the spectacle of network news soundbites and commercial advertising too easily, rather than really educating ourselves about the people and issues involved.

    Funding is certainly not where we're failing. Many of the worst districts are funded with the same devil-may-care attitude toward how much we're spending that is used on the military at the national level. The problem is that our educational system is structurally flawed in ways that are politically impossible to fix. It's a problem of culture and political will to address the culture.

    4 & 5: These two are rather tied up together, and contribute greatly to the issues with #3. A first past the goalposts election system almost inevitable leads to a two party system, in which the voters grudgingly and unenthusiastically vote for the (perceived) lesser of two evils and in which the winner feels only a vague sense of responsibility to those who elected them. (If you piss off your constituents what are they going to do? Vote for the greater evil instead of the lesser one? Not likely!)

    It also doesn't help the situation that politicians know that the majority of voters are low-information voters. Point #1 greatly exacerbates that. The easiest way for politicians to destroy the influence of the more informed voters is to drown them in a sea of low-information voters who are the sort of people that are congenitally more interested in their own immediate creature needs than the public weal.

    Like it or not, most low information voters are not that way because there's an informed citizen waiting for an excuse to burst forth from them. They are simple people who have simple needs and expectations. A lot of them are even smart people. Some of the dumbest arguments I've had on politics were with badly informed people with high IQs.

    Expanding to a more democratic system provides a great deal of cover for the political class because democracy feels like we have power, feels like "we chose this." If we had a monarchy like Imperial Germany, the King would have feared a violent revolution over some of the scandals that have come out in the last 20 years because the public couldn't just say "we'll vote the King out." Consequently, I think a less democratic system would have likely chosen a more moderate and accountable course of action because the lack of an illusion of control would have channeled the public outrage directly at them.

  6. Just to set TFA straight by some+old+guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "...it's significant that today a large portion of the world's traffic flows through networks controlled by governments that are, at least to some extent, hostile to the core values of Western democracies."

    We call that hostile government the United States of America.

    --
    Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.