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Italian City To Dump OpenOffice For Microsoft After Four Years

An anonymous reader writes: Between 2011 and 2014, the municipality of Pesaro, Italy, trained up its 500 employees to use OpenOffice. However, last year the organization decided to switch back to Microsoft and use its cloud productivity suite Office 365. According to a report from Netics Observatory (Google translation of Italian original), the city administration will be able to save up to 80% of the software's total cost of ownership by going back. The savings are largely due to the significant and unexpected deployment costs. In particular, having to repaginate and tweak a number of documents due to a lack of compatibility between the proprietary and the open source systems translated into a considerable waste of time and productivity. The management estimates that every day roughly 300 employees had to spend up to 15 minutes each sorting out such issues.

21 of 316 comments (clear)

  1. Sounds like an ad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For some product

    1. Re:Sounds like an ad by ashshy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yup. Original source: news.microsoft.com

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    2. Re:Sounds like an ad by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft press release or not, it's something that's happening.

    3. Re:Sounds like an ad by thaylin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It matters a lot. For example what is the price that MS gave on office for that city, did they give it to them for free now to do so? Then that would matter greatly.

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    4. Re:Sounds like an ad by SJHillman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The source of news is not irrelevant. Any source can be biased and can present, twist or omit facts that can greatly change the substance of the news.

    5. Re: Sounds like an ad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Who the hell uses spreadsheets for ticket management..? Anyone who has the knowledge to do that should habe the knowledge why it's an awful idea.

    6. Re: Sounds like an ad by ender- · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It helps if you actually read the comment [Crazy idea on Slashdot I know]. They weren't using Excel for ticketing. They were using Excel to create a dashboard displaying information and metrics about tickets in their actual ticketing system, which while it may not be the optimal way to do that, doesn't strike me as that unreasonable.

    7. Re: Sounds like an ad by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Which is fine, but if you're going to use such an edge case to make the claim that one suite of software is superior to the other, you're on thin ice.

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    8. Re:Sounds like an ad by hairyfeet · · Score: 1, Insightful

      They probably didn't have to pay them anything, its just common sense.

      1.-You use tool Y, you write applications in tool Y, save important work in tool Y, and are easily able to find workers that are skilled in tool Y. 2.- You then switch to tool X to "save money" but like most bean counters they only look at the initial cost of X and never calculate the transition costs that switching to Y will cost the company, namely that it will 3.- cost money to have somebody rewrite all those applications (because as we have seen here numerous times LO and MSO are "compatible" only at the most superficial level, try loading a complex Excel sheet with VBA or a huge document with annotations, headers, footers,etc into LO and see how little it resembles the original, likewise with LO to MSO), 4.- you've tied a boat anchor to your workers as all their experience in Y is worth nothing so they may as well be HS kids off the street, so when you figure in the cost of the above? You end up with losing money by switching to the "free" product.

      This is why I don't carry Linux at the shop and will in fact strip a perfectly running machine rather than putting Linux on it, because the Linux mythical man month "let the kernel devs handle it" mess of a driver subsystem means that if my customer owns the PC just 3 years thanks to drivers breaking on forced upgrades (which are required for security patches) the system would cost them more than if I had simply installed Windows as the $35 an hour I charge to fix the system when the drivers break makes Linux more expensive.

      And no Linux advocates the average user does NOT want to keep a second system around (usually Windows) to Google for fixes to the first, play "hunt the forum for a solution" nor spend hours in the 1970s GUI known as Bash trying to work around the fact that Linux doesn't have simple tools that allow rollback of drivers nor a system restore, both of which Windows has had since 2000. All they want is a system that will work for the lifetime of the hardware and as my little challenge has shown conclusively while you can take every version of Windows from 2K up from RTM to currently without the drivers breaking sadly the same is not true of Linux.

      Does this make LO or Linux bad tools? Not if used correctly, such as giving LO to home users that do not require compatibility nor are using complex layout wrt LO or using Linux in a server role which the vast majority of development in Linux is dedicated to, its only when you try to shoehorn the tool into a role that its ill equipped to handle that you end up with problems like in TFA.

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    9. Re: Sounds like an ad by Feral+Nerd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Which is fine, but if you're going to use such an edge case to make the claim that one suite of software is superior to the other, you're on thin ice.

      If that one edge case was his entire case against Liber Office you'd have a point, however he just cited it as a single example. I expect that when it comes to features in spreadsheet apps it's a bit like search engines. The searches that make or break a search engines is not the ability to return hits for not common searches like "america's got talent winners" it's being able to return results for a large set of rare and specific searches like: "ip67 rated bulkhead mounted sma connectors" or "new old stock 1965 mustang steering box". If you talk to people who use Excel extensively to analyze data you'll quickly find that the reason they find LibreOffice lacking is not because Libreoffice is lacking basic features, it is because the Libre Spreadsheet app is unable to perform a for a wide collection of really specific 'edge' tasks that Excel can either do out of the box or for which there exist well established and professionally maintained third party Excel expansion packages. All of that is simply down to Excel having been around longer and having many more users doing a wider variety of specialised tasks that Libreoffice Calc has had and for Libreoffice Calc that boils down to the fact that gaining market share will be a long and tedious up hill struggle.

    10. Re:Sounds like an ad by dimeglio · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I expect there will be a number of such switcharoos from open source to closed source then back again. It all depends who is the CIO and how Microsoft has influenced their lives.

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  2. Start open from the beginning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That is a message for new organizations to start with open standards from day 1. Otherwise you will get so dependent on proprietary standards that moving out of them may never be worth again.

    1. Re:Start open from the beginning by Spazmania · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Day 1 is long past. You have to deal with files from other folks outside the organization. Conversion back and forth between Microsoft and Open Office is glitchy and unfortunately everybody you deal with has a word, excel or powerpoint file to give you.

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  3. Contrary to my experiences by LichtSpektren · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am an editor of sorts. My coworkers all use MSWord 2010, and the formatting gets thrashed every time they pass a document around. Inevitably I am called to fix it, and do so by opening it in LibreOffice.

    Furthermore, I would argue that retraining everybody to Microsoft's cloud docs itself constitutes "a considerable waste of time and productivity", but I guess whoever in Pesaro's IT department that got under-the-table money disagrees.

    1. Re:Contrary to my experiences by minstrelmike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And it seems like a press release because there is actually a 3rd enterprise option: Google Docs. I mean, if you're going to investigate solutions, actually look around.

    2. Re:Contrary to my experiences by Camembert · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Mmmh as a non American city I would not want my data to be stored on American servers.

  4. Shocking: a hybrid solution was expensive by orasio · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From TFA:

    "We encountered several hurdles and dysfunctions around the use of specific features," Bruscoli says in the report. "What's more, due to the impossibility of replacing Access and partly Excel (various macros used on tens of files), we decided we had to keep a hybrid solution, using the two systems at the same time. This mix has been devastating," he adds.

    They didn't replace MSOffice in the first place, they had a hybrid solution, which was costly, due to compatibility issues. They should have been able to know that beforehand. msoffice doesn't play well with others, it doesn't even implement any standard format. If you absolutely need to use msoffice in some spots, you should forget about interoperating, and just use msoffice everywhere.

    1. Re:Shocking: a hybrid solution was expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This story should have been:

      Vendor lock-in is real, and it's very hard to shake off.

  5. The Prescience of John Locke by Sloppy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In particular, having to repaginate and tweak a number of documents due to a lack of compatibility between the proprietary and the open source systems translated into a considerable waste of time and productivity. The management estimates that every day roughly 300 employees had to spend up to 15 minutes each sorting out such issues.

    This is unsurprising. As you may recall, in his "3rd Treatise on Government," John Locke wrote:

    Reader, thou has endured my discourse on how government shalle answer to the people, and I praise three for thy patience. Let us now broach the particulars of the responsibilities of government.

    Chief among these, is pagination.

    Take the state of significant size, Italy, as one example. While I can only hope that some day the grace of God shalle grant us sufficient meanes for pagination to no longer be one of man's undying labors, today in 1694 Italy has sixteen thousand workers who must tirelessly check page numbers. Yet our author can envision a future where a mere three hundred workers, paid from public coffers, have daily duties requiring precise pagination.

    If their tech is correctly compatible with their legacy uber-shitty database and proprietary spreadsheet, which are apparently not capable of writing standard-format files, this will take mere seconds. On the other hand, if their software cannot make sense of the undocumented inputs, our author can imagine this taking up to fifteen minutes per day. Yet whichever the case, at least three hundred of them will be relying on pagination every day. Even in the ultimate society with fully responsible government, it is the law of nature that we shall never go back to scrolls where nobody gives a fuck about page numbers.

    How he foresaw this, I cannot imagine. But you have to admit, he was right on target. Most people who are familiar with late 20th century technology would never even think of this, since in day-to-life you rarely care about pagination, or especially if your page breaks match someone else's -- indeed you probably only rarely think in terms of "pages" at all. Yet Locke had the distant objectivity, in order to see that pagination would some day return to being an important topic, worthy of peoples' -- nay, The People's -- attention.

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  6. protection money from the mafia by nazsco · · Score: 3, Insightful

    even the press release cannot mention a single good reason for it except "we have been conned in the past and now must pay the price... for pagination!"

  7. Little incompatibilities are a big concern by ErichTheRed · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've been doing end user stuff for years, and Microsoft Office is a de facto standard. It's not because it's the absolute best product out there, but because compatibility needs to be maintained. Most -simple- documents and spreadsheets will open in one or the other. The problem comes when you get documents created with a Word template that someone got very creative with while building it. This happens a lot in engineering organizations, places that have document control/management systems, and yes, governments. Word has never had the easiest-to-decode formatting methods; that crown still goes to WordPerfect for the closed source world, and some law firms still use it today. Little stuff like page breaks, font kerning, and special positioning that don't matter in a simple document but matter a lot in a formal contract are sometimes very hard to find and fix in Word, for example.

    The reality is that even though the format sucks, everyone is used to it and works around the quirks. Is it right? No, but it happens. No one outside of scientific publication is going to advocate for regular users to write their documents in TeX for example, even though that's the perfect example of a completely open, known formatting standard.

    I think open source office suites are fine as long as you don't have crazy formatting needs and you don't have to share complex documents with too many Microsoft Office users. Otherwise, like the article says, users will waste time tweaking little things in their documents instead of doing productive work. If you're a small shop that has standardized on Linux, that's fine. One of the lifeblood things the company I work for does is respond to RFPs from governments. The standard response usually needs to be added to their crazily-formatted Word docs and Excel spreadsheets, and $deity help you if your use of LibreOffice is even thought of as the reason that a bid is rejected.